Is it possible?

Matrix Games Forums

Forums Register Login Photo Gallery Member List Search Calendars FAQ

My Profile Inbox Address Book My Subscription My Forums Log Out

Is it possible?

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

Users viewing this topic: none

Printable Version

All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> Is it possible?

Page: [1]

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

Is it possible? - 3/30/2010 6:02:18 PM

Who Cares

Posts: 67
Joined: 2/2/2010
Status: offline

That the air routine is inverted? By that I mean instead of (for example) a 70 experience pilot having a 70% chance to hit he has a 30% chance while a 30 experience pilot has a 70% chance?

I have seen far too many PBYs hitting with torpedoes on naval attack with experience below 20. And this latest run:

Pictured below is the squadron that made 75% hits (2 planes attack with 2 bombs each and 3 hit). I can only guess that the 2 pilots that made this attack are the ones with fatigue in the 20s (the ones in the teens probably were the ones that attacked yesterday). They have an average of 33 experience, 20 naval attack, 16.5 low level naval attack (it was at 100 feet), and 28.5 straf (which neither did according to the combat report but both got skill-ups for). Just wondering if someone could look into this.

Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Gasmata at 104,129

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid spotted at 37 NM, estimated altitude 8,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 9 minutes

Allied aircraft
Beaufighter Ic x 2
P-38E Lightning x 5

No Allied losses

Japanese Ships
CM Tsugaru, Bomb hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage

Japanese ground losses:
44 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 2 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Aircraft Attacking:
2 x Beaufighter Ic bombing from 100 feet
Naval Attack: 2 x 250 lb SAP Bomb

Attachment (1)

Post #: 1

RE: Is it possible? - 3/30/2010 6:18:10 PM

Who Cares

Posts: 67
Joined: 2/2/2010
Status: offline

I should mention that a few turns ago I had about 80 SBDs with experience in the 70s and 80s achieve 19 total hits on a well reconed base from 4 hexes out. Oh, the above attack was on an unspotted (before this phase) undamaged TF at sea not docked in a port.

< Message edited by Who Cares -- 3/30/2010 6:19:41 PM >

(in reply to Who Cares)

Post #: 2

RE: Is it possible? - 3/30/2010 6:36:14 PM

FOW

Posts: 499
Joined: 11/6/2008
From: England
Status: offline

My initial response would be that it appears the pilots were using NavB skill instead of LowN skill - but pure conjecture on my part

FO Wright D couldn't have participated in the mission, despite 25 Fatigue, as he's stood down (group reserve).
Or does this change at the end of a turn, anyone know the answer to that ???

< Message edited by FOW -- 3/30/2010 6:39:17 PM >

(in reply to Who Cares)

Post #: 3

RE: Is it possible? - 3/30/2010 7:04:07 PM

Nomad

Posts: 5905
Joined: 9/5/2001
From: West Yellowstone, Montana
Status: offline

Since your altitude was set for 100', they used straffing skill( it is easy to tell since you had some pilots gain some - they are in green in straff). Your straf skills are in the mide 30's to mid 40's - not terrible.

_____________________________

(in reply to FOW)

Post #: 4

RE: Is it possible? - 3/30/2010 10:53:49 PM

Who Cares

Posts: 67
Joined: 2/2/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nomad

Since your altitude was set for 100', they used straffing skill( it is easy to tell since you had some pilots gain some - they are in green in straff). Your straf skills are in the mide 30's to mid 40's - not terrible.

I am guessing since the "LowN" is in green at the top, that THIS is the skill used for the mission selected. Or is that wrong?

(in reply to Nomad)

Post #: 5

RE: Is it possible? - 3/31/2010 2:57:02 AM

Nomad

Posts: 5905
Joined: 9/5/2001
From: West Yellowstone, Montana
Status: offline

No, for a fighter bomber operating at 100' the skill used is straf. As you can see that is the skill that has green entries for the pilots indicating that they got a skill increase that turn. The LowN being green is casused by you having the mouse hovered on it. Most screen capture programs do not record the mouse icon.

_____________________________

(in reply to Who Cares)

Post #: 6

RE: Is it possible? - 3/31/2010 1:39:38 PM

Who Cares

Posts: 67
Joined: 2/2/2010
Status: offline

Well regardless, fatigue says it was Wright and Blackwell that flew and 75% hits with that experience is something that should be looked at. Love how people always try to explain things away and then when it is actually looked at lo and behold there really WAS a problem.

(in reply to Nomad)

Post #: 7

RE: Is it possible? - 3/31/2010 1:59:12 PM

Takeshi

Posts: 51
Joined: 8/11/2009
From: West TN
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Who Cares

Well regardless, fatigue says it was Wright and Blackwell that flew and 75% hits with that experience is something that should be looked at. Love how people always try to explain things away and then when it is actually looked at lo and behold there really WAS a problem.

I love how people ask questions and get sarcastic when they don't get the answers they want. It looks like you got three hits out of 4 bombs dropped. Your pilot with the highest strafing skill level is 47 with several others in the 40's. These results are close to the tail of the bell curve but not beyond possibility. My experience is naval bombing is close to historical. I have yet to have a PBY perform a torpedo attack. That said, it does seem to me that TB have a higher hit rate in torpedo attacks than historical, but I have not performed any tests.

(in reply to Who Cares)

Post #: 8

RE: Is it possible? - 3/31/2010 2:24:52 PM

foliveti

Posts: 371
Joined: 9/12/2002
From: Buffalo, NY
Status: offline

I have had a lot of luck with PBYs torpedoing Japanese AKs and APs in the PI area early war. This was especially true after I transported the Air HQ to Mindanao. My opponent did not have any fighters in the area and there were pretty significant losses. That operation was more or less shut down once he took some airbases in the area. I think only the US PBYs will carry torpedoes, and I have not had them in a contested area with an air HQ since then.

_____________________________

Frank

(in reply to Takeshi)

Post #: 9

RE: Is it possible? - 3/31/2010 2:42:05 PM

Who Cares

Posts: 67
Joined: 2/2/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Takeshi

quote:

ORIGINAL: Who Cares

Well regardless, fatigue says it was Wright and Blackwell that flew and 75% hits with that experience is something that should be looked at. Love how people always try to explain things away and then when it is actually looked at lo and behold there really WAS a problem.

I love how people ask questions and get sarcastic when they don't get the answers they want. It looks like you got three hits out of 4 bombs dropped. Your pilot with the highest strafing skill level is 47 with several others in the 40's. These results are close to the tail of the bell curve but not beyond possibility. My experience is naval bombing is close to historical. I have yet to have a PBY perform a torpedo attack. That said, it does seem to me that TB have a higher hit rate in torpedo attacks than historical, but I have not performed any tests.

Ok, direct question to you Takeshi:

Are YOU saying it isn't worth the few minutes it would take someone to look at the code to make sure the formula is correct?

That's ALL I am asking someone to do. Now if that is an unreasonable request on my part, then excuuuuuuuuuse me! If it isn't unreasonable, then YOU are excused.

(in reply to Takeshi)

Post #: 10

RE: Is it possible? - 3/31/2010 5:09:57 PM

Lifer

Posts: 384
Joined: 6/8/2003
From: Caprica
Status: offline

You need to remember where you posted. If you think you have a bug in the routines, then post in the Tech Support with a save before and after. In this forum, you will get opinions, some learned and some guessed at. My guess is the same as Takeshi's response. Level bombers will use LowN and skip bomb when set at 100'. FBs will use their Strafing skill when operating at 100'. Eventhough the -Ic has two engines, it is still a FB in game terms.

Greg

_____________________________

Man does not enter battle to fight, but for victory. He does everything that he can to avoid the first and obtain the second.
Ardant du Picq

(in reply to Who Cares)

Post #: 11

RE: Is it possible? - 3/31/2010 5:24:19 PM

Nikademus

Posts: 25684
Joined: 5/27/2000
From: Alien spacecraft
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Who Cares
Are YOU saying it isn't worth the few minutes it would take someone to look at the code to make sure the formula is correct?

Without a save? no. It isn't. I'm a dev and have worked closely with the programmers and have seen the code. Without a good save that reproduces a problem/potential problem, there's no such thing as taking a "few minutes to look at the code" because the code is vast and time consuming to debug.

If you have a reproducible save, please post it and a description of the issue in the Tech Support sub-forum.

_____________________________

(in reply to Who Cares)

Post #: 12

RE: Is it possible? - 3/31/2010 5:49:49 PM

Who Cares

Posts: 67
Joined: 2/2/2010
Status: offline

If there is more than 1 spot where this routine is and/or you can't go to it in a few minutes (and by a "few" I mean 2 or 3 tops) and check, then frankly you all aren't much for programmers. I mean back in the 60's we had "modularized code" and put comments in for what routines are what so we could find them when we had to track something down. And back in those days we couldn't even type in "search for XXX" we had to dig it up through pages of printouts. That was almost 50 YEARS ago I could find a routine like this in a stack of 5000 80 column cards in just a "few" minutes!!

(in reply to Nikademus)

Post #: 13

RE: Is it possible? - 3/31/2010 6:01:46 PM

Nomad

Posts: 5905
Joined: 9/5/2001
From: West Yellowstone, Montana
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Who Cares

Well regardless, fatigue says it was Wright and Blackwell that flew and 75% hits with that experience is something that should be looked at. Love how people always try to explain things away and then when it is actually looked at lo and behold there really WAS a problem.

Let's get this straight. I did NOT say there was no problem. You don't even seem to know what mode your aircraft were in or what skill they were using. I tried to explain that and then you just brush it off. If you don't want any information then quit asking for help. If you have a problem with the game post your save file and an explaination of your repeatable problem in the tech support sub forum. When you post in the general forum it is assumed you are asking for information and or help. You seem to have some ajenda you want to pursue and facts are not to be used.

_____________________________

(in reply to Who Cares)

Post #: 14

RE: Is it possible? - 3/31/2010 6:06:34 PM

witpqs

Posts: 26087
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Who Cares

If there is more than 1 spot where this routine is and/or you can't go to it in a few minutes (and by a "few" I mean 2 or 3 tops) and check, then frankly you all aren't much for programmers. I mean back in the 60's we had "modularized code" and put comments in for what routines are what so we could find them when we had to track something down. And back in those days we couldn't even type in "search for XXX" we had to dig it up through pages of printouts. That was almost 50 YEARS ago I could find a routine like this in a stack of 5000 80 column cards in just a "few" minutes!!

You are making much more basic mistakes here. The original code was not written by the "you all aren't much for programmers" that you refer to. 5,000? You're off by two orders of magnitude.

I would like to see you find all the relevant somethings - and vet the code performance - in half a million lines (including subroutines) of someone else's code that had been worked over several times in the interim and was poorly documented.

Insulting the volunteers who work on the code now might make you feel better, but it doesn't help anybody.

(in reply to Who Cares)

Post #: 15

RE: Is it possible? - 3/31/2010 6:20:53 PM

Takeshi

Posts: 51
Joined: 8/11/2009
From: West TN
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Who Cares

quote:

ORIGINAL: Takeshi

quote:

ORIGINAL: Who Cares

Well regardless, fatigue says it was Wright and Blackwell that flew and 75% hits with that experience is something that should be looked at. Love how people always try to explain things away and then when it is actually looked at lo and behold there really WAS a problem.

I love how people ask questions and get sarcastic when they don't get the answers they want. It looks like you got three hits out of 4 bombs dropped. Your pilot with the highest strafing skill level is 47 with several others in the 40's. These results are close to the tail of the bell curve but not beyond possibility. My experience is naval bombing is close to historical. I have yet to have a PBY perform a torpedo attack. That said, it does seem to me that TB have a higher hit rate in torpedo attacks than historical, but I have not performed any tests.

Ok, direct question to you Takeshi:

Are YOU saying it isn't worth the few minutes it would take someone to look at the code to make sure the formula is correct?

That's ALL I am asking someone to do. Now if that is an unreasonable request on my part, then excuuuuuuuuuse me! If it isn't unreasonable, then YOU are excused.

LOL. If you read my post, I never discussed whether it was worth the time to look at the code. I don't know the answer to that question. I commented on your sarcasm to those posters who did not appear to agree with you and pointed out that the combat results you posted did not seem unreasonable.

(in reply to Who Cares)

Post #: 16

RE: Is it possible? - 3/31/2010 6:29:41 PM

Takeshi

Posts: 51
Joined: 8/11/2009
From: West TN
Status: offline

In the interests of accuracy I should add that when I write "historical" I mean my perception of it. The dog ate my piles of Pacific War combat results.

(in reply to Takeshi)

Post #: 17

RE: Is it possible? - 3/31/2010 6:34:13 PM

Nikademus

Posts: 25684
Joined: 5/27/2000
From: Alien spacecraft
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Who Cares

If there is more than 1 spot where this routine is and/or you can't go to it in a few minutes (and by a "few" I mean 2 or 3 tops) and check, then frankly you all aren't much for programmers.

I've given you the process by which your concern can be addressed. Use it....or don't.

_____________________________

(in reply to Who Cares)

Post #: 18

RE: Is it possible? - 3/31/2010 6:40:37 PM

Don Bowen

Posts: 8183
Joined: 7/13/2000
From: Georgetown, Texas, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

quote:

ORIGINAL: Who Cares

If there is more than 1 spot where this routine is and/or you can't go to it in a few minutes (and by a "few" I mean 2 or 3 tops) and check, then frankly you all aren't much for programmers.

I've given you the process by which your concern can be addressed. Use it....or don't.