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RE: German 6th Army Campaign

 
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RE: German 6th Army Campaign - 1/5/2010 5:58:24 PM   
springer

 

Posts: 414
Joined: 5/14/2009
Status: offline 		Rufus,

You are right about the next set of turns in my playing of the Belgium scenario: it is far from over at the end of turn 3. There are still substantial forces ahead and my casualty rate would've been similar to the one you showed.

We sent our previous propaganda minister to work as the information reporter for the Slavic branch of "Voice of Germanica" radio (to demoralize the Bolsheviks before the invasion).

A more accurate assessment is that the Belgian/French resistance is more disorganized, but care is needed because the Allied forces can still bite. (Most of the scenario's casualties lie in the next few moves).
But if the focus stays on taking Brussels, it can fall by turn 7 or 8 (which racks up the extra PP).

By the way Rufus, you reorganization looks like interesting strategy. As you move on to the next scenarios, I'd like to hear how successful your strategy of minimizing scout and aircraft casualties remains.

Your post raises another fascinating aspect of the campaign design: The "little" decisions, like where to fight the battles and where to bypass, can wind up having big long-term implications.

For example, when is it worthwhile to take Maastricht? I chose to take it because the Belgian I corps was easy pickings. For the cost of about 20-30 infantry, I could give IX corp a chance to pick up some experience through pocket clean up. If the game went to turn 10, Maastricht would earn 16 PP, which is the cost of an fresh infantry regiment. This regiment would more than replace the losses of taking Maasricht and adds some more specialized units as well.

However, if I were facing the disposition of forces that Rufus had in front of Maastricht, I'd probably bypass it and perhaps send units and artillery in to do a slow, piecemeal reduction of the position (to keep casualties low). A full-scale assault would not be worth the cost.

That's part of the fun: each decision about whether to engage in battle or just bypass a unit has to be a thought-out trade off between casualty rate, experience gain and replacement potential. The ultimate goal is to win each scenario efficiently so that the sixth army has a chance of survival when it arrives in Stalingrad.




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by springer -- 1/5/2010 9:11:37 PM >

(in reply to RufusTFirefly)
Post #: 31
RE: German 6th Army Campaign - 1/5/2010 6:15:08 PM   
springer

 

Posts: 414
Joined: 5/14/2009
Status: offline 		I hope you plan to keep the action reports coming in, Rufus.
Doesn't the second scenario give you a deep appreciation for military competence of Hermann Goering?

< Message edited by springer -- 1/6/2010 3:27:33 AM >

(in reply to RufusTFirefly)
Post #: 32
RE: German 6th Army Campaign - 1/6/2010 11:27:44 AM   
RufusTFirefly

 

Posts: 1048
Joined: 8/29/2008
From: Germany
Status: offline 		Hi Springer,

you are right to focus on the aspect of getting PP by capuring Maastricht and reinforce or deploy units.

Getting experience is no problem. It doesnt matter if you eliminate the defenders of Maastricht sooner or later. And the armoured spearheads will have to fight even if they manage to pass enemy lines. They got for example the enemy´s artillery as target.

As I wrote I have lost the seond scenario in a first attapt. My attack was to slow. But I should mention as well that I deployed no units after finishing the first sceanario and did not use any PP for buying units. Therefore, just a question: Is there a card for buying new units at the beginning of each scenario? In case that not and I dont use the card for buying reinforcements, can I use this option in the following scenario?


< Message edited by RufusTFirefly -- 1/6/2010 5:34:53 PM >

(in reply to springer)
Post #: 33
RE: German 6th Army Campaign - 1/6/2010 6:19:58 PM   
springer

 

Posts: 414
Joined: 5/14/2009
Status: offline 		Tweber can correct me on this if I get it wrong, but there is no chance of redeployment at the beginning of each scenario.

I see this as one of the challenges of the game. My corps structure starts out all jumbled up and I have to sort it out while still maintaining forward momentum, which must always remain the priority.

(In some scenarios, the AI is so aggressive that I have to engage them immediately with the nearest units at hand, and never have a chance to sort out the command structure properly.)

With respect to replacements, they can be bought with the card on the first turn of each scenario only. And yes, you have the option to buy on the first turn of every scenario. After the first turn, the option disappears for the remainder of that particular scenario.

My own preference was to not purchase the replacements at the beginning of the scenario. I had no problem going forward with units that are understrength in infantry (i.e., around 10 infantry per regiment) because (and I'm probably only saying what most AT vets already knew long before I learned it) understrength units are still incredibly valuable. You only need one decent unit to do the heavy lifting during an attack, but the understrength units are still quite valuable for creating those low-cost concentric attacks that are the hallmark of AT tactics. Understrength units are particularly useful if their artillery support is highly experienced and participation in these concentric attacks will get their experience up to 80 XP plus in no time.

I didn't buy units because I wanted to build up my PP for the refit after the campaign (then I can choose between buying units or buying upgrades.)

I think my strategy might have been mistaken. Buying units on the first turn is smarter and cheaper than waiting for the refit. The reason is that I think the cost of troops is cheaper than during the refit. I think that in scenario 2, you pay 60 PP for two infantry regiments, an armor regiment, and an artillery regiment. During the refit, this would cost 88 PP. So, if you buy at the beginning of the scenario, the armor regiment cost only 30 PP (instead of 34 during the refit) and the artillery regiment is free. (I can imagine Fritz Todt with an American accent: "Buy three regiments now, and we'll throw in some artillery for free. This is a limited offer so don't wait") Also, purchasing units in a scenario gives them more time to build up valuable experience before the refit.

The the only potential limitations I see to buying at the beginning of the scenario is a loss in choice during the refit, the 60 PP wouldn't be available for upgrades and you can't tailor your reinforcements as carefully (e.g., during refit, you may want to buy 4 infantry regiments with the 60 PP instead of the reinforcement "combo platter" that is offered on the first turn of the scenario. Or, you might want to invest in more air power).

By the way in the '42 scenarios, it's probably worthwhile to buy replacements each time, since there is no '43 campaign or refit.

Though I'm jumping ahead, here's another question I'd like to see player's opinion on. What is the optimal refit strategy? I think the upgrade to Fighter II is an essential part of any AT strategy. Beyond that, I'm unsure. Is it better to focus on creating upgraded units or to expand the size of the army? For example, is it better to spend 120 PP turning Infantry I into Infantry II, or is it better to use the PP buying 8 infantry regiments or nearly 3 tank regiments?

< Message edited by springer -- 1/7/2010 5:15:30 AM >

(in reply to RufusTFirefly)
Post #: 34
RE: German 6th Army Campaign - 1/7/2010 5:24:23 PM   
tweber

 

Posts: 1411
Joined: 6/27/2007
Status: offline 		I typically upgrade based on the number of power points that gets a boost.  Air is somewhat scaled back in this campaign.  I usually upgrade basic infantry, heavy infantry, etc...

(in reply to springer)
Post #: 35
RE: German 6th Army Campaign - 2/13/2010 4:12:50 AM   
von altair


Posts: 316
Joined: 4/27/2004
Status: offline 		Very good job tweber! I am going to play that campaign through as soon as I have time.

_____________________________

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"Do you not know, my son, with how little wisdom the world is governed?"

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(in reply to tweber)
Post #: 36
RE: German 6th Army Campaign - 4/12/2010 7:45:25 PM   
Jeffrey H.


Posts: 3154
Joined: 4/13/2007
From: San Diego, Ca.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RufusTFirefly

Hi tweber,

have played second scenario very quickly and not thought much about tactics. Therefore lost it. End message says that Allies get 100 PP bonus for holding Brussels. Must be Dunkerque.



I found this same note after a game I was playing with Bombur. We were playing 2 player and I was able to hold him off Brussels and got the 100pp message. However when we started Dunkerque the Germans had no forces.


_____________________________

History began July 4th, 1776. Anything before that was a mistake.

Ron Swanson

(in reply to RufusTFirefly)
Post #: 37
RE: German 6th Army Campaign - 4/28/2010 3:36:15 AM   
springer

 

Posts: 414
Joined: 5/14/2009
Status: offline 		Jeffrey H.

I had the problem playing solitaire. I think you have to end the game with the card. If you take Brussels and end the turn without playing the victory check card, you may find yourself in trouble.

I do think this game is one of the outstanding AI vs. living opponent games. The solitaire balance is nice. I particularly like how well balanced the armor is. It is fragile and requires finesse and maneuver to be affective.

I think you and Bombur are bold for playing this out. Tweber suggested that it is good for H2H play. But, I would bet on the the allies exausting the Axis by the third scenario. Against a live opponent, as Allies, I'd go out of my way to pound the Axis Armor every time it sticks its nose out of the main force. If the armor is blunted, the Axis will be hard-pressed to maintain their blitzkrieg tactics.

How did the Belgium scenario go? What kind of shape were the Germans in when it ended? (We all know what happens to the Belgians....)


(in reply to Jeffrey H.)
Post #: 38
RE: German 6th Army Campaign - 4/28/2010 7:25:21 PM   
Jeffrey H.


Posts: 3154
Joined: 4/13/2007
From: San Diego, Ca.
Status: offline 		Yes, regarding the end of game card, the German player in our game was Bombur and he did mention that he forgot to play the card. He then tried a restart and played the card in the restart, it still failed to properly start up the next game in the series.

My strategy for Belgium was to cause maximum attrition. The Belgians are capable of dealing some serious blows in the beginning few turns. The best defensive position in the scenario is the initial one, so I immediately pushed all my forces into the Eastern line, and I do mean all, even the HQ's. The HQ's were in the end used as combat forces themselves and were able to cause some damage.

The scenario went very well for the Belgians. I noticed too late that an armored unit had arrived in Mons, not sure which turn it got there but I was able to use the units in that formation to block the final approaches into Brussels, which was by then completely unguarded. The Germans were not able to occupy Brussels in the alottoed time.

Unfortunately, the spririt of the game was sort of broken after the failure to extend the results to the next scenario and we dropped the game at this point.


_____________________________

History began July 4th, 1776. Anything before that was a mistake.

Ron Swanson

(in reply to springer)
Post #: 39
RE: German 6th Army Campaign - 5/1/2010 8:37:04 AM   
springer

 

Posts: 414
Joined: 5/14/2009
Status: offline 		It's a shame the game didn't work. It'd be fun to hear what would happen within the three scenarios.

I guess the campaign wasn't designed to go beyond 10 turns. It probably would just take the creation of a Belgian victory card. (Or the German's playing a defeat card) to get the game operational again.

I agree with your strategy. The big losses on the Germans will be had while the Belgians have enough mass on their main line to do major damage.

(in reply to Jeffrey H.)
Post #: 40
RE: German 6th Army Campaign - 5/1/2010 10:29:22 AM   
srndac

 

Posts: 95
Joined: 12/13/2007
Status: offline 		My friend and I have played the 6th Army Campaign - with me as the Jerry.
The first time we played, I got all the way to Paris before he stopped me - at which point the units didn't transfer over to the 1940/41 refit, and we couldn't continue.
Then I suggested we play Paris again, with him 'losing' - that is, letting me take the objectives. Naturally, he was 'weapons free' to do as much damage as he could. This time we got to the 1940/41 refit scenario, but the computer didn't transfer the units over to the Barbarossa at the end of it.

So, the moral of the story is: ... um ... well ... don't go H2H on this one ... ;-)

cheers!
srndac

(in reply to springer)
Post #: 41
RE: German 6th Army Campaign - 5/2/2010 1:49:11 PM   
tweber

 

Posts: 1411
Joined: 6/27/2007
Status: offline 		This scenario was not designed (or apparently works) as a 2 player scenario.  However, if anyone wants to pick this up, I would be happy to give them guidance on what they could do.

(in reply to srndac)
Post #: 42
RE: German 6th Army Campaign - 5/3/2010 8:59:08 PM   
Jeffrey H.


Posts: 3154
Joined: 4/13/2007
From: San Diego, Ca.
Status: offline 		Tempting. It is fun to play out H2H, even on the "losing side", since both players will eventually become both a winner and loser.


_____________________________

History began July 4th, 1776. Anything before that was a mistake.

Ron Swanson

(in reply to tweber)
Post #: 43
RE: German 6th Army Campaign - 5/6/2010 3:59:26 AM   
Jeffrey H.


Posts: 3154
Joined: 4/13/2007
From: San Diego, Ca.
Status: offline 		Ok Tom, I'll bite. Can you give me said guidance ?

_____________________________

History began July 4th, 1776. Anything before that was a mistake.

Ron Swanson

(in reply to tweber)
Post #: 44
RE: German 6th Army Campaign - 5/6/2010 8:28:45 PM   
82ndtrooper


Posts: 1083
Joined: 12/19/2008
From: tennessee
Status: offline 		I just downloaded the scenario and wonder if there is supposed to be a read-me file ?  I am unsure what order I should play the scenarios.

there is nothing that says start this one first.  and the top scenario is the 1940 refit scenario which I dont think should be the first one.

can anyone point me to the order the scenarios should be played or which to start first.


_____________________________

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82nd Airborne Division
Honorably Discharged Jul/80

(in reply to Jeffrey H.)
Post #: 45
RE: German 6th Army Campaign - 5/6/2010 11:58:30 PM   
springer

 

Posts: 414
Joined: 5/14/2009
Status: offline 		82nd trooper,

Play Belgium first. Everything automatically follows from that.

Here are my warnings:
1. Read the briefings! Sometimes the objectives are not completely clear so the briefing is key. Keep in mind that the briefings don't always show up in the beginning of the scenario so you have to go the "statistics" screen to read them.

2. Always play the victory card as soon as you take your objectives. If you don't play the card, the game won't continue regularly.

3. If you think you may have won a scenario, save the game before you go to the next turn. That way, if you have made a mistake, your hard-won gains don't go "poof". I'd also recommend saving the start turn of every scenario too. (That is, save immediately after the game engine dumps you into the new scenario correctly.)

The game is well worth these minor book keeping efforts.
If you do play it, please report back on how you did!


< Message edited by springer -- 5/6/2010 11:59:26 PM >

(in reply to 82ndtrooper)
Post #: 46
RE: German 6th Army Campaign - 5/7/2010 8:10:39 AM   
82ndtrooper


Posts: 1083
Joined: 12/19/2008
From: tennessee
Status: offline 		Thank you springer !

ill start playing it tomorrow


_____________________________

HHC 302nd Engineer Battalion
82nd Airborne Division
Honorably Discharged Jul/80

(in reply to springer)
Post #: 47
RE: German 6th Army Campaign - 7/25/2010 3:52:40 PM   
cveta


Posts: 341
Joined: 1/4/2010
From: Croatia
Status: offline 		realy nice game tweber. You did a great job with this one. And I appriciate the timeyou spend inmaking this. Thanks m8
Just finished 1st scenario and win in turn 7. Lost few fighters and a tank and 4 art units.

_____________________________

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(in reply to 82ndtrooper)
Post #: 48
RE: German 6th Army Campaign - 7/25/2010 4:06:01 PM   
srndac

 

Posts: 95
Joined: 12/13/2007
Status: offline 		hot damn! 7th turn!
AAR please!

(in reply to cveta)
Post #: 49
RE: German 6th Army Campaign - 4/25/2011 12:22:50 AM   
LJBurstyn

 

Posts: 626
Joined: 4/19/2011
Status: offline 		When I finished the Belgian scenario after capturing Brussels. I play the card and get points for completing the scenario before the end of the 10th turn. When I acknowledge the points I get a ERROR message instead of whatever it is suppose to do next. The error message is quite long and I don't remember what it says.

(in reply to srndac)
Post #: 50
RE: German 6th Army Campaign - 4/25/2011 10:01:37 AM   
Vic


Posts: 8262
Joined: 5/17/2004
Status: offline 		guys,

AT Gold is at fault here... the engine ran into an error trying to load the next scenario.

I am fixing this for patch v1.02... which will be released asap.

sorry for the inconvenience. and thanks very much for taking the time to report.

best,
Vic



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(in reply to LJBurstyn)
Post #: 51
RE: German 6th Army Campaign - 5/16/2011 11:31:35 PM   
rjh1971


Posts: 4919
Joined: 12/13/2005
From: Madrid, Spain
Status: offline 		With v2.03c whenever I press statistics button and afterwards the Supply, OOB or Total tabs I get the following error:

quote:

Consulte el final de este mensaje para obtener más detalles sobre cómo invocar a la depuración
Just-In-Time (JIT) en lugar de a este cuadro de diálogo.

************** Texto de la excepción **************
System.IndexOutOfRangeException: Índice fuera de los límites de la matriz.
en WindowsApplication1.StatsWindowClass.DoStuff()
en WindowsApplication1.StatsWindowClass.HandleMouseClick(Int32 x, Int32 y, Int32 b)
en WindowsApplication1.MessagePopUpScreenClass.HandleMouseClick(Int32 x, Int32 y, Int32 b)
en WindowsApplication1.Form1.Form1_Mousedown(Object sender, MouseEventArgs e)
en System.Windows.Forms.Control.OnMouseDown(MouseEventArgs e)
en System.Windows.Forms.Control.WmMouseDown(Message& m, MouseButtons button, Int32 clicks)
en System.Windows.Forms.Control.WndProc(Message& m)
en System.Windows.Forms.ScrollableControl.WndProc(Message& m)
en System.Windows.Forms.ContainerControl.WndProc(Message& m)
en System.Windows.Forms.Form.WndProc(Message& m)
en WindowsApplication1.ImmoveableForm.WndProc(Message& m)
en System.Windows.Forms.Control.ControlNativeWindow.OnMessage(Message& m)
en System.Windows.Forms.Control.ControlNativeWindow.WndProc(Message& m)
en System.Windows.Forms.NativeWindow.Callback(IntPtr hWnd, Int32 msg, IntPtr wparam, IntPtr lparam)


************** Ensamblados cargados **************
mscorlib
Versión del ensamblado: 2.0.0.0
Versión Win32: 2.0.50727.4959 (win7RTMGDR.050727-4900)
Código base: file:///K:/Windows/Microsoft.NET/Framework/v2.0.50727/mscorlib.dll
----------------------------------------
WindowsApplication1
Versión del ensamblado: 1.0.4147.16925
Versión Win32: 1.0.4147.16925
Código base: file:///K:/Matrix%20Games/Advanced%20Tactics%20Gold/AdvancedTacticsGold.exe
----------------------------------------
System.Windows.Forms
Versión del ensamblado: 2.0.0.0
Versión Win32: 2.0.50727.4927 (NetFXspW7.050727-4900)
Código base: file:///K:/Windows/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Windows.Forms/2.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.Windows.Forms.dll
----------------------------------------
System
Versión del ensamblado: 2.0.0.0
Versión Win32: 2.0.50727.4927 (NetFXspW7.050727-4900)
Código base: file:///K:/Windows/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System/2.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.dll
----------------------------------------
System.Drawing
Versión del ensamblado: 2.0.0.0
Versión Win32: 2.0.50727.4927 (NetFXspW7.050727-4900)
Código base: file:///K:/Windows/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Drawing/2.0.0.0__b03f5f7f11d50a3a/System.Drawing.dll
----------------------------------------
Microsoft.VisualBasic
Versión del ensamblado: 8.0.0.0
Versión Win32: 8.0.50727.4927 (NetFXspW7.050727-4900)
Código base: file:///K:/Windows/assembly/GAC_MSIL/Microsoft.VisualBasic/8.0.0.0__b03f5f7f11d50a3a/Microsoft.VisualBasic.dll
----------------------------------------
ICSharpCode.SharpZipLib
Versión del ensamblado: 0.84.0.0
Versión Win32: 0.84.0.0
Código base: file:///K:/Matrix%20Games/Advanced%20Tactics%20Gold/ICSharpCode.SharpZipLib.DLL
----------------------------------------
mscorlib.resources
Versión del ensamblado: 2.0.0.0
Versión Win32: 2.0.50727.4959 (win7RTMGDR.050727-4900)
Código base: file:///K:/Windows/Microsoft.NET/Framework/v2.0.50727/mscorlib.dll
----------------------------------------
irrKlang.NET
Versión del ensamblado: 1.3.0.0
Versión Win32: 1, 1, 0, 0
Código base: file:///K:/Matrix%20Games/Advanced%20Tactics%20Gold/irrKlang.NET.DLL
----------------------------------------
System.Windows.Forms.resources
Versión del ensamblado: 2.0.0.0
Versión Win32: 2.0.50727.4927 (NetFXspW7.050727-4900)
Código base: file:///K:/Windows/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Windows.Forms.resources/2.0.0.0_es_b77a5c561934e089/System.Windows.Forms.resources.dll
----------------------------------------

************** Depuración JIT **************
Para habilitar la depuración Just In Time (JIT), el archivo de configuración de esta
aplicación o equipo (machine.config) debe tener el
valor jitDebugging establecido en la sección system.windows.forms.
La aplicación también se debe compilar con la depuración
habilitada

Por ejemplo:

<configuration>
<system.windows.forms jitDebugging="true" />
</configuration>

Cuando esté habilitada la depuración JIT, cualquier excepción no controlada
se enviará al depurador JIT registrado en el equipo
en lugar de controlarlo mediante el cuadro de diálogo.


If I press continue the game freezes. Any ideas why? A message says Index out of matrix range.




_____________________________


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(in reply to Vic)
Post #: 52
RE: German 6th Army Campaign - 5/16/2011 11:39:04 PM   
ernieschwitz

 

Posts: 3893
Joined: 9/15/2009
From: Denmark
Status: offline 		I think you need to report this in the Support section. Usually when you get that kind of crash its something that Vic needs to know about.

(in reply to rjh1971)
Post #: 53
RE: German 6th Army Campaign - 5/17/2011 10:32:40 AM   
rjh1971


Posts: 4919
Joined: 12/13/2005
From: Madrid, Spain
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ernieschwitz

I think you need to report this in the Support section. Usually when you get that kind of crash its something that Vic needs to know about.


Sure I can do that, I only posted here because Vic responded to another technical issue, but you're right it may be easier for him to spot it in the Tech Support Section.

_____________________________


GG's AWD, GG's WBTS, GG's WitE Beta Tester
Beta Tester: Panzer Corps, Time of Fury, CtGW, DC CB, DC3 Barbarossa, SC WWII WiE, SC WWII WaW, SC WWI

(in reply to ernieschwitz)
Post #: 54
RE: German 6th Army Campaign - 5/17/2011 12:26:57 PM   
Vic


Posts: 8262
Joined: 5/17/2004
Status: offline 		i gave response in the tech support forum. please always report errors there.
issue is confirmed. is engine bug, not scenario bug. will be fixed in v2.04

big thanks for reporting this!


_____________________________

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(in reply to rjh1971)
Post #: 55
RE: German 6th Army Campaign - 11/1/2015 4:35:54 PM   
demyansk


Posts: 2840
Joined: 2/20/2008
Status: offline 		Where do you find this campaign? I can't find the link for an install?

Thanks

(in reply to RufusTFirefly)
Post #: 56
RE: German 6th Army Campaign - 11/1/2015 6:28:56 PM   
rjh1971


Posts: 4919
Joined: 12/13/2005
From: Madrid, Spain
Status: offline 		Here http://www.advancedtactics.org/scenario.php?nr=110&tpage=0&tplayer=7&ttag=0&tai=0&tdeleted=0&tengine=0

You may have to sign up, if you don't have an account.

_____________________________


GG's AWD, GG's WBTS, GG's WitE Beta Tester
Beta Tester: Panzer Corps, Time of Fury, CtGW, DC CB, DC3 Barbarossa, SC WWII WiE, SC WWII WaW, SC WWI

(in reply to demyansk)
Post #: 57
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