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RE: Chesty....not Puller - 10/10/2010 3:16:17 PM   
rtrapasso


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nemo121

witpqs,

Once a bit of brain is eaten away then, generally speaking, that's it. Could you survive? Yes but with lots of functionality lost.

The brain exhibits amazing "plasticity" in function (yes, it's a medical word), especially in the young... there have been case where 1/2 the brain has been lost but the patient recovered without noticeable deficit... much depends on the speed of the injury in most cases... patients can have slowly growing tumors in the cranial cavity that reach alarming size without much in the way of symptoms. In several cases i've seen, the patient may actually die due to the brain being pushed out of the skull before anyone realizes anything goes wrong ("uncal herniation" = fatal).

< Message edited by rtrapasso -- 10/10/2010 7:27:20 PM >

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RE: Chesty....not Puller - 10/10/2010 3:28:16 PM   
witpqs


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quote:

ORIGINAL: princep01

Looking at the above pictorial of Burma and China, could someone explain why the Japanese units are pinkish in some cases and a deep red in others. Is this some sort of visual aid in supply status or strength? I've never been able to learn what that means. Thanks and sorry for the intrusion on your excellent AAR.


I think it's (deeper hue) supposed to mean that the units are more deeply entrenched (fortified).

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Post #: 2072
RE: Chesty....not Puller - 10/10/2010 3:30:04 PM   
witpqs


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nemo121

witpqs,

Once a bit of brain is eaten away then, generally speaking, that's it. Could you survive? Yes but with lots of functionality lost.

The brain exhibits amazing "plasticity" in function (yes, it's a medical word), especially in the young... there have been case where 1/2 the brain has been lost but the patient recovered without noticeable deficit... much depends on the speed of the injury in most cases... patients can have slowly growing tumors in the cranial cavity that reach alarming size without much in the way of symptoms. In several cases i've seen, the patient may actually die due to the brain being pushed out of the skull before anyone realizes anything was wrong ("uncal herniation" = fatal).


Thanks, Bob.

Nemo, in addition to what Bob mentioned (which I knew but perhaps not to that extent) I also meant if even discovered when mild.

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RE: Chesty....not Puller - 10/10/2010 3:37:05 PM   
sprior


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quote:

I think it's (deeper hue) supposed to mean that the units are more deeply entrenched (fortified).


I thought it was detection levels.

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"History started badly and hav been geting steadily worse."
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Post #: 2074
RE: Chesty....not Puller - 10/10/2010 3:39:10 PM   
sprior


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quote:

Thanks and sorry for the intrusion on your excellent AAR.


Please ask away, we don't know it all/much* either.

*Again, delete that which does not apply.

_____________________________

"Grown ups are what's left when skool is finished."
"History started badly and hav been geting steadily worse."
- Nigel Molesworth.



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Post #: 2075
RE: Chesty....not Puller - 10/10/2010 4:06:25 PM   
Nemo121


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Re: brain damage - aka ABI - aquired brain injury

Plasticity is a feature of the brain but it is dependent on:
a) age - the younger the more plastic,
b) extent of injury - the less the injury the easier to compensate
c) rapidity of injury - the slower the injury and less catastrophic in nature the more plasticity occurs in which other elements of the brain take over portions of the function of the damaged portion of the brain
d) rehab - for plasticity to occur you need to practice whatever it is you seek to recover. With practice more is recovered then without practice although this is a bit shaded by practice also allowing existing neurons to "do more with less" without plasticity becoming involved.
e) the area damaged. A pontine CVA rarely, if ever, has much recovery, grey and white matter infarcts in the temporo-parietal regions have a better prognosis although even then some significant deficits will still remain. E.g You might recover your hearing but you might still go psychotic.

witpqs,
Believe it or not what you saw above was relatively mild. I've seen brains ( post-mortem ) with holes the size of golf balls throughout. Once treated an Eastern European man who had undiagnosed cerebral TB which essentially ate away his entire frontal lobe - where your executive functioning and personality are based - and, over the course of 4 days, turned from an adult 30some year old male into the equivalent of a 3 or 4 year old with no power of speech, no ability to toilet himself etc. The CT Brain showed the replacement of the frontal lobes with a ball of pus. Pretty horrific thing to see. Even worse when I had to break it to his wife and kid. Wife had no english, it was an emergency so I had to use the 10 year old kid to translate for me. Pretty sure he'll be traumatised for life "Tell your mother your father's brain has been eaten and he WILL die. " *sigh*

Basically if you can actually see a lesion on the brain with the naked eye in a post-mortem shot like that then you can be pretty sure it wasn't a mild injury. It isn't a perfect rule of thumb but it is pretty good.

Also, if you are looking to determine whether or not something will impact intellect then look at the outer portion of the brain, the 0.5cm closest to the surface. That's where "grey matter" lies. If you find damage there then you are losing stuff which is very hard to replace as that stuff is what "thinks" and decides on actions and movements. As you go deeper you get into white matter which is, essentially, lots of pipelines carrying the data from the grey matter to the spine where it can get transmitted. If you've got damage in the white matter and you can reroute the signals ( not easy but possible ) then you've got no loss of function. If they grey matter is FUBAR then plasticity comes into play but, really, I wouldn't be hopeful.

Interestingly a particular stroke in a particular portion of the white matter where all the motor pipelines pass throughleads to locked in syndrome. All your intellect is preserved, your sensation is preserved, you just can't move a muscle. *shudder*. That's real voluntary euthanasia territory for me.

< Message edited by Nemo121 -- 10/10/2010 4:09:54 PM >


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RE: Chesty....not Puller - 10/10/2010 4:19:33 PM   
VSWG


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quote:

ORIGINAL: princep01

Looking at the above pictorial of Burma and China, could someone explain why the Japanese units are pinkish in some cases and a deep red in others. Is this some sort of visual aid in supply status or strength? I've never been able to learn what that means. Thanks and sorry for the intrusion on your excellent AAR.

Darker color = more troops

_____________________________


(in reply to princep01)
Post #: 2077
RE: Chesty....not Puller - 10/10/2010 5:01:03 PM   
Chickenboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nemo121

witpqs,

Once a bit of brain is eaten away then, generally speaking, that's it. Could you survive? Yes but with lots of functionality lost.

Far as I know, the cerebrum, in particular has a lot of residual reserve. Many people with sizeable brain tumors, cysticercoid cysts, etc. make complete functional recoveries. It is an unusual and strange organ in that sense.

_____________________________


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Post #: 2078
RE: Chesty....not Puller - 10/10/2010 5:37:03 PM   
Nemo121


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Ah but brain tumours grow and PRESS on brain tissue, once you cut out the tumour and relieve the pressure the brain can recover because it was the pressure which stopped that bit of the brain working. That portion of the brain wasn't destroyed, just rendered disabled due to pressure.

Same thing with cysts.

Worms, on the other hand, eat and destroy brain tissues. That's a major difference. Something which creates pressure on other bits of the brain can be removed and one should expect almost full recovery. Once a bit of brain is actually destroyed though, that's a different story.

_____________________________

John Dillworth: "I had GreyJoy check my spelling and he said it was fine."
Well, that's that settled then.

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Post #: 2079
RE: Chesty....not Puller - 10/10/2010 7:04:35 PM   
rtrapasso


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nemo121

Ah but brain tumours grow and PRESS on brain tissue, once you cut out the tumour and relieve the pressure the brain can recover because it was the pressure which stopped that bit of the brain working. That portion of the brain wasn't destroyed, just rendered disabled due to pressure.

Same thing with cysts.

Worms, on the other hand, eat and destroy brain tissues. That's a major difference. Something which creates pressure on other bits of the brain can be removed and one should expect almost full recovery. Once a bit of brain is actually destroyed though, that's a different story.

i would disagree... again, there are well documented cases where an entire cerebral HEMISPHERE was removed surgically, and the patient made a full recovery (children, yes, but even adults can show amazing recovery even when large chunks of the cerebral cortex are destroyed).

Similarly, patients can sustain gunshot wounds to the head where large chunks of grey matter are destroyed acutely, and still recover without residual... i am not saying this is COMMON (it is actually rare), but it does occur.

Also, i don't think Cysticercus worms actually "eat" the brain: they are walled off in encapsulated cysts and grow slowly absorbing nutrients from the blood, iirc.


< Message edited by rtrapasso -- 10/10/2010 7:09:32 PM >

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RE: Chesty....not Puller - 10/10/2010 7:08:13 PM   
Chickenboy


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I'm sure Cap'n is uninterested in debating the threshhold for 'pressure necrosis' or ability of space occupying masses to cause regional ischemic necrosis in densely vascularized organs, such as the brain. True 'nuff-these are not neoplastic malignancies, but having a space occupying mass in one's head will, over time, cause bad things to occur.

Yes, cysticercosis (a life stage of Taenia) are encysted worms, just little babies. I hear you about a different mechanism of action versus something like a visceral larval migrans (e.g. Baylisascaris spp.) and a probable different prognostic outcome. You want a scary outcome? Check out the neuroencephalitis outcomes with B. procyonis. This disease rises to the 'just shoot me now' level for me.

Sorry for the hijack, Cap'n. But noggin' parasites are quite interesting. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

_____________________________


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RE: Chesty....not Puller - 10/10/2010 7:16:59 PM   
rtrapasso


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quote:

I hear you about a different mechanism of action versus something like a visceral larval migrans (e.g. Baylisascaris spp.) and a probable different prognostic outcome. You want a scary outcome? Check out the neuroencephalitis outcomes with B. procyonis. This disease rises to the 'just shoot me now' level for me.


If something is growing in your brain and you can't make it stop (whether it is a virus, a worm, an amoebic organism, or a tumor), this is pretty much a bad thing...

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RE: Chesty....not Puller - 10/10/2010 8:09:29 PM   
Grollub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: VSWG


quote:

ORIGINAL: princep01

Looking at the above pictorial of Burma and China, could someone explain why the Japanese units are pinkish in some cases and a deep red in others. Is this some sort of visual aid in supply status or strength? I've never been able to learn what that means. Thanks and sorry for the intrusion on your excellent AAR.

Darker color = more troops

Correct. The manual says on p.50; "Note that for ground units, airfields and anchor symbols, darker colors indicate either more or stronger forces, while lighter indicate fewer or weaker units."

_____________________________

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Post #: 2083
RE: Chesty....not Puller - 10/10/2010 8:33:33 PM   
witpqs


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This is quite interesting because now I understand something - my sister has for years been convinced that my brother-in-law functions with no brain at all!

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RE: Chesty....not Puller - 10/10/2010 9:10:26 PM   
princep01

 

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Thank you responders re the color variations on the land combat units.

As to the brain stuff, I had no idea that so many brain surgeons played war games. Amazing.

If I might take up a little more space on your AAR, I am having trouble working the Polit training thing witht he Allies. I have most of it down, but am curious about how to "see" which pilots are available in the various categories, TRANCOM and General Reserve? Is there a way to look at those categories to see who is available?

Finally, as a squadron nears its withdrawal date, I keep expecting the withdraw option to light up, but it just does not. I end up "disbanding" the unit. Does this satisfy the withdrawal requirement?

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RE: Chesty....not Puller - 10/10/2010 9:24:36 PM   
Mynok


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I know of no brain surgeons here....just a pathologist, a psychiatrist and a veterinarian.


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RE: Chesty....not Puller - 10/10/2010 9:35:46 PM   
witpqs


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And Cap is a pediatrician (right?).

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RE: Chesty....not Puller - 10/10/2010 9:58:53 PM   
rtrapasso


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quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

And Cap is a pediatrician (right?).


So he has said...

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RE: Chesty....not Puller - 10/10/2010 10:05:50 PM   
Nemo121


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rtrapasso,

Well there are exceptions to every situation. As someone who once worked on a stroke rehab unit for a year though I am comfortable that the simplified view ( hence the use of "eat" vs an explanation of cyst formation etc etc ) presented herein is reasonably accurate. If you get worms in your brain then, sure, maybe you have a 1 in 10,000 shot of full function if your brain looks like swiss cheese. On the other hand that's damned unlikely.

There will always be outliers but, for me, if someone tells me I have worms in my brain then I ain't expecting to be the 1 in 10,000 who still retains full function. Life just doesn't work that way.


Out of interest, who is the pathologist?

There's also an orthopaedic surgeon here too. Not sure I can "out" him though. It isn't that he wouldn't mind us knowing he's an orthopaedic surgeon but if the other orthopods ever realised he used his frontal cortex he'd have to requalify as something else . Ah, Orthopods, proving there IS life after lobotomy

< Message edited by Nemo121 -- 10/10/2010 10:06:57 PM >


_____________________________

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Well, that's that settled then.

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RE: Chesty....not Puller - 10/10/2010 10:11:28 PM   
witpqs


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Ironic you ask Bob who is the pathologist...


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RE: Chesty....not Puller - 10/10/2010 10:22:38 PM   
Chickenboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mynok


I know of no brain surgeons here....just a pathologist, a psychiatrist and a veterinarian.


I'm two of those. Not into behavior though.

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RE: Chesty....not Puller - 10/10/2010 10:35:30 PM   
Nemo121


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Hehe, I thought it might be him but wasn't about to make an assumption.


Chickenboy,
A pathological veterinarian eh?

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Well, that's that settled then.

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RE: Chesty....not Puller - 10/10/2010 10:56:32 PM   
Chickenboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nemo121

Hehe, I thought it might be him but wasn't about to make an assumption.


Chickenboy,
A pathological veterinarian eh?

Hey, watch it....that's veterinary pathologist, bub. (Focus on poultry as subspecialty.)

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RE: Chesty....not Puller - 10/10/2010 11:26:33 PM   
sprior


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quote:

Finally, as a squadron nears its withdrawal date, I keep expecting the withdraw option to light up, but it just does not. I end up "disbanding" the unit. Does this satisfy the withdrawal requirement?


No, disbanding and withdrawing are 2 seperate functions. If a unit is due to withdraw then you should withdraw it.

_____________________________

"Grown ups are what's left when skool is finished."
"History started badly and hav been geting steadily worse."
- Nigel Molesworth.



(in reply to princep01)
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RE: Chesty....not Puller - 10/10/2010 11:31:42 PM   
rtrapasso


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nemo121

Hehe, I thought it might be him but wasn't about to make an assumption.


Chickenboy,
A pathological veterinarian eh?

Hey, watch it....that's veterinary pathologist, bub. (Focus on poultry as subspecialty.)

i'm a pathologist, focusing on humans as a subspecialty...

Actually, i did General Pathology for 15 years* (including neuropathology, and some forensic path), now doing Gastrointestinal Pathology (for the past 15 years).

EDIT: *After medical school and residency.

< Message edited by rtrapasso -- 10/10/2010 11:32:52 PM >

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RE: Chesty....not Puller - 10/11/2010 12:16:10 AM   
Cap Mandrake


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sprior

quote:

Finally, as a squadron nears its withdrawal date, I keep expecting the withdraw option to light up, but it just does not. I end up "disbanding" the unit. Does this satisfy the withdrawal requirement?


No, disbanding and withdrawing are 2 seperate functions. If a unit is due to withdraw then you should withdraw it.


This is true but there are times when the withdraw option is greyed out on a unit due for withdrawal. It all seems very mysterious. I have had some success arranging fresh basil leaves in a hexagonal pattern around the monitor.

Using disband does seem to avoid the penalty but I would have to say the jury is out on whether it might cause the end of the world in 2012 when the Mayan calender runs out.

BTW disbanding early does not give a point bonus like "bonus for early withdrawal"*

* Under no circumstances should one use the principle of "early withdrawal" in any other walks of life. You will get a really bad reputation and may have trouble getting dates.



< Message edited by Cap Mandrake -- 10/11/2010 12:18:29 AM >

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RE: Chesty....not Puller - 10/11/2010 12:44:59 AM   
Nemo121


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Lol!! I find it amusing how this 2012 thing has entered the consciousness. it Is so occidentally-centric and utterly ignores the fact that the Maya viewed time as cyclical. Never did they say that there wouldn't be another long cycle after 2012. 2012 is just the end of one of their long cycles and will mark the beginning of another. It isn't the end of time.

Hell, according to the Maya each short cycle had a theme and the one which finishes in 2012 was a repeat of a disastrous earlier cycle with mass famine and death. This current cycle includes the two world wars so if we are going to believe the Mayas not only will the world not end in 2012 but there will be fewer large wars in the next cycle. There will be a lot of societal change and some revolution though although whether that'll be cultural or physical is anyone's guess.

Bottom line though this view of things having a beginning and finite end is very western. The mayans wee all about cycles. It is amusing to see all various authors etc about 2012 missing this very basic, fundamental point.

< Message edited by Nemo121 -- 10/11/2010 12:45:27 AM >


_____________________________

John Dillworth: "I had GreyJoy check my spelling and he said it was fine."
Well, that's that settled then.

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RE: Chesty....not Puller - 10/11/2010 1:31:45 AM   
Cap Mandrake


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In regard to the Mexican teen with the cysticercus in the subarachnoid space, we did a myleogram. He had about 15 cysts up and down his spinal canal. We called a muk-i-muk at CDC and they agreed to send us some Praziquantel. The next morning, he woke up with no fever and no headache ate two breakfast trays then his dad signed him out and they went back to Mexico without any meds.

Estoooopeeed gringos....hahahaha.

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Post #: 2098
RE: Chesty....not Puller - 10/11/2010 2:08:44 AM   
pws1225

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nemo121

Lol!! I find it amusing how this 2012 thing has entered the consciousness. it Is so occidentally-centric and utterly ignores the fact that the Maya viewed time as cyclical. Never did they say that there wouldn't be another long cycle after 2012. 2012 is just the end of one of their long cycles and will mark the beginning of another. It isn't the end of time.

Hell, according to the Maya each short cycle had a theme and the one which finishes in 2012 was a repeat of a disastrous earlier cycle with mass famine and death. This current cycle includes the two world wars so if we are going to believe the Mayas not only will the world not end in 2012 but there will be fewer large wars in the next cycle. There will be a lot of societal change and some revolution though although whether that'll be cultural or physical is anyone's guess.

Bottom line though this view of things having a beginning and finite end is very western. The mayans wee all about cycles. It is amusing to see all various authors etc about 2012 missing this very basic, fundamental point.


2012. It's Y2K, Mayan style! Not so bad. Anybody seen my khat?

(in reply to Nemo121)
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RE: Chesty....not Puller - 10/11/2010 2:15:09 AM   
Moondawggie


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quote:



I know of no brain surgeons here....just a pathologist, a psychiatrist and a veterinarian.

Out of interest, who is the pathologist?

There's also an orthopaedic surgeon here too. Not sure I can "out" him though. It isn't that he wouldn't mind us knowing he's an orthopaedic surgeon but if the other orthopods ever realised he used his frontal cortex he'd have to requalify as something else . Ah, Orthopods, proving there IS life after lobotomy


Hey! Don't leave out the Radiation Oncologists here! (Of course, the last case of misdiagnosed "cerebral cysticercosis" I personally saw turned out to be widely metastatic small cell lung carcinoma involving the brain. Didn't end well, either.)

Are you sure you know an Orthopedist who can actually handle the complexity of WITP AE? It ain't radiation physics, but it's damn near close (and just as frustrating!)

Mandrake, why did you have to bring up helminthic infections of the central nervous system in the first place? Does Milo sense a new business opportunity here? Perhaps Albendazole's chemical precursors can only be obtained from plants native to Fiji?

_____________________________

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General George Pickett, the night before Gettysburg

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