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RE: AI Kills Me in GDP

 
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RE: AI Kills Me in GDP - 5/11/2010 12:57:42 PM   
Fishman

 

Posts: 795
Joined: 4/1/2010
Status: offline 		I notice you STILL continue to avoid the issue of what the cap is SUPPOSED to be. SPIT IT OUT ALREADY: WHAT IS THE CAP?

(in reply to Sigh)
Post #: 121
RE: AI Kills Me in GDP - 5/11/2010 1:10:33 PM   
taltamir

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Fishman

I notice you STILL continue to avoid the issue of what the cap is SUPPOSED to be. SPIT IT OUT ALREADY: WHAT IS THE CAP?


don't be so angry... they said there will be a slider in 1.05 so that you could set the level of corruption and even turn it off completely.
This means the issue is resolved.

< Message edited by taltamir -- 5/11/2010 1:17:39 PM >

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Post #: 122
RE: AI Kills Me in GDP - 5/11/2010 1:12:28 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 37503
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From: Vermont, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Fishman
I notice you STILL continue to avoid the issue of what the cap is SUPPOSED to be. SPIT IT OUT ALREADY: WHAT IS THE CAP?


What is your problem?


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For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

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(in reply to Fishman)
Post #: 123
RE: AI Kills Me in GDP - 5/11/2010 1:13:25 PM   
Kruos


Posts: 129
Joined: 5/5/2010
From: France
Status: offline 		It is beginning obvious that this forum lack some kind of moderation...

(in reply to taltamir)
Post #: 124
RE: AI Kills Me in GDP - 5/11/2010 1:17:33 PM   
taltamir

 

Posts: 1290
Joined: 4/2/2010
Status: offline 		He is being rude and insulting and aggressive; I don't know what his problem is but he needs to relax a bit and not be so angry all the time (and not take out that anger on the good guys are codeforce)

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I do not have a superman complex; for I am God, not Superman.

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Post #: 125
RE: AI Kills Me in GDP - 5/11/2010 1:19:39 PM   
Fishman

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

What is your problem?
I don't have a problem, I just don't like when people won't give straight answers. Now you seem to have posted an answer, so that's resolved.

(in reply to Erik Rutins)
Post #: 126
RE: AI Kills Me in GDP - 5/11/2010 1:23:51 PM   
Bartje

 

Posts: 308
Joined: 4/27/2010
From: Netherlands
Status: offline 		I think the AI will still beat you in GDP.

event when it's capped at 75%

...


You suck at DW ...


...




< Message edited by Bartje -- 5/11/2010 1:24:03 PM >

(in reply to Fishman)
Post #: 127
RE: AI Kills Me in GDP - 5/11/2010 1:25:39 PM   
taltamir

 

Posts: 1290
Joined: 4/2/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Fishman

quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

What is your problem?
I don't have a problem, I just don't like when people won't give straight answers. Now you seem to have posted an answer, so that's resolved.



http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2465310
75%

_____________________________

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Post #: 128
RE: AI Kills Me in GDP - 5/11/2010 1:33:41 PM   
Fishman

 

Posts: 795
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Status: offline 		Yes, I saw. That message was posted AFTER I yelled.

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Post #: 129
RE: AI Kills Me in GDP - 5/11/2010 1:57:31 PM   
jscott991


Posts: 530
Joined: 4/23/2009
Status: offline 		I think the AI will keep beating me in GDP too.

I'm still trying to figure out why.

My guesses are:

1. Monarchy simply isn't a great government type.

2. The AI empires are smaller and corruption is less of an issue.

3. The GDP formula is calculated bizarrely.

It really doesn't matter, but it is interesting.

(in reply to Fishman)
Post #: 130
RE: AI Kills Me in GDP - 5/11/2010 2:11:08 PM   
taltamir

 

Posts: 1290
Joined: 4/2/2010
Status: offline 		monarchy really isn't a great government type.
Are you prioritizing the acquisition of luxury resources, particularly of kinds you don't already have?

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I do not have a superman complex; for I am God, not Superman.

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Post #: 131
RE: AI Kills Me in GDP - 5/11/2010 2:14:36 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline 		Monarchy is not a great government type if GDP is your primary concern. Other government types are much better at generating money.

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CEO, Matrix Games LLC



For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.

(in reply to taltamir)
Post #: 132
RE: AI Kills Me in GDP - 5/11/2010 2:24:05 PM   
jscott991


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Monarchy is not a great government type if GDP is your primary concern. Other government types are much better at generating money.


Well, my primary concern is being a monarchy. :)

So I'm not min/maxing this category at all. It was just odd that the AI had so few people and colonies and yet three of them had a higher GDP.

(in reply to Erik Rutins)
Post #: 133
RE: AI Kills Me in GDP - 5/11/2010 2:37:44 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline 		What races/governments are the AI empires that are higher GDP than you? Could you post a screenshot or two from the diplomacy screen? If you think something is actually off, please upload a save and we can certainly take a look.

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For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

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Post #: 134
RE: AI Kills Me in GDP - 5/11/2010 2:44:40 PM   
jscott991


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

What races/governments are the AI empires that are higher GDP than you? Could you post a screenshot or two from the diplomacy screen? If you think something is actually off, please upload a save and we can certainly take a look.


I will load up this old savegame and post that screenshot tonight. It's the same game as posted on the earlier pages. I'm waiting for the beta patch to play any further.

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Post #: 135
RE: AI Kills Me in GDP - 5/11/2010 3:14:36 PM   
taltamir

 

Posts: 1290
Joined: 4/2/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: jscott991

quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Monarchy is not a great government type if GDP is your primary concern. Other government types are much better at generating money.


Well, my primary concern is being a monarchy. :)

So I'm not min/maxing this category at all. It was just odd that the AI had so few people and colonies and yet three of them had a higher GDP.


There are benefits though... republic and democracy generate more money, but also more war weariness...

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I do not have a superman complex; for I am God, not Superman.

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Post #: 136
RE: AI Kills Me in GDP - 5/11/2010 5:48:43 PM   
Dadekster

 

Posts: 141
Joined: 4/18/2010
Status: offline 		I like republic myself and it seems to work for those that play a live and let live method with enough juice to fight a war quickly enough to settle any 'issues'.

oh and I find the shouting and in general lack of ettiquete to be completely uneccessary in here. I like to think we're adults discussing a video game in here not health care or AZ immigration issues.

< Message edited by Dadekster -- 5/11/2010 5:50:43 PM >

(in reply to taltamir)
Post #: 137
RE: AI Kills Me in GDP - 5/12/2010 2:49:27 AM   
jscott991


Posts: 530
Joined: 4/23/2009
Status: offline 		Actually, maybe something is up or corruption in 1.04 is very serious.

In that savegame, I'm actually 5th in GDP, despite having significantly higher population. Here are four screenshots of relevance.




Attachment (1)

(in reply to Dadekster)
Post #: 138
RE: AI Kills Me in GDP - 5/12/2010 2:50:05 AM   
jscott991


Posts: 530
Joined: 4/23/2009
Status: offline 		Terran Empire summary (player)






Attachment (1)

(in reply to jscott991)
Post #: 139
RE: AI Kills Me in GDP - 5/12/2010 2:50:34 AM   
jscott991


Posts: 530
Joined: 4/23/2009
Status: offline 		The #1 GDP.

By the way, note the AI's reputations. This sort of shows the perpetual AI v. AI war issue I brought up in another thread.






Attachment (1)

< Message edited by jscott991 -- 5/12/2010 2:55:12 AM >

(in reply to jscott991)
Post #: 140
RE: AI Kills Me in GDP - 5/12/2010 2:51:18 AM   
jscott991


Posts: 530
Joined: 4/23/2009
Status: offline 		The #2 GDP.

There are two other AI empires with higher GDP, but I think it would be repetitive to show them.






Attachment (1)

(in reply to jscott991)
Post #: 141
RE: AI Kills Me in GDP - 5/12/2010 8:15:32 AM   
Fishman

 

Posts: 795
Joined: 4/1/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: jscott991

Actually, maybe something is up or corruption in 1.04 is very serious.

Corruption is very much murderously horrific in 1.04, which is probably why your income has basically evaporated: At this point, population growth doesn't contribute positive income, it contributes negative income as it increases your corruption faster than the additional population contributes income. Plus, as you push 100% corruption, population becomes increasingly useless.

It makes you miss the way 1.03's ship design AI suggested Nuclear Exterminators for your spaceports...because you sure could use them!

(in reply to jscott991)
Post #: 142
RE: AI Kills Me in GDP - 5/12/2010 9:37:21 AM   
Kruos


Posts: 129
Joined: 5/5/2010
From: France
Status: offline 		Hmm... as far as I understand the game eco, corruption seems to be only soustracted localy to each planet GDP just before the income calculation, so it seems that, normaly, there is no link between corruption and low GDP (= two independant distinct things).

I will take a look at your interesting save jscott, in order to well understand what is occuring here. I have the feeling that, maybe, you huge amount of colonies is the key here (too much colonies in regards of luxuary ressources supply and consequently many of your colonies are underdevelopped, which means low GDP contribution for them...?). Dont know...

< Message edited by Kruos -- 5/12/2010 11:49:33 AM >

(in reply to Fishman)
Post #: 143
RE: AI Kills Me in GDP - 5/12/2010 1:07:37 PM   
Starfry

 

Posts: 74
Joined: 11/30/2009
Status: offline 		I figured out why you have such a cruddy GDP, jscott. In your game, I cut all taxes to 0% (I'm such a nice guy, vote for me for president of the world) in order to boost the private sector economy. The economy did tank but the trade ports kept the economy going a bit for a short term. This short term loss helped get the private sector get enough money to equip the freighters with the latest technology then pretty much after a couple years, the GDP went up to 2501 with 160 colonies and 83% corruption at some high output colonies.

I have been thinking that the AI autotaxing is drawing too much from the private sector economy and hindering the AI from expanding further and becoming a threat.

< Message edited by Starfry -- 5/12/2010 1:08:29 PM >

(in reply to Kruos)
Post #: 144
RE: AI Kills Me in GDP - 5/12/2010 1:58:32 PM   
Bartje

 

Posts: 308
Joined: 4/27/2010
From: Netherlands
Status: offline 		Aha; So he tanked the private sector, how considerate!

(in reply to Starfry)
Post #: 145
RE: AI Kills Me in GDP - 5/12/2010 2:53:31 PM   
jscott991


Posts: 530
Joined: 4/23/2009
Status: offline 		I wonder why, though, the AI would autotax my private sector into oblivion, but wouldn't autotax the private sectors of the AI empires in the same way.

(in reply to Bartje)
Post #: 146
RE: AI Kills Me in GDP - 5/12/2010 2:54:42 PM   
Fishman

 

Posts: 795
Joined: 4/1/2010
Status: offline 		How DOES taxation affect GDP anyway? As far as I can tell, private sector income is calculated by pop*dev, and then you skim a percentage of it for taxes. What effect does taxation have on the GDP, therefore?

(in reply to Bartje)
Post #: 147
RE: AI Kills Me in GDP - 5/12/2010 6:29:26 PM   
Kruos


Posts: 129
Joined: 5/5/2010
From: France
Status: offline
quote:

How DOES taxation affect GDP anyway? As far as I can tell, private sector income is calculated by pop*dev, and then you skim a percentage of it for taxes. What effect does taxation have on the GDP, therefore?


I think that GDP is not affected by taxation. I think that GDP is calculated from pop*dev (='value') and something else (maybe something like planet type, size, distance from the capital, etc).

Concerning the save, I loaded it and I have to say that the jscott planet GDP is very odd. It is something I have never seen in my games. Incredibly low. In this save all my asumptions concerning eco mechanism are false... maybe something is broken in this save (your GDP, planet by planet, is so strangely low..)?

I am in the fog. ^^

< Message edited by Kruos -- 5/12/2010 6:41:40 PM >

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Post #: 148
RE: AI Kills Me in GDP - 5/12/2010 8:17:59 PM   
ceyan

 

Posts: 168
Joined: 7/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

I think that GDP is not affected by taxation. I think that GDP is calculated from pop*dev (='value') and something else (maybe something like planet type, size, distance from the capital, etc).


Private Sector Income is the value of your planets. Taxes are taken out in the Expenses section of the Private Sector. And its corruption/inefficiency (and everything that it modifies) which affects your planetary value.

quote:

I wonder why, though, the AI would autotax my private sector into oblivion, but wouldn't autotax the private sectors of the AI empires in the same way.


Based on your screenshot back in Page 3, it isn't taxation which is killing your private sector, its low planet GDP and high ship maintenance. Notice in Cindar's update his Private Sector may still be in the hole (although about half as bad), but he's increased the planetary GDP by 50% and his colonies are paying double in taxes versus your original save.

However, that goes to show that it isn't the fact that the AI is taxing you (or the AI Empires) to death. Which brings us back to corruption (inefficiency, whatever its going to be called) causing low planet GDP since the cap isn't working properly in 1.0.4.5.

< Message edited by ceyan -- 5/12/2010 8:18:36 PM >

(in reply to Kruos)
Post #: 149
RE: AI Kills Me in GDP - 5/12/2010 8:34:04 PM   
jscott991


Posts: 530
Joined: 4/23/2009
Status: offline 		It probably is just corruption.

(in reply to ceyan)
Post #: 150
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