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Your PBEM effort may not be as secure as you think

 
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Your PBEM effort may not be as secure as you think - 7/15/2002 7:48:12 AM   
Gary Gossett

 

Posts: 18
Joined: 5/19/2002
From: Western Washington State
Status: offline 		After struggling repeatedly to get a PBEM effort up and running. I just discovered that "secure" PBEM in UV isn't. Perhaps it was all the wrestling I had to go through to discover which file to save and where and which to zip/unzip that caused me to discover that at least US player and probably the IJN player as well have the ability to look at the "secure" play back file BEFORE sending a turn file to the opponent. All that is needed is to go into the launch saved game file pull up the turn you saved-it makes no difference that you do not have the other player's password-put in anything-it will drop you back at the load screen. Next load the playback file and viola! you get to watch the move you just made unfold before your eyes. Don't like it--------what to do?

After I discovered this, I vowed to always zip and mail my file before I peaked-which I do.

However, it appears to me that in addition to a more streamlined and documented PBEM procedure, additional security needs to be in place to insure that a player can't see the efffects of his turn until AFTER his opponent does, i.e. after it is sent.

I would hate to think that anyone would take advantage of this loophole but as long as it is there the question is there- Was that luck or was that too good to be true?

:rolleyes:
Post #: 1
- 7/15/2002 8:45:38 AM   
Drex

 

Posts: 2524
Joined: 9/13/2000
From: Chico,california
Status: offline 		I was unaware of this problem but it definitely reinforces my feelings that the pbem play in UV needs to be revamped beig time.

(in reply to Gary Gossett)
Post #: 2
I just noticed something similar - 7/15/2002 8:53:32 AM   
PBYPilot


Posts: 183
Joined: 3/13/2002
From: Marina del Rey, CA
Status: offline 		I finally got to some carrier combat in the only PBEM game I am playing. Got off an unanswered strike as Americans against a Jap transport group landing at Tulagi (Coral Sea scenario) on May 9. So I prepped my May 10 move, zipped it and sent it back.

A little while later I figured I'd go back and rewatch the replay to relive the "glorious victory." When I selected combat replay I first noticed it was different, then I noticed the date displayed said May 10. The events were a follow-on to the events of May 9! A sub sunk something and a task force was spotted.

All I did was watch the combat replay after I prepped and sent my May 10 orders. The PBEM switch was selected all the time (i.e. no selection of head to head or computer control was involved.) I also didn't zip or unzip or move files around. Apparently the computer creates a combat replay file and places it in game save slot 001 after the US player plots his move.

Not good. The fix sounds like the software should not create a Combat Replay file on Player 2's computer in PBEM mode, only on Player 1's.

PBYPilot: over to you.

Edit: After re-reading the original post I realize that I may have accidently selected the last save game file I created, clicked cancel when I saw it asking for player 1's password and then looked at the combat replay, with the aforementioned results.

Edit 2: Confirmed it! With the help of my esteemed opponent, we palyed another turn. The combat replay he sent me with his May 11 orders was indeed a repeat of the one I had seen before.

I plotted my May 11 orders, then left UV (don't know if this is critcal for the bug). When I went back I selected Combat Replay and it was still May 10. That's ok. Then I selected the save file I had created for my opponent and canceled out when it asked for the Player 1 password. Selecting the Combat Replay again, it now gave me the May 11 results, before I sent them to my opponent.

Possible fix is that the combat replay should not be created until AFTER the Player 1 password is succesfully entered.

(in reply to Gary Gossett)
Post #: 3
- 7/15/2002 9:17:29 PM   
Wilhammer

 

Posts: 449
Joined: 5/24/2002
From: Out in the Sticks of Rockingham County, North Caro
Status: offline 		What? This is HORRIBLE.

...and boy, did I have a strange one on Sunday night.

Loaded up my latest move from Oleg, and played it out, and after I pushed the end phase buttone to save and send, I got an error message I never saw before, to paraphrase, "unable to load save.bmp", and then it CTDed after I closed the box.

It was late, and I did not try again.

This morning, at a different PC, I ran the move again, and it worked fine, EXCEPT: The RESULTS were DIFFERENT!.

How can that be? In the run that resulted in a crash, his PM bombers hit Gili-Gili and damged my IJN unloading MAru, enough to knock it down by a combined 50% in systems and flotation damage, and it killed a few men.

This morning, I ran it twice on my office PC, and the results were the same both times, but not compared to last nights Home PC run, this time the PM strikes, about 4 of them, all low-level bombers, failed to hit a thing.

It will also be noted that in Sunday's failed play, some 17s flew out of Australia to hit me, while this morning that did not happen. No 17s showed up.

I have not been able to make the time to repeat this bug, but I will try to tomorrow.

(in reply to Gary Gossett)
Post #: 4
- 7/15/2002 9:26:11 PM   
Wilhammer

 

Posts: 449
Joined: 5/24/2002
From: Out in the Sticks of Rockingham County, North Caro
Status: offline 		The IJN player does NOT get this behaviour. This is because the Jap player sends out just his plot to the Allied player, while what the Allied player sends is a combination of his plot and the Jap plot. The 001 file sent by the Jap player is the results of that, so it the results must be ggenerated on the Allied player's computer, and are in theory unlockable only by the Japanese player.

If the results were run on the Japanese player's PC, it could be repeated until the results were just right.

According to your report, the results are compiled on the Allied machine, and the results can be viewed as well before they are sent, which means the Allied player could do over as needed until things happened his way.

Dang.

I think we need a critical patch repair for this, for once this gets out, PBEM as a fair means of play is kaput.

(in reply to Gary Gossett)
Post #: 5
- 7/15/2002 9:35:58 PM   
MatrixFan

 

Posts: 29
Joined: 6/10/2002
From: Frankfurt, Deutschland
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Wilhammer
[B]
Dang.

I think we need a critical patch repair for this, for once this gets out, PBEM as a fair means of play is kaput. [/B][/QUOTE]

Yeah but having this tread on the forums doesnt exactly help either just gets the word around. Be nice to have em reply and then just deleate it might stop people from trying it out.

(in reply to Gary Gossett)
Post #: 6
- 7/15/2002 9:53:24 PM   
Wilhammer

 

Posts: 449
Joined: 5/24/2002
From: Out in the Sticks of Rockingham County, North Caro
Status: offline 		Yep, critical bugs like this should be vocally sent to Matrix and not to the board, but why else put up a bug group?

BTW, I found something horrible last week and used private channels to confirm at report it to Matrix.

Oh well the cat is out of the bag. Too late to do anything about it preventing it; it is time to round up the cat.

(in reply to Gary Gossett)
Post #: 7
Not to Worry - 7/15/2002 11:29:50 PM   
denisonh


Posts: 2194
Joined: 12/21/2001
From: Upstate SC
Status: offline 		Hey MatrixFan,

I have read the thread but have no intentions of "cheating" in our current PBEM game.

As the saying goes at the institution I attended to get my undegraduate degree "I will not lie, cheat, steal, or tolerate those who do"

_____________________________


"Life is tough, it's even tougher when you're stupid" -SGT John M. Stryker, USMC

(in reply to Gary Gossett)
Post #: 8
- 7/16/2002 1:07:31 AM   
David Heath


Posts: 3274
Joined: 3/29/2000
From: Staten Island NY
Status: offline 		We already have it patch and being tested. We should have a new UV version with some fixed items, new features and any known PBEM bugs fixed.

This will not be the big bug update we wanted since we wanted to release. This will be the more of a what we fixed up until now with the PBEM corrections. We do not want our customers PBEM games being in question and you can expect we will also react quickly to patching any such loopholes in the future.

We are still working on the bug update that will be coming out over the next few weeks. I post what you can expect in this patch later today.

David

(in reply to Gary Gossett)
Post #: 9
- 7/16/2002 3:15:56 AM   
Drex

 

Posts: 2524
Joined: 9/13/2000
From: Chico,california
Status: offline 		Now that is customer service. That is why I continue to buy Matrix Games. Thank you David.

(in reply to Gary Gossett)
Post #: 10
No smilies here - 7/16/2002 11:03:49 AM   
PBYPilot


Posts: 183
Joined: 3/13/2002
From: Marina del Rey, CA
Status: offline 		I'm a little shocked by the attitude of certain posters to this thread that seem to suugest that Gary Gossett did anything wrong by posting his bug discovery on the general forum.

Hundreds or thousands of of UV purchasers are playing PBEM UV games. It's ridiculous to suggest that they should not know that there is a major bug that can be exploited to give one side a overwhelming advantage. The suggestion that such a bug should be communicated "vocally" (sic) to Matrix but not mentioned to gameplayers is repugnant. And the only people who are unhappy that the cat is out of the bag are people who have a vested interest in keeping the cat in the bag.

When UV players know the nature of the problem, they can deal with as they choose: they can conclude or postpone their games, they can take steps to minimize the problem, or they can choose to continue on the basis of trust, as I and my opponent have done.

But the idea that it should be suppressed, or not made public, so as not to endanger opinion or profits is dangerous and reprehesible. The world has too many Thalidomide vicitms and cancer deaths who have their roots in such thinking.

Besides, where should we hear about such problems, if not the UV Forum? On one of the independent Game news sites like SimHQ or Computer Games Online? How would that make Matrix look? How would that affect the opinions of potential purchasers?

Matrix Games has received well deserved compliments and praise for their outstanding customer service and product support, including from me. About the only way they would lose the respect and admiration that I feel for them is to discover that they participated in or condoned such a "cover-up."

PBYPilot

(in reply to Gary Gossett)
Post #: 11
- 7/16/2002 11:17:53 AM   
Drex

 

Posts: 2524
Joined: 9/13/2000
From: Chico,california
Status: offline 		Hear Hear!

(in reply to Gary Gossett)
Post #: 12
Gary has done the right thing.. - 7/16/2002 12:07:19 PM   
Ross Moorhouse


Posts: 2354
Joined: 1/5/2001
From: Sydney, Australia
Status: offline 		In no way has Gary done anything wrong. This is what we want to hear so we can jump on these and fix the bugs asap.

This PBEM bug is number one fix in the 1.20 patch and is the very first thing we are confirming as we test.

_____________________________

Ross Moorhouse

Project Manager
www.csosimtek.com
Email: rossm@csogroup.org

(in reply to Gary Gossett)
Post #: 13
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