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Best Tank: - 7/10/2002 8:36:11 AM

Cath0de

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What would consider to be the BEST tank in WWII? Most people consider the T-34 the best tank, but I've seen German Tigers demolish them. I would say the King Tiger is the best, but I want an opinion.

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Post #: 1

- 7/10/2002 8:38:22 AM

G_X

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T-44's

Or IS-3's

There's also a russian tank (I forget what it's Designator is) That outclasses the Tiger I and Tiger II in both Armour and Weapon Penetration, I think it's only downfall is lack of range and accuracy.

You have to remember with the Tiger's that it's not just the tank, it's the Elite Crew manning it.

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Post #: 2

- 7/10/2002 12:24:34 PM

Hades

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http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=21734

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Post #: 3

- 7/10/2002 12:37:30 PM

Possum

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Valentines!
While not a top of the Range Tank, it had 3 very important things going for it.
1) Mechanically very reliable and robust. probably THE most Robust tank in WWII.
2) It was capable of being adapted to take much bigger main gun than it was designed to carry, eventually being armed with a 75mm
3) Most Important. It was in full scale Serial production in many factories in the UK when it was needed, (unlike many wonder tanks, that only became avaliable after they where no longer needed for victory) as a result it had a production run in the tens of thousands.... and had a long service life...
4) Its small size, and medium weight, meant it was resonable hard to spot, and it could be shipped all over the world without many problems.
Close 2nd, the T-34, again mainly because it was in Serial production in time to be usefull, apart from having good armour, excellent mobility, and in later models, a decent gun...

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Post #: 4

- 7/10/2002 12:52:15 PM

Cath0de

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Those 88mm guns in Tigers just outclass anything I've seen. They can tear through the thickest armor like butter. T-34 are a good all around tank, but I find they can't stand 1 to 1 with a good German tank. Worst tank: Shermans. They were called Ronsons, because like Ronson lighters, they lit every time.

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Post #: 5

- 7/10/2002 1:02:30 PM

G_X

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Errr.

No offense, but I've seen a T-34 go 2 Panzers:1 T-34 and come out easily the victor.

These were Panzer III's

I'm sure by Good German Tank you meant a Tiger :rolleyes: Which nothing contemporary could stand 1:1

I'm pretty sure though that there is a russian tank (IS-2/3) that EASILY outclasses the Tiger I at least in Armour and Penetration.

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Post #: 6

- 7/10/2002 1:17:55 PM

Hades

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Since you insulted Sherman I must jump to defend. Shermans if used right are great tanks. You can't parfe them around like you can with Tigers but if you hide them and then pop out and fire a shot or two they do fine. I have seen a M4A3 take out Tiger after Tiger this way. Sure just about any shell will hurt them, but I have seen a T-34 die to 20mm fire.

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Post #: 7

- 7/10/2002 1:55:30 PM

OKW-73

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no offence, but there was already thread about this very same topic ;) ---> http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=21734

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Post #: 8

PzKpfw VI Tiger I - 7/13/2002 10:52:36 PM

Fabio Prado

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PzKpfw VI Tiger I.:D
Best quality armor - Best gun - excellent mobility

YES - excellent mobility - the Tiger I had best mobility than Shermans, and could do a 360 degree turn faster than hell - this frequently helped with the not so fast turning turret :eek:

The problem with the Tigers was the transmission, which was prone to break if periodic maintanance was not done. ;)

What matters is that the Tiger I could face anything right up to the last day of the war.

Fab

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Post #: 9

- 7/14/2002 6:56:11 AM

Svennemir

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What's the best tank - in which *role* ?

There are numerous factors that decide the ability of a tank.

If you look for raw firepower and armour in SPWAW, KTiger is the answer.

If you are talking "real life", the IS-2 might very well have been better since it was much more mobile and easier to produce (though not just as powerful of course).

If you want a good all-round tank, a medium tank suited for advancing rapidly when having broken enemy lines, the T-34 is probably the best in the war. Very fast, and throughout the war T-34s maintained excellent to decent firepower and armour compared with other models. Besides it was very simply constructed, so breakdowns were easily fixed. These were kings of the battlefield in 1941 (except for the KV-1 tanks - when they didn't break down)

The Panther is the most powerful medium tank AT-wise, but it has only a 75mm gun. While this one is excellent at defeating armour, its HE capability is inferior to that of the T-34.

As can be seen, there is no "one" best tank of WWII.

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Post #: 10

- 7/14/2002 8:43:49 AM

G_X

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Forgive me, I'm not sure, but could someone look in like September '46 American's and look at the Heavy TD section, or it might be GMC section.

Either way there is a massive tank with tons of armor and a gun that I believe was better than the King Tiger. Someone else just go look and tell me if I'm imagining it or not.

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Post #: 11

- 7/14/2002 11:34:07 AM

Hades

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Yep the T95. Tons of armor and a 105mm at gun. Very fun. Nice for stopping IS tanks.

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Post #: 12

Re: Best Tank: - 7/14/2002 2:45:12 PM

Culiacan Mexico

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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Cath0de
[B]What would consider to be the BEST tank in WWII? Most people consider the T-34 the best tank, but I've seen German Tigers demolish them. I would say the King Tiger is the best, but I want an opinion. [/B][/QUOTE]How do you define best? The most important series of the war had to have been the MkIV, T-34, and Sherman. All were build in quanity and while none were the most poweriful, they were effective.

Build King Tigers or don't and it has little effect on Germany's war effort. Imagine the U.S. in France during 1944 with Grants... or the Soviet without T-34 in 1941-3... it isn't pretty. IMO

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Post #: 13

- 7/14/2002 4:24:17 PM

Hades

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I think it all depends on you playing style. I personally like the IS tanks because you don't have to think about using them. Just wade in and fire. But I also think the British AVRE(?) is a lot of fun at close ranges. I don't think anything can stop a 290mm mortar. I also rarely play any more with out a flame tank platoon. But both the AVRE and flame tanks are more like armored weapon systems than tanks.

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Post #: 14

- 7/15/2002 2:35:29 AM

Ivan

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t-34s are **** in the game cos you cant do it like it was during ww2. meaning that the russians had to many of them they could surrond tigers and eventually blow them to pieces. now if i play with my friend, he as the germans, me as the russians both with 5000points. i still cant get numerical superiority against his tanks to do anything. see when i play with the russians i want to get that "sure, you blew up 20 tanks, we got 80 more coming". feel to the game.
and with the current tanks prices, that wont happen.

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Post #: 15

- 7/15/2002 7:24:08 AM

G_X

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T-34's aren't ****. I can have numerical superiority easy enough with standard Med Tank companies/Platoons, With Guard's it's a little harder, also, I tend to to take low-point cost infantry. I've never had a problem with lacking numbers as the soviets.

T-34's are one of WWII's better tanks, even without numbers.

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Post #: 16

- 7/15/2002 10:13:07 AM

Ivan

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bah with that crappy firecontrol-goodluck in hitting anything

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Post #: 17

- 7/15/2002 2:04:04 PM

G_X

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O_o

My T-34's almost always have 50% to 75% accuracy when they take shots...

Fire Control is how fast the target is moving, stability is how fast the T-34 is moving.

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Post #: 18

- 7/16/2002 12:38:44 AM

Svennemir

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Yes, the greatest problem for Soviets is not fire control but the inability to fire while on the move.

Actually the Soviet tanks are not all that bad in terms of Fire Control/Range Finder. The T-34/85 has 5/4 compared to Pz-IV with 5/5. The Sherman tanks are no better than T-34s in this regards.

Actually if you don't predefine point number for both forces, please note that Soviets get 1/3 more points than the Germans in meeting engagements (corresponding advantage in other engagements). Try giving the Germans 3000 points while leaving Soviet points on "X". In the Soviet buy screen you will count all 4000 points. Those 1000 points mean more than most would think.

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Post #: 19

- 7/16/2002 1:13:38 AM

G_X

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Especially the way I play, High end tanks, like the Guard, and Conscripts, just to have the spotting that's not ****.

Even though I've noticed recently that Tank Platoon and Company leaders are all Recon units, meaning they don't have the 50% spotting disability.

I'm wondering more and more why I can't use Armoured Cars for my tank support.

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Post #: 20

- 7/17/2002 12:21:27 AM

GYBLIN

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Buy lots of bt-5's or bt-7s.youll have about 80 of em.:eek: :eek:

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Post #: 21

- 7/18/2002 9:21:14 PM

Ivan

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really?the soviets get more points? me and my friend always play with equal points. ffs now i got proof that i need more points yay!

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Post #: 22

National characteristics - 7/18/2002 10:37:33 PM

Curieus

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IIRC this is also part of the national characteristics. If you want to have a balanced game, then only fix the points on the player1 side. Leave the other points at XXX*, the game will calculate how many points the other player should get. *Perhaps this setting is shown like this because where soldiers are prostitution is rife :)

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Post #: 23

- 7/22/2002 4:14:46 PM

Jacc

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This issue has been discussed thousands of times in every forum even vaguely attached to warfare and WWII. Usually those who handle the subject history-based tend to favour their own favourite tanks - which usually were the most important. Most voted are therefore Sherman, T-34, Tiger and variants and sometimes Panther.

Since this is not pure history, but a game, I tend to vote for Panther (D or G). This tank combines excellent mobility, accurate and effective cannon and adequate armour protection. Yes, I know the problems with maintenance and side armour, as well as weak top armour, but I still prefer 75mmL70KwK over most guns. 88mmL71KwK (K�nigstiger, Jagdpanther) is perhaps better, and the old 88mmL56 (Tiger I) more effective against infantry, but that 75L70 is accurate and effective.

Of course, the T-34 was one of the best from 1940 onwards - until the appearance of Tiger and even more so Panther. The 75mmL43 and 75L48 had caused severe trouble for the the Soviets by summer 1942. T-34 regained above average firepower and increased protection only at 1944, the T-34/85 entered service.

Basic Sherman was a good tank, or at least better than Italian... Short-barreled model was quite fast, accurate and manouverable, but had appaling armour protection and firepower. Long-barreled 76mm was better, though Sherman's armour protection remained somewhat inferior till the end of the war. Facing Tigers, Panthers, Jagdpanzers like Hetzer and JPz-IV(A) and old PzKpfW-IV's the Sherman was more than handicapped.

Some people like to add something new on the list, which is traditionally held by the those tanks mentioned above. Matilda II, Valentine, Grant, KV-1, T-70 and even pre-war Christie had great influence on the battlefields. Germans also had these less-favoured models: StuG-III/IV, Elefant, Brummb�r and Jagdpanther. All had somewhat significant effect on tactical scale.

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Post #: 24

- 7/22/2002 7:02:16 PM

Ivan

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marder!yay!

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Post #: 25

- 7/23/2002 5:02:41 AM

Belisarius

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If we want to nit-pick (I do that alot :cool: ), we can say that TD's are, in fact, artillery. They were used as such tactically, and not as tanks. Only the desperate shortage of tanks in the Wehrmacht forced the Germans to use them in tank roles. (which they weren't particulary suited for)

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Post #: 26

Best tank - 7/25/2002 9:00:31 PM

Panzergrenadier49048

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The best all-round tank to fight in WWII, albeit only at the very end in limited numbers was the M26 Pershing. It could defeat the Panther, Tiger I or JS-2, while being more reliable and mobile (except Panther). It had a greater rate of fire and could carry more ammo than the JS's and Tiger II.

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Post #: 27

- 7/26/2002 5:02:13 AM

Commander Klank

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In my opinion, dispite its late appearance in the war, the M-26 Pershing was probably the best medum (yes it was a medum tank not a heavy) tank of the war.

The M-26 had a hard hitting gun with a high rate of fire and its armor protection, mobility and mechanical relyability were exellent for a tank of it's class. It incorperated many of the "lessons learned" from the M-4 Sherman class tank and was the first American attempt to seriously build a tank to be "better' than other enemy tanks on the battlefield.

Not bad for a first try EGH?

Oh, and the best light tank of the war? Without a dout the M-24 Chaffie. Fast, hard hitting and had decent armor for a light tank.

Anybody want to dispute this?:D

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Post #: 28

- 7/27/2002 10:27:32 PM

Jacc

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Have to agree in most points - Pershing was agood tank. However, the armour was a bit inadequate (at least that's what I've noticed when I've used them). It did not have enough sloping.

However, Pershin (like JS-III) saw only very limited service in the war (though IS-III did serve in Japan). Thus, I wouldn't add them on the "best tank" conversation, since their impact was minimal. Best tank should also handle the very effect of every tank (compare updated Pz-IV's and K�nigstiger, for example).

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Post #: 29

- 7/27/2002 11:23:44 PM

GYBLIN

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Although,hypothecily if the war had dragged on with all sides being equal who would have won out?King tigers,js-3's or pershings.I'd hate to see what the nazis's would have followed the king tiger with?

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Post #: 30