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AE Historical Game Project - 3/25/2010 2:36:46 PM   
Fletcher


Posts: 3386
Joined: 10/26/2006
From: Jerez, Spain, EU
Status: offline 		Hi there !
After months of playing AE and thinking in house rules to improve the historical envirioment, I would like to share with you my thinkings to discuss, comments or critics. Any comment will be wellcomed and thanks given in advance for any post.
PS: Excuse me because It´s large document and I´ll need probably several post. For the other hands excuse me for my english, it´s not my native laguage.
Best of wishes
Ramón

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RE: AE Historical Game Project - 3/25/2010 2:37:17 PM   
Fletcher


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RE: AE Historical Game Project - 3/25/2010 2:37:42 PM   
Fletcher


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< Message edited by Fletcher -- 3/25/2010 2:38:12 PM >

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RE: AE Historical Game Project - 3/25/2010 2:38:39 PM   
Fletcher


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RE: AE Historical Game Project - 3/25/2010 2:39:19 PM   
Fletcher


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RE: AE Historical Game Project - 3/25/2010 2:39:51 PM   
Fletcher


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RE: AE Historical Game Project - 3/25/2010 2:40:29 PM   
Fletcher


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RE: AE Historical Game Project - 3/25/2010 2:41:08 PM   
Fletcher


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(EDITED)





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< Message edited by Fletcher -- 3/25/2010 2:53:57 PM >

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RE: AE Historical Game Project - 3/25/2010 2:47:43 PM   
Nomad


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From: West Yellowstone, Montana
Status: offline 		I think 9.1 is worded wrong. I read it now that the British heavy naval units will operate in the Pacific and I think you want it to say they can not. But, what about Warsprite?

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RE: AE Historical Game Project - 3/25/2010 2:49:43 PM   
Fletcher


Posts: 3386
Joined: 10/26/2006
From: Jerez, Spain, EU
Status: offline 		Hello Nomad, you are right is worded wrong !

HMS Warspite was at repairs at West Coast, and when finished she sailed to Colombo to join with Somerville´s Eastern Fleet. Until Salomon´s campaign no RN capital ships had operated in Pacific with exception of HIMS Victorious to support USS Saratoga in this campaign.
Best wishes.



< Message edited by Fletcher -- 3/25/2010 2:54:45 PM >

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RE: AE Historical Game Project - 3/25/2010 4:50:05 PM   
Buck Beach

 

Posts: 1973
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From: Upland,CA,USA
Status: offline 		I like the Allied house rules and I will follow many of them in my next game against the Japanese AI. Thanks for taking the time to formulate them.

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RE: AE Historical Game Project - 3/25/2010 4:56:16 PM   
Fletcher


Posts: 3386
Joined: 10/26/2006
From: Jerez, Spain, EU
Status: offline 		Hi Buck !
Thanks a lot for your oppinion ! I am not sure if more will be needed, I am requesting support about it :) thank you so much
Best of wishes
Ramón


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Post #: 12
RE: AE Historical Game Project - 3/25/2010 5:22:27 PM   
Buck Beach

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Fletcher

Hi Buck !
Thanks a lot for your oppinion ! I am not sure if more will be needed, I am requesting support about it :) thank you so much
Best of wishes
Ramón




I personally feel as if I am cheating (not that I don't do it) in trying to take the Australian and New Zealand forces out of Malaysia (also the Brits air and Base Force units). Any thoughts or timing recommendations?

What about those Philippine units and aircraft that can be relocated? And, how fast should the Asiatic Fleet escape from the Philippine waters?

One other thing, do you allow for the redirect of reinforcement/supply convoys sent to Malaysia or Dutch East Indies?

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RE: AE Historical Game Project - 3/25/2010 8:36:49 PM   
Fletcher


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Buck Beach


quote:

ORIGINAL: Fletcher

Hi Buck !
Thanks a lot for your oppinion ! I am not sure if more will be needed, I am requesting support about it :) thank you so much
Best of wishes
Ramón




I personally feel as if I am cheating (not that I don't do it) in trying to take the Australian and New Zealand forces out of Malaysia (also the Brits air and Base Force units). Any thoughts or timing recommendations?

What about those Philippine units and aircraft that can be relocated? And, how fast should the Asiatic Fleet escape from the Philippine waters?

One other thing, do you allow for the redirect of reinforcement/supply convoys sent to Malaysia or Dutch East Indies?


About Phillipine units, only US Forces would be available for transfer, no Phillipine Army units (ground or air).
Several Asiatic Fleet warships had orders to redeploy with British Eastern Fleet at Singapore and sailing into Borneo straits heading Soerabaja... I think no problem to redeploy this ships.
About Malaya, I think allied player should be able to take strategic decisions about reinforcement/supply convoys to Malaya or Dutch Indies (usually I prefer to sent as quick as possible as many UK forces to Singapore to buy time and AIF Forces to D.E.I with the same idea). But I think this doesn´t need any House Rules about it.
About forces at Malaya, it´s a decision from allied player, because you have forces under Restricted (in white -with not possibilities of changes- and others in yellos -you must pay political points). Must be a local decisions.

Thanks a lot for your comments.
Best of wishes
Ramón


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Post #: 14
RE: AE Historical Game Project - 3/25/2010 9:59:22 PM   
Fletcher


Posts: 3386
Joined: 10/26/2006
From: Jerez, Spain, EU
Status: offline 		Point 3.3 (Kwangtung) will be edited like following:

3.- No HQ will go out from Manchuria until 1944 or before Mariana landings or IF ALLIED HAVE CAPTURED ANY BASE AT DEI WITH AIRFIELD 4+ (A-GO IGHQ Strategic Planning).

Anothers changes:
- 4E bombers will not attack under 10,000 feet
- Glenns will be the only floatplane in the IJN SS.
3.6 When Soviet Union is activated, no more IJA units will be transfer to others commands.

Best wishes
Ramón


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RE: AE Historical Game Project - 3/25/2010 10:29:11 PM   
Buck Beach

 

Posts: 1973
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From: Upland,CA,USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Fletcher


quote:

ORIGINAL: Buck Beach


quote:

ORIGINAL: Fletcher

Hi Buck !
Thanks a lot for your oppinion ! I am not sure if more will be needed, I am requesting support about it :) thank you so much
Best of wishes
Ramón




I personally feel as if I am cheating (not that I don't do it) in trying to take the Australian and New Zealand forces out of Malaysia (also the Brits air and Base Force units). Any thoughts or timing recommendations?

What about those Philippine units and aircraft that can be relocated? And, how fast should the Asiatic Fleet escape from the Philippine waters?

One other thing, do you allow for the redirect of reinforcement/supply convoys sent to Malaysia or Dutch East Indies?


About Phillipine units, only US Forces would be available for transfer, no Phillipine Army units (ground or air).
Several Asiatic Fleet warships had orders to redeploy with British Eastern Fleet at Singapore and sailing into Borneo straits heading Soerabaja... I think no problem to redeploy this ships.
About Malaya, I think allied player should be able to take strategic decisions about reinforcement/supply convoys to Malaya or Dutch Indies (usually I prefer to sent as quick as possible as many UK forces to Singapore to buy time and AIF Forces to D.E.I with the same idea). But I think this doesn´t need any House Rules about it.
About forces at Malaya, it´s a decision from allied player, because you have forces under Restricted (in white -with not possibilities of changes- and others in yellos -you must pay political points). Must be a local decisions.

Thanks a lot for your comments.
Best of wishes
Ramón



Thanks for you input.

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Post #: 16
RE: AE Historical Game Project - 3/25/2010 10:52:22 PM   
CarnageINC


Posts: 2208
Joined: 2/28/2005
From: Rapid City SD
Status: offline 		Fletcher, what do you mean by 'waste political points'  Do you mean that they must/can be spent productively or in a manner that simulates that they were spent for the operations in question (i.e. Australian Invasion).  An example would be changing a unit's HQ numerous times until 3000 pol. pts. were spent?

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RE: AE Historical Game Project - 3/25/2010 11:02:32 PM   
CarnageINC


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From: Rapid City SD
Status: offline 		An additional idea for you Fletcher, one for the Japanese would be to have army and navy ground units get to a certain level of 'planning' before operations can commence.  This would reflect the time and effort of political in-fighting a certain service had to do to get the units for 'their' ground offensive/defensive plans.  An example would be planning the invasion of Java.  Since it falls into your 'Navy' sphere of influence all army units to be used would have to have a minimum of 25 or 30 pts to proceed with the operation.  Larger plans for Australia could have even larger costs, like 60-80 planning range to be included.

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RE: AE Historical Game Project - 3/25/2010 11:22:36 PM   
Fletcher


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quote:

ORIGINAL: CarnageINC

Fletcher, what do you mean by 'waste political points'  Do you mean that they must/can be spent productively or in a manner that simulates that they were spent for the operations in question (i.e. Australian Invasion).  An example would be changing a unit's HQ numerous times until 3000 pol. pts. were spent?


The correct meaning is SPENT .. I confused with the correct word, excuse me (english is not my native laguage). When the targets have fallen in japanese hands the reserve political points can be spent in any transfer or theatre.

I wait the meaning of these can be understood.
Thank very much CarnageINC
Best of wishes
Ramón

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RE: AE Historical Game Project - 3/25/2010 11:23:33 PM   
Fletcher


Posts: 3386
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quote:

ORIGINAL: CarnageINC

An additional idea for you Fletcher, one for the Japanese would be to have army and navy ground units get to a certain level of 'planning' before operations can commence.  This would reflect the time and effort of political in-fighting a certain service had to do to get the units for 'their' ground offensive/defensive plans.  An example would be planning the invasion of Java.  Since it falls into your 'Navy' sphere of influence all army units to be used would have to have a minimum of 25 or 30 pts to proceed with the operation.  Larger plans for Australia could have even larger costs, like 60-80 planning range to be included.

Hi CarnageINC
It´s a very good idea... taking notes !!
Thanks a lot !
Ramón

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RE: AE Historical Game Project - 3/26/2010 1:08:53 AM   
WITPPL


Posts: 290
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Status: offline 		I would say that USAF E4 require an USA BF unit to operate at all.


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RE: AE Historical Game Project - 3/26/2010 1:11:19 AM   
Fletcher


Posts: 3386
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Status: offline 		very interesting !... taking notes

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RE: AE Historical Game Project - 3/26/2010 1:21:15 AM   
WITPPL


Posts: 290
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Status: offline 		Btw: If You want them to work You should keep all game related (not political or strategical) rules simple.
In a monster game like this it might be hard to track more elaborated ones

For instance: artillery rule is fine, it is simple, easy to remember, control and execute. Fits.

Navy/Army cooperation (great idea by it self!) will probably cost too much time to control nd to execute on LBU's level but might work nicely at HQ level.

just my 2c.

Have fun!

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RE: AE Historical Game Project - 3/26/2010 6:37:21 AM   
CarnageINC


Posts: 2208
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quote:

ORIGINAL: WITPPL

Btw: If You want them to work You should keep all game related (not political or strategical) rules simple.
In a monster game like this it might be hard to track more elaborated ones

For instance: artillery rule is fine, it is simple, easy to remember, control and execute. Fits.

Navy/Army cooperation (great idea by it self!) will probably cost too much time to control nd to execute on LBU's level but might work nicely at HQ level.

just my 2c.

Have fun!



I like where Fletcher is going with his historical rules. Everything your saying WITPPL is true to. I think that there has to be some kind of Army/Navy cooperation rule for LBU's. I'm not sure HQ level is exactly the right place for it. If a navy operation is planned using naval HQ but no army HQ but army units I think that those army units have to some kind of 'cost' to use them. However in keeping with the spirit of the game it can't be to high a 'price' otherwise it slows the Japanese to a stand still if you use the wrong system.

All in all the actual thing to do is spend the pol. pts. and transfer army units under command of the naval HQ...and vice verse. Similar to Kwantung Army units going into China for combat. Instead of holding all those Political Points for simulating time for political fighting...spend them.

I personally hate having units from other HQ's operating separate from their owning HQ. A example is units from the 25th IJArmy running around Burma without being transferred to 15th IJArmy HQ control. In my games I keep 99% of my units operating in their HQ's sphere of influence. The only units free to operate in another HQ's area's are Combined Fleet HQ's for the Japanese. I find that switching LBU's to a correct controlling HQ's easier to keep track of units and their missions. It hampers but doesn't stop my operations.

This is my personal house rule and opinion but it might work well for your historical rules Fletcher. The more I type and think about this the more I think it works better for your system Fletcher...its easy, already part of the game, and not a hassle to use.



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RE: AE Historical Game Project - 3/26/2010 9:01:19 AM   
Fletcher


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From: Jerez, Spain, EU
Status: offline 		WITTPL and CarnageINC, thanks a lot for your comments !
My own purpose to share the House Rules for an accurate "historicall" game play with WITP AE is get as more comments as possible, critics too, of course... as much ideas from another players as possible to improve the system and finally test the system with all house rules selected. Probably I must be wrong in several of them, and much of WITP players have a large experience playing, then I will wait as much comments and suggest as possible to improve/enlarge/short the system and then test it.
Thanks a lot for all comments
Best of wishes
Ramón

PS: I have took notes from all your suggestions, thanks ! (EDITED)


< Message edited by Fletcher -- 3/26/2010 10:05:44 AM >

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RE: AE Historical Game Project - 3/26/2010 10:15:24 AM   
Fletcher


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quote:

ORIGINAL: WITPPL

I would say that USAF E4 require an USA BF unit to operate at all.


Notes taken, thanks a lot WITPPL !
Very interesting idea (all non-chinese 4E bombers at China would be supported by USAAF ground units)
Ramón

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RE: AE Historical Game Project - 3/26/2010 10:53:17 AM   
LoBaron


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Status: offline 		Geat ideas and thank you for the ammount of work you are putting into this Fletcher!
Will follow that developement for sure.

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RE: AE Historical Game Project - 3/26/2010 12:43:16 PM   
jomni


Posts: 2827
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Status: offline 		If you want historical, then why not these house rules:
1) you cannot launch operations at any time and theater unless it is actually performed in history.
2) you must use the same troops, ships, squadrons, etc. to re-enact a historical battle.




< Message edited by jomni -- 3/26/2010 12:44:57 PM >

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RE: AE Historical Game Project - 3/26/2010 3:51:26 PM   
Fletcher


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jomni

If you want historical, then why not these house rules:
1) you cannot launch operations at any time and theater unless it is actually performed in history.
2) you must use the same troops, ships, squadrons, etc. to re-enact a historical battle.





Thanks a lot about your comments, Lobaron and Jomni.
About your comments Jomni, the purpose is no a re-enact of History, is only get the flavour and actuall enviriomnent of the II World War in the Pacific. You can feel free to take your own strategical decisions...but it´s far unreal that Japan could began a offensive against Australia or India (1942) without a high political price.... About artillery at Kwantung, I think you will be agree that´s necesary to avoid Manchuria could be without japanese arty or aircrafts (like japanese players we know that AI or a soviet PBEM opponent never attack us before August 1945, but it was not the real envirionment).
Thanks about your comments.
Best wishes
Ramon

< Message edited by Fletcher -- 3/26/2010 8:45:40 PM >

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RE: AE Historical Game Project - 3/27/2010 1:33:41 AM   
bklooste

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Fletcher

5/8
re Manchuria arty


Historically a number of the Manchurian Arty were sent to Bataan without any infantyr being witdrawn,,,


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