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questions on the new patch - 5/16/2010 5:29:43 AM

el cid

Posts: 186
Joined: 1/28/2006
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Ralph and the team,

Plenty has been talked about the new interface, but I am more interested in the fuctioning of the game. If you find the time, could you let me know:

Will the new patch address the cooperation bug reported by Damezzi?

Will it address the ant attack problem?

Will it address that bug concerning that only the artillery unit on top will support the attack/defense (I can�t remember the details)?

How will the new P1/P2 sequnce of calculations work? at what point will the supply be calculated, at what point will the reinforcements and replacements arrive?

I thought somewhere was a "whats new list" but I can�t find it.

Post #: 1

RE: questions on the new patch - 5/16/2010 10:59:37 AM

stefanoc

Posts: 28
Joined: 2/1/2009
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And the attack helicopter bug? (elmer don't use attack helicopter after one turn, and all the modern scenarios lost this important weapon!) PLEASE! For me, this is the only real bug!

Thanks!

(in reply to el cid)

Post #: 2

RE: questions on the new patch - 5/16/2010 4:52:29 PM

ralphtricky

Posts: 6685
Joined: 7/27/2003
From: Colorado Springs
Status: offline

There is now code which attenuates attacks with units that aren't cooperating.
Attacking at less than 1:1 odds don't generate the same supply loss for the defender, and less than 1:10 are even worse, so ant attacks aren't likely to be useful.
All artillery should now support, instead of the top one.
There are two distinct sets of calculations, one set is between turns and the other set is between player moves. Weather is done each turn, while supply is done between sides. I don't remember the rest off-hand.

_____________________________

Ralph Trickey
TOAW IV Programmer
Blog: http://operationalwarfare.com
---
My comments are my own, and do not represent the views of any other person or entity. Nothing that I say should be construed in any way as a promise of anything.

(in reply to el cid)

Post #: 3

RE: questions on the new patch - 5/16/2010 4:53:22 PM

ralphtricky

Posts: 6685
Joined: 7/27/2003
From: Colorado Springs
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quote:

ORIGINAL: stefanoc
And the attack helicopter bug? (elmer don't use attack helicopter after one turn, and all the modern scenarios lost this important weapon!) PLEASE! For me, this is the only real bug!

Thanks!

Do you have an example? I remember doing some work the Elmer and attack helicopters, but I don't remember the details.

_____________________________

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Post #: 4

RE: questions on the new patch - 5/16/2010 5:49:40 PM

stefanoc

Posts: 28
Joined: 2/1/2009
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thanks for the reply! and excuse me for my english!
example : elmer make the status of all the attack helicopter in REST, only if in the editor the status is set to COMBAT SUPPORT, for ONLY the first turn elmer use the attack helicopter! after, for all the game, elmer turn the status in REST,

ANOTHER EXAMPLE : DESERT STORM player=iraq elmer=coalition
For all the war the coalition don't use a single apache! This problem in modern era scenario is devastating!

thanks for your job! if you can change this... in the new patch, you make me happy!

(in reply to ralphtricky)

Post #: 5

RE: questions on the new patch - 5/17/2010 9:04:01 PM

desert

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This man speaks truth.

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"I would rather he had given me one more division"
- Rommel, when Hitler made him a Field Marshall

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Post #: 6

RE: questions on the new patch - 5/18/2010 2:07:19 AM

ralphtricky

Posts: 6685
Joined: 7/27/2003
From: Colorado Springs
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quote:

ORIGINAL: stefanoc

thanks for the reply! and excuse me for my english!
example : elmer make the status of all the attack helicopter in REST, only if in the editor the status is set to COMBAT SUPPORT, for ONLY the first turn elmer use the attack helicopter! after, for all the game, elmer turn the status in REST,

ANOTHER EXAMPLE : DESERT STORM player=iraq elmer=coalition
For all the war the coalition don't use a single apache! This problem in modern era scenario is devastating!

thanks for your job! if you can change this... in the new patch, you make me happy!

Got it. Air in general was too likely to rest sometimes.

Now, Attack helicopters are set to split 50% between combat support and interdiction like a medium bomber does, does that seem reasonable?

Thanks,
Ralph

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Post #: 7

RE: questions on the new patch - 5/18/2010 2:32:59 PM

stefanoc

Posts: 28
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Reasonable? it's Great!

No more attack helicopter bug!
Thanks!! and good luck for the new patch!

(in reply to ralphtricky)

Post #: 8

RE: questions on the new patch - 5/18/2010 4:42:56 PM

ralphtricky

Posts: 6685
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From: Colorado Springs
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No problem. So I don't get a nasty email when the patch is released, Desert storm is 12 hour turns and most of the helicopters don't have night gear, so Elmer only uses most of his air on odd numbered turns.

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Post #: 9

RE: questions on the new patch - 5/19/2010 1:03:15 PM

pionier

Posts: 116
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Hey Ralph,

will there be an option for pbem games: No borders at all onmap? I mean this hexcontrol borders.

regards

pio

(in reply to ralphtricky)

Post #: 10

RE: questions on the new patch - 5/19/2010 4:24:24 PM

mbar

Posts: 492
Joined: 3/17/2010
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Just a question about map scrolling. Will the new interface be able to scroll by moving the mouse to the edge of the PC screen rather than needing to make the curser turn into an arrow at the edge of the map screen?

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Post #: 11

RE: questions on the new patch - 5/19/2010 4:34:29 PM

ralphtricky

Posts: 6685
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From: Colorado Springs
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quote:

ORIGINAL: pionier
Hey Ralph,

will there be an option for pbem games: No borders at all onmap? I mean this hexcontrol borders.

regards

pio

Isn't there a 'No Borders' Option in 3.2, if not, there is in 3.4. It makes the border and supply hexes only appear for hexes adjacent to your units. I did clean it up a bit in 3.4.

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Post #: 12

RE: questions on the new patch - 5/19/2010 4:40:50 PM

ralphtricky

Posts: 6685
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From: Colorado Springs
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mbar

Just a question about map scrolling. Will the new interface be able to scroll by moving the mouse to the edge of the PC screen rather than needing to make the curser turn into an arrow at the edge of the map screen?

No, I'm not sure I can do that since mouse messages outside the window normally don't go to that window. There are exceptions for drag and drop, but in general I don't think I can do that. I may be able to do something with the next patch is it's maximized, but even then, the start menu makes it impossible for the edge that the start menu is on. I'm also not sure that it wouldn't generate more complaints from people taht went to push a button and had the mouse scroll, etc.

You can now drag the map, which is good for small movements. I normally use a combination of that and the jump map in the bottom right corner.

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Post #: 13

RE: questions on the new patch - 5/19/2010 5:07:20 PM

pionier

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ralphtrick

quote:

ORIGINAL: pionier
Hey Ralph,

will there be an option for pbem games: No borders at all onmap? I mean this hexcontrol borders.

regards

pio

Isn't there a 'No Borders' Option in 3.2, if not, there is in 3.4. It makes the border and supply hexes only appear for hexes adjacent to your units. I did clean it up a bit in 3.4.

Yes it is, my wish was to give the option to turn off borders completly, so that there is none adjacent to my units.

(in reply to ralphtricky)

Post #: 14

RE: questions on the new patch - 5/19/2010 5:29:32 PM

Curtis Lemay

Posts: 12969
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From: Houston, TX
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quote:

ORIGINAL: pionier

Yes it is, my wish was to give the option to turn off borders completly, so that there is none adjacent to my units.

Designers can set hex-conversion costs to as low as zero in 3.4 - if that's what you mean.

(in reply to pionier)

Post #: 15

RE: questions on the new patch - 5/19/2010 5:43:03 PM

pionier

Posts: 116
Joined: 12/9/2007
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No i just was wondering why there is no possibility to turn off borders just on the map, at least as an option for pbem games.

regards

(in reply to Curtis Lemay)

Post #: 16

RE: questions on the new patch - 5/19/2010 6:39:01 PM

mbar

Posts: 492
Joined: 3/17/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ralphtrick

You can now drag the map, which is good for small movements. I normally use a combination of that and the jump map in the bottom right corner.

Ah! Thanks for reminding me about "drag map" being in the new patch. Yes that will make it easier. Thanks for answering my scrolling question too.

(in reply to ralphtricky)

Post #: 17

RE: questions on the new patch - 5/19/2010 8:39:15 PM

golden delicious

Posts: 5575
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From: London, Surrey, United Kingdom
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quote:

ORIGINAL: pionier

No i just was wondering why there is no possibility to turn off borders just on the map, at least as an option for pbem games.

regards

You could always make the graphic blank. Then you wouldn't see them.

_____________________________

"What did you read at university?"
"War Studies"
"War? Huh. What is it good for?"
"Absolutely nothing."

(in reply to pionier)

Post #: 18

RE: questions on the new patch - 5/19/2010 11:45:29 PM

Panama

Posts: 1362
Joined: 10/30/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: golden delicious

quote:

ORIGINAL: pionier

No i just was wondering why there is no possibility to turn off borders just on the map, at least as an option for pbem games.

regards

You could always make the graphic blank. Then you wouldn't see them.

lol, simplicity is a difficult concept to grasp.

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Post #: 19

RE: questions on the new patch - 5/20/2010 12:35:51 AM

BillLottJr

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Joined: 4/24/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Panama

quote:

ORIGINAL: golden delicious

quote:

ORIGINAL: pionier

No i just was wondering why there is no possibility to turn off borders just on the map, at least as an option for pbem games.

regards

You could always make the graphic blank. Then you wouldn't see them.

lol, simplicity is a difficult concept to grasp.

In a PBEM game, you would have to trust that your opponent also was using a blank graphic.

(in reply to Panama)

Post #: 20

RE: questions on the new patch - 5/20/2010 3:27:47 AM

Panama

Posts: 1362
Joined: 10/30/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill II

quote:

ORIGINAL: Panama

quote:

ORIGINAL: golden delicious

quote:

ORIGINAL: pionier

No i just was wondering why there is no possibility to turn off borders just on the map, at least as an option for pbem games.

regards

You could always make the graphic blank. Then you wouldn't see them.

lol, simplicity is a difficult concept to grasp.

In a PBEM game, you would have to trust that your opponent also was using a blank graphic.

changing the graphic would be the only way to have no borders once the scenario has started. make a copy of the border graphic and eliminate the borders then put them in a folder with the same name as the scenario in the Graphics folder. i think that would do it, wouldn't it? and yes, trust is a must.

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Post #: 21

RE: questions on the new patch - 5/20/2010 7:34:58 PM

golden delicious

Posts: 5575
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From: London, Surrey, United Kingdom
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill II

In a PBEM game, you would have to trust that your opponent also was using a blank graphic.

If I distrust someone, I don't play PBEM with them.

< Message edited by golden delicious -- 5/20/2010 7:36:45 PM >

_____________________________

"What did you read at university?"
"War Studies"
"War? Huh. What is it good for?"
"Absolutely nothing."

(in reply to BillLottJr)

Post #: 22

RE: questions on the new patch - 5/20/2010 8:13:17 PM

el cid

Posts: 186
Joined: 1/28/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ralphtrick

There is now code which attenuates attacks with units that aren't cooperating.
Attacking at less than 1:1 odds don't generate the same supply loss for the defender, and less than 1:10 are even worse, so ant attacks aren't likely to be useful.
All artillery should now support, instead of the top one.
There are two distinct sets of calculations, one set is between turns and the other set is between player moves. Weather is done each turn, while supply is done between sides. I don't remember the rest off-hand.

Thanks, this is all good to hear. I am looking forward to the next patch.

How does the non-cooperative units attacking is attenuated? do they suffer a penalty reuction (maybe number of units actually firing, or the force that they fire with) or does it affect having more turn burn?

And one final question, another thing very much disliked by TOAW comunity is having small units widthstanding attacks in the face of much larger forces (specially recon units which are imposible to hit, and end up causing a full turn burn when attacked). Is thi addressed in th new patch?

(in reply to ralphtricky)

Post #: 23

RE: questions on the new patch - 5/25/2010 7:17:22 PM

pionier

Posts: 116
Joined: 12/9/2007
Status: offline

Hey Ralph, might it be possible to give us players the opportunity to use a speedup key in the replay? I'm watching all the fite repplays. It would be useful if we could speed up the train movement via a key? For a replay with 6.000 movements i waste 30 min... (Half moveing traings)

best regards

pio

(in reply to el cid)

Post #: 24

RE: questions on the new patch - 5/26/2010 2:26:42 AM

desert

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Press Caps Lock.

_____________________________

"I would rather he had given me one more division"
- Rommel, when Hitler made him a Field Marshall

(in reply to pionier)

Post #: 25

RE: questions on the new patch - 5/26/2010 3:28:52 AM

ralphtricky

Posts: 6685
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From: Colorado Springs
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quote:

ORIGINAL: desert
Press Caps Lock.

Cool. Does shift work too?

(in reply to desert)

Post #: 26

RE: questions on the new patch - 5/26/2010 6:53:54 AM

pionier

Posts: 116
Joined: 12/9/2007
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No shift not. But cool I thought it wouldn't function in the replay - don't know why.

And thank you(!) I thought I tried that alreasy but it seems really to speed up the process

< Message edited by pionier -- 5/26/2010 7:10:09 AM >

(in reply to ralphtricky)

Post #: 27

RE: questions on the new patch - 5/29/2010 10:50:07 PM

pionier

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Got another one. Whats about large river hexes convertion? Might it be possible to give at least Engineer units the possibility to switch if no enemy is adjactant? Same with flooded marsh? Regards Pio

(in reply to pionier)

Post #: 28

RE: questions on the new patch - 5/29/2010 11:49:38 PM

Panama

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Joined: 10/30/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: pionier

Got another one. Whats about large river hexes convertion? Might it be possible to give at least Engineer units the possibility to switch if no enemy is adjactant? Same with flooded marsh? Regards Pio

Large river conversion? Flooded marsh conversion?

Are you talking about changing a super river hex into a non super river hex? And draining flooded marsh hexes?