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RE: Lost opportunities.... - 9/19/2011 4:13:59 PM   
Cap Mandrake


Posts: 23184
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline 		*********Aboard HMS Ramilles, flagship of Bombardment Group, October 4, 1942********

She is down by the bow with a 5% list to port and can make only 11 kts, though she seems otherwise remarkably undamaged from the bridge.

Capt Tufnell, TF commander: Bloody Hell! Perhaps I should have gone with Dickens theme for my speech, instead of St. Crispen's Day. Do you think it was too bellicose?

XO: Oh, no sir. It was a lovely speech. I blame the Admiralty.

Capt Tufnell, TF commander: The Admiralty?

XO: It's ships name, sir. It's a <lowers voice>...jinx. You didn't see any adjective-named ships taking torpedoes did you?

Capt Tufnell, TF commander: Really, you think so?

XO: Oh, yes sir. I'm quite sure of it. Look at poor old Resolution. I mean, what threat was she to Johny Jap? Honestly? Nothing but star shells left in her magazines? If she had been named "Resolute" instead she would be good as new.

Capt Tufnell, TF commander: Interesting theory you have, but what about Chilliwick?

XO: Noun, sir. I'm quite sure. I don't think your average Redskin used adjectives, sir.

Capt Tufnell, TF commander: I had no idea you had such a fund of knowledge of linguistics.

XO: Oh, yes sir. I am a whiz at quiz games.

Capt Tufnell, TF commander: Really, how are you at Bridge? I should like to Tenant a lesson when we get back to Perth?....

(in reply to Cap Mandrake)
Post #: 5161
RE: Lost opportunities.... - 9/19/2011 4:18:52 PM   
witpqs


Posts: 26087
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

TF 299. Wasp is apparently able to conduct flight ops.





Not with fires, even if small.

(in reply to Cap Mandrake)
Post #: 5162
RE: Lost opportunities.... - 9/19/2011 6:10:36 PM   
Cap Mandrake


Posts: 23184
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline 		I just added it up. 102 Allied torpedo bomber sorties and one rousy torpedo hit on Kirishima.

We could do more damage with rice paper baloons or maybe Sam Snead hitting time-fused exploding golf balls off the deck of Wasp.

(in reply to Cap Mandrake)
Post #: 5163
RE: Lost opportunities.... - 9/19/2011 7:20:45 PM   
sprior


Posts: 8596
Joined: 6/18/2002
From: Portsmouth, UK
Status: offline 		Maybe we should bring those biplanes back.

_____________________________

"Grown ups are what's left when skool is finished."
"History started badly and hav been geting steadily worse."
- Nigel Molesworth.



(in reply to Cap Mandrake)
Post #: 5164
RE: Lost opportunities.... - 9/19/2011 7:33:20 PM   
Cap Mandrake


Posts: 23184
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

TF 299. Wasp is apparently able to conduct flight ops.





Not with fires, even if small.


I suppose you are going to tell me it's in the manual?

Her air groups were night "greyed out". Perhaps that just means they can safely fly off?

(in reply to witpqs)
Post #: 5165
RE: Lost opportunities.... - 9/19/2011 8:11:20 PM   
sprior


Posts: 8596
Joined: 6/18/2002
From: Portsmouth, UK
Status: offline 		Do we go on or go back, replenish the air groups and then try again?

PS. Akagi suffered an ammo explosion and Soryu a fuel explosion.

_____________________________

"Grown ups are what's left when skool is finished."
"History started badly and hav been geting steadily worse."
- Nigel Molesworth.



(in reply to Cap Mandrake)
Post #: 5166
RE: Lost opportunities.... - 9/19/2011 8:38:18 PM   
Cap Mandrake


Posts: 23184
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sprior

Do we go on or go back, replenish the air groups and then try again?

PS. Akagi suffered an ammo explosion and Soryu a fuel explosion.


We already sunk Akagi and Soryu once (according to reports) and now they rise from the dead.

I'd say let's kill the vermin for good. It looks like we will have only 2 decks to deal with (perhaps even one if Soryu is disabled), +/- Netties. we dont want them trickling back to Soerabaja or Koepang and being repaired

I'd say keep the amphib group heaed South for safety. Maybe they can make Carnavon. Then the carriers can either loiter near the Amphib Group and be set to react or move North to increase liklihood of an intercept.

There are plenty of bombs on the carriers, even if a few are out of torps. We can kill cripples. The CAP can be set at 80% perhaps because JJ will probably not have good CAP over his cripples. I think we have the initiative with PH airfield shut down completely and most of the bombers moved from Wyndham.


In summary, i would say try to kill the cripples this turn, then consider sending the PH force back up and waiting on a landing at Broome unitl the carriers are restocked with F4F's

FYI, there are over 100 bombers at Koeapng and Broome is operational too. Weather permitting we can pound Broome with the heavies again.


< Message edited by Cap Mandrake -- 9/19/2011 8:39:43 PM >

(in reply to sprior)
Post #: 5167
RE: Lost opportunities.... - 9/19/2011 8:42:08 PM   
Cap Mandrake


Posts: 23184
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline 		BTW...what altitude do we set the torpedo bombers on if we want them to glide bomb?

Should we do that or just set to level bomb (over 10,000 ft as I recall)?

(in reply to Cap Mandrake)
Post #: 5168
RE: Lost opportunities.... - 9/19/2011 8:58:51 PM   
sprior


Posts: 8596
Joined: 6/18/2002
From: Portsmouth, UK
Status: offline 		Alright, let's go for it. PH force to return to PH accompanied by surface units with full ammo loads, the CVs can head NE to catch the trailing JJ CVs. Wasp will head SW back to Geraldton.

_____________________________

"Grown ups are what's left when skool is finished."
"History started badly and hav been geting steadily worse."
- Nigel Molesworth.



(in reply to Cap Mandrake)
Post #: 5169
RE: Lost opportunities.... - 9/19/2011 9:06:04 PM   
sprior


Posts: 8596
Joined: 6/18/2002
From: Portsmouth, UK
Status: offline 		Bomb Broome into dust

_____________________________

"Grown ups are what's left when skool is finished."
"History started badly and hav been geting steadily worse."
- Nigel Molesworth.



(in reply to sprior)
Post #: 5170
RE: Lost opportunities.... - 9/19/2011 9:15:11 PM   
witpqs


Posts: 26087
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

TF 299. Wasp is apparently able to conduct flight ops.





Not with fires, even if small.


I suppose you are going to tell me it's in the manual?

Her air groups were night "greyed out". Perhaps that just means they can safely fly off?



If they are night greyed out then maybe it's just soot from the fire.

(in reply to Cap Mandrake)
Post #: 5171
RE: Lost opportunities.... - 9/19/2011 9:20:18 PM   
Cap Mandrake


Posts: 23184
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sprior

Bomb Broome into dust


Amen, brudda'.

Just looking at map again. I'd make sure you stay out of Val and Kate range from Broome this turn even if it means missing some cripples. Can you imagine if some carrier Vals and Zeroes recovered there? I will order a night attack to try to mess things up but they would take off before any daytime attack can arrive over Broome.

I therefore rescind my suggestion on use of the "react" button.

(in reply to sprior)
Post #: 5172
RE: Lost opportunities.... - 9/19/2011 9:21:37 PM   
Cap Mandrake


Posts: 23184
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline 		One of you know it all JFB's...what is max range for kates and Vals in 10-42?

(in reply to Cap Mandrake)
Post #: 5173
RE: Lost opportunities.... - 9/19/2011 9:27:09 PM   
Cap Mandrake


Posts: 23184
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs
If they are night greyed out then maybe it's just soot from the fire.


I think I subconsiously meant "nicht greyed out"

(in reply to witpqs)
Post #: 5174
RE: Us - 9/19/2011 9:28:43 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Grollub


quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

Looks like a more than fair exchange for you lot. I trust Wasp isn't too badly off? How's BB Resolution looking?

IMHO, that's a gross understatement. Could it be that our dynamic duo actually knows what they're doing?

Well, I'm speaking (well writing) to an Englishman half of the duo, so thought I'd use my understatement lingo.

For the sake of our Swedish compatriot and any Americans reading-so there's no misunderstandings-I offer the following assessment:

YEE-HAW! HOT HORSE S***! BEER AND VAGINAS!!! Y'ALL KICKED THE **** OUT OF THOSE ****ERS!!!!

_____________________________


(in reply to Grollub)
Post #: 5175
RE: Lost opportunities.... - 9/19/2011 9:31:19 PM   
sprior


Posts: 8596
Joined: 6/18/2002
From: Portsmouth, UK
Status: offline 		Alright, PH force will retire to the west. CVs and the BBs will cover. Once Broome gets a good kicking we'll go in again. Meantime Wasp is ordered back to Perth with 3 x DDs as escort.

< Message edited by sprior -- 9/19/2011 9:49:01 PM >

_____________________________

"Grown ups are what's left when skool is finished."
"History started badly and hav been geting steadily worse."
- Nigel Molesworth.



(in reply to Cap Mandrake)
Post #: 5176
RE: Lost opportunities.... - 9/19/2011 9:36:35 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

One of you know it all JFB's...what is max range for kates and Vals in 10-42?

D3A1 (Val) range @ 10/42 should be 6 normal / 7 max.
B5N2 (Kate) range @ 10/42 can't recall offhand-at "work". I'll look it up when I get home.



_____________________________


(in reply to Cap Mandrake)
Post #: 5177
RE: Lost opportunities.... - 9/19/2011 9:41:22 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline 		In hindsight, you guys did remarkably well in the damage exchange. Very little damage compared what you probably meted out.

You will make sure that you stay at least 14 hexes away from Koepang, won't you? 14 hexes is the max range of A6M2 with drop tanks. They'd be remiss if they set their torpedo bombers at anything greater than escort at this point.

_____________________________


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Post #: 5178
RE: Lost opportunities.... - 9/19/2011 10:04:47 PM   
sprior


Posts: 8596
Joined: 6/18/2002
From: Portsmouth, UK
Status: offline 		I really should try to learn stuff like that.

_____________________________

"Grown ups are what's left when skool is finished."
"History started badly and hav been geting steadily worse."
- Nigel Molesworth.



(in reply to Chickenboy)
Post #: 5179
RE: Us - 9/19/2011 10:07:18 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso

Looks like 2 CV and a CVE will sink (if they haven't already)!   

Naw. That's way too aggressive a BDA, IMHO. I'd say the Hosho is probably going to sink (but hasn't yet sunk), but I'd be surprised if almost all the others don't make Soerbaja. Maybe either Shokaku OR Akagi, will fall behind and get pounded, but not both.

As honorary JFB commentator, here's what I'd do:

After having the airgroup(s) commit hara-kiri, I'd throw Hosho at you. The flaming wreck oughta bork your autorouting on the carriers. She's a goner anyways, may as well use her to throw you off the scent.

Alternatively If I could get you to react into Koepang air range (14 being the magic number), by reacting to the flaming wreck of Hosho into the hot zone, I'd use it for bait that way and maybe throw CVL Ryuho at you to bork your pathfinding routine to the north.

I'm really surprised that after catching an alleged three bombs (1000lbs, I assume) that Ryuho is not heavily damaged. I suspect FOW at play re: the bomb hits.

All other combatants would be ordered to clear the area, making best speed for Soerbaja. Even badly damaged, the carriers should be able to open up 6 hexes by morning.

I approve of your plan to aggressively pursue the remnants of his air combat fleet. Makes for entertaining reading. Finally.

< Message edited by Chickenboy -- 9/19/2011 10:09:52 PM >

_____________________________


(in reply to rtrapasso)
Post #: 5180
RE: Us - 9/19/2011 10:12:06 PM   
sprior


Posts: 8596
Joined: 6/18/2002
From: Portsmouth, UK
Status: offline 		Sorry mate, we're going the other way until Broome is pounded to dust then going back to PH, hugging the coast all the way.

I think we've sent a large chunk of JJ's CV fleet to the shipyard for a few months which means we can continue with Otter. If JJ isn't careful Northern Oz will become the largest PoW camp in the world.

_____________________________

"Grown ups are what's left when skool is finished."
"History started badly and hav been geting steadily worse."
- Nigel Molesworth.



(in reply to Chickenboy)
Post #: 5181
RE: Lost opportunities.... - 9/19/2011 10:17:20 PM   
Cap Mandrake


Posts: 23184
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline 		Admiral Lord Sprior;

Here is a map. The West coast of Oz is just within range of Zero escorted Bettys until you get a few hexes SW of Exmouth

Of course, there is no "safe" area as the Bettys can attack well beyond the Zeroes and the Nells too, but at least we have a CAP




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Cap Mandrake -- 9/19/2011 10:18:30 PM >

(in reply to Cap Mandrake)
Post #: 5182
RE: Us - 9/19/2011 10:56:01 PM   
Grollub


Posts: 6674
Joined: 10/9/2005
From: Lulea, Sweden
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Grollub


quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

Looks like a more than fair exchange for you lot. I trust Wasp isn't too badly off? How's BB Resolution looking?

IMHO, that's a gross understatement. Could it be that our dynamic duo actually knows what they're doing?

Well, I'm speaking (well writing) to an Englishman half of the duo, so thought I'd use my understatement lingo.

For the sake of our Swedish compatriot and any Americans reading-so there's no misunderstandings-I offer the following assessment:

YEE-HAW! HOT HORSE S***! BEER AND VAGINAS!!! Y'ALL KICKED THE **** OUT OF THOSE ****ERS!!!!



You're still understating the result

_____________________________

“Not mastering metaphores is like cooking pasta when the train is delayed"

(in reply to Chickenboy)
Post #: 5183
RE: Us - 9/19/2011 11:01:09 PM   
rtrapasso


Posts: 22653
Joined: 9/3/2002
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso

Looks like 2 CV and a CVE will sink (if they haven't already)!   

Naw. That's way too aggressive a BDA, IMHO. I'd say the Hosho is probably going to sink (but hasn't yet sunk), but I'd be surprised if almost all the others don't make Soerbaja. Maybe either Shokaku OR Akagi, will fall behind and get pounded, but not both.

As honorary JFB commentator, here's what I'd do:

After having the airgroup(s) commit hara-kiri, I'd throw Hosho at you. The flaming wreck oughta bork your autorouting on the carriers. She's a goner anyways, may as well use her to throw you off the scent.

Alternatively If I could get you to react into Koepang air range (14 being the magic number), by reacting to the flaming wreck of Hosho into the hot zone, I'd use it for bait that way and maybe throw CVL Ryuho at you to bork your pathfinding routine to the north.

I'm really surprised that after catching an alleged three bombs (1000lbs, I assume) that Ryuho is not heavily damaged. I suspect FOW at play re: the bomb hits.

All other combatants would be ordered to clear the area, making best speed for Soerbaja. Even badly damaged, the carriers should be able to open up 6 hexes by morning.

I approve of your plan to aggressively pursue the remnants of his air combat fleet. Makes for entertaining reading. Finally.



They may make Soerabaja - but i am guessing they will sink anyways... Heavy Fires + Heavy Damage on an IJA carrier is usually a death sentence (not so on an Allied ship).... we shall see.

(in reply to Chickenboy)
Post #: 5184
RE: Us - 9/20/2011 12:50:20 AM   
Cap Mandrake


Posts: 23184
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sprior

Sorry mate, we're going the other way until Broome is pounded to dust then going back to PH, hugging the coast all the way.

I think we've sent a large chunk of JJ's CV fleet to the shipyard for a few months which means we can continue with Otter. If JJ isn't careful Northern Oz will become the largest PoW camp in the world.


Yeah baby!

(in reply to sprior)
Post #: 5185
RE: Lost opportunities.... - 9/20/2011 12:58:56 AM   
Alfred

 

Posts: 6685
Joined: 9/28/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

I just added it up. 102 Allied torpedo bomber sorties and one rousy torpedo hit on Kirishima.

We could do more damage with rice paper baloons or maybe Sam Snead hitting time-fused exploding golf balls off the deck of Wasp.


All the more reason to speed up the R & D on developing those drop tanks as ordnance for the fearsome Wapiti.

Alfred

(in reply to Cap Mandrake)
Post #: 5186
RE: Lost opportunities.... - 9/20/2011 9:10:52 PM   
sprior


Posts: 8596
Joined: 6/18/2002
From: Portsmouth, UK
Status: offline 		WE just got our arses handed to us on a plate. More to follow.

_____________________________

"Grown ups are what's left when skool is finished."
"History started badly and hav been geting steadily worse."
- Nigel Molesworth.



(in reply to Alfred)
Post #: 5187
RE: Lost opportunities.... - 9/20/2011 9:50:17 PM   
sprior


Posts: 8596
Joined: 6/18/2002
From: Portsmouth, UK
Status: offline 		Not a bad start:

Night Time Surface Combat, near Exmouth at 50,127, Range 8,000 Yards

Allied aircraft
no flights

Allied aircraft losses
No Allied losses

Japanese Ships
BB Kongo, Shell hits 10, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
CA Chikuma
CA Maya
DD Yugumo, Shell hits 2
DD Asashio, Shell hits 1
DD Michishio, Shell hits 1, on fire

Allied Ships
BC Repulse, Shell hits 1
CA Canberra
CA Dorsetshire
CA Exeter, Shell hits 5, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
CL Danae, Shell hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
CL Durban
CL Dauntless
DD Morris, Shell hits 10, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Craven
DD Mahan, Shell hits 1
DD Conyngham

But then:

Night Time Surface Combat, near Exmouth at 50,127, Range 8,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
BB Kirishima, Shell hits 6
CA Atago, Shell hits 2
CA Haguro
CL Tama
DD Naganami
DD Tanikaze
DD Arashio
DD Usugumo

Allied Ships
CV Enterprise, Shell hits 6, heavy fires
CV Hornet, Shell hits 3, Torpedo hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
BB North Carolina
CA Chicago
CA Australia, Shell hits 1, and is sunk
CLAA San Diego
CL St. Louis
CL Boise, Shell hits 2
CL Honolulu
DD Woodworth
DD Bancroft, Shell hits 3
DD Dunlap
DD Flusser, Shell hits 1, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
DD Cassin

And then:

Night Time Surface Combat, near Exmouth at 50,128, Range 8,000 Yards

Allied aircraft
no flights

Allied aircraft losses
No Allied losses

Japanese Ships
BB Kirishima, Shell hits 5
CA Atago, Shell hits 1, on fire
CA Haguro, Shell hits 2, on fire
CL Tama, Shell hits 1
DD Naganami, Shell hits 2
DD Tanikaze, Shell hits 1
DD Arashio, Shell hits 1
DD Usugumo, Shell hits 3, on fire

Allied Ships
BB Ramillies, Shell hits 19, on fire
BB Resolution, Shell hits 8, heavy damage
CA Quincy, Shell hits 18, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
CA Cornwall, Shell hits 4, heavy fires
DD Benham, Shell hits 1
DD Dale
DD Nestor, Shell hits 1
DD Nizam, Shell hits 10, and is sunk
DD Norman

And finally:
Night Time Surface Combat, near Exmouth at 50,127, Range 9,000 Yards

Allied aircraft
no flights

Allied aircraft losses
No Allied losses

Japanese Ships
BB Haruna
CL Oi
DD Oboro
DD Satsuki
DD Minekaze
DD Nokaze
DD Namikaze
DD Numakaze

Allied Ships
CV Hornet, Shell hits 9, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
CLAA San Diego, Shell hits 1



_____________________________

"Grown ups are what's left when skool is finished."
"History started badly and hav been geting steadily worse."
- Nigel Molesworth.



(in reply to sprior)
Post #: 5188
RE: Lost opportunities.... - 9/20/2011 9:51:31 PM   
sprior


Posts: 8596
Joined: 6/18/2002
From: Portsmouth, UK
Status: offline 		Meanwhile over at Norfolk Island:

Night Time Surface Combat, near Norfolk Island at 113,170, Range 4,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
CA Ashigara, Shell hits 4
DD Yukikaze, Shell hits 8, Torpedo hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Hagikaze, Shell hits 3, on fire
DD Shirayuki, Shell hits 1
DD Hatsuyuki
DD Yuzuki

Allied Ships
CA Portland, Shell hits 2, on fire
CL Detroit
CL Trenton, Shell hits 5, on fire
CL Phoenix, Shell hits 2, on fire
DD Anderson, Shell hits 1, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
DD Helm
DD Preston, Shell hits 1, on fire
DD Balch, Shell hits 1

_____________________________

"Grown ups are what's left when skool is finished."
"History started badly and hav been geting steadily worse."
- Nigel Molesworth.



(in reply to sprior)
Post #: 5189
RE: Lost opportunities.... - 9/20/2011 9:53:49 PM   
sprior


Posts: 8596
Joined: 6/18/2002
From: Portsmouth, UK
Status: offline 		And the devastating air reponse:

Morning Air attack on TF, near Exmouth at 53,126

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid spotted at 41 NM, estimated altitude 17,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 19 minutes


Allied aircraft
F4F-4 Wildcat x 2
TBF-1 Avenger x 4


Allied aircraft losses
TBF-1 Avenger: 1 damaged

Japanese Ships
BB Haruna



Aircraft Attacking:
4 x TBF-1 Avenger bombing from 5000 feet *
Naval Attack: 2 x 500 lb SAP Bomb



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Exmouth at 49,124

Weather in hex: Light rain

Raid spotted at 41 NM, estimated altitude 15,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 24 minutes


Allied aircraft
Albacore I x 11


Allied aircraft losses
Albacore I: 1 destroyed, 2 damaged

Japanese Ships
BB Kongo, Bomb hits 3



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Exmouth at 53,126

Weather in hex: Heavy cloud

Raid spotted at 20 NM, estimated altitude 11,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 7 minutes


Allied aircraft
SBD-3 Dauntless x 25


Allied aircraft losses
SBD-3 Dauntless: 4 damaged

Japanese Ships
BB Haruna, Bomb hits 8, heavy fires
DD Namikaze, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Oboro

_____________________________

"Grown ups are what's left when skool is finished."
"History started badly and hav been geting steadily worse."
- Nigel Molesworth.



(in reply to sprior)
Post #: 5190
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