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RE: Sturm und drang - 3/29/2013 2:32:24 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline 		Haven't heard from the Cap'n on this yet. For the audience, I'll speak for him: "Ugh."

How many planes lost 'on ground' with those two CVE sinkings, Lord Admiral? Any of them divert, or did you lose the lot?

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Post #: 11311
RE: Sturm und drang - 3/29/2013 2:37:50 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline 		Also, I don't suppose it would be appropriate to praise the torpedo work of Yura, et. al.? I count 9 torpedo hits from that sortie.

On second thought, it probably wouldn't be appropriate at this juncture.

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Post #: 11312
RE: Sturm und drang - 3/29/2013 3:06:06 PM   
Cap Mandrake


Posts: 23184
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline 		Merely a flesh wound!

(in reply to Chickenboy)
Post #: 11313
RE: Sturm und drang - 3/29/2013 3:36:42 PM   
Cap Mandrake


Posts: 23184
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline 		Thunderstorm...max visibility 2000 yds. Engagement started at 1000 yds.



Poor visibility due to Thunderstorms with 60% moonlight
Maximum visibility in Thunderstorms and 60% moonlight: 2,000 yards
Range closes to 19,000 yards...
Range closes to 13,000 yards...
Range closes to 7,000 yards...
Range closes to 3,000 yards...
Range closes to 1,000 yards...
Hashimoto, Shintaro crosses the 'T'
CL Yura engages BC Repulse at 1,000 yards
CL Yura engages CA Frobisher at 1,000 yards
CL Ceres engages DD Yugure at 1,000 yards
CL Yura engages DD Nestor at 1,000 yards
CL Yura engages DD Encounter at 1,000 yards
DD Yugure engages DD Warramunga at 1,000 yards
Range increases to 2,000 yards
BB Prince of Wales engages CL Yura at 2,000 yards
BC Repulse engages CL Yura at 2,000 yards
CL Yura engages CA Frobisher at 2,000 yards
CL Yura engages CL Ceres at 2,000 yards
DD Encounter engages DD Kawakaze at 2,000 yards
Range increases to 5,000 yards
CL Yura engages BB Prince of Wales at 5,000 yards
BC Repulse engages CL Yura at 5,000 yards
CL Ceres engages DD Yugure at 5,000 yards
DD Kawakaze engages DD Warramunga at 5,000 yards
DD Yugure engages DD Encounter at 5,000 yards
DD Warramunga engages DD Kawakaze at 5,000 yards
Range increases to 8,000 yards
BB Prince of Wales engages CL Yura at 8,000 yards
DD Isonami engages DD Warramunga at 8,000 yards
CA Frobisher engages CL Yura at 8,000 yards
DD Yugure engages DD Nestor at 8,000 yards
DD Nestor engages DD Yugure at 8,000 yards

(in reply to Chickenboy)
Post #: 11314
RE: Sturm und drang - 3/29/2013 3:42:34 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sprior

And then some more:

Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Akyab at 52,46

Weather in hex: Heavy cloud

Raid detected at 96 NM, estimated altitude 10,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 30 minutes

Japanese aircraft
B5M1 Mabel x 6
G3M3 Nell x 10
Ki-43-IIa Oscar x 11
Ki-44-IIa Tojo x 29



Allied aircraft
Sea Hurricane Ib x 4
Martlet II x 1
Martlet IV x 1


Japanese aircraft losses
G3M3 Nell: 1 damaged
Ki-43-IIa Oscar: 1 destroyed
Ki-44-IIa Tojo: 1 destroyed

No Allied losses

Allied Ships
CVE Suwannee, Torpedo hits 4, and is sunk
xAP Amra, Torpedo hits 1
CVE Chenango, Torpedo hits 2, and is sunk
xAP Rajput, Torpedo hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage


Allied ground losses:
78 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Non Combat: 4 destroyed, 11 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled


Would it be too soon to point out the excellent performance of the B5N1 and G3M3 aircrew here? 10 hits out of 16 torpedoes? Very impressive work.

Ummm....I mean that this was merely a flesh wound, rah rah Allies and down with the cheatin' Japs!

_____________________________


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Post #: 11315
RE: Sturm und drang - 3/29/2013 3:42:58 PM   
Cap Mandrake


Posts: 23184
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline 		That will have been Br. 16th Brigade and IV Indian Corps HQ swimming with the Bay of Bengal tiger prawns.

The good news:

Perhaps the F4F's from the CVE's will recover to Akyab.

Perhaps enough of 16th Brigade will have got ashore to take the place.

Having sunk 3 CVE's in the last 2 days, JJ will be newly energized so they don't surrender.

(in reply to Cap Mandrake)
Post #: 11316
RE: Sturm und drang - 3/29/2013 3:43:53 PM   
Cap Mandrake


Posts: 23184
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline 		I hereby retract what I said about "balsa wood Nells"

(in reply to Cap Mandrake)
Post #: 11317
RE: Sturm und drang - 3/29/2013 3:45:16 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

I hereby retract what I said about "balsa wood Nells"


Note the excellent IJAAF escort. Very well defended en route to the target.

_____________________________


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Post #: 11318
RE: Sturm und drang - 3/29/2013 3:47:52 PM   
Cap Mandrake


Posts: 23184
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline 		****************Meanwhile, in the PI*****************

Taytay: 5th Air Force is now operating out of Manado, a level 6 airfield. They can't reach Manira or Clark so they go after Taytay. Looks like Taytay is shut down. I was goign to drop some paras on Puerta Princessa, but I forgot.

Morning Air attack on Taytay , at 75,82

Weather in hex: Light rain

Raid spotted at 39 NM, estimated altitude 11,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 13 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 3



Allied aircraft
B-24D Liberator x 25
B-24D1 Liberator x 16


Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 3 damaged

No Allied losses

Japanese ground losses:
106 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 8 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 5 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled



Airbase hits 5
Airbase supply hits 3
Runway hits 16

(in reply to Cap Mandrake)
Post #: 11319
RE: Sturm und drang - 3/29/2013 3:49:45 PM   
Cap Mandrake


Posts: 23184
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline 		Clark: It's going to take something more than this to take down a level 8 field. We lose at least one B- 24. These birds are flying from Cagayan, which is packed.

Morning Air attack on Clark Field , at 79,76

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid detected at 31 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 10 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M3a Zero x 6
Ki-44-IIa Tojo x 20



Allied aircraft
B-24D Liberator x 20


Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-44-IIa Tojo: 1 destroyed
G4M1 Betty: 3 destroyed on ground
D3A2 Val: 1 destroyed on ground

Allied aircraft losses
B-24D Liberator: 1 destroyed, 4 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
5 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled



Airbase hits 6
Runway hits 6

Naturally, the P-38 sweep comes in afterward.

Morning Air attack on Clark Field , at 79,76

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid detected at 24 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 4 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M3a Zero x 6
Ki-44-IIa Tojo x 17



Allied aircraft
P-38G Lightning x 9


Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-44-IIa Tojo: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
P-38G Lightning: 1 destroyed



Aircraft Attacking:
1 x P-38G Lightning sweeping at 30000 feet

< Message edited by Cap Mandrake -- 3/29/2013 3:51:30 PM >

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Post #: 11320
RE: Sturm und drang - 3/29/2013 3:55:16 PM   
Cap Mandrake


Posts: 23184
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline 		Legaspi: Literally nothing bad happened. I'm hoping some suppries got ashore. The carriers and escorts and about 42K embarked troops should be offshore between Cagayan and Butuan.

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Post #: 11321
RE: Sturm und drang - 3/29/2013 4:46:48 PM   
sprior


Posts: 8596
Joined: 6/18/2002
From: Portsmouth, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

Haven't heard from the Cap'n on this yet. For the audience, I'll speak for him: "Ugh."

How many planes lost 'on ground' with those two CVE sinkings, Lord Admiral? Any of them divert, or did you lose the lot?


Sorry, but they diverted to Akyab.

_____________________________

"Grown ups are what's left when skool is finished."
"History started badly and hav been geting steadily worse."
- Nigel Molesworth.



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Post #: 11322
RE: Sturm und drang - 3/29/2013 4:46:55 PM   
Lecivius


Posts: 4845
Joined: 8/5/2007
From: Denver
Status: offline 		I lost the POW to the Yura once. The Brits sank the Yamato the night before in a totally surprised encounter that started at 4000 yards. I was ecstatic!

Next day the POW, 2 CA's & 6 DD's ran into this bad boy & a few DD's and down she went. That was months ago, I still think on it

(in reply to Cap Mandrake)
Post #: 11323
RE: Sturm und drang - 3/29/2013 5:35:16 PM   
Cap Mandrake


Posts: 23184
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sprior


quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

Haven't heard from the Cap'n on this yet. For the audience, I'll speak for him: "Ugh."

How many planes lost 'on ground' with those two CVE sinkings, Lord Admiral? Any of them divert, or did you lose the lot?


Sorry, but they diverted to Akyab.


I didn't have a chance to watch the combat replay. Did some of 16th brigade get ashore?

(in reply to sprior)
Post #: 11324
RE: Sturm und drang - 3/29/2013 5:40:35 PM   
Cap Mandrake


Posts: 23184
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline 		In his email, Rord Admirar Fabertong politely decrined to spike football.

Meanwhile the captain of *#&#@(&% Yura is probably on "Emperor-Brand War Bond Tour"

(in reply to Chickenboy)
Post #: 11325
RE: Sturm und drang - 3/29/2013 5:54:46 PM   
witpqs


Posts: 26087
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

Clark: It's going to take something more than this to take down a level 8 field. We lose at least one B- 24. These birds are flying from Cagayan, which is packed.

Morning Air attack on Clark Field , at 79,76

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid detected at 31 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 10 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M3a Zero x 6
Ki-44-IIa Tojo x 20



Allied aircraft
B-24D Liberator x 20


Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-44-IIa Tojo: 1 destroyed
G4M1 Betty: 3 destroyed on ground
D3A2 Val: 1 destroyed on ground

Allied aircraft losses
B-24D Liberator: 1 destroyed, 4 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
5 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled



Airbase hits 6
Runway hits 6

Naturally, the P-38 sweep comes in afterward.

Morning Air attack on Clark Field , at 79,76

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid detected at 24 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 4 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M3a Zero x 6
Ki-44-IIa Tojo x 17



Allied aircraft
P-38G Lightning x 9


Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-44-IIa Tojo: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
P-38G Lightning: 1 destroyed



Aircraft Attacking:
1 x P-38G Lightning sweeping at 30000 feet

Bombing the airfield where the squadrons lives does reduce the squadron's morale, AFAIK. That, plus the damage & destruction of their planes (and possible WIA/KIA of pilots on the ground) reduces the danger from them. I think it reduces it from

"Oh my God they're going to kill us all!!!"

to

"Oh my God they're going to kill us all!!"

_____________________________

Intel Monkey: https://sites.google.com/view/staffmonkeys/home

(in reply to Cap Mandrake)
Post #: 11326
RE: Sturm und drang - 3/29/2013 6:11:33 PM   
Cap Mandrake


Posts: 23184
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline 		I just thought of something. Was it the captain of Yura that M&M Enterprises was asked to "eliminate"? Hideo something, as I recall.

(in reply to witpqs)
Post #: 11327
RE: Sturm und drang - 3/29/2013 6:22:26 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

I just thought of something. Was it the captain of Yura that M&M Enterprises was asked to "eliminate"? Hideo something, as I recall.


Ah...good news! Hideo something riquidated! Hai. (bows)

Ah....he repraced with something Tanaka. No reration. Hai. (bows)

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Post #: 11328
RE: Sturm und drang - 3/29/2013 6:35:22 PM   
Kwik E Mart


Posts: 2447
Joined: 7/22/2004
Status: offline 		...my, my...




Attachment (1)

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Kirk Lazarus: I know who I am. I'm the dude playin' the dude, disguised as another dude!
Ron Swanson: Clear alcohols are for rich women on diets.

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Post #: 11329
RE: Sturm und drang - 3/29/2013 6:55:33 PM   
sprior


Posts: 8596
Joined: 6/18/2002
From: Portsmouth, UK
Status: offline 		"Oh my God they're going to kill us all!!!"

to

"Oh my God they're going to kill us all!!"

I see what you did there.

_____________________________

"Grown ups are what's left when skool is finished."
"History started badly and hav been geting steadily worse."
- Nigel Molesworth.



(in reply to witpqs)
Post #: 11330
RE: Sturm und drang - 3/29/2013 6:58:17 PM   
Cap Mandrake


Posts: 23184
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kwik E Mart

...my, my...





Plastic Surgeons office?

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Post #: 11331
RE: Sturm und drang - 3/29/2013 7:13:36 PM   
davidjruss


Posts: 235
Joined: 5/25/2002
From: Derby, England
Status: offline 		Have we to guess which one is Lord Admiral sprior ?

DavidR

(in reply to Cap Mandrake)
Post #: 11332
RE: Sturm und drang - 3/29/2013 7:21:55 PM   
Argos

 

Posts: 130
Joined: 11/1/2010
From: Bozeman, MT
Status: offline 		Nope, the second Microsoft Xmas party...

(in reply to Cap Mandrake)
Post #: 11333
RE: Sturm und drang - 3/29/2013 7:50:05 PM   
Cap Mandrake


Posts: 23184
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Argos

Nope, the second Microsoft Xmas party...




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Post #: 11334
RE: Sturm und drang - 3/29/2013 11:51:20 PM   
Cap Mandrake


Posts: 23184
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline 		I looked at the replay. Don't think anything got ashore at Ramre. In fact, surving vessels began to withdraw to the NW.

F4F's without a deck flew to Diamond Harbour.

In the PI, the small landings at Tacloban (Northern Leyte) and Bacolad (between Cebu and Panay) encountered garrisons.

(in reply to Chickenboy)
Post #: 11335
RE: Sturm und drang - 3/30/2013 2:33:47 PM   
Cap Mandrake


Posts: 23184
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline 		ALSP;

I have some notions to preserve a landing at Ramree. Pick, choose, discard or mock at your preference.

1) With the loss of 2 decks carrying 36 F4F's, I think it would be risky to send Vicky and Hermes in by themselves.

2) We can use Akyab to support the landing. Fly in the aviation support from 167 Wing to Akyab. Fly in Vicky's Martlet IV with 9 hex range (after she is out of harm's way). Fly in the surving F4F's (after a few days R&R) and even the Dutch and USAAF P-40E's and any shorter ranged Martlets...et voila...unsinkable carrier.

3) Keep up pressure on Rangoon with heavies and P-38's

4) Drop 50th Indian Para either on Ramree itself or on Prome if it is unoccupied.

5) Bring troops ashore at Ramree over many days, perhaps low value AK's at the start so we fatigue or destroy the escorts with our LRCAP

6) Find that Jap brigade theat headed South from Akyab and hit it with fighter-bombers and mediums. Ditto the Jap armor that was at Prome. We can still get to Ramree before JJ can using 50th Indian if we have to.

7) With bug out of Jap brigade near Kalemyo, we can probably push south and get into the open ground near Shwebo. Maybe the Chindits can cut the rail to Myitkynia

8) I will keep up pressure in Luzon

9) Maybe use Wellington's on night raids on Rangoon airfield.

< Message edited by Cap Mandrake -- 3/30/2013 3:11:08 PM >

(in reply to Cap Mandrake)
Post #: 11336
RE: Sturm und drang - 3/30/2013 2:39:37 PM   
Cap Mandrake


Posts: 23184
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline 		Here are the air losses from the 25th. Much heavier Betty losses on the ground than expected. The F4F's losses are the squadron aboard the CVE sunk by IJN sub near Mindanao






Attachment (1)

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Post #: 11337
RE: Sturm und drang - 3/30/2013 5:29:03 PM   
witpqs


Posts: 26087
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline 		It almost sounds like you're asking a serious question?

Aw, you're such a kidder!

OK, OK. Ramree Island can be useful in various ways. It can form a base of operations of its own. It can provide supply to Burma (through Prome) prior to capture of Rangoon. It can be part of applying pressure to the defenses' flank during a movement down the coast road. It can also be part of applying pressure to the whole of middle and upper Burma by threatening a flanking move. It seems that if they are already moving forces up north in response to the Ramree Island move then maybe they see that one as a legitimate threat (based on what they know of their position and what they believe/fear of your position).

So, the least you should do is get something ashore that can defend itself. That will help to maintain/feed their assessment. Meanwhile, push like hell elsewhere in Burma.

If I understand the situation, you will be able to build up Ramree only slowly. It'll be a war of attrition to get supplies and engineers in there, and then keeping it open might be tough at first. You do have an advantage with the current state of the IJN. but getting everybody whacked going in there will tend to equalize things some, so avoid that. But get the place so it exerts pressure and builds to a real threat. Meanwhile, push everywhere you can in Burma to take advantage of the present uncertainty.

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(in reply to Cap Mandrake)
Post #: 11338
RE: Sturm und drang - 3/30/2013 5:59:22 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

It almost sounds like you're asking a serious question?



My dear sir. Please note the Capn's request for input from ALSP-the Lord Admiral himself. If he wanted input from the likes of us, he'd ask for the opinion of the peanut gallery / rabble / tittering monkeys.

*snicker* "tittering"...

_____________________________


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Post #: 11339
RE: Sturm und drang - 3/30/2013 6:03:31 PM   
Crackaces


Posts: 3858
Joined: 7/9/2011
Status: offline
quote:

It can provide supply to Burma (through Prome) prior to capture of Rangoon


That cannot be understated. I am not sure of the algorithum, but once Ramree Island is built up and overloaded with supplies .. supplies propagate everywhere in Burma. It is quite possible to horde supplies in the Irrawaddy Valley and then push them northward toward China as an example. Then there is supporting a huge offense to take Rangoon

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"What gets us into trouble is not what we don't know. It's what we know for sure that just ain't so"

(in reply to witpqs)
Post #: 11340
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