Just played a turn where multiple units of dauntless were finding (via search) a convoy I had parked over an island. The scrolling progress doesnt say they were hit or anything as the turn plays through but after the turns done The ships are listed as sunk sunk ships display by 500lb bombs Is this tactic considered gamey? I mean, searches arent intercepted by my CAP, the direction from which they came is not shown and there doesnt seem to be a way to defend against this. Has anybody made a house rule to limit this perhaps by setting combat aircraft to no more than 10-20% search?
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Joined: 1/14/2007 From: Menomonee Falls, Wisconsin, USA Status: offline
Do you have Fog of War (FOW) turned on? Sometimes combat reports are very inaccurate.
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Well I,m the jap and wether or not it said they were just looking or dropping bombs,there is no doubt there were two undamaged transports and during their search well... like Mr Magic says "Presto-chango!! now I have none...
Not at all gamey. Consider the spotted ships targets of opportunity. The Dauntlesses were bombed up, spotted a ship, swooped down to get an id and decided to drop a bomb on it. Quite plausible I think. ASW efforts in ww2 were done like this, fly in your patrol zone, if you spot a sub zero in on it and kill it. No doubt enemy ships spotted were also attacked. Chance of hit is I think reduced vs normal naval attack and sometimes you even get strikes on spotted CV's, well an extremely rare occurance that has only happened once in my years of Witp
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Then if its not a questionable tactic,how in game terms are you supposed to defend against this. I guess my Zero's saw them but decided that since they were just looking around that they were,nt worth the trouble I guess
CAP does work against searches, although combat animations are never shown. If you can place a large CAP over your TF, then when you check the aircraft losses screen next turn you will often see kills. Small, one-aircraft elements sneaking up on your forces will always be hard to stop completely though.
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Zigurat666
Just played a turn where multiple units of dauntless were finding (via search) a convoy I had parked over an island. The scrolling progress doesnt say they were hit or anything as the turn plays through but after the turns done The ships are listed as sunk sunk ships display by 500lb bombs Is this tactic considered gamey? I mean, searches arent intercepted by my CAP, the direction from which they came is not shown and there doesnt seem to be a way to defend against this. Has anybody made a house rule to limit this perhaps by setting combat aircraft to no more than 10-20% search?
nav search with divebombers in AE seem to result in a hell a lot of ships sunk, if you have enough bombers on nav search, you don´t need a nav strike to sink some merchants. Am experiencing this against my PBEM opponent, when 95% of the ships in range of KB actually got sunk by nav search...
my experience so far is that nav search is VERY effective, don´t know about the nav search settings of my opponent though.
Try using high exp NS with long range like a Nell In my previous WITP game several ships with a huge amount of CAP were hit by these lone rangers who otherwise would not have got through - fair enough I suppose.
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quote:
ORIGINAL: castor troy my experience so far is that nav search is VERY effective, don´t know about the nav search settings of my opponent though.
To answer your question, my typical nav search settings are 20%. I never went higher than 30% and that was when I had to wade through your sub infestation off the Australian coast.
Then if its not a questionable tactic,how in game terms are you supposed to defend against this. I guess my Zero's saw them but decided that since they were just looking around that they were,nt worth the trouble I guess
You sometimes get the message in blue text that search plane has been destroyed by CAP
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1966 was a great year for English Football...Eric was born
It can happen in real life. At the start of the battle of Santa Cruz (Oct '42) a couple of SBD's on search from the Enterprise came across the IJN carrier Zuiho and dropped a pair of 500-pounder bombs on the aft end of its flight deck, rendering it incapable of retrieving any aircraft and effectively knocking it out of the battle.
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Rainer79
quote:
ORIGINAL: castor troy my experience so far is that nav search is VERY effective, don´t know about the nav search settings of my opponent though.
To answer your question, my typical nav search settings are 20%. I never went higher than 30% and that was when I had to wade through your sub infestation off the Australian coast.
which is what I´ve thought as it would be quite bold to have most of the dbs on nav search when you try tried to hunt down my carriers. I would call nav search too effective then. Far too effective. All my transports near the North Australian coast and every single AK that was near KB later on got sunk from nav search only. There were even some nav strikes but those went in against ships that were already dead from hits during the search phase.
boy, far too effective when 100% of the ships are spotted and 90% went down immedietely after taking multiple hits from nav search.
I've seen reports of ships attacked by my DB's on naval search but didn't know if it was FOW or reality. Sometimes I'd get airstrikes launched against these sightings and sometimes I wouldn't, even if it was just single ship sightings. The # of times I've seen "patrol planes shot down by CAP" appear to be few and far between though.
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Joined: 9/11/2007 From: new milford, ct Status: offline
quote:
I mean, searches arent intercepted by my CAP
I have had many search planes shot down by CAP. The CV divebomber is also the search plane for US CV's. Early in the war they have one squadron dedicated to search.
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Hence the old working title 'VS' - the dive bombers were originally there for scouting/intelligence/recce ahead of the 'grand fleet'. Of course, nobody failed to realise at the time other than a few far-sighted officers on Yamamoto's staff that carriers were now becoming the capital ships of WWII...
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Yes, CAP does intercept search planes. Yes, plenty of search planes get thru (hense your frustration).
Historically, yes, they did arm the VS-squadrons (divebombers on CVs) with a 500# bomb. The intent was that, if the DB found an enemy carrier, it would radio it's position. The DB would then make it's attack, hopefully damaging the flight deck of the CV, thus prohibiting a return strike by the enemy CV (all the while, the alpha-strike from the Allied carrier was on it's way).
Do there seem to be quite a few hits that you can't do anything about?
Well, that's the debate...
-F-
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I'm super frustrated trying to hit a CA TF hanging around off Koepang with about 40 A-24s carrying 1000 lbs. Several nav attack strikes with no hits. Next turn a PBY hit a CA with a torp, so I set my a-24s to nav search and got a couple hits over the course of the next turn.
Hmmm, I didn't think about that. The reduced load for PBYs is bombs, eh. I actually set PBYs on nav attack against some AKs and TBs once, they did pretty well but took some losses. I was all excited thinking the Mogami got a torp. Oh well.
I've lost five AK's in five separate events where they were docked in fairly large ports with CAP and destroyed at the end of the turn. No combat report. Just sunk - all by a fairly small bomb. Considering where they were docked, I think about the only thing that could have reached was a Mavis.
I just have this picture in my mind of everyone scratching their heads as to why the SS Schmedlap sank after an explosion. Anything on radar? No sir. Observation posts see or hear anything? No sir. What about the fighter CAP? No sir. Did any of the AA batteries surrounding the harbor hear or see anything? No sir, everything was quiet and then she just went "Boom!" Huh. Well, must have been a freak accident.
I mean, how does a Mavis waddle in unseen, sink a ship with a single small bomb, and get away? It raises the blood pressure, it does.
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quote:
ORIGINAL: byron13
I've lost five AK's in five separate events where they were docked in fairly large ports with CAP and destroyed at the end of the turn. No combat report. Just sunk - all by a fairly small bomb. Considering where they were docked, I think about the only thing that could have reached was a Mavis.
I just have this picture in my mind of everyone scratching their heads as to why the SS Schmedlap sank after an explosion. Anything on radar? No sir. Observation posts see or hear anything? No sir. What about the fighter CAP? No sir. Did any of the AA batteries surrounding the harbor hear or see anything? No sir, everything was quiet and then she just went "Boom!" Huh. Well, must have been a freak accident.
I mean, how does a Mavis waddle in unseen, sink a ship with a single small bomb, and get away? It raises the blood pressure, it does.
So this seems to be same for both sides. So far I've lost several big japanese tankers to search planes, not to mention smaller ships.
I think search planes are too good ship killers. I mean they got way more hits than planes on a naval attack mission! And basicly there's nothing player can do to stop them, I just lost docked AK when I had 40 zeros flying CAP...
I'm not saying that search planes shouldn't attack at all, but my opinion is that at the moment they got too many hits.
Understand that my beef is the attacks on ships docked in well-defended harbor. At sea would be a different matter, though I understand your beef to be that the single scouts are getting a much higher hit rate than dedicated missions. I wouldn't be surprised: my divebombers have a pathetic hit rate.
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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> Using naval search for combat purposes 
Using naval search for combat purposes - 
RE: Using naval search for combat purposes - 
I would call nav search too effective then. Far too effective. All my transports near the North Australian coast and every single AK that was near KB later on got sunk from nav search only. There were even some nav strikes but those went in against ships that were already dead from hits during the search phase. 
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