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Name This!...(17)

 
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Name This!...(17) - 3/2/2010 6:20:00 PM   
Brady


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RE: Name This!...(17) - 3/2/2010 6:47:39 PM   
m10bob


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Status: offline 		Chinese troops, but I'm at work...Looks like a Brno, not sure..

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RE: Name This!...(17) - 3/2/2010 7:40:34 PM   
Chickenboy


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Status: offline 		A publicity picture (note figures socializing and milling whilest upright in background).

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RE: Name This!...(17) - 3/2/2010 8:31:00 PM   
redcoat


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It looks like Chinese Nationalist soldiers with a Czech designed Zbrojovka Brno (ZB) LMG. It may be a ZB vz.26 or a ZB vz. 30 – which looks very, very similar. It is hard to tell from the blurriness of the photo.

The Chinese imported ZB 26s from Czechoslovakia and manufactured ZB 30s under licence.


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RE: Name This!...(17) - 3/2/2010 8:47:29 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: redcoat



It looks like Chinese Nationalist soldiers with a Czech designed Zbrojovka Brno (ZB) LMG. It may be a ZB vz.26 or a ZB vz. 30 – which looks very, very similar. It is hard to tell from the blurriness of the photo.

The Chinese imported ZB 26s from Czechoslovakia and manufactured ZB 30s under licence.



Chinese troops wore THOSE helmets? I learn something every day here.

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RE: Name This!...(17) - 3/2/2010 8:49:19 PM   
LoBaron


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58


quote:

ORIGINAL: redcoat



It looks like Chinese Nationalist soldiers with a Czech designed Zbrojovka Brno (ZB) LMG. It may be a ZB vz.26 or a ZB vz. 30 – which looks very, very similar. It is hard to tell from the blurriness of the photo.

The Chinese imported ZB 26s from Czechoslovakia and manufactured ZB 30s under licence.



Chinese troops wore THOSE helmets? I learn something every day here.


LOL I was thinking exactly the same...

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RE: Name This!...(17) - 3/2/2010 8:59:24 PM   
thegreatwent


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quote:


quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58


quote:

ORIGINAL: redcoat



It looks like Chinese Nationalist soldiers with a Czech designed Zbrojovka Brno (ZB) LMG. It may be a ZB vz.26 or a ZB vz. 30 – which looks very, very similar. It is hard to tell from the blurriness of the photo.

The Chinese imported ZB 26s from Czechoslovakia and manufactured ZB 30s under licence.



Chinese troops wore THOSE helmets? I learn something every day here.



LOL I was thinking exactly the same...


Many German officers went to work post-WW 1 in China. Working to modernise Sun Yat-sen's army that later split into the communist and Kuomintang forces. They adopted equipment and tactics from the German officers. This lead to friction between Germany and Japan during the 30's. Most German officers returned to Germany but the training and equipment remained. IIRC a German doctor sheltered Chinese civilians in the foreign sector of Nanking when the Japanese conquered the city. Interesting story that I can't put my finger on but it is still remembered by some in China.

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RE: Name This!...(17) - 3/2/2010 9:08:23 PM   
lolz

 

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RE: Name This!...(17) - 3/2/2010 9:22:10 PM   
redcoat


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58
Chinese troops wore THOSE helmets? I learn something every day here.


Yup. Jerry helmets. Some Chinese Nationalist units had 'Germanic' looking uniforms in the 1930s.



The Chinese also often used German or Chinese made Mauser rifles.

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RE: Name This!...(17) - 3/2/2010 10:06:00 PM   
Grunt


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Status: offline 		My neighbor is German and was a child of German missionaries in China during the war. When Germany and Japan allied, he and his family had to flee the country. They made their way to French Indo China and from there back to Japanese controlled Shanghai. He has a fascinating story. He just wrote a book called "China Hans" by Hans Martin Wilhelm. This is not a book recommendation, I haven't read it myself.

Hope I haven't strayed to far off topic...the China/German subject caught my eye.

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RE: Name This!...(17) - 3/2/2010 10:48:13 PM   
chesmart


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Status: offline 		Before the alliance with Japan Germany was China's biggest military and trade partner.

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RE: Name This!...(17) - 3/2/2010 11:22:59 PM   
redcoat


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A photo of some Chinese WW2 re-enactors:




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RE: Name This!...(17) - 3/2/2010 11:24:54 PM   
jrlans


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Status: offline 		Wow definatly learn something new everyday reading these forums never had any clue that the chinese army uniform so closely resembled that of germany.

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RE: Name This!...(17) - 3/2/2010 11:31:27 PM   
redcoat


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I think the Chinese Nationalists used a variety of uniforms. Many units had German style uniforms ... especially at first. Later they started to get uniforms from the Americans and the British. Many Chinese 'Nationalist' units were effectively controlled by warlords who gave them different uniforms or no proper uniforms at all. The Chinese Communists had a different uniform which was blueish in colour.

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“‘Who controls the past,’ ran the Party slogan, ‘controls the future: who controls the present controls the past.’”

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RE: Name This!...(17) - 3/2/2010 11:41:11 PM   
chesmart


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Status: offline 		Thats the reason i like bradys what is it posts you learn something new every day.

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RE: Name This!...(17) - 3/3/2010 12:37:28 AM   
wdolson

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Grunt

My neighbor is German and was a child of German missionaries in China during the war. When Germany and Japan allied, he and his family had to flee the country. They made their way to French Indo China and from there back to Japanese controlled Shanghai. He has a fascinating story. He just wrote a book called "China Hans" by Hans Martin Wilhelm. This is not a book recommendation, I haven't read it myself.

Hope I haven't strayed to far off topic...the China/German subject caught my eye.


I once worked with a guy named Danny Bach. He was a Vietnamese immigrant and spoke very broken English. His grandfather had been a German missionary who settled down permanently in Indo China.

He was working on a project that required him to meet a lot of vendors. It was always entertaining when a vendor came to see him for the first time.

Bill

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RE: Name This!...(17) - 3/3/2010 1:20:29 AM   
Mynok


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Interesting about the German unis. Makes sense from what I read in Castles of Steel and Dreadnought about German involvement there.


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RE: Name This!...(17) - 3/3/2010 5:56:31 PM   
Brady


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ZB vz.26 or a ZB vz. 30, it is



...............

As noted above its very hard to tell the two apart, an excelent weapon howeaver see the link below, and a historicaly signafagant one as the designe inspired what would become the Bren Gun:


http://www.infantry-weapons.org/docs/ZB_30.pdf

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RE: Name This!...(17) - 3/3/2010 7:03:19 PM   
m10bob


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Status: offline 		Note the Mauser ammo pouches..

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RE: Name This!...(17) - 3/4/2010 2:04:14 PM   
c_m_kwong

 

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Status: offline 		Only several divisions within the Chinese army wore those helmets (mainly 87th, 88th and 36th) - they were practically annihiliated during the bloody street fighitng in Shanghai and Nanjing in 1937-8 so we cant use them in WITP...

The three division even had a mechanized artillery battalion with german equippment and several Pz-I tanks - everything were lost in Shanghai and Nanjing, though.

We had British helmet as well, before the Chinese troops arrived at India (imported them since 1930):

http://images.google.com/hosted/life/f?q=chinese+army+source:life&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dchinese%2Barmy%2Bsource:life%26start%3D80%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN%26ndsp%3D20%26tbs%3Disch:1&imgurl=f1abc3c0af8772bd

I cant tell whether the gun was ZB 26 or ZB 30...

redcoat, the pic you posted were not reenactors - they were real (I think they were the Cadets)

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RE: Name This!...(17) - 3/4/2010 3:21:02 PM   
redcoat


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Yes. According to the labelling on the same photo in another source it shows German trained soldiers from the 88th Division.

The German helmet was mostly used in the 1930s. British helmets were more common in WW2. I don’t think Chinese soldiers used – or had – helmets much of the time. The standard headgear seems to have been a field cap with a Chinese Nationalist roundrel on the front. It has been suggested that the field cap was - partially at least - inspired by a German design (such as the German M43 ski cap).

An officer in a field cap.



< Message edited by redcoat -- 3/4/2010 9:26:04 PM >

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“‘Who controls the past,’ ran the Party slogan, ‘controls the future: who controls the present controls the past.’”

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