RE: Frigates vs Escort

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RE: Frigates vs Escort - 4/9/2010 1:03:53 AM

taltamir

Posts: 1290
Joined: 4/2/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: aprezto
Oh yes, agreed regarding the AI building them, but is the player restricted in this fashion - or more the point - does the game engine restrict you to certain sizes for each type - I don't think it does.

thats a very good point... :P

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Post #: 31

RE: Frigates vs Escort - 4/9/2010 4:24:13 AM

jam3

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Joined: 11/9/2003
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Well and it kind of is the point as well if the most efficient small ship you can make is a fast 160-180 point vessel and the ai script for the ship type frigate is more efficient then what is the point of the ship type escort? Even if making a smaller 120 point vessel makes sense should it just be another frigate since its ai script is superior?

(in reply to taltamir)

Post #: 32

RE: Frigates vs Escort - 4/9/2010 5:05:51 AM

Flaviusx

Posts: 7750
Joined: 9/9/2009
From: Southern California
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quote:

ORIGINAL: taltamir

There is a huge massive difference... the size of the ship (or at least the size to which the AI designs them) is such that different classes are in different sizes, and bigger is better. plain and simple.

Bigger is not necessarily better. Bigger beyond a certain point is overkill and has no economy of force.

(in reply to taltamir)

Post #: 33

RE: Frigates vs Escort - 4/9/2010 5:11:12 AM

Flaviusx

Posts: 7750
Joined: 9/9/2009
From: Southern California
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quote:

ORIGINAL: jam3

Well and it kind of is the point as well if the most efficient small ship you can make is a fast 160-180 point vessel and the ai script for the ship type frigate is more efficient then what is the point of the ship type escort? Even if making a smaller 120 point vessel makes sense should it just be another frigate since its ai script is superior?

All I can say is that I have had great success switching to escorts in late, hi tech games and will continue to do so.

It works for me. My empires just are not being eaten alive by pirates trashing 10 freighters in succession and other such parades of horribles. Between bases with defenses and escorts they have no easy targets. I find escorts result in great economy once you've got things set up right.

I don't want escorts changed at all and think they work perfectly fine if you understand when and how to use them. They won't get the job done early on, and that's the frigate era. But frigates become wasteful and inefficient at a certain point in the game.

(in reply to jam3)

Post #: 34

RE: Frigates vs Escort - 4/9/2010 8:06:46 AM

Malevolence

Posts: 1781
Joined: 4/3/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: taltamir

quote:

ORIGINAL: aprezto
Oh yes, agreed regarding the AI building them, but is the player restricted in this fashion - or more the point - does the game engine restrict you to certain sizes for each type - I don't think it does.

thats a very good point... :P

Agreed. I actually find these classifications annoying in this design framework.

I prefer very specialized ships for specific missions, but I find that I'm pushed and almost restricted to one version of each escort, frigate, destroyer, cruiser, and capital ship.

For instance, I like to create a planet buster ship loaded with all bombardment and a couple beams. Maybe I classify it a frigate. Then I have another traditional frigate with torps and beams. Well, as I'm sure you have realized already both the AI and the "upgrade" design choke on two versions of a "frigate". Countless times my bombardment frigate has upgraded itself to a torp/beam frigate, etc. when doing upgrades. You can't even keep the "latest designs" window open because the system refuses to accept you maintain two versions/classes of frigate. The DW design completely ignores the named classes and instead forces one named class in each role.

I could do without that.

< Message edited by Malevolence -- 4/9/2010 8:09:10 AM >

(in reply to taltamir)

Post #: 35

RE: Frigates vs Escort - 4/9/2010 1:52:34 PM

taltamir

Posts: 1290
Joined: 4/2/2010
Status: offline

maybe it the whole thing should be reworked as size...
different "types" of ships are "offensive" "escort" "system patrol" ec with different AI... and based on how much components you put on it, it will be classified as a frigate or cruiser or capital ship. Take a frigate (0-200 points of equipment) and add 600 points to it to make it over 800 and its not a capital ship.

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I do not have a superman complex; for I am God, not Superman.

(in reply to Malevolence)

Post #: 36

RE: Frigates vs Escort - 4/9/2010 4:19:12 PM

Shark7

Posts: 7937
Joined: 7/24/2007
From: The Big Nowhere
Status: offline

Hmm, while the default ships are quite pathetic....

1. Even with the base techs, I can get an escort or frigate to 48-82 firepower and stay under 200.
2. I do believe that even if you make 2 identical ships, but 1 is frigate chassis and 1 is escort, the escort chassis is cheaper on maintainence.
3. Escorts are for escorting, frigates are for showing the flag in low threat areas.

I design escorts and leave them to escort the freighters, Frigates are best used as system patrols.

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(in reply to taltamir)

Post #: 37