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RE: Wound my heart with a monotonous languor - 7/30/2013 8:34:05 PM   
Crackaces


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quote:

ORIGINAL: poodlebrain

I worked in Las Vegas in 1995, and there were $.25 craps tables at the Horseshoe. You could also get 10x odds at the Horseshoe. The following year Jack Binion offered 100x odds on craps at his riverboat casino in Bossier City, LA. That was back in the era before all of the casinos were owned by publicly traded corporations, and the owners were willing to take risks that might cause earning to slip by $.01 per quarter without worrying about the stock price falling. They were fun times to work in the gaming industry.


Yes .. but there also was the occasional stupid move ... We were doing our annual craps tour with the newbies (craps virgins) and the PitBoss saw 50 drunk gamblooolers and decided to up the stakes from 0.25 to $5 .. discouraging many of our craps virgins ... way stupid ... typically on this tour we make prop bets for the dealers so the dealers lost out too ...

At one time you could get 100X odds minimum $5 pass line/do not pass come/do not come bet downtown ...those days are long gone ..

_____________________________

"What gets us into trouble is not what we don't know. It's what we know for sure that just ain't so"

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Post #: 12631
RE: Wound my heart with a monotonous languor - 7/30/2013 8:36:58 PM   
Crackaces


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quote:

No clean dress shirts today so I am wearing a Mexican wedding shirt. If anyone says anything I'm celebrating Treinta de Julio.


Here in Phoenix we had a "physician" that "would not dress appropriately" and was caught looking up diagnoses and treatments using the internet . a nurse turned him in ... come to find out he was not licensed nor did he finish med school ... I am just saying Cap

_____________________________

"What gets us into trouble is not what we don't know. It's what we know for sure that just ain't so"

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Post #: 12632
RE: Wound my heart with a monotonous languor - 7/30/2013 8:40:01 PM   
Cap Mandrake


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quote:

ORIGINAL: poodlebrain

I worked in Las Vegas in 1995, and there were $.25 craps tables at the Horseshoe. You could also get 10x odds at the Horseshoe. The following year Jack Binion offered 100x odds on craps at his riverboat casino in Bossier City, LA. That was back in the era before all of the casinos were owned by publicly traded corporations, and the owners were willing to take risks that might cause earning to slip by $.01 per quarter without worrying about the stock price falling. They were fun times to work in the gaming industry.



I think you can still find 10x odds. The house isn't really giving anything away...it's mathematically neutral. Maybe they lose a little bit of expectation if the player backs off on his pass line betting.

I was downtown (maybe the Horseshoe?)once at a 25cent table goofing around. The table is having a good time. Everyone is tipping the crew. Most of the pass line bets are about $25. This old guy with a beard walks up and asks with a Shakespearean actor's voice, "WHAT IS THE LIMIT AT THIS TABLE!"

The dealers all snap to attention. Everyone stops talking and laughing. The boss answers obsequiously, "$1000 on the pass line sir, $500 on proposition bets. Do you have a card with us, sir?"

Old guy: <looks at table carefully with everyone waiting...then he plunks down a quarter>

(in reply to poodlebrain)
Post #: 12633
RE: Wound my heart with a monotonous languor - 7/30/2013 8:42:33 PM   
Cap Mandrake


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Crackaces

quote:

No clean dress shirts today so I am wearing a Mexican wedding shirt. If anyone says anything I'm celebrating Treinta de Julio.


Here in Phoenix we had a "physician" that "would not dress appropriately" and was caught looking up diagnoses and treatments using the internet . a nurse turned him in ... come to find out he was not licensed nor did he finish med school ... I am just saying Cap


Wait. You can get fired for looking crap up on the internet?

(in reply to Crackaces)
Post #: 12634
RE: Wound my heart with a monotonous languor - 7/30/2013 8:50:06 PM   
Crackaces


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake


quote:

ORIGINAL: Crackaces

quote:

No clean dress shirts today so I am wearing a Mexican wedding shirt. If anyone says anything I'm celebrating Treinta de Julio.


Here in Phoenix we had a "physician" that "would not dress appropriately" and was caught looking up diagnoses and treatments using the internet . a nurse turned him in ... come to find out he was not licensed nor did he finish med school ... I am just saying Cap


Wait. You can get fired for looking crap up on the internet?


I think the key is that if you are looking up crap while practicing medicine that one should be licensed to do so .. [some might think the internet should have a license too but that is also debatable ..]

I am just saying a disgruntled nurse might have the board of medicine looking into your practice and this whole WitP AE habit and wearing Hawaiian shirts at work is not going to look good ..

_____________________________

"What gets us into trouble is not what we don't know. It's what we know for sure that just ain't so"

(in reply to Cap Mandrake)
Post #: 12635
RE: Wound my heart with a monotonous languor - 7/30/2013 8:55:02 PM   
Crackaces


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quote:

I think you can still find 10x odds. The house isn't really giving anything away...it's mathematically neutral. Maybe they lose a little bit of expectation if the player backs off on his pass line betting


Take 6 -7 players all playing the right side .. take equal numbers playing the "Dark Side" all corresponding bets and no prop bets [except at good tables we make bets for the dealers].. money simply moves from one set of friends to another ... drink lots of ETOH on the house ... sometimes the red coats get involved but not always ..



_____________________________

"What gets us into trouble is not what we don't know. It's what we know for sure that just ain't so"

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Post #: 12636
RE: Wound my heart with a monotonous languor - 7/30/2013 9:15:06 PM   
jeffk3510


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Crackaces


quote:

I think you can still find 10x odds. The house isn't really giving anything away...it's mathematically neutral. Maybe they lose a little bit of expectation if the player backs off on his pass line betting


Take 6 -7 players all playing the right side .. take equal numbers playing the "Dark Side" all corresponding bets and no prop bets [except at good tables we make bets for the dealers].. money simply moves from one set of friends to another ... drink lots of ETOH on the house ... sometimes the red coats get involved but not always ..




I play blackjack like there is no tomorrow at the casinos..but I've ALWAYS wanted to learn craps...my brother in law explained it to me last weekend at my brothers bachelor party, and my head about exlpoded..

_____________________________

Life is tough. The sooner you realize that, the easier it will be.

Currently chasing three kids around the Midwest.

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Post #: 12637
RE: Wound my heart with a monotonous languor - 7/30/2013 9:21:32 PM   
BBfanboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sprior

Royal Machines basic training http://mattaustinimages.wordpress.com/2013/07/26/behind-the-scenes-look-at-the-royal-marines-training-camp-at-lympstone-devon-photographed-by-matt-austin/

Reminds me a lot of boot camp too. Except we didn't have a chambermaid to look after our bunks like the RMs do!






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Post #: 12638
RE: Wound my heart with a monotonous languor - 7/30/2013 9:52:26 PM   
Cap Mandrake


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Crackaces


quote:

I think you can still find 10x odds. The house isn't really giving anything away...it's mathematically neutral. Maybe they lose a little bit of expectation if the player backs off on his pass line betting


Take 6 -7 players all playing the right side .. take equal numbers playing the "Dark Side" all corresponding bets and no prop bets [except at good tables we make bets for the dealers].. money simply moves from one set of friends to another ... drink lots of ETOH on the house ... sometimes the red coats get involved but not always ..




Not making undisciplined propostion or place bets does indeed reduce the house advantage but short of actual theft or the casino serving up $2000 a bottle cognac, they STILL make money on the scenario you desribe (because of the "bar" numbers on the dark side bets..they collect the Come line bets on 2 or 12 without paying the Don't Come bettors). Essentialy you are describing a "zero-risk" table for the house.

Of course, they would rather everyone get drunk and and start betting like...well...drunks.

(in reply to Crackaces)
Post #: 12639
RE: Wound my heart with a monotonous languor - 7/30/2013 10:27:22 PM   
sprior


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From: Portsmouth, UK
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy


Reminds me a lot of boot camp too. Except we didn't have a chambermaid to look after our bunks like the RMs do!







I dare you to say that to his face!

_____________________________

"Grown ups are what's left when skool is finished."
"History started badly and hav been geting steadily worse."
- Nigel Molesworth.



(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 12640
RE: Wound my heart with a monotonous languor - 7/30/2013 10:40:50 PM   
Cap Mandrake


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sprior


quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy


Reminds me a lot of boot camp too. Except we didn't have a chambermaid to look after our bunks like the RMs do!







I dare you to say that to his face!


Yeah, I'd like to see that myself.

Heavily armoured cranium, 8% Neanderthal genome neck, sloping trapezius, Popeye arms.


Hell, you could charge admission.

(in reply to sprior)
Post #: 12641
RE: Wound my heart with a monotonous languor - 7/31/2013 1:35:13 AM   
poodlebrain

 

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The reduction in the house advantage is pretty sensitive to the maximum odds. On a $5 pass line bet backed with a maximum odds bet on a come out roll of 6, the house advantage goes from 5.5556% with 2x odds to 1.5152% with 10x odds and 0.1650% with 100x odds.

What does this really mean? If you play long enough the house advantage will eventually result in the player going broke. It should just take longer for the player to do so at a higher odds table. Jack Binion used to preach giving the players the best odds possible to prolong their entertainment. He knew he would eventually get all of their money, but they would come back because they got more entertainment than they would get at competing casinos with lower odds.

(in reply to Cap Mandrake)
Post #: 12642
RE: Wound my heart with a monotonous languor - 7/31/2013 1:57:15 AM   
Cap Mandrake


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quote:

ORIGINAL: poodlebrain

The reduction in the house advantage is pretty sensitive to the maximum odds. On a $5 pass line bet backed with a maximum odds bet on a come out roll of 6, the house advantage goes from 5.5556% with 2x odds to 1.5152% with 10x odds and 0.1650% with 100x odds.

What does this really mean? If you play long enough the house advantage will eventually result in the player going broke. It should just take longer for the player to do so at a higher odds table. Jack Binion used to preach giving the players the best odds possible to prolong their entertainment. He knew he would eventually get all of their money, but they would come back because they got more entertainment than they would get at competing casinos with lower odds.



Sure, as a percentage of the total wagered (including the odds) that analysis is correct but the house NEVER makes money on the odds in the long run as they are mathematically true. In a sense, the odds are a bait which jumps onto the house's hook and for which they pay nothing.

My point is that going from 2x Odds to 10x Odds only hurts the house's expected take if it causes the players to make a smaller volume of Pass Line and Come bets (it usually does the opposite) or slows the game turnover down (it doesnt really). The house avoids this by adjusting the minimum bet to how busy the casino is.

You could say that 10x allows the players to wager more with lower losses and it would usually be true but only if they do not increase their pass line betting or get swept up in the excitment and start making proposition bets.

(in reply to poodlebrain)
Post #: 12643
RE: Wound my heart with a monotonous languor - 7/31/2013 12:00:22 PM   
Itdepends

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake
Heavily armoured cranium, 8% Neanderthal genome neck, sloping trapezius, Popeye arms.
Hell, you could charge admission.

I'm obviously playing World of Tanks too much between slow turns. I know what you wrote but what my brain translated was
Heavily armoured turret, sloping front glacis, big guns

(in reply to Cap Mandrake)
Post #: 12644
RE: Wound my heart with a monotonous languor - 7/31/2013 2:39:18 PM   
Crackaces


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quote:

Not making undisciplined propostion or place bets does indeed reduce the house advantage but short of actual theft or the casino serving up $2000 a bottle cognac, they STILL make money on the scenario you [describe] (because of the "bar" numbers on the dark side bets..they collect the Come line bets on 2 or 12 without paying the Don't Come bettors). Essentialy you are describing a "zero-risk" table for the house.



Actually the Dark Siders get their bet back for "boxcars" on a Come out roll and not get paid 1-1, [Don't] Come out rolls of 2 & 3 are still paid .. With Odds Over time you are quite right that the house has a 1% - 2% advantage that comes from the Dark Side in our craps tours ... but do not tell the darksiders ..

quote:

Of course, they would rather everyone get drunk and and start betting like...well...drunks.


The object of the "the Official ADB Darkside Craps Crawl" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BARGE)
is to be the last person standing. Win at least a dollar, drink at least one drink, and move to the next casino downtown along Fremont Street. Early Players drop out due to getting so far behind they cannot win enough to get back positive, and later in the tour the ETOH takes its toll .. with a 1% house edge and most players risking about 1K given the house edge it equates to about $10 of risk per player for the group some do much better many do much worse due to variation [see below] However,....given bar rates for drinks . I would most certainly propose that much more than $10 per player on average is consumed ...we are not talking about $4K cognac but house well drinks ...

However, winners have been obligated to share $4,000 cognac with the group ...

quote:

The reduction in the house advantage is pretty sensitive to the maximum odds. On a $5 pass line bet backed with a maximum odds bet on a come out roll of 6, the house advantage goes from 5.5556% with 2x odds to 1.5152% with 10x odds and 0.1650% with 100x odds.

What does this really mean? If you play long enough the house advantage will eventually result in the player going broke. It should just take longer for the player to do so at a higher odds table. Jack Binion used to preach giving the players the best odds possible to prolong their entertainment. He knew he would eventually get all of their money, but they would come back because they got more entertainment than they would get at competing casinos with lower odds.


I might suggest that what this really means is a lot of variation to regress to the mean. To achieve 100X odds on a $5 bet means risking $500 on one come out roll/point or "7-out" to at most win 2-1 and at least 6-5 true odds. The average vacationer does not want to risk the wide variation it takes to eventually regress toward the mean of 0.1650% ... Thus the average Joe hits it big and then loses it thinking they are on roll.. or loses it .. this particular gimmick only works for the player if one is playing way under ones bankroll ..and for example 100x odds was not available for $0.25 craps ..


_____________________________

"What gets us into trouble is not what we don't know. It's what we know for sure that just ain't so"

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Post #: 12645
RE: Wound my heart with a monotonous languor - 7/31/2013 3:00:07 PM   
sprior


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I went to the supermarket to buy some wine and all I got was the clap




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_____________________________

"Grown ups are what's left when skool is finished."
"History started badly and hav been geting steadily worse."
- Nigel Molesworth.



(in reply to Crackaces)
Post #: 12646
RE: Wound my heart with a monotonous languor - 7/31/2013 3:03:39 PM   
zuluhour


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appears to be a new strain of French clap. One may want to rinse with....

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Post #: 12647
RE: Wound my heart with a monotonous languor - 7/31/2013 3:20:08 PM   
Cap Mandrake


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Crackaces

Actually the Dark Siders get their bet back for "boxcars" on a Come out roll and not get paid 1-1, [Don't] Come out rolls of 2 & 3 are still paid .. With Odds Over time you are quite right that the house has a 1% - 2% advantage that comes from the Dark Side in our craps tours ... but do not tell the darksiders ..


Some houses "bar" two numbers, maybe 2 and 3? I am sure you are right about the 12. I never play it. It's the "push" when you should be winning that is the house advantage for the "dark side" bettors. You are two kind with the term "dark side" I despise those little, sweaty, 120lb bastards who walk up to a table full of noisy and happy guys and gals with thousands of dollars on the numbers and put down a red chip on Don't Come. Doing it as a group to have fun is different.

Good point about the "element of ruin" discussion on 100x odds too. At $500 a bet you have a bad run and you are down $5000 and then the $3.99 "steak" and eggs deal at 3 AM doesn't seem like such a good deal anymore.

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Post #: 12648
RE: Wound my heart with a monotonous languor - 7/31/2013 3:23:31 PM   
Cap Mandrake


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sprior

I went to the supermarket to buy some wine and all I got was the clap






It's in Frengrish. Don't buy it. You will be obliged to go see the Scab Lifters and suffer that horrible sounding treatment mentioned in the 4th Rotor.

(in reply to sprior)
Post #: 12649
RE: Wound my heart with a monotonous languor - 7/31/2013 3:27:16 PM   
Cap Mandrake


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From: Southern California
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Itdepends

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake
Heavily armoured cranium, 8% Neanderthal genome neck, sloping trapezius, Popeye arms.
Hell, you could charge admission.

I'm obviously playing World of Tanks too much between slow turns. I know what you wrote but what my brain translated was
Heavily armoured turret, sloping front glacis, big guns


I'm sure you have.

Addressing that guy in the picture as "young lady" or "miss" would certainly be like taking on a Pershing with a Type II Super Ronson with a leaky fuel line.

(in reply to Itdepends)
Post #: 12650
RE: Wound my heart with a monotonous languor - 7/31/2013 3:28:06 PM   
Cap Mandrake


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What were we talking about? Oh yeah, the war.

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Post #: 12651
RE: Wound my heart with a monotonous languor - 7/31/2013 3:29:33 PM   
Chickenboy


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From: San Antonio, TX
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake
$3.99 "steak" and eggs


It's perfectly reasonable to refer to this as steak. Which species the cut is taken from is an unnecessary fine print distraction at 3am.

_____________________________


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Post #: 12652
RE: Wound my heart with a monotonous languor - 7/31/2013 3:33:44 PM   
sprior


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

What were we talking about? Oh yeah, the war.


Listen, don't mention the war! I mentioned it once, but I think I got away with it all right.

_____________________________

"Grown ups are what's left when skool is finished."
"History started badly and hav been geting steadily worse."
- Nigel Molesworth.



(in reply to Cap Mandrake)
Post #: 12653
RE: Wound my heart with a monotonous languor - 7/31/2013 3:43:42 PM   
Cap Mandrake


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From: Southern California
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Prane rosses. Most of them WJD variety, but they did manage to sink Prince William and an AVP, the baaahstards. Nasau is at %45 flotation damage pierside at Butuan. She should be OK if we put some fighters there. Of course, that means they will attack somewhere else. We lost some Beauforts, some TBF's that went down with Prince William and some B-25's. Fighter losses were wildly in our favor.

Some staff flunkie retard screwed up the prep destinations for the troops landing at Aparri.




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RE: Wound my heart with a monotonous languor - 7/31/2013 4:52:57 PM   
BBfanboy


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You were using P-40Bs? Man, that is really scraping the bottom of the pool!

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

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Post #: 12655
RE: Wound my heart with a monotonous languor - 7/31/2013 4:58:51 PM   
Chickenboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

You were using P-40Bs? Man, that is really scraping the bottom of the pool!


You think the Arries are scraping the bottom of the barrel? Well you're right...but still...look at the airframes JJ is using.

Ki-48IIa's in quantity in mid-1943? A6M2 as frontline fighter in mid-1943? I'm pleased to see some A6M3a's in the mix now (at least 6 months late, but hey-better late than never), but I think (and have for some time) that there was some major issue with the Japanese R&D and mid-war plane development / deployment.

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RE: Wound my heart with a monotonous languor - 7/31/2013 5:20:57 PM   
Cap Mandrake


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

You were using P-40Bs? Man, that is really scraping the bottom of the pool!



I resent that remark! We are definitely NOT "scraping the bottom of the barrel" as you say. We did that already, several months ago as a matter of fact. We have now disassembled the barrel to see if we find a P-39 or two in between the staves.

The P-40B is an F-16 compared to the stuff we have in the South Pacific. Even Pearl has only one squadron of P-40E's and some F4F's.



< Message edited by Cap Mandrake -- 7/31/2013 5:23:23 PM >

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Post #: 12657
RE: Wound my heart with a monotonous languor - 7/31/2013 5:26:03 PM   
sprior


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Don't mention the Boomerangs on Batan Island.

_____________________________

"Grown ups are what's left when skool is finished."
"History started badly and hav been geting steadily worse."
- Nigel Molesworth.



(in reply to Cap Mandrake)
Post #: 12658
RE: Wound my heart with a monotonous languor - 7/31/2013 5:26:17 PM   
Cap Mandrake


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It would appear that WJD LBA (incruding Idas) from all the bases we bypassed in Mindanao, Leyte and Luzon and the threat of the Mongol Horde at Lingayen will slow us down for a bit.

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Post #: 12659
RE: Wound my heart with a monotonous languor - 7/31/2013 5:29:43 PM   
Cap Mandrake


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sprior

Don't mention the Boomerangs on Batan Island.


I won't say anything if you don't. It might "come back" to haunt us.

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Post #: 12660
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