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APDs won't continue to Lunga

 
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APDs won't continue to Lunga - 7/6/2002 10:09:31 PM   
Kingfish

 

Posts: 38
Joined: 6/17/2002
Status: offline 		Playing scenario #7. Using latest patch.

I have landed the 1st Marine Div at Lunga / Tulagi, and am now organizing small shuttle runs of 4-8 ship TFs to keep the Marines supplied. One such TF consists of 4 APDs loaded with fuel bound for Lunga. They leave Noumea and proceed to within 7 hexes of Lunga, then stop. For the next two turns they just sit there in the open ocean, refusing my repeated orders to proceed to Lunga and unload. I then tried to see if they would at least go to Tulagi. No luck. Another wasted turn. Finally, their endurance level reaches red and I have to withdraw them to Lungaville. They are heading back now with their original load of 1000 fuel points still on board.

Can someone be so kind as to explain to me why this happened? There were no enemy units anywhere near Lunga, and I had Saratoga providing LRC in case of enemy air attacks from Rabaul. BTW, while this was going on other, slower TFs composed of AK / Aps would sail past the motionless APDs on their way to Lunga / Tulagi.

What gives? :confused:
Post #: 1
- 7/6/2002 10:32:54 PM   
worr

 

Posts: 901
Joined: 2/7/2001
Status: offline 		Use "no retirement"

Worr, out

(in reply to Kingfish)
Post #: 2
- 7/6/2002 10:35:21 PM   
juliet7bravo

 

Posts: 894
Joined: 5/30/2001
Status: offline 		It's because they don't have the range to make it there and back in one go.

If you need to use APD's/fast transports in forward "dangerous" areas, attach or have them follow a regular transport TF with a nice fat AP/AK/AO that has plenty of fuel points. Set the destination outside the "danger zone", once there top off the APD's fuel so they can make the high speed dash in. Once they get out, have them follow the "milk cow" Transport TF to top off their fuel for the trip home.

(in reply to Kingfish)
Post #: 3
- 7/7/2002 12:20:33 AM   
Kingfish

 

Posts: 38
Joined: 6/17/2002
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by juliet7bravo
[B]It's because they don't have the range to make it there and back in one go. [/B][/QUOTE]

But wouldn't that show up in the fuel value before the mission was launched? Or does a commander have to guess if the TFs has the endurance to reach and return?

During it's run up to Lunga the fuel levels were in the green. It was still in the green while it sat in the middle of the ocean for 3 turns. Only after the third turn did it drop into the red, forcing me to withdraw them to Lungaville.

(in reply to Kingfish)
Post #: 4
- 7/7/2002 12:52:09 AM   
juliet7bravo

 

Posts: 894
Joined: 5/30/2001
Status: offline 		I've never found the fuel value color or the new fuel gauge either one to be the slightest bit of use. An APD/DMS/DM will run out of fuel about 10 hexes out from Noumea on the return trip.

All your high speed DD types have such short legs you have to run them in "bursts". DD's for example, when traveling with a Bomb or Carrier TF on along trip will actually slow their overall speed down slower than a transport TF because they have to stop and refuel the DD's numerous times in route. IJN has it even worse, as most of their DD's have a fuel capacity less than half that of a USN DD.

(in reply to Kingfish)
Post #: 5
Fast ships... - 7/7/2002 2:34:44 AM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline 		It appears that the new fast mission rules, which heavily favor ships with a speed greater than 25kts, have caused some problems for the APDs, all of which are pretty much below that speed. That's the first thing.

The second thing is setting the return base. If you have trouble getting them to run in to Lunga, try setting the return base to something closer, like Irau or Luganville (if you had it set to Noumea). That should alleviate most fuel-related problems. I've found the new fuel indicator useful in this regard as well.

In general, higher endurance ships with 30kts or greater top speed will result in the most reliable fast transport or bombardment missions. I'd like to see something eventually that eliminates this stationary effect or makes it more clear when a task force is inadequate. I believe some sort of enhanced feedback is on the list for future versions.

Regards,

- Erik

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Post #: 6
- 7/7/2002 10:33:27 PM   
Kingfish

 

Posts: 38
Joined: 6/17/2002
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by juliet7bravo
[B]I've never found the fuel value color or the new fuel gauge either one to be the slightest bit of use. An APD/DMS/DM will run out of fuel about 10 hexes out from Noumea on the return trip.

[/B][/QUOTE]

I don't understand. Are you saying that the fuel value doesn't mean anything, or doesn't work correctly?

:confused:

(in reply to Kingfish)
Post #: 7
- 7/7/2002 11:59:09 PM   
juliet7bravo

 

Posts: 894
Joined: 5/30/2001
Status: offline 		Neither one, I just don't use them much as I tend to micro-manage all non-CS TF's, much as both Erik and I described.

(in reply to Kingfish)
Post #: 8
- 7/8/2002 3:29:05 PM   
1089

 

Posts: 210
Joined: 7/4/2001
From: Portland, OR
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Kingfish
[B]

I don't understand. Are you saying that the fuel value doesn't mean anything, or doesn't work correctly?

:confused: [/B][/QUOTE]

The fuel value is the number of hexes a ship can move at cruising speed. If it can reach its destination and return at cruising speed it will be green. The mission you are assigning your APD requires max speed for the run in and back out at night. At max speed the ship will use 7 times the fuel of cruising speed (180 endurance per hex moved plus the standard 30 for cruising speed for a total of 210 endurance per hex). This will leave it without sufficient fuel to return, so it will not go. See para. 2 on page 57.

kp
:)

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The Earth is but a hollow nougat, reverberating with the sounds of the big bands... :cool:

(in reply to Kingfish)
Post #: 9
- 7/8/2002 5:10:53 PM   
Kingfish

 

Posts: 38
Joined: 6/17/2002
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]The fuel value is the number of hexes a ship can move at cruising speed. If it can reach its destination and return at cruising speed it will be green. [/QUOTE]

Please see my second post in this thread. The TF's fuel value gave me every indication that it could reach and return, otherwise I would have had them top off at Lungaville prior to going on to Lunga.

(in reply to Kingfish)
Post #: 10
- 7/17/2002 1:44:23 AM   
zed

 

Posts: 268
Joined: 5/20/2002
Status: offline 		The same thing happened to me, I guessed it was because where I was going did not belong to me, it was an enemy possession (green dot). I still have not figured out what happened.

(in reply to Kingfish)
Post #: 11
APD`s to Lunga - 7/17/2002 3:15:54 AM   
Black Cat

 

Posts: 615
Joined: 7/4/2002
Status: offline 		I base them on Lungaville for supply runs, it`s closer.

In fact I base the Surface Warfare and Supply TF`s there too, just make sure to keep Lungaville well supplied with supply/fuel.

Against the AI, I start running unemployed Merchant ships from Brisbane up there in late May early June.

(in reply to Kingfish)
Post #: 12
Re: Fast ships... - 7/17/2002 4:07:59 AM   
dgaad

 

Posts: 864
Joined: 7/25/2001
From: Hockeytown
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Erik Rutins
[B]It appears that the new fast mission rules, which heavily favor ships with a speed greater than 25kts, have caused some problems for the APDs, all of which are pretty much below that speed. That's the first thing.

The second thing is setting the return base. If you have trouble getting them to run in to Lunga, try setting the return base to something closer, like Irau or Luganville (if you had it set to Noumea). That should alleviate most fuel-related problems. I've found the new fuel indicator useful in this regard as well.

In general, higher endurance ships with 30kts or greater top speed will result in the most reliable fast transport or bombardment missions. I'd like to see something eventually that eliminates this stationary effect or makes it more clear when a task force is inadequate. I believe some sort of enhanced feedback is on the list for future versions.

Regards,

- Erik [/B][/QUOTE]

Erik : you must have a bunch of text files with the "standard responses" ready to cut and paste by now. ;)

_____________________________

Last time I checked, the forums were messed up. ;)

(in reply to Kingfish)
Post #: 13
- 7/17/2002 7:38:26 PM   
corbulo

 

Posts: 213
Joined: 2/28/2002
From: rigel 5
Status: offline 		Tried to load apd fast transport that would not load. Capacity was 1750 I was tring to load 1600 going from truk to kavieng.
should units being loaded but load was 0 , operation points still stayed at 0. What gives?

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virtute omne regatur

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Post #: 14
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