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Picked up again...but... - 2/2/2010 11:04:00 PM   
JudgeDredd


Posts: 8573
Joined: 11/14/2003
From: Scotland
Status: offline
What the hell is with the Hitler snipers everywhere!?

I mean, I know I suck. That goes without saying. But I think I'm doing the things right. I have vickers positioned in Level 2 building. I have 3 Squads and an HQ moving towards the enemy and BAM...a team is taken out by a mortar round - ONE mortar round...meanwhile, my mortar squad can't hit within 100 yards of where I direct them...even when the enemy unit is visible....so am I to presume that mortar without LoS to the enemy is a waste? Because they seriously can't hit crap.

Just tried the Merville scenario - and I remember playing this some time ago and it's exactly the reason I put the game down then...Merville is like a hornets nest. No matter what I do, I barely get inside and if I do, it's with a smashed unit. Eventually the same situation - lost.

What do I do to deserve the loss?
1. Position my single mortar unit far back (although seriously - why bother having one at all)
2. Position one of my units (HQ, 1 Bren, 1 Rifle and AirLdg Squad) to the left, same in the middle and same to the right
3. Sneak my units on the left over and take the firat VL
4. Sneak my units on the right to the VL to the right at the building and position a Vickers squad in the Level 2 building
5. Send a squad down to the far right to get the VL there
6. Move the 2 squads on the left (keep the other two (HQ and AirLdg squad) on overwatch) to get the Strongpoint VL - half are taken out by an 88
7. Move an AirLdg and Rifle squad on the right towards the house near the entrance - half are taken out by mortar and unseen enemy


All the while this is going on, I'm receiving direct and accurate fire from the Germans whilst I'm sitting blind. During this time, I'm laying down supressing fire by my overwatch units (on both flanks) and nothing is being supressed! Within 5 minutes, my mortar unit is shouting about preserving ammo! What he did fire was beyond useless!

So - has anyone managed to capture Merville?
Post #: 1
RE: Picked up again...but... - 2/3/2010 12:18:25 AM   
Andrew Williams


Posts: 6116
Joined: 1/8/2001
From: Australia
Status: offline
Interesting

Most complaints are that mortars are too accurate... so nice to hear from the other side.

Merville isn't meant to be easy... almost half the attackers became casualties.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merville_Gun_Battery

I had a rough time on Merville too.
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2101214

(in reply to JudgeDredd)
Post #: 2
RE: Picked up again...but... - 2/3/2010 12:20:15 AM   
Andrew Williams


Posts: 6116
Joined: 1/8/2001
From: Australia
Status: offline
BTW.... it's ok to lose

Just man up and do better next time.

It would be a bit boring if you knew you would win.

(in reply to Andrew Williams)
Post #: 3
RE: Picked up again...but... - 2/3/2010 1:15:12 AM   
Southernland


Posts: 2283
Joined: 11/19/2007
Status: offline
Yeah Melville is a bitch.  Against the AI I try to encirle the battaries and cut off their supply routes, then chip away at them piecemeal.   Never played this one vs a human.  Guess there you just curl up in a corner and wait for the tanks to arrive

(in reply to Andrew Williams)
Post #: 4
RE: Picked up again...but... - 2/3/2010 4:15:25 AM   
Concord


Posts: 39
Joined: 9/30/2009
From: Western Australia
Status: offline
I played this one in twin grand campaigns with a friend on LAN.

When I was the Allies, I chipped away at him over many battles. The battery garrison unit doesn't have many troops, so every kill is an attrition victory. I used mortars on his 20mm cannons (they are nasty!) until they were gone. I took the town in a big (expensive) assault over a couple of battles. I took ground in other areas by sneaking. Eventually I was able to sneak a squad in behind the battery (across the minefields and wire!) and from that foothold was able to clear him out in two battles.

When I played as the Germans, it was certainly easy(er), but I recall feeling like my lines were stretched because of the small numbers fielded in the battlegroup. I used my MG's and 20mm cannons (will fit into bunkers) to great effect. I gave up ground in some areas, but wanted to keep the village. In the end my opponent got fed up with Merville, and elected to leave it to the Germans and attack into the Pegasus Bridge map instead (his other para battlegroup moved out into Troarn...straight into 21st Panzer!).

With most of the para type battles, I had success in some areas by setting up a strong attack group in cover, and then sending one or two scouts quickly forward to a nearby location. Once the German defenders were spotted by the scouts, the massed firepower of my MG/Bren teams would quickly take down the enemy teams in and around the location.

I found all of the para battles extremely challenging. The toughest were Pegasus, Merville, and (shudder) Pont Du Hoc.
Initially I would try sneak (or even run in some areas) to take more defensible ground. In the next battle I would set up some supporting fire units along the line, and attack heavily in one spot. Sometimes, while my opponent was busy focusing on the main attack, I would sneak scouts into other areas to gain more ground.


< Message edited by Concord -- 2/3/2010 4:16:51 AM >


_____________________________

Game on!

(in reply to Southernland)
Post #: 5
RE: Picked up again...but... - 2/3/2010 4:25:04 AM   
Concord


Posts: 39
Joined: 9/30/2009
From: Western Australia
Status: offline
A couple more general tips:

I have found suppression fire to be a waste of time and ammo (except tanks!!!). Mortars can be helpful if used well. They aren't heavy artillery though - you can't use them to eliminate a whole MG post. Especially good against guns, moving infantry, and open-topped vehicles.

The best method to use when attacking is not being seen. Move fast in areas with totally blocked line of sight, and sneak in other places. Those German MG's are devastating!


_____________________________

Game on!

(in reply to Concord)
Post #: 6
RE: Picked up again...but... - 2/3/2010 7:25:42 AM   
JudgeDredd


Posts: 8573
Joined: 11/14/2003
From: Scotland
Status: offline
I'm not complaining about losing - it's boring losing all the time, but it would also be boring winning everytime.

What I was bitching about was the complete uselessness of my mortars and the apparent sniper like ability of the German mortar teams. The second main gripe is supressing fire and how apparently usless it is whilst the Germans seem to drop my teams like matchsticks.

I will admit to making some errors and there are certainly things I could do better...sneaking when I was running a prime example...I'm really complaining about the things I have absolutely no control over and the apparent lack of balance in accuracies between the human and AI player.

But apparently it must be my problem, as it seems I was the only one complaining about the balance in accuracy

(in reply to Concord)
Post #: 7
RE: Picked up again...but... - 2/3/2010 8:46:20 AM   
Concord


Posts: 39
Joined: 9/30/2009
From: Western Australia
Status: offline
I like the tactics in this game - and talking about it. Like any game, it has its quirks that you need to get used to.

Mortars need to be used with finese. I've emptied two full loads of ammo on a MG post in desperation, and only taken out one guy. I now use mortars as a bit of a tactical edge. Don't expect miracles from them. They ARE uncannily good against enemy guns and open topped vehicles, and I will spare no ammo with these targets. They are also good at taking out infantry on the move in the open. Time and time again I have taken out half a team with just a couple of well timed shells, and then go Defend to conserve ammo. Likewise, smoke is good to use to shield your troops, but it's not totally fail-safe either.

In regards to weapons crews: part of my decision to include a gun or mortar team is that I know they can be used in a dual role...firing their main weapon, and their small arms to help hold the line. Even if the main gun runs out of ammo, they can still fire their rifles - and the crew teams are often quite large! I have also found the crew teams to be nice and accurate - especially the gun crews. I think this is because historically, highly motivated experienced guys were used in these roles rather than just anyone. I've had mortar and gun crews hold the line quite well when under pressure. Sometimes firing their main gun, sometimes firing small arms...sometimes both at the same time from memory!

Keep in mind that there is a HUGE difference in this game between units which are stationary and moving. If you're not moving, you've got some cover, your guys are ready to fire, and most of the time haven't been fully spotted. Your gun flashes may be seen, but the enemy hasn't pin-pointed your exact position yet, so their guys have nothing to directly fire at. If you are moving, you can be seen very easily, and enemy will automatically target your guys directly. This aspect (and the fact that fire is so leathal to your little digital troops!) is exactly why it is so much harder to be the attacker in this game.

When I play the German side in my LAN campaign, I take a little longer during set up, and then just sit back and watch the story unfold. I might change a covered arc here, adjust a barrage there, and then sit back again. If I place my units well, most of the hard work has been done. Only ONE thing gets my knickers-in-a-knot: TANKS. Both my friend and I use "recon by fire" to pound likely defensive spots, and directly target gun flashes. Absolutely NOTHING shuts up an MG post like a dozen HE shells.

I have an American para unit that has made it to St. Come Du Mont up north and are facing German paras. For two battles, they fought onto the map, paying dearly for every scrap of land...and not doing much damage in return. Then, some Stuarts appeared on day 2 (they appear in the OOB to represent advance units arriving in support). Just two of them, but they made all the difference. I never directly spotted any of those well camouflaged Germans, but I hosed in the high explosive rounds every time I saw gun flashes. First one guy went down, then another, then another (I'd shift my aim slightly to probe their position). What WAS a dangerous team threatening your advancing forces becomes a single shaken guy crawling out of the hail of MG bullets and explosions. I made twice as much headway in that one battle than the other two combined. I also flipped the casualty results - Allied paras were low, German paras heavy.


< Message edited by Concord -- 2/3/2010 8:53:30 AM >


_____________________________

Game on!

(in reply to JudgeDredd)
Post #: 8
RE: Picked up again...but... - 4/12/2010 9:04:41 AM   
Tacoman

 

Posts: 2
Joined: 4/12/2010
Status: offline
For an attack I generally bring 2-3 mortar teams. Merville is a doozy, but fell by the end of day 6 with very minimal loses. I never actually assaulted into the barb-wired, mine invested battery area. First battle I moved off the landing zone and captured the victory location directly to the left. Setup mortar and machine gun teams in the hedge row, which gingerly peppered the battery area. The next battle I setup my mortar, machine gun and a command squad in the hedge row which pounded the battery area while the rest of the force moved in and took the two VL's to the right of the landing zone. Third battle I divided the mortar and machine gun teams between the hedge row and the newly aquired town area. The rest of the group moved in and captured the northeast VL. I managed to have a command squad from the southwest hedge row move north and take the northwest VL from the battered germans. 4th battle I divided everyone up between the four areas and pounded the crap out of the surounded germans at which point the BG was destroyed. Only lost a 4-5 squads from the operation.

(in reply to Concord)
Post #: 9
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