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Online play - 5/12/2010 2:53:50 AM   
old tico

 

Posts: 7
Joined: 5/12/2010
Status: offline 		Tico here--from way back to playing free on AOL.
Love the new scenarios and the improved functionality of the game. Immediately note the improved sub and ECM performance of this game as opposed to the old days.
These days is doens't matter if it is something glitzy like Call of Duty or more mundane (but in my book more interesting) like Harpoon---online, multiplayer is where this can thrive. If AOL could do it back in 1992 I think its easily doable in 2010. What can I do to help?
Post #: 1
RE: Online play - 5/12/2010 2:59:19 AM   
TonyE


Posts: 1551
Joined: 5/23/2006
From: MN, USA
Status: offline 		Welcome back Tico! I loved the online version as well despite the periodic crashes.

Things you can do to get started...

* Create your wishlist at http://harpgamer.com/harpforum/index.php?showforum=35

* Check out the beta testing area http://harpgamer.com/harpforum/index.php?showtopic=3574

* Join us on IRC to discuss the game and enthuse us :). See IRC Chat java applets at http://www.harpgamer.com/harpforum/index.php?autocom=portal , small app http://harpgamer.com/harpforum/index.php?autocom=downloads&showfile=281 , or point your favorite IRC application (mIRC, HydraIRC) at irc.stratsims.com

* Take a gander at http://harpgamer.com/harpforum/index.php?showforum=49 which may or may not strike a chord



_____________________________

Sincerely,
Tony Eischens
Harpoon (HC, HCE, HUCE, Classic) programmer
HarpGamer.com Co-Owner

(in reply to old tico)
Post #: 2
Harpoon 3 [ANW] scenarios for the PlayersDB - 5/12/2010 5:15:36 AM   
hermanhum


Posts: 2209
Joined: 9/21/2005
Status: offline 		If you can bear to stomach the H2 interface, it is currently possible to play Harpoon online.

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tt.asp?forumid=306


Attachment (1)

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Post #: 3
RE: Harpoon 3 [ANW] scenarios for the PlayersDB - 5/13/2010 1:24:35 AM   
old tico

 

Posts: 7
Joined: 5/12/2010
Status: offline 		I have played H2 online. Other than the fact that is was slow, the scenarios were lame, and the process was onerous, it was ok--but that is coming from a Harpoon addict.
Seriously--getting this on a server should not be a technological tour d'force. I'm interested in knowing what the barriers are.

(in reply to hermanhum)
Post #: 4
Harpoon 3 [ANW] scenarios for the PlayersDB - 5/13/2010 2:21:35 AM   
hermanhum


Posts: 2209
Joined: 9/21/2005
Status: offline 		Interesting to hear that you also played ANW version.  Do you remember which scenarios you tried?  I agree that most of the scenarios distributed by AGSI are of the lame/buggy variety.  That's why we use the PlayersDB versions.

I played a great many opponents, but I do not think that anyone ever expressed that sentiment to me.  You can check out some of our AARs.

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=1280607

I think that the biggest barrier towards Harpoon MP (either ANW or HCE) is the human factor.  There just do not seem to be many people who really want this function.  Oh, there are plenty of folks who might say that they want/like it, but they rarely appear on the various community servers for a match.

TonyE graciously offered a number of ANW MP servers with different databases for a couple of years.  I was always available for a game.  However, the number of matches was very few and far in between.  The ANW MP server offered by AoA also sees very infrequent use. 

It is not the lack of opponents, IMO.  I think that folks are simply too busy to bother looking.  They want to play when it is convenient for them and not want to look around to see who is available and make an appointment.  Solitaire play allows them to put in an hour for recreation and save it for their next opportunity whether that be 0700 in the morning or 1500 in the afternoon.  I think it's the Human factor (not technological) that keeps these games primarily AI-centred.


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Post #: 5
HCE MP - 5/13/2010 2:55:49 AM   
TonyE


Posts: 1551
Joined: 5/23/2006
From: MN, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: old tico
Seriously--getting this on a server should not be a technological tour d'force. I'm interested in knowing what the barriers are.


There is no technical barrier. It is a matter of priorities, effort, and the interests of the limited available help.
Also at http://harpgamer.com/harpforum/index.php?showtopic=9560 for those interested.


_____________________________

Sincerely,
Tony Eischens
Harpoon (HC, HCE, HUCE, Classic) programmer
HarpGamer.com Co-Owner

(in reply to old tico)
Post #: 6
RE: HCE MP - 5/22/2010 7:53:08 PM   
JayTac

 

Posts: 26
Joined: 7/8/2009
Status: offline 		Hi all, I'm interested in picking up HCE and was interested in how the online play was. Judging by this thread I assume there's only an option for IP connect and setting up games is a bit of a chore? If that's the case then I would suggest that HCE players create a group via Hamachi, XFire, or Tunngle. Hamachi acts as a virtual lan which eliminates some of the technical/firewall hiccups that are usually associated with IP connections. The main benefit though is that you can create a private room or server so that HCE players can log on when they're available and connect with other members in the room. Much easier than using forums and setting dates and times. Tunngle functions the same way, but is a bit more advanced and mirrors steam in certain ways. Or also another option is Xfire and creating a user group and signing on when you're available to game.

Just a suggestion.

(in reply to TonyE)
Post #: 7
Harpoon 3 [ANW] scenarios for the PlayersDB - 5/22/2010 8:22:34 PM   
hermanhum


Posts: 2209
Joined: 9/21/2005
Status: offline 		MP play is not currently possible with HCE.  The only MP option for Harpoon is to play ANW.

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tt.asp?forumid=306

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Post #: 8
RE: HCE MP - 5/24/2010 6:01:40 PM   
old tico

 

Posts: 7
Joined: 5/12/2010
Status: offline 		Jac Tac--those sound like good ideas. Why not pursue them with the folks running the Harpoon show and see what can be done?
I saw a comment somewhere and the respondent stated they didn't want MP because they wanted to "simulate" different issues. There is a reason its called AI--its artificial. Good grief, do you really think the Sovs would fly Bears (on axis) towards a CVBG with Backfires trailing behind? Reminds me of an exercise where the OPFOR used some innovative tactics and the CMDR of the exercise ordered the carrier "refloated" because the tactics weren't "out of the book". You guys are fat and happy (and I'm happy to have a working version of HCE too) but MP would unlock so much more of this game.

< Message edited by TonyE -- 5/24/2010 6:03:29 PM >

(in reply to hermanhum)
Post #: 9
RE: HCE MP - 5/24/2010 6:36:27 PM   
TonyE


Posts: 1551
Joined: 5/23/2006
From: MN, USA
Status: offline 		Herman, I think everyone got the picture via the first two posts you made to this topic (including wildly inaccurate subjects).

As for the rest, I'm currently the only HC programmer and MP is second on my wishlist. We need your help, your time, your expertise. Asking for MP won't get you MP, a lot of people have to come together and make it happen. We're not a funded operation and buying the game will not further development. This is a volunteer effort with nowhere near the participation that is needed for MP to become a reality in any useful timeframe so if you want it, stand up and make it happen.


< Message edited by TonyE -- 5/24/2010 6:37:35 PM >

_____________________________

Sincerely,
Tony Eischens
Harpoon (HC, HCE, HUCE, Classic) programmer
HarpGamer.com Co-Owner

(in reply to old tico)
Post #: 10
Question - 5/24/2010 11:24:21 PM   
hermanhum


Posts: 2209
Joined: 9/21/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: old tico

Reminds me of an exercise where the OPFOR used some innovative tactics and the CMDR of the exercise ordered the carrier "refloated" because the tactics weren't "out of the book". You guys are fat and happy (and I'm happy to have a working version of HCE too) but MP would unlock so much more of this game.

I remember reading about that exercise, too. I forget the specifics, but wasn't one of the reasons given for "re-flotation of the carrier" that they didn't want to waste the rest of the exercise with its absence? I think they acknowledged that it was sunk. I also thought I saw that the Marine General in charge quit in response. Was this correct?

p.s. Check your PMs.

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Post #: 11
RE: Question - 5/26/2010 5:17:42 AM   
old tico

 

Posts: 7
Joined: 5/12/2010
Status: offline 		As for the rest, I'm currently the only HC programmer and MP is second on my wishlist. <<Just curious--what's first??>>
We need your help, your time, your expertise.<<offered, offered, and have none>>
Asking for MP won't get you MP, a lot of people have to come together and make it happen. <<Exactly what I am trying to offer>>
We're not a funded operation and buying the game will not further development. This is a volunteer effort with nowhere near the participation that is needed for MP to become a reality in any useful timeframe so if you want it, stand up and make it happen.<<Again, trying. Tell me what you need. Tac had some interesting ideas in his post--do any of those sound like they are reasonable?? I'm not a computer person, so I can't help with the technical stuff, but effort--no problem. You again mentioned funding. In your estimation, roughly, what number do you have in mind?>>

(in reply to hermanhum)
Post #: 12
RE: HCE MP - 5/26/2010 5:30:12 AM   
TonyE


Posts: 1551
Joined: 5/23/2006
From: MN, USA
Status: offline 		I'll try to craft an answer to some of the other items in the next couple of days.

My wishlist: http://harpgamer.com/harpforum/index.php?showtopic=2081

Unfortunately what Tac offers in his post only helps if multiplayer already exists in a game. He describes what amount to third party game lobby services.

As for expertise I'm sure you have some. It may be rallying the troops to accept less bug fixing in order to get MP; it may be fundraising, it may be writing AARs and spreading the word, or any number of other things.

< Message edited by TonyE -- 5/26/2010 5:31:23 AM >

_____________________________

Sincerely,
Tony Eischens
Harpoon (HC, HCE, HUCE, Classic) programmer
HarpGamer.com Co-Owner

(in reply to old tico)
Post #: 13
RE: HCE MP - 5/26/2010 6:18:45 PM   
TonyE


Posts: 1551
Joined: 5/23/2006
From: MN, USA
Status: offline 		Related conversation a couple of years ago: http://harpgamer.com/harpforum/index.php?showtopic=2856

Old Tico, get to know us, play the game, write AARs, chat on IRC. That last, chatting on IRC (see http://harpgamer.com/harpforum/index.php?showtopic=9620 for a few ways to connect) is for an unknown reason the prime way to get me working more on the game. If someone is sitting there chatting away, testing builds of the game I can get caught up in the fun for hours at a time longer than I would otherwise.

Funding is a big topic with many touchy areas. Maybe that is something we can chat about as we get to know you better.

_____________________________

Sincerely,
Tony Eischens
Harpoon (HC, HCE, HUCE, Classic) programmer
HarpGamer.com Co-Owner

(in reply to TonyE)
Post #: 14
RE: HCE MP - 5/26/2010 10:57:29 PM   
Unzen


Posts: 32
Joined: 8/10/2008
From: United Kingdom
Status: offline 		I'm sceptical about Harpoon in online mode, tbh. While I can certainly see the possibilities in having a PvP game on the high seas, I really would doubt that the 'demand' would be there.

Harpoon takes commitment and time to appreciate and absorb yourself into. As a consequence, the amount of people out there that could commit to online play would be very, very small indeed. The likes of COD MW2 typically take 20mins or for a round to complete. My personal online favourite of Battlefield 2142 can take up to an hour to complete on a long stint - by which time I feel physically and mentally drained! An online Harpoon game could easily take several hours. Would there realistically be that many players out there willing to commit the time?

An interesting concept, imo. But I don't think it will ever see fruition.


_____________________________

Rusty 'ol Harpoon player - circa 1989

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Post #: 15
Problem - 5/26/2010 11:02:41 PM   
hermanhum


Posts: 2209
Joined: 9/21/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Unzen

I'm sceptical about Harpoon in online mode, tbh. While I can certainly see the possibilities in having a PvP game on the high seas, I really would doubt that the 'demand' would be there.

Harpoon takes commitment and time to appreciate and absorb yourself into. As a consequence, the amount of people out there that could commit to online play would be very, very small indeed. The likes of COD MW2 typically take 20mins or for a round to complete. My personal online favourite of Battlefield 2142 can take up to an hour to complete on a long stint - by which time I feel physically and mentally drained! An online Harpoon game could easily take several hours. Would there realistically be that many players out there willing to commit the time?

+1 in nearly all respects. I'm seeing the same limitations from ANW MP players. Most MP players I've encountered want a session lasting no more than an hour or two. This presents a severe impediment when some players want to play week-long scenarios at Real Time.

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Post #: 16
RE: Problem - 5/26/2010 11:28:48 PM   
Warhorse64

 

Posts: 154
Joined: 12/9/2007
Status: offline 		I used to play HC online, back when that was available, and one of the biggest issues I found was setting the time compression rate. I normally liked to run at 30 seconds or 1 minute time compression, but there were times when you NEEDED to run at the 10 second minimum for a while, and the other players usually got cranky pretty fast at those times. (This wasn't a complete surprise; it can be rather annoying to be twiddling your thumbs for 10+ minutes real time, knowing that (one of) your opponent(s) is probably setting up a torp attack on your HVUs ... )

(in reply to hermanhum)
Post #: 17
RE: HCE MP - 5/26/2010 11:36:16 PM   
TonyE


Posts: 1551
Joined: 5/23/2006
From: MN, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Unzen
An interesting concept, imo. But I don't think it will ever see fruition.


I would look at it from a different direction. I want multiplayer HC. Many players, most of those voicing an opinion, are tolerating the game as is; it isn't perfect and it isn't horrible. Would the community of players survive if I concentrated on MP from July through March instead of splitting my time across multiple forums and a plethora of issues? Probably. The bigger quesiton in my mind is whether there would be enough testers willing to keep pounding the game and keep me enthused during that process? I don't know the answer to that.

I do know MP is possible, whether it would be used or not once implemented is in my mind a different matter. I'd use it and with some of the masterful small scenarios of late I know at least now and again that others would play. Would it justify in general the effort of making MP happen, certainly not! That's some of the beauty of this operation though, we don't have to make justifiable changes and don't always have to move in a 'smart' direction like a commercial endeavour would be well advised to follow.



_____________________________

Sincerely,
Tony Eischens
Harpoon (HC, HCE, HUCE, Classic) programmer
HarpGamer.com Co-Owner

(in reply to Unzen)
Post #: 18
RE: Online play - 6/6/2010 12:22:34 AM   
old tico

 

Posts: 7
Joined: 5/12/2010
Status: offline 		Most of the MP games took a couple of hours with reasonable time compression. Some of the very large scenarios (Fire and Ice, Into the Agean) could go 3-4. It was rare for a scenario to go to "zero" time, as the issue had usually been decided well before then.

(in reply to old tico)
Post #: 19
RE: Online play - 7/1/2010 11:55:35 PM   
old tico

 

Posts: 7
Joined: 5/12/2010
Status: offline 		OK TonyE--give me an assignment

(in reply to old tico)
Post #: 20
RE: Online play - 7/2/2010 3:45:41 AM   
TonyE


Posts: 1551
Joined: 5/23/2006
From: MN, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: old tico

OK TonyE--give me an assignment


This one has been on my mind for some time. PAK has been renovating the EC2003 victory conditions and orders. Trouble is he hasn't had a ton of support from me in terms of working his changes back into the game. What would be great is if you could go thru the Issue Tracker at http://harpgamer.com/harpforum/index.php?autocom=bugtracker and look thru the EC2003 scenario Issues (ex. "EC2003 HDSH Giuk Scen#10 Ballistic Blues"). Compile a list of the ones that are ready to go and post the list to the Beta testing forum at http://harpgamer.com/harpforum/index.php?showforum=33 .

So in essence I'm looking for a list of links to the issues that have the revamped scenarios ready to roll. If you get adventerous, check out the orders files and do your own grammatical tweaking along the way. Bonus points if you also link directly to the appropriate file within each issue report.

Let us know if this is a suitable task!


_____________________________

Sincerely,
Tony Eischens
Harpoon (HC, HCE, HUCE, Classic) programmer
HarpGamer.com Co-Owner

(in reply to old tico)
Post #: 21
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