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RE: Price - 4/5/2010 11:43:36 PM   
TargAK

 

Posts: 40
Joined: 4/5/2010
Status: offline 		It was also stated in the manual for Kharkov.

"Coming Soon: Across the Dnepr Mark II

SSG is pleased to announce that a new version of the popular Across the Dnepr scenario will be available as a scenario for the Kharkov system. The new Across the Dnepr will have the following features:
New, larger map
Revised Order of Battle
New unit artwork
Fully compatible with the Kharkov game system (will need Kharkov to run)New Mystery Variants

Discount for existing Across the Dnepr users
Pricing and release timing will be announced in due course"

This was in the manual addendum for Kharkov.

As far as your argument about whats fair in regards to Matrix not keeping good records I will say that that is not my problem nor is it my concern if other people fail to register the serial number. Perhaps this would be a good learning experience for them and in the future they would register the serial number.
It may be harsh but if they did not care enough to register the serial number than I do not care that they would not have gotten a discount (if one would have been given).

You have made it clear that no discount will be given even though it was clearly promised. Fine I can deal with that and in spite of that I purchased the new add on. What I don't appreciate is having to spell this out for you. Perhaps it would be better for you to touch base with SSG and prepare a statement about the change to the promise made and not fulfilled for whatever reason.


What's done is done and I am still disappointed . I am sure I will enjoy the product but the transaction has left a sour taste in my mouth.

(in reply to Erik Rutins)
Post #: 31
RE: Price - 4/5/2010 11:53:18 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TARG
It was also stated in the manual for Kharkov.
"Coming Soon: Across the Dnepr Mark II
SSG is pleased to announce that a new version of the popular Across the Dnepr scenario will be available as a scenario for the Kharkov system. The new Across the Dnepr will have the following features:
New, larger map
Revised Order of Battle
New unit artwork
Fully compatible with the Kharkov game system (will need Kharkov to run)New Mystery Variants
Discount for existing Across the Dnepr users
Pricing and release timing will be announced in due course"
This was in the manual addendum for Kharkov.


I didn't realize that and I have no excuse for not realizing that. If we put it in the manual, we should have followed through on it. Frankly, I wish someone had brought this up here before release where we would have seen it. I can only say to this that we set the final base price with the knowledge that we could not offer a discount.

quote:

As far as your argument about whats fair in regards to Matrix not keeping good records I will say that that is not my problem nor is it my concern if other people fail to register the serial number. Perhaps this would be a good learning experience for them and in the future they would register the serial number.


I agree that a discount should not have been promised if we could not offer it. I think this all comes down to some disorganization here and a miscommunication with SSG. I do know that back in 2008 we probably thought that a discount was possible but the pricing was also non-existent at that point, that decision only gets made close to release.

quote:

It may be harsh but if they did not care enough to register the serial number than I do not care that they would not have gotten a discount (if one would have been given).


Note that the logistical issue is not just about not registering or about us not having all the serial numbers at this point. As best as I can tell now, I believe some copies of ATD were also sold without serialization as it was very early in the serial number process, I think it was the first game with serial numbers.

quote:

You have made it clear that no discount will be given even though it was clearly promised. Fine I can deal with that and in spite of that I purchased the new add on. What I don't appreciate is having to spell this out for you. Perhaps it would be better for you to touch base with SSG and prepare a statement about the change to the promise made and not fulfilled for whatever reason.


The reason you had to spell it out to me is that I was completely flat-footed. I'm sorry I was not well informed on this and I clearly should have been if it was printed in our manual. We clearly should have handled this better pre-release in terms of explaining the pricing and the fact that the discount would not be offered.

quote:

What's done is done and I am still disappointed . I am sure I will enjoy the product but the transaction has left a sour taste in my mouth.


Understood, for what it's worth, I'm sorry about that.


_____________________________

Erik Rutins
CEO, Matrix Games LLC



For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.

(in reply to TargAK)
Post #: 32
RE: Price - 4/5/2010 11:59:48 PM   
Lützow


Posts: 1517
Joined: 7/22/2008
From: Germany
Status: offline 		Frankly, I don't understand this business decision, but oh well.

With the expansion for almost same price as the basic game, why didn't you single that out and sold it as stand-alone? Making it easier for new customers who may be more interested in Dnepr theatre. On the other hand the user-created content is free for Kharkov owners. Don't you think AtD would sell better with four scenarios instead of one?

Not that I do care much or argue about this - it's just a deja-vu-feeling from WitP:AE. Myself I'm going to download the patch, as I'm more interested in Budapest anyway, and will wait for next holiday sale in order to acquire AtD.

(in reply to ComradeP)
Post #: 33
RE: Price - 4/6/2010 12:39:50 AM   
Rosseau

 

Posts: 2757
Joined: 9/13/2009
Status: offline 		Was just going to say the same thing, Lutzow. It was so nice of them to put the three "free" scenarios in the Kharkov patch, but they shouldn't have. Even an SSG addict like me can't justify AtD now. But I might have with four scenarios included!

And because SSG sells in such "low" volume, they probably need to charge $40 to just get by. It's a tough situation. Like many of you, I have occasionally bought games to support the developers, but I can't on this one. The needs of the real charities are just too great at this time.


(in reply to Lützow)
Post #: 34
RE: Price - 4/6/2010 1:29:02 AM   
Nebogipfel


Posts: 98
Joined: 3/16/2010
Status: offline 		Hi  Erik,

I dont think, that you are responsible for SSG´s communication problems.
It should have been SSG´s turn, to tell you, what they had "promised".

To support a small company is fine, but if its so important, where are they ?







< Message edited by Nebogipfel -- 4/6/2010 1:31:20 AM >

(in reply to Rosseau)
Post #: 35
RE: Price - 4/6/2010 1:34:06 AM   
Carl Myers

 

Posts: 136
Joined: 9/16/2003
Status: offline
quote:

To support a small company is fine, but if its so important, where are they ?


Probably just getting up, it is early morning in Aussie land.

(in reply to Nebogipfel)
Post #: 36
RE: Price - 4/6/2010 1:56:26 AM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline 		Guys, please do not get down on SSG, the price was set with the knowledge that we could not do a discount (they did ask us if we could, we just didn't realize it had been publicly announced to create an expectation) and it was set as low as they could afford it to be while continuing to make games like this.

_____________________________

Erik Rutins
CEO, Matrix Games LLC



For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.

(in reply to Carl Myers)
Post #: 37
RE: Price - 4/6/2010 2:28:13 AM   
TheWombat_matrixforum

 

Posts: 469
Joined: 8/2/2003
Status: offline 		Like it or not, this type of wargame is a very niche product. Niche products cost more, it's pretty much a fact of life. If it was a mainstream game there would be a market dynamic keeping the price down but face it, there isn't much/any competition here. All the wargames we like--the SSG stuff, the Panther stuff, the upcoming Grigsby War in the East game, etc.--is pretty much unique. And even if we all buy a copy (and we probably will) that won't exactly make these guys millionaires.

Do they cost more than I want to pay? Yeah. But hell, I paid about the same if not more for the C64 versions of stuff like this, so, eh, what the hell. It's not like I buy more than a few a year, as there AREN'T more than a few a year....

(in reply to Erik Rutins)
Post #: 38
RE: Price - 4/6/2010 3:17:01 AM   
tide1527


Posts: 24
Joined: 3/6/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TheWombat

Like it or not, this type of wargame is a very niche product. Niche products cost more, it's pretty much a fact of life. If it was a mainstream game there would be a market dynamic keeping the price down but face it, there isn't much/any competition here. All the wargames we like--the SSG stuff, the Panther stuff, the upcoming Grigsby War in the East game, etc.--is pretty much unique. And even if we all buy a copy (and we probably will) that won't exactly make these guys millionaires.

Do they cost more than I want to pay? Yeah. But hell, I paid about the same if not more for the C64 versions of stuff like this, so, eh, what the hell. It's not like I buy more than a few a year, as there AREN'T more than a few a year....



I agree with TheWombat he pretty much hit the nail on the head. I never played the Operation Konrad scenario or it's sub scenarios so there's a bonus in it for me. And having owned the original ATD and now getting a look at what's been done to ATD to run on the Kharkov engine I will say it is worth the price of admission.
As for Gregor stepping on it and forgetting he promised a discount ( TWO YEARS AGO!! ) I can't remember what I told the wife a week ago It's not Matrix's fault or problem.
My 2 pence

< Message edited by tide1527 -- 4/6/2010 3:19:27 AM >

(in reply to TheWombat_matrixforum)
Post #: 39
RE: Price - 4/6/2010 3:42:34 AM   
mariovalleemtl


Posts: 360
Joined: 8/9/2000
From: Montreal
Status: offline 		Come on guys, don't be cheap. SSG and Matrix publish amazing niche Grognards games and they need our support. I play more then 100 hours with all of them so it's a good deal

_____________________________


(in reply to Erik Rutins)
Post #: 40
RE: Price - 4/6/2010 5:48:17 AM   
Gregor_SSG


Posts: 681
Joined: 3/6/2003
Status: offline 		Please don't blame Eric or Matrix for the confusion about the discount for owners of the original ATD. It was our intention to do this, and when I made those comments it was my understanding that it would be possible. It turns out not to be the case, simply because the original ATD was released a long time ago, and Matrix' systems were simply not as advanced as they are now.

The blame lies with me for making a promise before I was 100% certain that I could deliver, and I apologise for the raised expectations and confusion caused. We will redress the issue with the release of our next product, though in the spirit of lessons learned from today's problems I'm not going to be more specific than that.

On the subject of value though, the discount was only ever intended to be small. I find that, if I do it properly, a turn of ATD can take at least 30 minutes, often more (playing a good player, maybe an hour). The scenario is huge and the consequences of a single decision, especially for the Russians, can be catastrophic, so the game demands concentration. At the current price it is still some of the best value for money for an entertainment dollar that you are going to find anywhere in the world.

Gregor

_____________________________

Vice President, Strategic Studies Group
See http://www.ssg.com.au and http://www.ssg.com.au/forums/
for info and free scenarios.

(in reply to Erik Rutins)
Post #: 41
RE: Price - 4/6/2010 5:58:46 AM   
parusski


Posts: 4804
Joined: 5/8/2000
From: Jackson Tn
Status: offline 		Erik, I just spent 10 minutes composing, posting and editing(read deleting) a rant about the price. But, it's gone.

Everyone just calm down. If you do not want to pay forty bucks, then don't. But please don't whine when quality games(not Democracy though)stop appearing. In 10 years on this forum, through 8 years of buying 42 games from Matrix I have never complained about anything that I can recall. I even tossed in my cash for WITP, even though that game did not then, does not now and NEVER will interest me. I paid for it to support one of the few, few companies I really admire. And one of the few companies that actually has my loyalty. Several of those 42 games I have purchased ended up off my pc and on my shelf, but those that did not-WOW.

Just look at SPWAW, I have lost track of exactly how long since Matrix acquired and started supporting that game. SPWAW was the first pc wargame my two sons played with me back in 2000(Eric was 12, Evan was 11). They still play that game and they are in college. You do not need an inelegant lecture from me. Just a reminder. Matrix is not about giving us free, or what an individual customer thinks of as inexpensive, games.

I too wish the price a little lower. But I wish some people had never gotten elected El presidente, but it ain't changing.

As a certain long winded politician said yesterday, "I hope I answered your question".
Yes, I know there was no question.

I AM BUYING THE GAME.

_____________________________

"I hate newspapermen. They come into camp and pick up their camp rumors and print them as facts. I regard them as spies, which, in truth, they are. If I killed them all there would be news from Hell before breakfast."- W.T. Sherman

(in reply to Erik Rutins)
Post #: 42
RE: Price - 4/6/2010 8:06:21 AM   
planetbrain


Posts: 88
Joined: 1/27/2006
Status: offline 		Well, I had it firmly in mind to get this expansion, but because of what I see to be a steep price I'm not so sure!
My first reaction on seeing the price was definitely one of disappointment.


_____________________________

'Mostly harmless'

(in reply to parusski)
Post #: 43
RE: Price - 4/6/2010 8:42:47 AM   
Hexagon


Posts: 1133
Joined: 6/14/2009
Status: offline 		To expansive for me, is an add-on, i expect a 15 euros price in the worst situation but 30 euros... i can buy better things by this price (even wait for a 30% discount isnt an option for me) you loss one buyer.

PD: EU III complete 13 euros, Hail to throne 20, EU Rome Gold 9 euros... and can continue


(in reply to planetbrain)
Post #: 44
RE: Price - 4/6/2010 9:10:11 AM   
modrow

 

Posts: 1100
Joined: 8/27/2006
Status: offline 		Gregor_SSG, Erik,

I just want to add a few comments:

I) I just bought in spite of the pricing. Reasons, ordered by declining relevance:

a) I want to keep Matrix in business, they provide good games for a niche market and I really can't buy any of those space games to do so... not my genre, sorry. Actually, my main motivation here is that I want Matrix to be around long enough to provide WitP III in time for my retirement some 25 years from now . I calculated that some of my current AE PBEMs are likely to end by that point of time.

b) I want to keep SSG in business. They have been providing nice war games, and there are not many quality providers in this genre.

c) ATD was the best game/scenario of the entire series. I played it more than any of its successors including Kharkov, so it may be interesting. (Frankly, though, it is not likely I will play it much. I even deinstalled Kharkov ever since AE is out, because that eats all my playing time).

II) The problem with the pricing of this product (apart from the communication disaster) is that it forces you to own Kharkov in order to run ATD, so you have paid for the new engine, while reusing part of the work done for ATD (actually, without having looked at the product I cannot say to how big an extent), which owners of the old expansion clearly have paid for. So yes, clearly if you own the old expansion you are made to repay for parts of what you have paid for. There was a similar problem with WitP AE, and I think the decision made there was the correct way to proceed. For future releases, please stick to that approach (i.e. standalone with rebate for owners of the original product, which in this case would be Kharkov, for which none of the technical problems recited exists).

III) (A bit tongue in cheek in order to finish this with a light note and, of course, promoting my favourite horse in the Matrix stable - sorry Gregor, I hope you understand Erik )

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gregor_SSG
The scenario is huge and the consequences of a single decision, especially for the Russians, can be catastrophic, so the game demands concentration. At the current price it is still some of the best value for money for an entertainment dollar that you are going to find anywhere in the world.


If this is what you are after, the best you can buy for your money is AE. Go, get it now (or after your next paycheck) !!!

Hartwig

< Message edited by hartwig.modrow -- 4/6/2010 9:14:00 AM >

(in reply to Gregor_SSG)
Post #: 45
RE: Price - 4/6/2010 9:12:34 AM   
modrow

 

Posts: 1100
Joined: 8/27/2006
Status: offline 		Parusski,

quote:

ORIGINAL: parusski

Erik, I just spent 10 minutes composing, posting and editing(read deleting) a rant about the price. But, it's gone.

Everyone just calm down. If you do not want to pay forty bucks, then don't. But please don't whine when quality games(not Democracy though)stop appearing. In 10 years on this forum, through 8 years of buying 42 games from Matrix I have never complained about anything that I can recall. I even tossed in my cash for WITP, even though that game did not then, does not now and NEVER will interest me. I paid for it to support one of the few, few companies I really admire. And one of the few companies that actually has my loyalty. Several of those 42 games I have purchased ended up off my pc and on my shelf, but those that did not-WOW.

Just look at SPWAW, I have lost track of exactly how long since Matrix acquired and started supporting that game. SPWAW was the first pc wargame my two sons played with me back in 2000(Eric was 12, Evan was 11). They still play that game and they are in college. You do not need an inelegant lecture from me. Just a reminder. Matrix is not about giving us free, or what an individual customer thinks of as inexpensive, games.

I too wish the price a little lower. But I wish some people had never gotten elected El presidente, but it ain't changing.

As a certain long winded politician said yesterday, "I hope I answered your question".
Yes, I know there was no question.

I AM BUYING THE GAME.


excellent post, same set of mind as here apart from the assessment of WitP .

Hartwig

(in reply to parusski)
Post #: 46
RE: Price - 4/6/2010 1:41:26 PM   
MrLongleg

 

Posts: 707
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Plymouth, MA, USA
Status: offline 		If you consider the huge effort going into such a game and the relative small number of potential buyers I think it is great that it is possible to have the expansion for the current price. I am pretty sure that the people from SSG are not driving Ferraris and are having a hard time making a decent living out of their excellent games. (And even if they drove Ferraris - which I doubt - they would have earned it)

So please stop whining. Spend the money, if you want to play the expansion and don't spend the money, if you think it is too expensive. I will certainly buy it.


_____________________________

MrLongleg

Life is too short to drink bad wine ;-)

(in reply to modrow)
Post #: 47
RE: Price - 4/6/2010 2:09:51 PM   
Henri

 

Posts: 146
Joined: 4/26/2002
Status: offline 		As a long-time Matrix supporter (I have 15 Matrix games just from Steam), I am a bit divided about this issue.ATD was one of my favorite games, no doubt about that.

I understand and agree with the Matrix policy, the only problem I have is that Kharkov is one of the few SSG games that I don't have, which means about a $90 purchase if I want ATD2.And I am probably not alone...

The obvious marketing solution for this is to give a discount to new customers who buy BOTH games, but I understand that this would be considered unfair to previous owners of Kharkov.One way around this might be to discount only the price of Kharkov, since it is now an "old" game.

I will probably finally decide to dish out the dough since I can afford it, but not all wargamers are in my situation.

Henri

(in reply to DBeves)
Post #: 48
RE: Price - 4/6/2010 3:25:19 PM   
LarryP


Posts: 3783
Joined: 5/15/2005
From: Carson City, NV
Status: offline 		I have been watching this game for a while and was planning on getting it when SSG added more scenarios. However, at $90 for the game and expansion, I can't now. I'm not complaining about the price, just the fact that I can't afford $90 for one game now I guess.

(in reply to Henri)
Post #: 49
RE: Price - 4/6/2010 4:46:11 PM   
jmlima

 

Posts: 782
Joined: 3/1/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LarryP

I have been watching this game for a while and was planning on getting it when SSG added more scenarios. However, at $90 for the game and expansion, I can't now. I'm not complaining about the price, just the fact that I can't afford $90 for one game now I guess.


Hopefuly this is not a trend starter, otherwise, wargame companies better not complain when they end up making games for 3 guys to buy.

I find amusing the argument that it is a niche market. I wonder why they are not more popular?

Is it because of the popularity of the theme? No.
Is it because of the friendly price? No.
Is it because of the high tech programming? No.
Cutting edge graphics? No.
Bug free? No.

How the heck do you want them to stop being a niche market?... At least make expansions cheap.

(in reply to LarryP)
Post #: 50
RE: Price - 4/6/2010 5:01:20 PM   
JudgeDredd


Posts: 8573
Joined: 11/14/2003
From: Scotland
Status: offline 		It's a niche market because very few people are interested in the level of complexity in such games.

_____________________________

Alba gu' brath

(in reply to jmlima)
Post #: 51
RE: Price - 4/6/2010 5:18:26 PM   
TheWombat_matrixforum

 

Posts: 469
Joined: 8/2/2003
Status: offline
Are you really suggesting that the serious wargame market would grow if the prices were lower? That implies that the main barrier to expanding the market is price, and I'm pretty sure that's not the case. When computer wargames began their prices were high, but so were the prices of pretty much every game out there. For a long time after computer games stabilized as near-mainstream products, wargames from places like SSI and Atomic retailed at the normal prices--and often had very high production values for the times. Yet the niche didn't grow, and one by one the mainstream companies either died (TalonSoft, SSI) or phased out publishing historical wargames entirely.

The reason this is a niche is that there simply are not that many people who want to simulate warfare with any real degree of historical fidelity within the context of a computer simulation. There are tons of folks who want military or war-themed games, and tons of folks who want good military history books, but the number of people who want intricate, complex, historical simulations on their computers is and always has been pretty small. The difference is that today, we are surrounded by and overwhelmed with a plethora of electronic entertainment, in a market where the overall price of such entertainment is constantly driven down in the mainstream due to competition. Unfortunately, you can't directly compare a Panther game or a SSG game or a Grigsby game to, say, Assassins Creed or Grand Theft Auto or Modern Warfare 2 or God of War III. It costs a fortune to make mainstream games that are competitive, so the all have to sell literally millions of copies. So they have to appeal to mass audiences. Wargames don't cost nearly as much, and can appeal to a smaller crowd. But they still cost a good deal to make, because even wargamers are influenced by the standards of the rest of the game industry. Ergo, high prices: you have a small audience that won't grow much, high fixed costs, and no competition because it makes zero sense to launch competing products....

quote:

ORIGINAL: jmlima

quote:

ORIGINAL: LarryP

I have been watching this game for a while and was planning on getting it when SSG added more scenarios. However, at $90 for the game and expansion, I can't now. I'm not complaining about the price, just the fact that I can't afford $90 for one game now I guess.


Hopefuly this is not a trend starter, otherwise, wargame companies better not complain when they end up making games for 3 guys to buy.

I find amusing the argument that it is a niche market. I wonder why they are not more popular?

Is it because of the popularity of the theme? No.
Is it because of the friendly price? No.
Is it because of the high tech programming? No.
Cutting edge graphics? No.
Bug free? No.

How the heck do you want them to stop being a niche market?... At least make expansions cheap.


(in reply to jmlima)
Post #: 52
RE: Price - 4/6/2010 5:32:02 PM   
JudgeDredd


Posts: 8573
Joined: 11/14/2003
From: Scotland
Status: offline 		I think there's something else that everyone seems to forget...price per hour.

For me to go to the cinema now, it's £10. So I could go 3 times - watch a 2 hour movie each time and I've paid for the game, yet there are far more than 6 hours of fun to be had in a game.
For me to go play Squash it's £8.50. So I could play 4x45 minutes sessions of squash for the price - that's 3 hours and there's alot more gaming than that in the game.
For me to buy the latest blockbuster on Blu-Ray it's going to cost £17 - that's 2 Blu-Ray DVDs for the same price - 2 movies of 2 hours - that's 4 hours of movie. Even if I watched them twice, I still wouldn't get as many hours out of them as I would a game.

I think too few people (including me from time to time) do not take into account the pleasure per hour that various pastimes give...and how gaming gives soooooo much more for the gaming pound.

_____________________________

Alba gu' brath

(in reply to TheWombat_matrixforum)
Post #: 53
RE: Price - 4/6/2010 5:33:26 PM   
LarryP


Posts: 3783
Joined: 5/15/2005
From: Carson City, NV
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jmlima

How the heck do you want them to stop being a niche market?... At least make expansions cheap.


I could buy it if it were cheaper, but I believe it's the complexity of this type of game that keeps it in a niche market. Over at Steam, the FPS games sell like mad at $50-$60 a pop. This type of game requires dedication, the same as WitP. The more complex, the more I like the game, but I'm weird.

(in reply to jmlima)
Post #: 54
RE: Price - 4/6/2010 6:09:26 PM   
jmlima

 

Posts: 782
Joined: 3/1/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TheWombat


Are you really suggesting that the serious wargame market would grow if the prices were lower? ...


No. I'm suggesting it's a combination of factors, amongst them the price, or better, the way they are priced.

But hey, wargames companies are free to continue operating as they have during the years, that lead to nowhere for most of them, so I fail to see how repeating the same methods will have any better outcome.




(in reply to TheWombat_matrixforum)
Post #: 55
RE: Price - 4/6/2010 6:19:01 PM   
Ron

 

Posts: 506
Joined: 6/6/2002
Status: offline 		Well it does seem pretty high to me also for an expansion scenario; wasn't the original priced at $20? However I don't think lowering the price is going to magically attract a bunch of new customers either. They have a great system and great AI, but I really would like SSG to bring their maps and resolutions up to date, definitely make them more pleasing to the eye.

(in reply to jmlima)
Post #: 56
RE: Price - 4/6/2010 6:31:44 PM   
Lützow


Posts: 1517
Joined: 7/22/2008
From: Germany
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

I think there's something else that everyone seems to forget...price per hour.


We had a similiar debate two years ago, when Kharkov was released.

The price is fine and so is the game engine, nothing to complain here. It's rather about content, respectively the lack of. A single 20-turn-scenario, regardless how good it is, remains a single scenario and that's simply not enough bang for the buck. SSG delivered more content in the past, with older titles like BiN or BiI.

So even people who usually don't hesitate to spend 40 bucks for a new wargame, may rather sit on the fence and wait till AtD drops in price.



< Message edited by Lützow -- 4/6/2010 6:33:38 PM >

(in reply to JudgeDredd)
Post #: 57
RE: Price - 4/6/2010 7:20:35 PM   
TheWombat_matrixforum

 

Posts: 469
Joined: 8/2/2003
Status: offline 		I see your point, but I've watched computer wargaming since its inception as a commercial activity (hell, maybe you have too, I have no idea) and from what I can tell, this is a niche that will NEVER grow that big. You could give the games away and the number of people who would voluntarily move stacks of counters around on their screen and maneuver for 3:1 odds or whatnot is simply just not that large. Wargamers are a specific and focused bunch, like a lot of hobby fans, and it's just that our particular hobby ain't that appealing to most folks. Me, I've been pushing counters since the early 1970s (mostly virtually these days, but in the day many, many pieces of cardboard), and I've seen the heyday of "adventure gaming" in board games and the predictions of a wargame boom there, as well as the ups and downs of PC gaming...and it always comes back to the hard core (corps?) of grogs and their limited market.

I certainly could be wrong, but I rather doubt that lowering prices of current generation wargames would generate vastly increased revenues. One reason I say that is that the people making and selling these games are not stupid. If they could make more, with lower prices, they would.

quote:

ORIGINAL: jmlima


quote:

ORIGINAL: TheWombat


Are you really suggesting that the serious wargame market would grow if the prices were lower? ...


No. I'm suggesting it's a combination of factors, amongst them the price, or better, the way they are priced.

But hey, wargames companies are free to continue operating as they have during the years, that lead to nowhere for most of them, so I fail to see how repeating the same methods will have any better outcome.






(in reply to jmlima)
Post #: 58
RE: Price - 4/6/2010 7:21:13 PM   
JudgeDredd


Posts: 8573
Joined: 11/14/2003
From: Scotland
Status: offline 		Yes - I believe we did. In fact I remember well I was one of the people who staggered at the price of KDotD - I thought it was way too high for a single scenario. But I now believe I got my monies worth and then some. The system is great and the game was a gem. I loved playing it and it's still on my hard drive ready to be fired up again. In fact, I liked it so much, I then went and bought BiI and BiN...older systems, but I liked SSGs design so much, I had to own them.

I too think the price is steep...but not for an SSG game. Any other game, yep...but not SSG. Sorry, that's just how I see it. I was converted after Kharkov and will buy this companys games when they aree released...I'm that confident of getting many hours out the game.

_____________________________

Alba gu' brath

(in reply to Lützow)
Post #: 59
RE: Price - 4/6/2010 7:32:27 PM   
LarryP


Posts: 3783
Joined: 5/15/2005
From: Carson City, NV
Status: offline 		Judge; I remember when you bought this game, I was watching you closely to see when you would throw in the towel. You came back with nothing but praises for it. That's when I thought I had better get this when more scenarios came out.

(in reply to JudgeDredd)
Post #: 60
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