RE: January 4-11, 1942

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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> After Action Reports >> RE: January 4-11, 1942

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RE: January 4-11, 1942 - 8/18/2010 4:56:17 PM

Chickenboy

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From: San Antonio, TX
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Crumbling Fortress Java.

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RE: January 4-11, 1942 - 8/18/2010 4:57:08 PM

Chickenboy

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Philippines- January 12, 1942

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RE: January 4-11, 1942 - 8/18/2010 5:41:49 PM

Canoerebel

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From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
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I'm enjoying your AAR, Chickenboy. I can't help you with your production questions since I only play the Allied side. You might want to PM Q-Ball or NYGiants, as both of them are very good with that sort of thing.

What's your overall impression of your situation in the game to date?

Somehow, Q-Ball and I have passed you - we're in early February now. I was enjoying comparing my situation to that of your opponent, but I really can't at this point.

Good luck!

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Post #: 63

RE: January 4-11, 1942 - 8/18/2010 5:53:09 PM

Chickenboy

Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

I'm enjoying your AAR, Chickenboy.��I can't help you with your production questions since I only play the Allied side.� You might want to PM Q-Ball or NYGiants, as both of them are very good with that sort of thing.

What's your overall impression of your situation in the game to date?

Somehow, Q-Ball and I have passed you - we're in early February now.� I was enjoying comparing my situation to that of your opponent, but I really can't at this point.

Good luck!

Thanks for the kind words, Dan. I'm glad someone is reading and enjoying.

Overall, I'm very pleased with my progress on Luzon, pleased with the effort on Java, satisfied with the situation in China and getting a little antsy about Malaya.

I was fortunate in rebuffing Steve with the loss of the Enterprise in CentPac. His nose thus bloodied, I don't think he'll want to risk losing another carrier or two in any rushed effort to quickly attack CentPac or reinforce forward bases in an advanced time table. If he does, I've sufficient forces in place between Truk and Rabaul now to do something about it.

WRT Malaya, I'm OK with the progress to date. I'll eventually get to Singapore and take it. Singapore makes a fine naval base though. Until I can position myself to put its port facilities under daily aerial bombardment, he'll be able to use it to resupply and repair his SS fleet. Outside of Soerbaja, that's the only decent port with repair facilties he has for 1000 miles. Denying it to his submarine fleet will make their interdiction efforts more difficult and dramatically increase their transit times to station.

Having not done a "Java first" approach before, it's difficult for me to envision exactly how I deal with S. Sumatra, Balikpapan, Amboina and Timor and in what order I 'backfill' these other bases. I'm trying to be flexible about this approach, but am a little nervous, having not done this before.

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January 12-17, 1942 - 8/28/2010 8:02:18 PM

Chickenboy

Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
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Again with the delay in updating the AAR?

[Bows humbly before audience.]

China: Chinese resistance at Loyang ends on January 12. Somewhere between 22,000 and 40,000 Chinese

(why the discrepancy?) are liquidated. At the rate of 200 infantry squad replacements monthly, this amounts to nearly five full months of Chinese infantry replacements destroyed outright.

Killing Chinese: Killing Chinese units-rather than forcing their retreat and capturing their cities-is the only way to go too as far as I'm concerned. That's why I like China as the IJ: The Chinese infantry (especially) themselves are really the (VP) target, not Chungking, Changsa or any of the other worthless cities on the Chinese subcontinent.

Some quick math to illustrate my point: Chinese and Philippino units (squads, guns, vehicles) yield one VP per 12 units 'destroyed' (per manual section 17.0 page 263). According to the combat report below, that's a total of 3967 units destroyed in the liquidation of Loyang. Divide by 12=330 VPs. That's roughly akin to sinking two old prewar USN BBs or (not quite) a modern USN CV. A very nice win indeed. No, not a game changer just by itself, but there's real VP benefits to the IJ player for destroying as many Chinese units as possible, regardless of the territory captured.

For AFBs out there-your best bet is to find defensible terrain (rough, forested, heavy urban), stall for time and withdraw before being encircled.

Game mechanics question for those in the know: none of the Chinese retreated from the pocket and they're gone from the map now. So how could they just have been 'disabled'? I thought all surrendering / destroyed units had all casualties listed as destroyed?

:

Ground combat at Loyang (87,43)

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 81003 troops, 702 guns, 256 vehicles, Assault Value = 2755

Defending force 40251 troops, 216 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 904

Japanese engineers reduce fortifications to 0

Japanese adjusted assault: 1494

Allied adjusted defense: 180

Japanese assault odds: 8 to 1 (fort level 0)

Japanese forces CAPTURE Loyang !!!

Combat modifiers
Defender: experience(-), supply(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
1807 casualties reported
Squads: 7 destroyed, 81 disabled
Non Combat: 5 destroyed, 83 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 7 disabled
Vehicles lost 8 (1 destroyed, 7 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
22284 casualties reported
Squads: 975 destroyed, 2130 disabled
Non Combat: 2516 destroyed, 1344 disabled
Engineers: 168 destroyed, 17 disabled
Guns lost 308 (301 destroyed, 7 disabled)
Units destroyed 12

Assaulting units:
35th Division
6th Ind.Mixed Brigade
37th Division
5th Armored Car Co
7th Ind.Mixed Brigade
32nd Division
41st Division
110th Division
9th Ind.Mixed Brigade
15th Tank Regiment
4th Ind.Mixed Brigade
1st Garrison Unit
6th Medium Field Artillery Regiment

Defending units:
96th Chinese Corps
2nd Chinese Cavalry Corps
9th Chinese Corps
80th Chinese Corps
27th Chinese Corps
93rd Chinese Corps
5th New Chinese Corps
14th Group Army
36th Group Army
Jingcha War Area
15th Group Army
4th Chinese Base Force

Most of the IJA from this siege are currently preparing for Nanyang and will rest a few turns at Changchow to recover fatigue / disruption before making the trek over there. According to intel, another 60,000+ Chinese are in desperate need of 'liberation' here.

Pacific: RO-62 puts a torpedo into DMS Chandler at Midway. The DMS and PC Reliance was apparently safeguarding the TK Gulfhawk. Chandler sinks and the submarine is punished by DC attack. She'll retreat to Truk for staging for repairs.

The submarine war: Elsewhere, limited 'back and forth' between Allied subs and IJ ASW. Particularly active areas are the 'hot corner' around NW Borneo, the mouth of the Mekong to CRB, and SW off the coast of Kyushu. I've lost a few xAKLs and xAKs during this time. ASW responses have been limp.

I've detailed two groups of Nells and Bettys from Saigon to ASW efforts to 'cone down' on the area between Saigon and CRB. It seems like they claim a hit a day on Allied submarines operating in this area. I'm not sure what this means in reality, however.

KB: Returns to port in Hong Kong to expand airgroups and get in some minor repairs.

Philippines After the fall of Clark, most LCUs there rested a couple days and then moved to Manila to add to the small-ish IJ holding forces already there. Manila falls on Jaunary 17. BANZAI! All units present are liquidated en masse. :

Ground combat at Manila (79,77)

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 53051 troops, 600 guns, 650 vehicles, Assault Value = 1745

Defending force 19791 troops, 256 guns, 174 vehicles, Assault Value = 360

Japanese engineers reduce fortifications to 0

Japanese adjusted assault: 1200

Allied adjusted defense: 349

Japanese assault odds: 3 to 1 (fort level 0)

Japanese forces CAPTURE Manila !!!

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), preparation(-), experience(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
1306 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 84 disabled
Non Combat: 6 destroyed, 108 disabled
Engineers: 1 destroyed, 18 disabled
Vehicles lost 46 (2 destroyed, 44 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
36393 casualties reported
Squads: 1117 destroyed, 769 disabled
Non Combat: 2690 destroyed, 826 disabled
Engineers: 64 destroyed, 5 disabled
Guns lost 570 (555 destroyed, 15 disabled)
Vehicles lost 278 (259 destroyed, 19 disabled)
Units destroyed 12

Assaulting units:
7th Tank Regiment
65th Brigade
9th Infantry Regiment
2nd Formosa Inf. Regiment
16th Engineer Regiment
Kimura Det
47th Infantry Regiment
4th Tank Regiment
48th Engineer Regiment
48th Recon Regiment
3rd Ind. Engineer Regiment
1st Formosa Inf. Regiment
21st Ind. Engineer Regiment
20th Infantry Regiment
2nd Tank Regiment
38th Division
16th Recon Regiment
Kure 1st SNLF
3rd Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
2nd Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
2nd Mortar Battalion
1st Medium Field Artillery Regiment
9th Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
48th Field Artillery Regiment
1st Hvy.Artillery Regiment
8th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
15th Ind.Art.Mortar Battalion
2nd Ind.Art.Mortar Battalion

Defending units:
51st PA Infantry Division
4th Marine Regiment
1st PA Infantry Division
41st PA Infantry Division
71st PA Infantry Division
2nd PA Constabulary Regiment
Cavite USN Base Force
USAFFE
II Philippine Corps
Far East USAAF
Manila USAAF Base Force
PAF Aviation

The only remaining Allied units on Luzon occupy the Bataan peninsula. On January 17, some 'movement' indicators are noted on his troops from Bataan towards Clark. He is apparently trying to walk out of Bataan to take an underdefended Clark from behind.

I move about half of my Luzon army back to Clark to deal with this threat. The other half will rest and refit in Manila for a short while whilest prepping for many of the mid-Philippine secondary targets.

The Allied defense of Luzon in this game was pretty ineffectual. Not to sound too harsh, but I think Steve made a mistake here. He allowed his forces to be split three ways-Bataan, Clark and Manila and subsequently defeated in piecemeal detail. As a result, I'm way ahead of my timetable schedule re: the Philippines.

Yes, there's still Allied troops on the Bataan peninsula that will eventually have to be liquidated, but I'm in no rush to release them from their imprisonment there. Let 'em starve for a couple months.

Has anyone else had this 'high quality problem' on Luzon-having both Manila and Clark in the bag by January 17?

Java, Burma and Malaya: Slow going.

Units continue to move down the East and West coasts of Java towards Soerbaja.

There's a sizeable pocket of Dutch just south of Tjitilap, north of Soerkata that have been bypassed. Once Batavia falls-soon, I hope-the issue of these Dutch units will be revisited. As it stands now, though-they're away from my main route of advance, out of supply and in a perfect position to rot for a few weeks.

Malaya is a slow slog too. No major events of interest during this time frame. Kuala Lumpur is reinforced and armored recon heads towards Malacca.

I would prefer that Singapore be invested right about now, but whatarya gonna do? I can get over to the Indian Ocean via the straits between Batavia-Oosthaven too, so once those two cities fall, KB can stir up some mischief over on the IO side.

Burma is a backwater right now. Minor probing movements towards Moulmein, nothing more.

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January 18-February 4 - 9/11/2010 9:05:23 PM

Chickenboy

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From: San Antonio, TX
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Interesting two weeks...

DEI: On Java, Soerbaja and Batavia fall on January 27 to their respective assault forces. Batavia held longer that envisioned, Soerbaja shorter. Dutch defenders retreated out of Batavia and Soerbaja. Dutch troops from the latter were liquidated on February 3. Elsewhere some scattered pockets of Dutch remain on the island, but this is just mopping up at this point. I'm pleased with having the vast majority of Java before February.

An IJA regiment sails from Banjarmasin towards Kendari, ETA somewhere around February 7. Ambon assault troops gather in Soerbaja. Additional troops for Sumatra are railed north to Batavia.

Two small armored units, an engineer unit and IJAA regiment take Oosthaven (S. Sumatra) on January 29. The city is undefended and the armored recon elements make rapid progress inland. These will be reinforced by another regiment and armored unit currently on Java. Onward to Palembang.

Philippines: A modest holding force (lots of artillery) consisting of an IJAA Division and support units is left at Clark. A regiment holds Manila. Otherwise, most of the capable LCUs are heading towards pickup to the SW of Manila. They are being earmarked for other PI islands, including Mindanao. My admitedly light assault forces on Mindanao have hit a roadblock at Cagayan, where Steve seems to have consolidated his defense. On February 3, he tries a deliberate attack, which comes off at 1:1 odds. SNLF Reinforcements had just landed on N. Mindanao, so will make the trip over to bolster IJ defenses. I clearly need some additional firepower to break resistance here-I'll have to import from Luzon.

China: Nanyang is surrounded. Intel reveals some 130,000 troops here. Many of my divisions have recovered from the sieges of Changchun and Loyang enough to be combat ready. I start feeding them into Nanyang with some artillery. I hope to be able to liquidate this sizeable force of Chinese.

SWPAC: Action heating up here. Lae, Shortlands and Tulagi fall. SNLF enroute to Efate Port Villa. On January 31 or February 1, an IJ submarine catches sight of a massive ship force in Port Moresby. KB, with heavy surface forces attached, sails from Truk immediately. Steve knows what's up right away when Shokaku dodges a Mk.14 just SW of Truk. Either dodges it or it fails to explode or goes too deep or the stars didn't align properly and so on...

KB reaches an ideal launch point North of Buna (New Guinea) on February 2. Scout Vals confirm the target is still present in PM and claim hits on several small craft in the Allied force. I salivate waiting for the replay. Nothing happens.

No KB launch. I recheck all my settings and write it off to bad weather. In the meantime, however, Bettys from Rabaul, escorted by Zeroes attack some of the shipping spotted by the scout Vals. They score on several xAPs in the area, but encounter a stiff CAP.

On February 3, KB and surface units round the tip of New Guinea, near Milne Bay. Before them is a beautiful tableau of task forces begging to be destroyed-a CA/CL heavy TF near New Guinea, other transport TFs heading SW to run away and a TF chock-a-block full of small combatants-PTs, AVs (?), xAKLs, etc.-a real kitchen sink, all within Val range. Scout Vals claim several hits on small craft that they've sighted.

I salivate waiting for the replay. No KB launch in the am. One modestly-sized escorted Val attack occurs on the PM air phase, but no torpedo aircraft.

I recheck all my settings and write it off to bad weather. Expecting a nighttime intercept by the Allied CA/CL-heavy TF overnight, I move KB to the SE, trailing my SCTF. I put the carriers in a position to launch on a position where they just vacated, expecting the Allied cruiser TF to be there in the morning.

In the meantime, Bettys from Rabaul, escorted by Zeroes, attack some of the shipping spotted by the scout Vals. They score on several xAPs in the area, but encounter a stiff CAP. Many Bettys and escorts are lost by the heavy land-based CAP, which consists of Buffaloes and P40-E s out of PM. I stand them down after this attack, as they are pretty chewed up. I import another unit of zeroes from Truk and fly in some Emilies and Bettys to Rabaul for backup.

February 4: Dawn finds the scout Vals out at first light. They claim hits on several small craft. The only Allied TFs sighted are a large TF of a mixture of ship types (the small craft) which Steve has sent to the very hex that KB just occupied. I anxiously await the combat replay showing these little punks swept from the water. Nothing happens. No KB launch.

Now I'm pissed.

I order the BB SCTF into the area to sweep up the small craft that I can during the February 5 turn. Thinking that I must be failing my coordination rolls somehow, I break KB into 3x 2CV TFs with support. Soryu and Hiryu lead and the other 4 CVs follow in their respective TFs.

More on this in the next posting.

< Message edited by Chickenboy -- 9/11/2010 9:13:37 PM >

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End of the beginning, beginning of the end? - 9/11/2010 9:44:01 PM

Chickenboy

Posts: 24520
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From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline

Game temporarily suspended, permanently repurposed: Steve and I have decided to suspend this competitive game at this point.

When I expressed my frustration and anger at the situation with KB not launching over a four day period (with decent weather), Steve informed me of a number of technical problems he was having with the game at this time too. Some were sizeable. I had not experienced these for the IJ forces, but Steve indicated that he was:

1. Unable to get his troops to move (with MOVE or COMBAT) anywhere under orders in China or the Philippines.
2. Experiencing orders 'resets' with many of his naval aircraft. I had seen these problems too. Most recently, some A6Ms from KB "swept" some of the xAPs fleeing PMs. I gave no such orders. I'd seen this before particularly with IJNAF on Java.

Steve shared that several fighter units on Enterprise stood down (went to 'training') spontaneously-a major factor in him losing the carrier.

Steve and I have been playing different versions of the game for some time. I'm playing under patch III, having declined patch IV for the time being. Steve unilaterally upgraded the game some time ago. I think this may be the majority of the problem-running the game under two versions. Maybe it just took some time to corrupt more and more of the gameplay, but it's buggy-too buggy-right now for us to continue.

I'm going to upgrade to Patch IV this weekend. We'll see if that makes some of our problems go away moving forward.

Um, sorry about that whole 'gaijin' thing: In the meantime, however, we got to emailing. We had to break OPSEC to detail the nature of the problems. I called him on the phone and we gabbed like long-lost chums for 2.5 hours (!) Steve's a cool guy-makes me wish I'da talked to him a long time ago.

As we talked, we broke OPSEC early and often.

Mostly, we compared strategies and ideas for defense or offense. He let me in on his force dispositions-some of which I knew or suspected, many of which I did not. There would have been some most unpleasant surprises for me moving forward. I hope to detail those moving forward.

After patching up, we agreed to keep this game running as a teaching tool, idea laboratory and testbed for different approaches. Steve will now have access to this AAR and I hope he'll post his thoughts here about the events to date. We will likely do a few CG 'scenarios' moving forward if that makes sense.

For the short term, we will:

1. Continue with the action off of Port Moresby. He has some ideas about his CAP and defenses that he's just installed. I have the KB, a BB-heavy SCTF and the 4th IJ ID enroute to Port Moresby. Let's see how this goes, shall we?

2. IJ SigInt (!) identified sizeable Allied ship numbers at Christmas island. A snooper sub confirmed this buildup. Mini-KB, with a CA-heavy SCTF has been detailed into the area. Steve has not yet picked up on these forces' movement, but they're roughly 4 days sail from Christmas island. Let's see how this goes, shall we?

3. Steve has indicated that he has heavily reinforced Palembang with Engineers to bork the oil supply when I capture it. Curse that wily dog! I have light-ish forces moving into the area. Let's see how this goes, shall we?

4. Maybe because Steve is having trouble moving them, but I'm finding China to be pretty easy going right now. I know most IJ and Allied players despise this theatre, but I'm becoming more interested in pushing here than I was at the beginning of the game.

For the long term:

Steve and I have decided to take the plunge and partner together on a 2x2 PBEM. We're going to look at prospects to play the wily Japanese. Our roles as Allies need cementing, but I would probably take China, Burma and those peoples that speak English with a funny accent of some form or another. Being (as of June) fed with corn-fattened beef in Nebraska makes Steve a shoe-in for the 'Mericans.

Request for any readers: I've received upwards of 2300 hits on this AAR since starting it. I haven't been very diligent in keeping it up-maybe that's some of the reason I haven't had too many comments on it moving forward. But I really do like getting feedback or questions or whatever. It's nice to know that someone is reading and finding this effort useful.

Cheers....

Alright, Steve-o, the floor's all yours...

< Message edited by Chickenboy -- 9/11/2010 9:46:25 PM >

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RE: Liquidating the gaijin - 9/11/2010 11:35:00 PM

AW1Steve

Posts: 14507
Joined: 3/10/2007
From: Mordor Illlinois
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

First off, an explanation is in order for the title of this new AAR. There's a fascinating wikipedia entry on the word origins of gaijin. Not all interpretations are impolite, merely pointed.

Secondly, Noobs are welcome here. Remembering back to my WiTP days, I very much enjoyed lurking on the forum reading some of the excellent AARs produced. I remember feeling somewhat sheepish about posting or contributing to any discussions on the forum because I feared I would ask too many dumb questions. There are no dumb questions here, folks. I enjoy the interplay with noobs and I learn a heck of a lot from other's views of the game. Skeptics, heretics and the rest of the lot are welcome to chime in when it suits them.

Thirdly, my honorable PBEM opponents: Crimguy, USSHenrico and now AW1Steve are asked to not partake of this AAR further. They're all upstanding gents, so I don't have any concern about this, but it's good to put this request in writing.
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This AAR is my take on a PBEM that I'm starting with AW1Steve. Steve may or may not elect to start his own AAR at a later time.

A word about my opponent: he's a seasoned veteran of WiTP and a regular forum rat like myself. I'm fortunate to have him as my honorable foe. Steve is going through a move in the near future, so we'll likely have a slow start to the campaign. That's OK by me, as it gives me the epoch that I need to plot the Japanese first turn. The blood won't really start flowing for a few weeks, but I'd like to start discussing some options for early IJ moves now.

A bit about myself as a gamer. I have always relished the defensive struggle in wargames. Were I asked to identify my strengths (if any), I would put rank defensive warfare, logistics and offensive prowess in that order. As an Allied player in WiTP, I found the first months to be my favorite. A furious struggle against overwhelming odds, with the hope of future redemption if I could just...hold...on. I think that is what is drawing me towards the Japanese side in this game. Call me sick, but I look forward to the defensive reposte that will inexorably come. I find that I do a better job managing fewer resources than I do more resources, and can use them more effectively. I can't wait until I get kamikazes.

Before getting into the nitty gritty of settings and whatnot, I wanted to give a tip of the hat to some of the other AARs on this and the WiTP forum. I learned a ton from Wobbly / Andy Mac vs. PzB, Canoerebel v. Miller and now Q-ball v. Cuttlefish. Once you can read through the backstory and humor , Captain Mandrake and Sprior, et. al. is also very informative. There have been some Some great writers and strategists in that lot.

A particular nod goes to Cuttlefish, Q-ball and Canoerebel for their AAR format. Very easy to read, insightful and informative summary of various theaters. No offense, gents, but I'm going to steal your format-it's just right. I just hope to do it justice.

I hope that some lessons for some of the more advanced games can be applied / re-applied to those starting out under patch III. There are some obvious differences in gameplay that I'll touch on in a later post or two, but I'm looking for retrospective analysis from those that wish they could have done something different in hindsight.

I will not be using WiTP tracker (I've tried and failed) in this game. My (mis)management of the IJ economy will be by rough calculations, dead reckoning and Kentucky windage. I don't go nuts on expansion of HI or a/c frames or factories, so I'm not anticipating too much of a problem. In general, I try to dump as much oil, fuel and resources into the home islands as I possibly can and hope for the best.

Right. 'nuff said already. The setup:

Patch III AE:

Scenario 1
PDU on
non-historical turn
Japanese surprise on
One day turns
USN historical (read: defective) torpedoes
+/- 15 day historical ship arrival
Advanced weather effects

HRs:

1. PP paid for LCU movement out of restricted command borders. Exception: I'm going to allow myself to use the four Thai Army 'divisions' within 4 hexes of the Thai border. Steve will have the same option for the (foreign) Indian troops around Burma. Anything more than that and we've gotta pay the PP.

2. No strategic bombing before 1943. No strategic bombing before 1944 in China.

3. Reasonable altitude settings for a/c to avoid "Stratosphere sweep" phenomena. In general, I'll rarely fly Oscars or Zeroes higher than 25,000 feet, Nates will be restricted to 15,000 feet. Hurricanes will be OK to the higher altitude, whilest P39s and P40s will be restricted to 15,000 feet and 20,000 feet, respectively.

4. Turn 1: Allies may not change existing default CAP units. No TFs may be created. Those already in existence, may be moved (e.g., Force Z). I don't insist the Allies conduct the pointless death ride.

5. Limited 'expand to fit ship' functionality for IJNAF, USN, RN. Exception: USN CVE-R units.

Not many house rules, really. We tend to play a 'gentleman's game'-if something is irreversably borked, we agree to change the gameplay. Not afraid of house rules as a patch in the interim.

Strategy for first few turns:

1. Manila strike with KB.

I'm working on the rest...

Welcome forumites and please enjoy!

Andre has been good enough to give me permission to read and comment on this AAR as like our game, it's undergone a "metamorphosis" of a sort. So I'll be going through and trying to tell you what I was doing on the other side at the same time. Due to game technical problems, we've converted our normal PBEM into a sort of a experimental hybrid. In his last post he explained the hows,whys, and what-fors, so I'll just skip on to the "here's what I was thinking" part (if I was thinking at all).

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Post #: 68

RE: More philosophical drivel - 9/11/2010 11:58:48 PM

AW1Steve

Posts: 14507
Joined: 3/10/2007
From: Mordor Illlinois
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mynok

Well, to expound on my perspective...those subs at Manila are handicapped by ineffective torps for their entire useful life. They really don't pose much of threat. Certainly not as much as the later subs with real torps. Meanwhile, the US has an intact fleet with which he can oppose any invasion not fully supported by the KB...which cannot be everywhere.

Actually the subs have given a pretty good account of themselves (the five that survived to limp to Singapore , as well as others) . Even though the fleet boats can't sink anything, they are great trip wires and have connducted many (mostly unsuccessful) attacks.

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Post #: 69