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RE: CD fire issues - 4/21/2010 4:27:20 PM   
mike scholl 1

 

Posts: 1265
Joined: 2/17/2010
Status: offline 		Actually the best way to sink a BB with bombs is to not quite hit her.  That's the instruction Billy Mitchell gave his pilots back in 1922, and it worked fine for the RAF vs. the Tirpitz in 1944 as well.  A near miss turns your bomb into a mine..., and BB's ARE vulnerable to mines.

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Post #: 211
RE: CD fire issues - 4/21/2010 4:31:25 PM   
PMCN

 

Posts: 625
Joined: 9/8/2000
From: Germany
Status: offline 		Thanks, good to know and sorry for the derailing there!

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Post #: 212
RE: CD fire issues - 4/21/2010 4:35:57 PM   
Nikademus


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From: Alien spacecraft
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mike scholl 1

Actually the best way to sink a BB with bombs is to not quite hit her.  That's the instruction Billy Mitchell gave his pilots back in 1922, and it worked fine for the RAF vs. the Tirpitz in 1944 as well.  A near miss turns your bomb into a mine..., and BB's ARE vulnerable to mines.


Near misses can cause FLT damage in RL.....sometimes. Not always. Mitchell's tactic worked because Ostfriesland was unmanned and motionless and already damaged prior. All it took was the blowing out of a glass scuttle to start progressive flooding that sank her. Tirpitz was the unique victim of 12,000LB Earthquake bombs with enough explosive potential that yes, even a near miss could create a huge crater in the seabed and badly rattle/warp a hull in shallow water. An actual hit was even worse.

WitP does not have a true "Near miss" location though Belt armor hits by bombs can be considered as such. Unlike past tactical wargames however, there's no % chance of FLT damage even in the event of non-penetration....a minor weakness and an area i would have liked to have expanded on, but the flaw is less so now that FIRE damage effects and non-pen SYS have been enhanced in AE.

< Message edited by Nikademus -- 4/21/2010 4:38:03 PM >

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Post #: 213
RE: CD fire issues - 4/21/2010 5:31:16 PM   
Dili

 

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Status: offline 		"Littorio (or VV, not sure this morning which)"

First one. But if we have dozens hits maybe one of them make real damage. That is why it is impossible that dozen of bombs get same odds of a small damage.
For curiosity carrier Eagle was to go to attack Taranto with Illustrious but near misses by level bombing meant it had to stay in Alexandria for repairs.

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Post #: 214
RE: CD fire issues - 4/21/2010 5:37:47 PM   
Nikademus


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Joined: 5/27/2000
From: Alien spacecraft
Status: offline 		Again....its covered. When a bomb rolls to strike a device on a ship (including a main gun turret) it will also strike either the Belt or Deck armor Hit location. So every hit that doesn't penetrate, whether or not it also strikes a device) rolls for a chance of increasing/creating FIRE damage and secondary SYS, like in the example i cited previously in game where one of my battleships suffered no penetrating hits but still left the battle with 40% SYS. SYS directly impacts the efficiency of any warship including the firing of it's primary armament. A warship with substantial SYS will not be effective in a fight and will be at a distinct disadvantage against an intact warship.

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Post #: 215
RE: CD fire issues - 4/21/2010 5:56:09 PM   
John Lansford

 

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Status: offline 		A TF of 2 CL's and 2 DD's surprised my CV TF of Lexington and Saratoga just west of Mili last night; in the melee that ensued (I had two BB's in my CVTF) one of the DD's was sunk, but Saratoga got a 61cm torpedo hit that caused the dreaded "fuel storage explosion" result.  When the turn ended I viewed the TF, dreading to see how badly she was hurt, and was surprised to see all the damage #'s were below 20, even flotation!  She wasn't even limited in flight ops since she and Lex pounded Rabaul as they retired south to Lunga for some repairs.

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Post #: 216
RE: CD fire issues - 4/21/2010 8:22:03 PM   
Wirraway_Ace


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From: Austin / Brisbane
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quote:

ORIGINAL: John Lansford

A TF of 2 CL's and 2 DD's surprised my CV TF of Lexington and Saratoga just west of Mili last night; in the melee that ensued (I had two BB's in my CVTF) one of the DD's was sunk, but Saratoga got a 61cm torpedo hit that caused the dreaded "fuel storage explosion" result.  When the turn ended I viewed the TF, dreading to see how badly she was hurt, and was surprised to see all the damage #'s were below 20, even flotation!  She wasn't even limited in flight ops since she and Lex pounded Rabaul as they retired south to Lunga for some repairs.


Small sample size, but Lady Lex and Sara are pretty tough compared to the Yorktowns in my experience. I haven't looked at the stats, but I assume their durability is significantly higher.

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Post #: 217
RE: CD fire issues - 4/22/2010 8:50:20 PM   
chesmart


Posts: 908
Joined: 1/14/2007
From: Malta
Status: offline 		I just bombarded Truk with 10 Battleships and lost 8 to CD fire. Something is wrong the biggest gun Truk has is 203mm and the battleships were hit 100-200 times. Is there a bug ? I am running Patch 3

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Post #: 218
RE: CD fire issues - 4/22/2010 8:57:02 PM   
John Lansford

 

Posts: 2662
Joined: 4/29/2002
Status: offline 		che,

Sounds similar to what everyone else is finding out; Patch 3 has turned CD guns into battleship killers.  The bombardment mission has been neutered when going up against even mobile CD units, and especially against the fixed fortifications even when the fixed guns aren't big enough to challenge a BB.

(in reply to chesmart)
Post #: 219
RE: CD fire issues - 4/22/2010 8:58:53 PM   
chesmart


Posts: 908
Joined: 1/14/2007
From: Malta
Status: offline 		Is there a work around ?

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Post #: 220
RE: CD fire issues - 4/22/2010 11:46:47 PM   
Monter_Trismegistos

 

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From: Gdansk
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Wirraway_Ace
1) Why is the BB closing within range of 15cm guns (let alone 8 cm guns).

Because she want to actually hit something.


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Post #: 221
RE: CD fire issues - 4/23/2010 1:17:57 AM   
usersatch

 

Posts: 400
Joined: 6/1/2005
Status: offline 		Just invaded Rabaul, awaiting the dreaded BB slaughter. Not a single hit registered on any of my 25 BBs and CAs. One would think that Rabaul would have better CD than a hole like Mili.

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Post #: 222
RE: CD fire issues - 4/23/2010 1:33:06 AM   
John Lansford

 

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Joined: 4/29/2002
Status: offline 		Apparently the CD guns now fire fully only at bombardment TF's, and only sporadically at invasion TF's.  

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Post #: 223
RE: CD fire issues - 4/23/2010 1:52:14 AM   
sfbaytf

 

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Joined: 4/13/2005
Status: offline 		I had LCI(I), LCI(R), and LCM(M) with my invasion fleet at Naha and they got shredded along with a pretty good load of LST's and LSIs'.

Earlier in the war I took Rabaul and the CD's hardly touched my invasion force too. Truk, Saipan and Naha was a completely different story.

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Post #: 224
RE: CD fire issues - 4/23/2010 2:38:28 AM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: John Lansford

Apparently the CD guns now fire fully only at bombardment TF's, and only sporadically at invasion TF's.  


I had an easy time at Rabaul as well. I think there's a trigger event, or multiples, where the AI gives up on the Solomons and pulls back most of its stuff. Maybe taking Buna is one? While I was building PM the air battle was fierce, rivaling Burma's. After I came over the mountains it died away pretty fast. Rabaul was still defended by the time I got there, but with scraps.

The Marianas were a whole 'nother story.

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Post #: 225
RE: CD fire issues - 4/23/2010 9:55:05 PM   
John Lansford

 

Posts: 2662
Joined: 4/29/2002
Status: offline 		I don't think it's Buna.  That base is still controlled by the AI in my game and the entire SW Pacific area has been abandoned, at least by the units it can evacuate.  The AI currently has 11 units trapped on Tulagi and another half dozen on the Shortlands.  I control Lunga, Buka, Gasmata, Milne Bay, Rossel Island and a couple of bases between Lunga and Shortlands.  My next target is Kavieng and perhaps NW of Finschaven on New Guinea.  The AI began pulling units out when I retook Milne Bay and occupied Rossel Island, but that was way back in mid-42.  I honestly don't have any idea where the units went; the only units I'm seeing in CentPac appear to be the garrison/defense units on the particular atolls.  

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Post #: 226
RE: CD fire issues - 4/23/2010 11:26:00 PM   
Bullwinkle58


Posts: 11302
Joined: 2/24/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: John Lansford

I don't think it's Buna.  That base is still controlled by the AI in my game and the entire SW Pacific area has been abandoned, at least by the units it can evacuate.  The AI currently has 11 units trapped on Tulagi and another half dozen on the Shortlands.  I control Lunga, Buka, Gasmata, Milne Bay, Rossel Island and a couple of bases between Lunga and Shortlands.  My next target is Kavieng and perhaps NW of Finschaven on New Guinea.  The AI began pulling units out when I retook Milne Bay and occupied Rossel Island, but that was way back in mid-42.  I honestly don't have any idea where the units went; the only units I'm seeing in CentPac appear to be the garrison/defense units on the particular atolls.  


Hmm. I was doing a lot of things simultaneously in there, several real-time months ago. Milne Bay, Tulagi, Buna, and then a very quick jump to Lae (like, 2 weeks.) I guess I don't really want to know the true triggers, and there may be several, or several in combinaiton. I understand very little how the AI scripts work, and I like it that way.

It is true, from multiple reports now, that the AI runs away from Rabaul. I don't know where they go either, but I wouldn't bet against the PI. I've started long-range recon in advance of moving in there from Saipan, and it's bristling with LCUs. I'm just going to tangle with the northern half, but even those are formidible.

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Post #: 227
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