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HDML and ML - 5/5/2010 3:46:07 AM   
Bradley7735


Posts: 2073
Joined: 7/12/2004
Status: offline 		So, what are these ships used for? I've been sending them to some backwater port and forgetting about them for the war. How do you guys use them in your games?

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RE: HDML and ML - 5/5/2010 3:56:58 AM   
jimh009

 

Posts: 368
Joined: 5/15/2005
Status: offline 		That's what I used to do with ML's and HDML's...until one night when bored I examined the HDML and their upgrades I saw the very nice ASW potential of these ships. Once you upgrade them, the ships have 8 ASW. While these ships have very short range, they are handy for ASW/SF combat patrols around various ports/bases. Right now, I have three HDML TF's cruising around Colombo, Addu and Diego Garcia.

As for ML's, due to lack of mines in the game - I keep them in dock somewhere and forget about them (Bombay, PH, Melbourne).

(in reply to Bradley7735)
Post #: 2
RE: HDML and ML - 5/5/2010 4:19:33 AM   
Klahn

 

Posts: 184
Joined: 5/8/2007
Status: offline 		Because some of the MLs have decent range, they make good suicide scouts. Just send them ahead of your main TFs to provide warning of SCTFs and ACTFs in the area.

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Post #: 3
RE: HDML and ML - 5/5/2010 5:31:56 AM   
bradfordkay

 

Posts: 8683
Joined: 3/24/2002
From: Olympia, WA
Status: offline 		"As for ML's, due to lack of mines in the game - I keep them in dock somewhere and forget about them (Bombay, PH, Melbourne)."


Guys... MLs are no longer MineLayers, they are Motor Launches. Most seem to be most useful as ASW ships.

Minelayers are now designated as CM (Cruiser, Minelaying - definitely describes the Manxman class!) and CMc (Cuiser, Minelaying, coastal).

It takes some getting used to. I know that I sat the MLs for quite awhile until I looked more closely at them...


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RE: HDML and ML - 5/5/2010 7:48:10 AM   
jimh009

 

Posts: 368
Joined: 5/15/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bradfordkay

"As for ML's, due to lack of mines in the game - I keep them in dock somewhere and forget about them (Bombay, PH, Melbourne)."


Guys... MLs are no longer MineLayers, they are Motor Launches. Most seem to be most useful as ASW ships.

Minelayers are now designated as CM (Cruiser, Minelaying - definitely describes the Manxman class!) and CMc (Cuiser, Minelaying, coastal).

It takes some getting used to. I know that I sat the MLs for quite awhile until I looked more closely at them...



Well...I feel like a moron. I've only been playing this game since it came out and just blithely assumed the ship was useless.

As they say, learn something new everyday.

Anyways, I scoured the map in my game (4/42 now) and only found 2 ML's in service (rest were destroyed in Singapore). They have an appealing upgrade path with either a 6 or 8 ASW level. So...if/when I get some more ML's, they'll be put on ASW duty around Colombo and other Indian ports.

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Post #: 5
RE: HDML and ML - 5/5/2010 8:25:41 AM   
castor troy


Posts: 14330
Joined: 8/23/2004
From: Austria
Status: offline 		A dev once stated that those ships are used for "auto-ASW-TFs" created by the AI to act as ASW forces in base hexes.

Perhaps someone has experienced this so far, I haven´t been able to get them to work in a base hex against any subs so I can´t say much about it.

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RE: HDML and ML - 5/5/2010 10:27:25 AM   
EUBanana


Posts: 4552
Joined: 9/30/2003
From: Little England
Status: offline 		I think ASW is the best use for them, requires an upgrade to be effective but only 12 days to upgrade an ML.

The MGB gun versions seem quite heavily armed for more or less PT boat sized ships, so I guess in theory they'd be good at bargebusting and if the Japs had any PT boats, PT busting. I suspect they'd be able to handle the likes of Japanese PBs and AMs too. So I suppose they could do OK at raiding enemy ASW patrols.

Do you need to strafe MGBs at 100' like you do PT boats?

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RE: HDML and ML - 5/5/2010 1:36:49 PM   
topeverest


Posts: 3376
Joined: 10/17/2007
From: Houston, TX - USA
Status: offline 		Question - will HDML / PT types in a port divert a bombardment attack to surface combat, or will the bombardment still occur?

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RE: HDML and ML - 5/5/2010 2:00:15 PM   
khyberbill


Posts: 1941
Joined: 9/11/2007
From: new milford, ct
Status: offline 		I use them for local ASW between Bombay and Calcutta.

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RE: HDML and ML - 5/5/2010 3:18:22 PM   
jimh009

 

Posts: 368
Joined: 5/15/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: topeverest

Question - will HDML / PT types in a port divert a bombardment attack to surface combat, or will the bombardment still occur?


I just discovered this myself - a tiny Japanese amphib assault landed on Diego Garcia. I had 5 HDML's on Surface Combat parked in the hex. They did nothing except sit there and watch the invasion - ultimately unsuccessful - unfold. They didn't even try to engage in surface combat.

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Post #: 10
RE: HDML and ML - 5/5/2010 4:19:34 PM   
EUBanana


Posts: 4552
Joined: 9/30/2003
From: Little England
Status: offline 		HDMLs seem useless, it's like a plank of wood with an LMG on it? No ASW value. They can only go into support TFs as well, so they won't ever seek to engage with that LMG?

I guess you disband em and add a few dire AA guns to the base. :p

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RE: HDML and ML - 5/5/2010 4:44:04 PM   
Don Bowen


Posts: 8183
Joined: 7/13/2000
From: Georgetown, Texas, USA
Status: offline
HDML, from the very beginning, have a decent depth charge capacity. They are excellent as local patrol vessels in your port hexes.

ML can be used either as ASW vessels or MGB. Their game and historical usage varied from local ASW patrol to escorts for landing craft (especially in coastal operations in Burma) to anti-barge gunboats.


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Post #: 12
RE: HDML and ML - 5/5/2010 4:54:39 PM   
John Lansford

 

Posts: 2662
Joined: 4/29/2002
Status: offline 		The HDML's won't go into ASW TF's, though, so how do you use them for local ASW patrols?  I've got a ton of them on the WC just sitting at the piers doing nothing.

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Post #: 13
RE: HDML and ML - 5/5/2010 5:17:00 PM   
Don Bowen


Posts: 8183
Joined: 7/13/2000
From: Georgetown, Texas, USA
Status: offline
HDML were excluded from ASW TFs due to the usage of ASW TFs in AE and the short range and historical usage of HDML.

For local patrol, use a surface combat TF. It allows the ships to perform ASW but also lets them perform surface combat (primarily anti-barge and anti-small craft work). Also pickets.


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Post #: 14
RE: HDML and ML - 5/5/2010 5:18:37 PM   
Swayin


Posts: 317
Joined: 1/27/2007
From: Bellingham, WA
Status: offline
quote:

I use them for local ASW between Bombay and Calcutta.


That's how I use them as well, and around Trinco.

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RE: HDML and ML - 5/6/2010 1:26:06 AM   
SuluSea


Posts: 2358
Joined: 11/17/2006
Status: offline 		I use the MLs in AKL supply runs for escorts, they will land some hits on a sub. Currently using them on Abadan to Karachi and Calcutta to Cox Bazaar runs. HDMLs for pickets and ASW. When the Kamikazees come into play they will play a part fighting the Divine Wind.

< Message edited by SuluSea -- 5/6/2010 1:27:32 AM >

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RE: HDML and ML - 5/6/2010 11:01:00 AM   
Bogo Mil

 

Posts: 286
Joined: 1/28/2008
Status: offline 		Another use: Escort of crippled warships. The HDML would slow down most ships because of the frequent refuellings, but 1 hex is always possible. So if a ship can't make more than 1 hex per phase because of damage, there is no negative effect and you don't need DDs for escort.


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Post #: 17
RE: HDML and ML - 5/6/2010 1:29:40 PM   
morganbj


Posts: 3634
Joined: 8/12/2007
From: Mosquito Bite, Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SuluSea
When the Kamikazees come into play they will play a part fighting the Divine Wind.

I just had a BB take 13 hits from the Divine Wind, so your suggestion is making pretty good sense. If it works, I'll go into the editor and change the designation from HDML to KM, for Kamikazee Magnet. Since PT's aren't much better, I may send them off into "anti-aircraft" missions, too. Why didn't I think of this before?


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Post #: 18
HDML's are Useless!! - 5/6/2010 8:18:09 PM   
jimh009

 

Posts: 368
Joined: 5/15/2005
Status: offline 		Well, I'm now convinced that HDML's are good for nothing beyond being practice targets for Japanese subs. Four different times the AI launched a weak amphibious assault on Diego Garcia, where I had 5 HDML's on surface combat patrol (TF was undocked and in the hex). The Jap TF was very weak, consisting of just a few TB's - nothing more. Yet, despite that, the five HDML's I had simply sat in the hex and watched the amphibious assault unfold.

Has anyone had any success in using HDML's for anything? They have intriguing ASW statistics, but I've yet to see one actually launch a depth charge in my game - despite being on unending patrols. And now they seem useless in surface combat situations, too.

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Post #: 19
RE: HDML's are Useless!! - 5/6/2010 11:47:11 PM   
SuluSea


Posts: 2358
Joined: 11/17/2006
Status: offline 		I had a single ML escorting an AKL land 2 hits on a sub a few turns ago. During another game I had a HDML land hits after upgrading. They're far from useless IMO and am glad the developers added them, I would like to see a few more however.

< Message edited by SuluSea -- 5/6/2010 11:49:24 PM >

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