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What the Genre Needs - 4/17/2010 6:55:09 AM

Gerth

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DW is a great game and I'm sure the expansions will improve it. However, its comparisons to EU got me thinking. That's really a game I suspect many of us would love to see -- a 4x space opera with actual named characters, noble houses, dynasties, diplomats, and heroes; spheres of influence, laws, etc -- ala the EU and Total War games. The EU games such as Rome frx, are so abstract graphically, yet deeply fascinating due to the ability to shift and manuever actual characters within the empire, to arrange marriages, promote judges and governors, to designate heirs, and so forth.

I have no idea what the developers plan, but should they get around to adding an rpg/political layer to what is essentially an engrossing tech and economics sim, I think it would result in a lot of people with the game on their hd for many years to come. Somebody eventually is going to put together a true TW/EU in space sim; it'd be cool if it happened with this company and sooner rather than later.

< Message edited by Gerth -- 4/17/2010 6:56:27 AM >

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RE: What the Genre Needs - 4/17/2010 7:17:10 AM

Pocus

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Emperor of the Fading Suns franchise is excellent. A pity the PC game has to be released in beta.

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RE: What the Genre Needs - 4/17/2010 7:26:42 AM

Aloid

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Pocus

Emperor of the Fading Suns franchise is excellent. A pity the PC game has to be released in beta.

I totally agree. EFS could have changed the genre completely.

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RE: What the Genre Needs - 4/17/2010 7:44:38 AM

Gerth

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I just discovered EFS recently, but can't get the demo to run. Considering the popularity of EU and how easily its premise could be transferred to space, I'm kind of surprised nobody's really done anything on that scale.

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RE: What the Genre Needs - 4/17/2010 8:10:50 AM

Gerth

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Belay that -- I downloaded and got EFS running.

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RE: What the Genre Needs - 4/17/2010 11:17:58 AM

Anthropoid

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Agree that fleshing out some characters ala EU or EU Rome series could be pretty neat. The other thing that would improve space games is if we had something like the Civ game mechanics to control development and populations on the planets. I've never liked that I have so little influence over these big globes that are representting millions of people. Taxes is the only thing I have any say over!? How about a button that will open up a Planet map? showing the actual major pop centers and allowing me to specify where new cities should be built, defenses, etc.?

Add to that a strategic level battle engine like in Slitherine's Commander: Europe at War games (or you could model off of The Operational Art of War instead) and then the opton to zoom in to each operational level battle at the tactical level as in the Close Combat series AND the option to zoom in and explore the whole planet in FPS mode ala Fallout 3 and you'd have the most perfect game ever. Imagine, being able to walk INTO the capital building wearing a souped-up space-Ninja attack uniform, walk up to that Minister you just appointed who has been pissing you off and anonymously assassinate his arse right in front of the Senate, then flee through the Capital city while the authorities try to catch you, ironically, the master commander of the whole galaxy!

Except it would cost $400 and it would require a Cray super computer to run it!

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RE: What the Genre Needs - 4/17/2010 2:03:55 PM

Pocus

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aloid

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pocus

Emperor of the Fading Suns franchise is excellent. A pity the PC game has to be released in beta.

I totally agree. EFS could have changed the genre completely.

Hehe, you are right, Lord Hawkwood :)

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RE: What the Genre Needs - 4/17/2010 10:02:43 PM

jfpOne23

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Adding a EFS style flavour to DW would make an already epic game, Mega Epic. I just don't know how the developer would handle various species "Blood Lines" and "Dynastic Intermarriage" as many don't necessarily have blood. And only the Gawds know how they might reproduce amongst themselves, much less with other species in order to produce a suitable Heir.

I can see it now...an Intergalactic Tabloid announces thusly: "...Pretty Princess of Hawkwood has a Hankering for a Haakonish Hatchling...what will become of the House?"

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RE: What the Genre Needs - 4/18/2010 7:16:01 AM

Gertjan

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Dont forget though that this game has a macro management focus (it is unplayable without automation especially late game). So it would need to be light on micromanagement.

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RE: What the Genre Needs - 4/18/2010 7:36:18 PM

ds3scud

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lol anthropod

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RE: What the Genre Needs - 4/19/2010 9:17:44 AM

thiosk

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I've always been thinking of a concept of Sporehammer 40k-- the warhammer 40k universe, run as a simulation, in a galaxy like the spore galaxy.

A galaxy that only seems to undergo major changes in response to actions by the player, with the ability to switch between exploring, expanding, exploiting, and exterminating AT WILL, rather than by which phase empire development is in.

Want to hunt artifacts deep beneath burned husks of planets around the remnants of supernovae? Awesome. Want to direct the construction of promethium mining around seculon 4? Sweet. Want a huge frigging invasion to rock your little nugget of territory? Tell the computer to launch it. Want to take your regiments and decorate their battle armor and add all sorts of decals to it? Knock yourself out. Real sandbox 4x game, thats what I want.

< Message edited by thiosk -- 4/19/2010 9:20:17 AM >

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RE: What the Genre Needs - 4/19/2010 2:44:08 PM

Widell

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Anthropoid
Agree that fleshing out some characters ala EU or EU Rome series could be pretty neat. The other thing that would improve space games is if we had something like the Civ game mechanics to control development and populations on the planets. I've never liked that I have so little influence over these big globes that are representting millions of people. Taxes is the only thing I have any say over!? How about a button that will open up a Planet map? showing the actual major pop centers and allowing me to specify where new cities should be built, defenses, etc.?

GalCiv has something like this IIR.

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RE: What the Genre Needs - 4/19/2010 2:59:22 PM

Gerth

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Galciv has a tile system -- very watered down, but better than nothing. I hold out hope that Galciv 3 will offer more rpg elements. Their current fantasy title is incorporating dynasties, heroes with personality traits, retinues, etc. Maybe that system will be carried over to G3.

< Message edited by Gerth -- 4/19/2010 3:00:41 PM >

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RE: What the Genre Needs - 4/19/2010 4:33:43 PM

Anthropoid

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Widell

quote:

ORIGINAL: Anthropoid
Agree that fleshing out some characters ala EU or EU Rome series could be pretty neat. The other thing that would improve space games is if we had something like the Civ game mechanics to control development and populations on the planets. I've never liked that I have so little influence over these big globes that are representting millions of people. Taxes is the only thing I have any say over!? How about a button that will open up a Planet map? showing the actual major pop centers and allowing me to specify where new cities should be built, defenses, etc.?

GalCiv has something like this IIR.

Yeah, but it just doesn't meet my 'expectations' (in quotes cause I'm totally dreaming here).

I remember the last time I "DMed" a role-playing game, back in the late 1990s with a bunch of guys in Atlanta. We were playing Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay (not the minatures game). WFR is this great mixture of Monty Python dark/bizarre humor and Cthulu crap your pants horror. I was putting them through the "Shadows Over Bogenhofen" campaign, which was the best RPG published campaign I had ever seen up to that point. Anyway, the published SoB book is part of a series covered in several volumes that one can play out. These guys were not familiar with any of it, so it was a real treat for them to experience all the twists and turns and stuff :)

Anyway, I just wasn't satisfied with the level of "improvisation" that the module allowed me. So I proceeded to create a gazeeter and census of every structure, and person (and pets/demon familiars, etc.!) in the whole village! It took up a LOT of my free time for quite some time, but it really was a blast, enumerating in a database every single man, woman, child, chaos-mutant, and troglobyte that dwelled in Bogenhofen.

That is pretty much what ALL games need = more detail, More detail, MORE detail, _MORE_ detail, __MORE__ !!

I want every single citizen in my galactic empire to be represented in a database, with about 10 variables per citizen!

Being able to call any of them into my office for an interview would also be good.

I want the torque ratios on every single rivet in every single space craft! I want to be able to check and see the condenser flux levels on every single reactor in every single state-owned vessel/structure/lab. I want to be able to garnish wages, assasinate pets, hold masquerade balls where I seduce my rivals daughters in the back room. Everything. Compel me that real life just doesn't compare to my computer games! WoW me!

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RE: What the Genre Needs - 4/20/2010 6:46:14 AM

Aloid

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Antro... sounds like WITP... every pilot is named and rated, types of engines built... and on and on...

DW at that level would let you buy low-G, low-flush toilets for your ships (for a boost in water carrying capacilty). ;)

Pocus... (Hehe, you are right, Lord Hawkwood ) yes... some things just stick with you like a horde of Symbiots.

< Message edited by Aloid -- 4/20/2010 6:48:28 AM >

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RE: What the Genre Needs - 4/20/2010 7:20:22 AM

Gerth

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"DW at that level would let you buy low-G, low-flush toilets for your ships (for a boost in water carrying capacilty)."

At several hundred ic (intergalactic credits) per toilet seat -- just like Lockheed Martin, Mattel and all the other irl contractors!

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RE: What the Genre Needs - 4/20/2010 8:03:50 AM

Fishman

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Anthropoid

I want every single citizen in my galactic empire to be represented in a database, with about 10 variables per citizen! Being able to call any of them into my office for an interview would also be good.

While it is clear you probably meant this as a joke, it does not seem that such a thing would even be physically possible, given that allocating even a single bit to each citizen would require more RAMs for even a starting empire than are physically addressable in the 32-bit address space. The game has enough RAM problems already!

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RE: What the Genre Needs - 4/20/2010 8:09:01 AM

Malevolence

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Anthropoid
I want every single citizen in my galactic empire to be represented in a database, with about 10 variables per citizen! Being able to call any of them into my office for an interview would also be good.

that game exists--many more than 10 variables per citizen. join eve-online. if you can stand the learning curve, vast empires and thousands of subjects can be yours.

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RE: What the Genre Needs - 4/20/2010 2:59:39 PM

Anthropoid

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Malevolence

quote:

ORIGINAL: Anthropoid
I want every single citizen in my galactic empire to be represented in a database, with about 10 variables per citizen! Being able to call any of them into my office for an interview would also be good.

that game exists--many more than 10 variables per citizen. join eve-online. if you can stand the learning curve, vast empires and thousands of subjects can be yours.

Yeah, but I bet those guys are a lot smarter than the computer.

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RE: What the Genre Needs - 4/20/2010 3:42:30 PM

2guncohen

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phew Emperor of the Fading Suns i realy loved this game.
I realy loved the concept.

< Message edited by 2guncohen -- 4/20/2010 3:52:38 PM >

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RE: What the Genre Needs - 4/20/2010 5:47:51 PM

ASHBERY76

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Emperor of the Fading Suns had an awesome game setting and lore but micro mananaging 30 civ size planets at once was not fun.

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RE: What the Genre Needs - 4/20/2010 6:05:16 PM

Gertjan

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What are good 4x space games (besides DW) that are light on micro management?

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RE: What the Genre Needs - 4/20/2010 6:14:33 PM

Vlad77

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Might I suggest this: Since it appears that DW is insanely moddable, why couldn't this community create such a mod? MANY of you are quite informed gamers and considerable historians. It seems to me at least that Distant Worlds IS what the genre HAS needed.

I think it would be a BLAST to see the Matrix Games gamers and grognards work on this :) I would love to contribute.

So, what do you say?

Ahimsa,
Vlad

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RE: What the Genre Needs - 4/20/2010 7:11:47 PM

BigWolfChris

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Vlad77

Might I suggest this: Since it appears that DW is insanely moddable, why couldn't this community create such a mod?

Actually, the opposite is the truth at this point in time

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RE: What the Genre Needs - 4/20/2010 10:14:24 PM

Anthropoid

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In theory, I'd love to contribute to a mod. I've had that sentiment for years now, and there is this little thing called a career that keeps me from commiting any time to it. By the time I use up my free time playing, I just don't have any left to work on modding. And there are so many good games coming out just about every other month . . . I can't keep up with learning all of them before it is time to buy another one!

It is a good era to be a gamer.

Maybe in five or ten years after I have tenure I'll consider being a modder.

By then, we'll probably have 3D holo decks in our living rooms.

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RE: What the Genre Needs - 4/21/2010 8:57:30 PM

Gertjan

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Let us hope so!

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RE: What the Genre Needs - 4/21/2010 10:59:56 PM

Sheytan

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I still play EFS with the mods. And frankly it is the scope of the game that appeals to me.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ASHBERY76

Emperor of the Fading Suns had an awesome game setting and lore but micro mananaging 30 civ size planets at once was not fun.

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RE: What the Genre Needs - 4/22/2010 12:32:20 AM

Anthropoid

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Who sells that EFS game?

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RE: What the Genre Needs - 4/22/2010 5:19:10 PM

Matman

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gerth

DW is a great game and I'm sure the expansions will improve it. However, its comparisons to EU got me thinking. That's really a game I suspect many of us would love to see -- a 4x space opera with actual named characters, noble houses, dynasties, diplomats, and heroes; spheres of influence, laws, etc -- ......

How about having a DUNE theme for that idea.

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