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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> War In The Pacific - Struggle Against Japan 1941 - 1945 >> Withdraw ships from Europe?

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Withdraw ships from Europe? - 7/8/2002 9:14:28 AM

Dawy

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I am just wondering in WITP, if the Allied player will have the ability to choose which American ships will go to fight in the Pacific or to Europe.

The Allied player would then be able to choose to have American ships that were historically sent to Europe, to fight in the Pacific. Of course there would have to be some sort of "invisible European War" built into the WITP game engine that would check to make sure the Allied player didn't withdraw EVERY SINGLE ship from the Europe theatre, otherwise that would give Japan an unfair disadvantage.

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Re: Withdraw ships from Europe? - 7/8/2002 11:11:38 PM

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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Dawy
[B]I am just wondering in WITP, if the Allied player will have the ability to choose which American ships will go to fight in the Pacific or to Europe.
. [/B][/QUOTE]

Hi

I see this option as highly unlikely in WITP. This is a historical wargame and thus you get what the USN had in the Pacific. It is however likely that scenarios will be made with some hypothetical settings that would change things like ship,troop and aircraft availibility. Who knows. Thats what the editor will be there for.

Dan

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- 7/9/2002 4:50:12 AM

byron13

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This issue was raised in another thread - by me! Darned good idea, I say - if it is provided as an option for ahistorical play with, say, optional production. If used, rather than leaving the choice to the player, I would rather the AI make the decision of what ships to add or subtract from theatre assets based on (i) some random factor that would assume needs in the rest of the world for a given time and (ii) your success in the game. Thus, for the first six months of 1942, the computer may provide you with additional assets because the war against the U-Boats is going very well, or may reduce your assets because of German success in the Med. If you were kicking butt in the game, the AI may strip some assets from you (since they would assumed to be of more use elsewhere regardless of the global situation); if you were getting your butt kicked, the AI would redeploy units to the Pacific to help stem the tide. Depending on the mix of world situation and game situation, these effects may neutralize each other resulting in no real change, or it may drastically supplement or deplete your forces in a given six month period.

For any of this to work, the computer would have to give you a couple of weeks or a month's notice and the reason why. Otherwise, you'd have players screaming about the U.S.S. Washington disappearing for no apparent reason.

I know the historical crowd will scream about this idea, but I emphasize that this should only be an option. A pure historical version of the game should be provided, and I'm sure will be the core of the game. U2, a respected voice on this forum, thinks it would be highly unlikely to have something like this. I think there is more like a 50-50 chance. I don't think we have received any indication from Gary & Co. as to what is likely to be included with the game. If optional production is not provided, then WiP will just be a PacWar remake in more detail, and I and many others will be disappointed. In this case, Gary would be recreating history and would probably provide the force pools that were historically available. If Gary takes a larger view and allows for optional production, then they would be allowing changes in history, in which case I think they would almost have to allow the game to be influenced by other theaters of war.

I don't think anyone here has a good read on this issue yet, and any discussions would be guesswork. I would like to believe that, given the time scale (4 years or longer) and the fact that production decisions would have a tremendous effect, Matrix will provide for ahistorical options. It would greatly enhance the flexibility and replayability of the game and possibly make it an instant classic. I also don't believe that a mere remake of PacWar ten years after the fact will be acceptable to a large part of the community given the other possibilities. But, as I say, this is all guesswork.

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- 7/9/2002 6:23:20 AM

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[QUOTE]Originally posted by byron13
[B]

U2, a respected voice on this forum, thinks it would be highly unlikely to have something like this. I think there is more like a 50-50 chance. I don't think we have received any indication from Gary & Co. as to what is likely to be included with the game. . [/B][/QUOTE]
Hi
Well thank you! I say that this surely will be done by a creative scenario maker sooner or later but the guys just want to finish a product and therefore hypothetical things in a historical Grigsby game is always left aside. Maybe you, I or the Matrix crew will do such a campaign once the game is out and maybe include it in a patch. But before they inform us this is all speculation. I really dont mind ahistorical things in a game as long as its an option or in another scenario. The ships in the Atlantic should be included in the editor for us to use in creating scenarios. But I will not cry if they are not. All I want is another great Grigsby game.
Dan

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- 7/9/2002 9:11:26 AM

Dawy

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I suppose the question of whether the player can choose which ships go where would have to tie in with the debate on how production should be laid out.

If the game is made so ships arrive at their historical times then it means they would have to go off to fight in their historical theatres.

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Uh oh... - 7/9/2002 11:33:13 AM

Ron Saueracker

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The production issue raises it's ugly head again.:D

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ETO holding box - 7/9/2002 1:30:44 PM

mogami

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Greetings, If we really want a monster, Have every Allied unit capable of being used in each theater go into ETO holding box.
Allied player scores victory points for adding units to box and loses points for drawing units from box. Have minium required for every catogory (Land/Air/Sea) special events could require adding (failure loses points/game) or release (without losing points)
Combined with production this would allow US player to see entire US military. ETO would follow historic path so long as he meet minium requirements. Allow ETO to end early if he sends enough extra, have it last longer if he falls below. (Ending ETO would release bulk of units there for transfer to Pacific.)

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Re: ETO holding box - 7/9/2002 8:08:14 PM

Dawy

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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Mogami
[B]Greetings, If we really want a monster, Have every Allied unit capable of being used in each theater go into ETO holding box.
Allied player scores victory points for adding units to box and loses points for drawing units from box. Have minium required for every catogory (Land/Air/Sea) special events could require adding (failure loses points/game) or release (without losing points)
Combined with production this would allow US player to see entire US military. ETO would follow historic path so long as he meet minium requirements. Allow ETO to end early if he sends enough extra, have it last longer if he falls below. (Ending ETO would release bulk of units there for transfer to Pacific.) [/B][/QUOTE]

Just like 'War in Russia', where the Germans had to keep certain number of units in France and Italy...

This could be a possible solution with dealing with the "can I have the ability to withdraw units from the ETO" question. If a player wants to follow history they can just simply choose the units that historically fought in the pacific and keep the other units in the ETO box.

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Re: Uh oh... - 7/9/2002 8:26:42 PM

byron13

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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Ron Saueracker
[B]The production issue raises it's ugly head again.:D [/B][/QUOTE]

Well, the 15th thread on production only has six or seven posts on it, so I need some place else to spread the gospel - the one true and correct way to design the game: OPTIONAL PRODUCTION!!:p

Having the ETO affect the PTO just makes sense to me. The PTO wasn't fought in a vacuum, after all. Gary seems to design a lot of systems or ideas from his earlier games into later efforts, and I haven't seen one of his games that alters reinforcement levels based on the influence of another theatre. Dawy points out that Gary has designed in theatre boxes that had to be manned to some degree, so maybe that's what we'll have. Personally, I never like this because I always found that I was stripping the other theatre for assets. My needs were real and outweighed the abstract notion that some other general needed the forces and that I might lose sooner if I did so. The same thing would go for victory points, Mogami. I don't really watch the victory points that closely. Instead, I want to capture the next island and want an extra division or carrier in the attack. Maybe I rationalize it as the short term victory point loss will be made up be a quicker and more decisive victory by using the additional forces.

I'd rather have the computer force it down my throat as would have happened in real life.

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Re: Uh oh... - 7/10/2002 10:04:42 AM

byron13

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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Ron Saueracker
[B]The production issue raises it's ugly head again.:D [/B][/QUOTE]

Hey! I know what I'll do . . . I'll start an optional production thread! That'll be original . . .

Production seems to be the most consistent issue regarding this game. I'll have to buy it if for no other reason than to see how they solve the riddle.

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Post #: 10

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