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First game - I was losing

 
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First game - I was losing - 3/28/2010 3:27:38 PM   
Gertjan

 

Posts: 698
Joined: 12/9/2009
Status: offline 		I just finished my first trial game with most things automated. I dont remeber the race anymore but I managed to get a good start without any economic problems. I was 1st empire most of the time. I had some minor issues with pirates but my escorts and frigates dealt with them most of the time. I had some trouble though of ordering my 1st fleet through the galaxy. The map and my empire were quite large, so it took them a lot of time to reach destinations. And by the time the reached them, their fuel was quite often low. Where exactly to fleets refuel and is it best/fastest to send them to the nearest refuelling point or to the nearest shipyard? + how can you ensure that your fleet refuels with the refueling ship?

I got into trouble because I got into a bad relationship with one race. They were a close neighbour and we shared some star systems. At one point he started harrassing my ships and I let him do that for a while. I warned him and he said he would stop (but he didnt). Then my advisors said that I should declare war and attack him. I didnt do that since my fleet was occupied chasing pirate bases / having difficulties with refuelling and moving large distances. Once I got my fleet into position I wiped out his mines in our joint system. At that point things went really badly. I got into war with this race and suddenly my reputation in the galaxy was ruined. Everyone hated me. What happened? How could I have avoided this, should I first declare war and then order to attack him? Needless to say, all other empires ganged up on me (even the weaker races) and soon fleets were coming in wave to take my planets :( I was not able to restore my relationships soon enough and the strongest empire send a strong fleet (several cruisers) to my capital and took over the planet. As a result the two starbases were also in their hands and attacked my defending fleet. Now it was only a matter of watching my empire fade away. I didn't want to waste my time doing that.

That was my first game. I hope you can help me with learning some lessons from it.
Post #: 1
RE: First game - I was losing - 3/28/2010 3:30:35 PM   
ASHBERY76


Posts: 2136
Joined: 10/10/2001
From: England
Status: offline 		Resupply ships for first question

You sneak attacked the race and the other Empires do not like that.

_____________________________


(in reply to Gertjan)
Post #: 2
RE: First game - I was losing - 3/28/2010 3:34:56 PM   
Gertjan

 

Posts: 698
Joined: 12/9/2009
Status: offline 		Ashbery, thanks a lot. But my question was intended to be more precise. So let me ask it differently: how do you make sure that your resupply ships resupply your fleet? I dont seem to able to get that done. Do they need to belong to the same fleet? If you have a fleet selected, how can you make sure that they will resupply themselves with the closest resupply ship? Is resupplying via this resupply ship faster than via a spaceport/base type of structure? Thanks a lot again!

Oke, now I get it no sneak attacks anymore. But they also attacked my ships and didnt suffer the loss in reputation for it. I suppose you only lose reputation if you destory civilian structures without a war declaration?

(in reply to ASHBERY76)
Post #: 3
RE: First game - I was losing - 3/28/2010 3:39:10 PM   
ASHBERY76


Posts: 2136
Joined: 10/10/2001
From: England
Status: offline 		The galactopedia is a awesome tool that people seem to not use.The Resupply ships need to be stationed at gas clouds,ect.Look at Resupply ships in the pedia.

_____________________________


(in reply to Gertjan)
Post #: 4
RE: First game - I was losing - 3/28/2010 3:42:03 PM   
Gertjan

 

Posts: 698
Joined: 12/9/2009
Status: offline 		I have some troubles with my galactopdia as my IE8 can't open it, currently I'm forced to use Opera browser to see the files out of the game. Sorry to bother you with this question if it is very obvious from the galactopedia.

(in reply to ASHBERY76)
Post #: 5
RE: First game - I was losing - 3/28/2010 3:43:15 PM   
Webbco


Posts: 682
Joined: 2/6/2010
Status: offline 		There's also a reported potential bug with resupply ships.

Don't forget you can't deploy resupply ships on FROZEN gas giants.

(in reply to ASHBERY76)
Post #: 6
RE: First game - I was losing - 3/28/2010 3:47:58 PM   
ASHBERY76


Posts: 2136
Joined: 10/10/2001
From: England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Gertjan

I have some troubles with my galactopdia as my IE8 can't open it, currently I'm forced to use Opera browser to see the files out of the game. Sorry to bother you with this question if it is very obvious from the galactopedia.


Resupply Ships are large mobile bases that are used as strategic refuelling facilities. They have gas extraction components to mine fuel from gas giant planets or gas clouds.

They need to slowly deploy in order to mine fuel or to be used for resupply by other ships. When deployed, the resupply ship is immobile – before moving to a new location they must first undeploy.

Resupply ships are typically sent to uninhabited systems or gas clouds and are used by fleets as refuelling points. They are deployed deep inside enemy territory, allowing fleets to continue attack missions without withdrawing all the way back to their own space ports to refuel.

While they are well-defended with weapons and shielding, resupply ships can still be vulnerable if discovered by a large enemy force


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Post #: 7
RE: First game - I was losing - 3/28/2010 3:54:07 PM   
Jim D Burns


Posts: 4013
Joined: 2/25/2002
From: Salida, CA.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Gertjan

Ashbery, thanks a lot. But my question was intended to be more precise. So let me ask it differently: how do you make sure that your resupply ships resupply your fleet? I dont seem to able to get that done. Do they need to belong to the same fleet? If you have a fleet selected, how can you make sure that they will resupply themselves with the closest resupply ship? Is resupplying via this resupply ship faster than via a spaceport/base type of structure? Thanks a lot again!

Oke, now I get it no sneak attacks anymore. But they also attacked my ships and didnt suffer the loss in reputation for it. I suppose you only lose reputation if you destory civilian structures without a war declaration?


Resupplying is a mission just like any other mission, so your fleets won’t do it if you have them on manual control unless you order them to. It would be nice if they auto-refueled, but they only do that under AI control.

A resupply ship is basically a heavily armed, mobile gas miner, similar in effects to a civilian gas miner you see at gas clouds and gas giant planets.

The way you use those is to move them in ahead of your fleet and have them set up shop as a gas station in some non-contested system or gas cloud. Once it’s operational, bring in your fleet to the area and once it arrives give it refuel closest orders and they’ll fly to the supply ship and refuel. Then you can strike into the enemy’s backfield.

The thing to remember about playing the diplomacy game, is you’re human, so you don’t have negative modifier list you apply to your relations like the AI does. You see bad behavior, you get mad, and that’s your version of a -19 bad rep mod against that race.

The AI however can only gauge your trustworthiness on actions you take in game. Attacking someone without a declaration is bad mojo. My guess is both you and your opponent race had very bad rep mods with all other races, because neither of you declared war before shooting. That’s all the AI cared about. Who shot first probably doesn’t make a difference to them.

Jim


_____________________________


(in reply to Gertjan)
Post #: 8
RE: First game - I was losing - 3/28/2010 3:55:35 PM   
Tree Dog


Posts: 129
Joined: 3/27/2010
Status: offline 		Did you try using them, Ashbery ?

What happens if you send a resupply ships to deploy on a giant gas planet which contains only, let's say, hydrogen, and that some of your ships require caslon ? Will they all be supplied or not ?

(in reply to ASHBERY76)
Post #: 9
RE: First game - I was losing - 3/28/2010 4:01:29 PM   
Titanwarrior89


Posts: 3283
Joined: 8/28/2003
From: arkansas
Status: offline 		Hmmm, they ganged up on you. Ill have to watch out for that.......Don't want that to happen to me. Reputation is there some place you can find this or is it something you added in your critique?
quote:

ORIGINAL: Gertjan

I just finished my first trial game with most things automated. I dont remeber the race anymore but I managed to get a good start without any economic problems. I was 1st empire most of the time. I had some minor issues with pirates but my escorts and frigates dealt with them most of the time. I had some trouble though of ordering my 1st fleet through the galaxy. The map and my empire were quite large, so it took them a lot of time to reach destinations. And by the time the reached them, their fuel was quite often low. Where exactly to fleets refuel and is it best/fastest to send them to the nearest refuelling point or to the nearest shipyard? + how can you ensure that your fleet refuels with the refueling ship?

I got into trouble because I got into a bad relationship with one race. They were a close neighbour and we shared some star systems. At one point he started harrassing my ships and I let him do that for a while. I warned him and he said he would stop (but he didnt). Then my advisors said that I should declare war and attack him. I didnt do that since my fleet was occupied chasing pirate bases / having difficulties with refuelling and moving large distances. Once I got my fleet into position I wiped out his mines in our joint system. At that point things went really badly. I got into war with this race and suddenly my reputation in the galaxy was ruined. Everyone hated me. What happened? How could I have avoided this, should I first declare war and then order to attack him? Needless to say, all other empires ganged up on me (even the weaker races) and soon fleets were coming in wave to take my planets :( I was not able to restore my relationships soon enough and the strongest empire send a strong fleet (several cruisers) to my capital and took over the planet. As a result the two starbases were also in their hands and attacked my defending fleet. Now it was only a matter of watching my empire fade away. I didn't want to waste my time doing that.

That was my first game. I hope you can help me with learning some lessons from it.



_____________________________

"Before Guadalcanal the enemy advanced at his pleasure. After Guadalcanal, he retreated at ours".

"Mama, There's Rabbits in the Garden"

(in reply to Gertjan)
Post #: 10
RE: First game - I was losing - 3/28/2010 4:01:56 PM   
lordxorn


Posts: 768
Joined: 12/6/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Webbco

There's also a reported potential bug with resupply ships.

Don't forget you can't deploy resupply ships on FROZEN gas giants.



Are you sure about that, the tip is NOT TO DEPLOY on FROZEN Gas Planets.

Look for regular Gas Planets, and the bug reported is that the Resupply Ship will sometimes undeploy by itself. I think maybe due to the flee behavior, if it set to run from any enemy this could be a problem for a combat support unit. As a work around design your resupply ship, and set behavior to flee when Never.

Gertjan, yes you should have declared war first. But this brings up the point of how were they able to attack your civilian ships without war deccing you? I think I have seen this in my games. Don't know if it is a bug.

Also, before you declare war (to avoid rep drop), make sure all your pieces are in place. Do you forward deployed scouts in place? Resupply ships close enough to the front? Fleets all fueled up?

(in reply to Webbco)
Post #: 11
RE: First game - I was losing - 3/28/2010 4:05:45 PM   
Jim D Burns


Posts: 4013
Joined: 2/25/2002
From: Salida, CA.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Titanwarrior89

Hmmm, they ganged up on you. Ill have to watch out for that.......Don't want that to happen to me. Reputation is there some place you can find this or is it something you added in your critique?


Bottom right area of the diplomacy screen. If you have good or bad rep, a mod will be listed in that section for each race. No mod means neutral rep.

Jim

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(in reply to Titanwarrior89)
Post #: 12
RE: First game - I was losing - 3/28/2010 4:09:38 PM   
Titanwarrior89


Posts: 3283
Joined: 8/28/2003
From: arkansas
Status: offline 		Thanks Jim.

_____________________________

"Before Guadalcanal the enemy advanced at his pleasure. After Guadalcanal, he retreated at ours".

"Mama, There's Rabbits in the Garden"

(in reply to Jim D Burns)
Post #: 13
RE: First game - I was losing - 3/28/2010 4:17:48 PM   
Karrick

 

Posts: 18
Joined: 11/28/2002
Status: offline 		I was paying a pirate fraction to leave my shipping alone....and at the same time searching franaticly for the thier base. One of my exploration ships found a deserted montoring base and when I took it over the pirate base popped up in scanner range. The part that really made me mad was that the pirate base was way out of range of my shipping lanes..and I had been paying him off!.... his ships could not even reach my shipping lanes!!... well ...I had to find 2 gas gaints ..with the proper (fuel ) gases....between my colonies and his base to act as fueling depots for my ships. once found I sent yard ships plus escorts to build gas mining depots so my ships could fuel...once complete I sent my fleet....It sure felt good burning down that pirate base....)

(in reply to Tree Dog)
Post #: 14
RE: First game - I was losing - 3/28/2010 4:21:05 PM   
Shark7


Posts: 7937
Joined: 7/24/2007
From: The Big Nowhere
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Karrick

I was paying a pirate fraction to leave my shipping alone....and at the same time searching franaticly for the thier base. One of my exploration ships found a deserted montoring base and when I took it over the pirate base popped up in scanner range. The part that really made me mad was that the pirate base was way out of range of my shipping lanes..and I had been paying him off!.... his ships could not even reach my shipping lanes!!... well ...I had to find 2 gas gaints ..with the proper (fuel ) gases....between my colonies and his base to act as fueling depots for my ships. once found I sent yard ships plus escorts to build gas mining depots so my ships could fuel...once complete I sent my fleet....It sure felt good burning down that pirate base....)


Pirate: "Pay the protection money or else!"

Admiral: "Eat turbo-lasers."

So very satisfying no doubt.

_____________________________

Distant Worlds Fan

'When in doubt...attack!'

(in reply to Karrick)
Post #: 15
RE: First game - I was losing - 3/28/2010 4:25:33 PM   
ASHBERY76


Posts: 2136
Joined: 10/10/2001
From: England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Webbco
Don't forget you can't deploy resupply ships on FROZEN gas giants.



Yes this should be added to the pedia to stop confusion.

_____________________________


(in reply to Webbco)
Post #: 16
RE: First game - I was losing - 3/28/2010 5:15:10 PM   
Wade1000


Posts: 771
Joined: 10/27/2009
From: California, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Shark7


quote:

ORIGINAL: Karrick

I was paying a pirate fraction to leave my shipping alone....and at the same time searching franaticly for the thier base. One of my exploration ships found a deserted montoring base and when I took it over the pirate base popped up in scanner range. The part that really made me mad was that the pirate base was way out of range of my shipping lanes..and I had been paying him off!.... his ships could not even reach my shipping lanes!!... well ...I had to find 2 gas gaints ..with the proper (fuel ) gases....between my colonies and his base to act as fueling depots for my ships. once found I sent yard ships plus escorts to build gas mining depots so my ships could fuel...once complete I sent my fleet....It sure felt good burning down that pirate base....)


Pirate: "Pay the protection money or else!"

Admiral: "Eat turbo-lasers."

So very satisfying no doubt.

:D
Pirate: "Pay the protection money or else!"

Admiral: "NUTS!"

_____________________________

Wish list:population centers beyond planetary(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Culture):Ships,Ring Orbitals,Sphere Orbitals,Ringworlds,Sphereworlds;ability to create & destroy planets,population centers,stars;AI competently using all advances & features.

(in reply to Shark7)
Post #: 17
RE: First game - I was losing - 3/29/2010 3:45:05 PM   
Gertjan

 

Posts: 698
Joined: 12/9/2009
Status: offline 		Thanks everyone!

(in reply to Wade1000)
Post #: 18
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