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rapid colonization = bankrupt state

 
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rapid colonization = bankrupt state - 4/29/2010 4:26:51 AM   
taltamir

 

Posts: 1290
Joined: 4/2/2010
Status: offline 		When I was already the dominant force I traded tech to different races for 700,000 in cash... which I used to build 100 colony ships and claim 100 planets nearly at once... This was great for my private sector, but the troop recruiting AI built 1 troop per each of those planets almost immediately... resulting in my state finances going very deep in the red.
1 troop isn't all that much anyways... would be great if the amount of troops was determined by the amount of money they cost vs the amount of money each colony makes... that is, a colony should have no troops at all until it makes enough money to support (and still have an income)... if a colony's income is X, then only, say, 10% of its income should go to troops... (which would be more or less troops depending on your race and government naturally).

It seems that I can manually recruit troops while I am at the red. I think this is the source of the problem. Recruiting troops doesn't check to see if you can afford them, it just recruits them and deducts the money, sending you into the red.

< Message edited by taltamir -- 4/29/2010 4:44:21 AM >

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RE: rapid colonization = bankrupt state - 4/29/2010 4:47:39 AM   
HsojVvad

 

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Status: offline 		I don't like that idea. That would mean troops cost 10% not matter what. There has to be a set cost. Just like how the US and others send troops to Iraq and Afganistan, those troops cost a set amount, not 10%. So if you have alot of troops, you have to pay for them.

Now if you had security forces that belong to the planet only and can't be transfered, now that can be a different story then. That would be like you don't send NY police to LA or Chicago or Paris France to patrol the cities. Each city is responsible or their own police force, while the army is for the entire contry. So a planet can be responsible for it's own security force, but the empire is responsible for the troops.

(in reply to taltamir)
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RE: rapid colonization = bankrupt state - 4/29/2010 4:51:38 AM   
taltamir

 

Posts: 1290
Joined: 4/2/2010
Status: offline 		Davor, you completely misunderstand. I do not want troops to have a set cost, I want a set amount of troops to be recruited up to a cost ceiling.
That is... if one troop costs 100$ a month to maintain, and 10% of a colony's tax revenue is 1000$ (because its total revenue is 10,000$), than that colony should recruit NO MORE than 10 trools (total upkeep of 1,000$, aka 10% of its income)...

Also, the second issue is that it should be impossible to recruit troops, manually or automatically (both are possible right now) if you do not have the cash on hand to pay them.

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RE: rapid colonization = bankrupt state - 4/29/2010 4:55:00 AM   
HsojVvad

 

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Joined: 3/24/2010
Status: offline 		Sorry, now I see what you mean. I like your idea.

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RE: rapid colonization = bankrupt state - 4/29/2010 6:36:15 AM   
concern

 

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Status: offline 		I am guessing this is beta 4? My constructors are still building like there's no tomorrow.

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RE: rapid colonization = bankrupt state - 4/29/2010 6:36:48 AM   
taltamir

 

Posts: 1290
Joined: 4/2/2010
Status: offline 		glad to hear it...
A macro control could also be implemented where you set the percentage of the colony income that goes towards troop maintenance.

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RE: rapid colonization = bankrupt state - 4/29/2010 3:10:15 PM   
jscott991


Posts: 530
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Status: offline 		Umm, the solution to this problem is to turn off automated troop recruitment.

In fact, you should be doing that anyway.

As was pointed out elsewhere, 1 troop on a planet is next to worthless against the AI. If you aren't going to build a rather large force on a planet, you're better off with nothing.

And you should be building large forces manually, on strategically important worlds only.

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RE: rapid colonization = bankrupt state - 4/29/2010 3:29:13 PM   
2guncohen


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From: Belguim
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jscott991

Umm, the solution to this problem is to turn off automated troop recruitment.

In fact, you should be doing that anyway.

As was pointed out elsewhere, 1 troop on a planet is next to worthless against the AI. If you aren't going to build a rather large force on a planet, you're better off with nothing.

And you should be building large forces manually, on strategically important worlds only.



Damn,I was not aware of this ...
How manny units does the ai uses to take over ?

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RE: rapid colonization = bankrupt state - 4/29/2010 7:21:41 PM   
taltamir

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jscott991
Umm, the solution to this problem is to turn off automated troop recruitment.

I assure you, that isn't a solution at all.

quote:

As was pointed out elsewhere, 1 troop on a planet is next to worthless against the AI. If you aren't going to build a rather large force on a planet, you're better off with nothing.

Quite correct.

quote:

And you should be building large forces manually, on strategically important worlds only.


The AI actually DOES build a large amount of troops on select worlds. Adding troops is just so damn tedious (too many clicks)..

Anyways, if you implement a 10% suggestion (or better yet, a variable percentage which you can alter), then you will get more than 1 troop per planet, hence my suggestion.
I already figured out that I can avoid the bankruptcy by disabling troop building.

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RE: rapid colonization = bankrupt state - 4/29/2010 8:34:08 PM   
teri

 

Posts: 13
Joined: 4/26/2010
Status: offline 		nice start but most of the ai management is crap. keeping my 10agents busy got to tedious for me so i tried the automate function and what did he do: one half counter int other half deep cover. my race is quite dumb so i need to steal research for my technological advancement.
and don't get me started about ship designs...

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RE: rapid colonization = bankrupt state - 4/29/2010 8:52:14 PM   
lostsm

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: 2guncohen
Damn,I was not aware of this ...
How manny units does the ai uses to take over ?

they don't use many but one troop on a planet won't stop the AI. otoh the AI will invade a planet that has more troops that the AI does

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RE: rapid colonization = bankrupt state - 4/29/2010 10:02:47 PM   
Fishman

 

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Status: offline 		Basically, there are two levels of troopenation that actually have a use: None, and MOAR. The AI uses none of these levels, and will purposelessly hire a single troop to defend a minor backwater colony, while failing to properly betroopen important worlds so that they are easily taken unless you manually intervene to properly betroopen them with the amount they deserve. For instance, my homeworld and Super-Rare-Resource worlds were defended by some 500-1000 legions. Anything worth defending at ALL is worth plopping at least 50-odd on, and anything not paying for 50 legions to defend isn't worth defending at all.

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RE: rapid colonization = bankrupt state - 4/30/2010 12:19:16 AM   
jscott991


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Fishman

Basically, there are two levels of troopenation that actually have a use: None, and MOAR. The AI uses none of these levels, and will purposelessly hire a single troop to defend a minor backwater colony, while failing to properly betroopen important worlds so that they are easily taken unless you manually intervene to properly betroopen them with the amount they deserve. For instance, my homeworld and Super-Rare-Resource worlds were defended by some 500-1000 legions. Anything worth defending at ALL is worth plopping at least 50-odd on, and anything not paying for 50 legions to defend isn't worth defending at all.


Well, this is a bit extreme since the AI doesn't ever use enough troops to break 50 divisions, but the point is very good.

I just don't understand the problem in the thread. You only need significant troops on a few worlds, even when you have dozens. On all others, you can get by with 0 and save tons of money.

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RE: rapid colonization = bankrupt state - 4/30/2010 1:39:03 AM   
Fishman

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jscott991

Well, this is a bit extreme since the AI doesn't ever use enough troops to break 50 divisions, but the point is very good.
There is no overkill. There is only "open fire" and "I need to reload". Sides, if there weren't a buttload of them, where would I send my ships to pick up? 50 troops will drain fast when a battlefleet shows up to restock.

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RE: rapid colonization = bankrupt state - 4/30/2010 1:43:23 AM   
Astorax

 

Posts: 188
Joined: 4/11/2010
Status: offline 		*ominous hum*

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RE: rapid colonization = bankrupt state - 4/30/2010 4:13:20 AM   
taltamir

 

Posts: 1290
Joined: 4/2/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Fishman

quote:

ORIGINAL: jscott991

Well, this is a bit extreme since the AI doesn't ever use enough troops to break 50 divisions, but the point is very good.
There is no overkill. There is only "open fire" and "I need to reload". Sides, if there weren't a buttload of them, where would I send my ships to pick up? 50 troops will drain fast when a battlefleet shows up to restock.


there is no overkill... but when bullets are expensive there are wasteful kills.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CoolButInefficient
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BoringButPractical

< Message edited by taltamir -- 4/30/2010 4:18:31 AM >

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RE: rapid colonization = bankrupt state - 4/30/2010 4:18:22 AM   
lostsm

 

Posts: 170
Joined: 7/10/2009
Status: offline 		maybe rep hit on bombardment really should be tweaked down a lot, since no one seems to propose bombardment as a viable solution to be used or a method used by the AI

(in reply to taltamir)
Post #: 17
RE: rapid colonization = bankrupt state - 4/30/2010 4:19:08 AM   
taltamir

 

Posts: 1290
Joined: 4/2/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lostsm

maybe rep hit on bombardment really should be tweaked down a lot, since no one seems to propose bombardment as a viable solution to be used or a method used by the AI


the AI or a player... it would certainly make wars easier to win....

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