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Rationale For Magical Base Expansion Knowledge?

 
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Rationale For Magical Base Expansion Knowledge? - 5/31/2010 1:10:02 PM   
Icedawg


Posts: 1610
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: Upstate New York
Status: offline 		Can anyone explain to me how one side should be made aware of the other side's base expansion without having to recon? As it is now, the opposing side gets a message indicating that a base has been expanded. I can understand the work of spies and such in highly developed areas (Tokyo, PH, Brisbane etc) accounting for the information gained about base expansion. However, how could the opposing side be aware of a small airfield being built on some remote atoll 1000s of miles from the nearest friendly base? It seems like active recon should be required, doesn't it?

I ask because I would like to set up small "secret" airfields from which to fly Nav Search and ASW patrols. As is, I can't do this. Whenever I build such an airfield, my opponent will be given a message indicating that I have expanded the airfield, thereby paritally giving away my intentions.

I thought that one of the new features of AE was that base information was no longer going to be magically given to the enemy. This information was going to have to be earned (by recon or nav search). Was there a change of plans during development?
Post #: 1
RE: Rationale For Magical Base Expansion Knowledge? - 5/31/2010 1:15:12 PM   
LoBaron


Posts: 4776
Joined: 1/26/2003
From: Vienna, Austria
Status: offline 		AFAIK you get this message only when you have a DL on that base.

This can also be due to a sub stationed there or coast watchers.

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RE: Rationale For Magical Base Expansion Knowledge? - 5/31/2010 1:42:23 PM   
Icedawg


Posts: 1610
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: Upstate New York
Status: offline 		Thanks for the explanation. I was thinking that all of these messages I was receiving about enemy base expansion were divine gifts. So now my secretive base construction plans should still work. Nice to know.

By the way, what does AFAIK stand for?

(in reply to LoBaron)
Post #: 3
RE: Rationale For Magical Base Expansion Knowledge? - 5/31/2010 1:48:36 PM   
LoBaron


Posts: 4776
Joined: 1/26/2003
From: Vienna, Austria
Status: offline 		As Far As I Know.

So take with a grain of salt. But I have yet to see an information on an enemy base expansion where I got no DL.

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Post #: 4
RE: Rationale For Magical Base Expansion Knowledge? - 5/31/2010 2:07:44 PM   
castor troy


Posts: 14330
Joined: 8/23/2004
From: Austria
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LoBaron

As Far As I Know.

So take with a grain of salt. But I have yet to see an information on an enemy base expansion where I got no DL.



you also get messages (if you watch them carefully) for bases in Japan, Manchuko or China where you shouldn´t have any coastwatchers, subs, or recon aircraft.

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RE: Rationale For Magical Base Expansion Knowledge? - 5/31/2010 2:10:09 PM   
castor troy


Posts: 14330
Joined: 8/23/2004
From: Austria
Status: offline 		As the next thing will be asking for evidence, by accident I´ve got an operational report with me at work from my PBEM, me as the ALLIED side... and no, Medan and Hakodate are not in Allied hands, nor do I have any recon there. And I´ve also got no subs in those hexes if that would be questioned.

OPERATIONAL REPORT FOR Dec 17, 42
TF 364 does not have enough fuel to complete mission
Hakodate expands airfield to size 5
Medan expands airfield to size 4
Delayed planes for the aircraft pool:


edit: deleted the rest of the report as that´s too much intel for my evil opponent...

< Message edited by castor troy -- 5/31/2010 2:13:10 PM >

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RE: Rationale For Magical Base Expansion Knowledge? - 5/31/2010 2:28:07 PM   
Bogo Mil

 

Posts: 286
Joined: 1/28/2008
Status: offline 		When you watch the replay, you get messages for your own bases only. But the operations report contains messages for all bases. And you can always check the exact size of any base on the map, of course.

I don't think there is a rationale for this. They just didn't program any fog of war here.


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Post #: 7
RE: Rationale For Magical Base Expansion Knowledge? - 5/31/2010 3:34:26 PM   
Thayne

 

Posts: 748
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline 		There are a lot of ways for the military to learn that the enemy is working on expanding various bases and installations - from spies on the ground to captured prisoners to intercepted communications.

Building up a base is not something easily hidden behind lock and key. Anybody living nearby will know about the work being done.

I simply assume that this information got extracted from the various pieces of information somehow.

(in reply to Bogo Mil)
Post #: 8
RE: Rationale For Magical Base Expansion Knowledge? - 5/31/2010 4:08:33 PM   
CapAndGown


Posts: 3206
Joined: 3/6/2001
From: Virginia, USA
Status: offline 		Face it, there is no rationale. The original game was designed so you could gather info on a base by doing a mouse over and that has not changed.

(in reply to Thayne)
Post #: 9
RE: Rationale For Magical Base Expansion Knowledge? - 5/31/2010 5:14:07 PM   
Icedawg


Posts: 1610
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: Upstate New York
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Thayne

There are a lot of ways for the military to learn that the enemy is working on expanding various bases and installations - from spies on the ground to captured prisoners to intercepted communications.

Building up a base is not something easily hidden behind lock and key. Anybody living nearby will know about the work being done.

I simply assume that this information got extracted from the various pieces of information somehow.


I'm referring to small fighter strips on remote atolls. Not many people live on these things and those that do surely don't have radios.

(in reply to Thayne)
Post #: 10
RE: Rationale For Magical Base Expansion Knowledge? - 5/31/2010 5:57:10 PM   
oldman45


Posts: 2320
Joined: 5/1/2005
From: Jacksonville Fl
Status: offline 		It could also be that when that small base used its radio to report that the work is complete the message was intercepted. Sometimes the simple reason is right ;)

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Post #: 11
RE: Rationale For Magical Base Expansion Knowledge? - 5/31/2010 8:50:59 PM   
Bradley7735


Posts: 2073
Joined: 7/12/2004
Status: offline 		I like this feature. The bases that are within 1,000 to 1,500 miles of the front would be easy to spot construction, via subs, coast watchers and search aircraft. This encompases most of the bases that matter. The bases that don't matter are: SE Pacific bases. If you're developing them in secret, to run ASW and Search missions, then I can see your arguement. But, building up a REMOTE base to run search ops seems kind of rediculous. It's remote, meaning no enemy units nearby to spot.

Now, if you're arguing to build up Stewart Island as allies, when Japan holds Lunga, then I don't see your arguement. any half assed plane from Lunga will see your work in progress at Stewart Is, Duff Is, etc.

Building up the French polynesia bases should be relatively secret, but which IJN player will be stuffing that area with subs?

The bases in Manchuria, in theory, could be spotted by Russian planes. There's really not a lot of places on the map that can't be reached by subs, coast watchers or planes.

Anyway, that's my opinion, for what its worth.....

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RE: Rationale For Magical Base Expansion Knowledge? - 5/31/2010 9:18:01 PM   
CapAndGown


Posts: 3206
Joined: 3/6/2001
From: Virginia, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bradley7735

I like this feature. The bases that are within 1,000 to 1,500 miles of the front would be easy to spot construction, via subs, coast watchers and search aircraft. This encompases most of the bases that matter. The bases that don't matter are: SE Pacific bases. If you're developing them in secret, to run ASW and Search missions, then I can see your arguement. But, building up a REMOTE base to run search ops seems kind of rediculous. It's remote, meaning no enemy units nearby to spot.

Now, if you're arguing to build up Stewart Island as allies, when Japan holds Lunga, then I don't see your arguement. any half assed plane from Lunga will see your work in progress at Stewart Is, Duff Is, etc.

Building up the French polynesia bases should be relatively secret, but which IJN player will be stuffing that area with subs?

The bases in Manchuria, in theory, could be spotted by Russian planes. There's really not a lot of places on the map that can't be reached by subs, coast watchers or planes.

Anyway, that's my opinion, for what its worth.....


Mainly, this feature saves a lot of micro-management. No need to constantly run recon to check on the enemy's build up.

(in reply to Bradley7735)
Post #: 13
RE: Rationale For Magical Base Expansion Knowledge? - 6/1/2010 6:34:24 AM   
bradfordkay

 

Posts: 8683
Joined: 3/24/2002
From: Olympia, WA
Status: offline 		Wasn't the airstrip that was built by the Japanese at Munda done almost completely undercover?

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fair winds,
Brad

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Post #: 14
RE: Rationale For Magical Base Expansion Knowledge? - 6/1/2010 7:41:34 AM   
Sredni

 

Posts: 705
Joined: 9/30/2004
From: Canada
Status: offline 		I kinda wish these base expansion messages were color coded. I keep seeing "x base expands airfield to 3" in the ops reports and then I'm left wondering if thats my base or an enemy base or what. The ops reports would be a lot more readable if it wasn't all just plain black text.

Like when your subs get whacked by flying Naval Search or ASW patrols. You don't see that in combat reports, and it's buried in ops with "x sub is spotted by Y patrol plane". So half the time I don't even realize some sub of mine is crippled limping home until it gets there.

If the "sub X is reported hit!" message in ops was in red lettering it'd be a lot easier to pick out.

(in reply to Icedawg)
Post #: 15
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