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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> Uncommon Valor - Campaign for the South Pacific >> Tech Support >> PBEM problems

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PBEM problems - 7/29/2002 7:24:21 PM

elmo3

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Playing Operation MO (#6) PBEM with the 1.20 patch on both ends. The Allied ship sighting reports are showing up during my IJN replay. My Allied opponent has commented that he is not seeing and ship sighting reports at all. I have numerous TF's in the Slot/Lunga area and I get his reports of sighting my own ships there. He has not been able to make one attack against me without sighting reports.

Also got a report of a PBY sighting a "CL" near L'ville which is really one of my subs.

I have a file if Matrix wants it.

Post #: 1

- 7/29/2002 10:13:15 PM

elmo3

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Just spoke to my PBEM opponent by phone. During his Allied replay he sees reports of my IJN planes sighting his subs. However he is pretty sure this was the case prior to the 1.20 patch.

Also his transport TF's are retreating from my CV TF's even though he doesn't get any spotting reports on my TF locations.

As mentioned in my previous post, I have a file if Matrix wants it.

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Post #: 2

- 7/29/2002 10:25:27 PM

Sonny

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Yes, that ECW (Early Carrier Warning) works both ways. The side with the carrier gets to see where some fo your TFs are (but not their composition) and the guy without the carrier gets to find out that there is one out there even if he has not spotted it yet. Needs to be fixed.:)

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Post #: 3

- 7/29/2002 10:37:04 PM

elmo3

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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Sonny
[B]Yes, that ECW (Early Carrier Warning) works both ways. The side with the carrier gets to see where some fo your TFs are (but not their composition) and the guy without the carrier gets to find out that there is one out there even if he has not spotted it yet. Needs to be fixed.:) [/B][/QUOTE]

Yes, I assume ECW as you put it is a known bug to be fixed but it's not a game breaker IMO. However the fact that my opponenet gets no ship sighting reports and can't launch any airstrikes against my ships is a game breaker for him! :)

We have PBEM on hold until this is confirmed as a bug and fixed. Unfortunately _if_ confirmed then everyone else may view PBEM as unplayable too.

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Post #: 4

- 7/30/2002 4:23:32 AM

elmo3

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Can anybody playing the IJN in a PBEM game using the 1.20 patch confirm that you see the Allied sighting reports of your own ships and that the Allies don't launch air strikes against those ships? Thanks.

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Post #: 5

- 7/30/2002 6:54:05 AM

elmo3

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Bump.

Hoping for a confirmation from Matrix or a reply from an IJN PBEM player.

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Post #: 6

- 7/30/2002 7:00:38 AM

XPav

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From: Northern California
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Since I've had the game (v1.11), I've seen Japanese sighting reports when playing as the US. I thought it was sorta goofy myself. I assume its just a "you've been spotted!" message.

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Post #: 7

- 7/30/2002 7:30:50 AM

Joel Billings

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I may be wrong about this, but my understanding is that the replay is exactly the same as the combat phase, so whatever one player is seeing, the other player is seeing also. That was not worked on or changed at all in patch 1.20, IIRC. As for why an airstrike doesn't happen when you think it should, that's a much more complex issue. I wouldn't halt a game because of this as I would be surprised to find that this is a new bug.

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Post #: 8

- 7/30/2002 8:33:11 AM

elmo3

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Thanks for the reply Joel.

I'll encourage my opponenet to play at least another turn since I got reports that several of my ships were spotted in the replay he hasn't seen yet. Based on what you're saying if my opponent doesn't see those same reports then something is wrong.

It is odd though that I, as the IJN player, get a report that a PBY Catalina saw an IJN "CL" which is really one of my subs. How could I know they mistook my sub for a CL?

It is also odd that my opponents transport TF's are retiring from my CV TF's when my opponent has not received any spotting reports at all. How do his TF"s know my CV's are there if they're not spotted?

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Post #: 9

- 7/30/2002 9:39:06 AM

Joel Billings

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You are probably seeing the replay bug that has exhisted from day 1. For some reason we have been unable to figure out, sometimes the replay does not match what really happened. When this happens the US player is seeing an alternate history which probably has little relation to what really happened during the turn. We spent many hours trying to find and fix this bug, but all we were able to do was to decrease the chance that the replay would be wrong. Consider this a random fog of war penalty to the US player, as it isn't likely to be fixed. The problem with the bug is that even with save game files, we have never been able to repeat the bug.

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Post #: 10

- 7/30/2002 11:32:02 AM

dpstafford

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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Joel Billings
[B]I may be wrong about this, but my understanding is that the replay is exactly the same as the combat phase, so whatever one player is seeing, the other player is seeing also. That was not worked on or changed at all in patch 1.20, IIRC. [/B][/QUOTE]
Quit right. The combat report and the replay are EXACTLY the same for both players, through all versions of UV.
And that is just as WRONG today as it has always been.

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Post #: 11

- 7/30/2002 4:50:36 PM

elmo3

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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Joel Billings
[B]You are probably seeing the replay bug that has exhisted from day 1. .... Consider this a random fog of war penalty to the US player.... [/B][/QUOTE]

Thanks for the followup and yes my Allied opponent has been seeing it since the beginning. We can live with a little extra FOW since that particular issue certainly isn't distorting the game to the point of being unplayable.

I'll report back after my opponent sees the current replay to let you know whether he gets the same reports I got or not.

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Post #: 12

Replays - 7/31/2002 8:11:43 AM

jshaniii

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Joel-
I really don't understand how the replay, with FOW turned on, is supposed to be the same for both sides. My sub is unlikely to know it was spotted by a Mavis. My task forces retreating from carriers I haven't sighted seems to be a serious problem. In this game I have sent out extensive numbers of naval search planes and gotten zero intell. I know which of my subs the Japs have spotted though. Do you really think this is correct?

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Post #: 13

- 7/31/2002 9:02:01 AM

Joel Billings

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My understanding is that given the way the replay is coded, it needs to be exactly the same as what the Japanese player is seeing. Is it the ideal way, no, but it makes the game equal for both players. As for your ships withdrawing from carriers that aren't spotted, I assumed Gary only withdrew TF's from carriers that have a Max Detection Level of at least 1, but I could be wrong about this. Again, it's odd, but you can consider it extra intelligence. It's possilbe Gary did this on purpose or it would be too easy for a CV group to close on a transport group before the CV group's presence was known to the player and the player had a chance to give new orders.

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Post #: 14

- 7/31/2002 5:03:37 PM

elmo3

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Joel

My opponent says he did see the same reports I saw last turn. Not sure why he didn't before but it looks like the replay works as advertised so we'll continue our game.

I can see a sub knowing it was spotted if it was on the surface and a lookout spotted the plane that spotted it. The rest falls under the category of designer discretion I guess. Thanks for your continued support.

elmo3

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Post #: 15

Combined replay.... - 7/31/2002 7:34:47 PM

Erik Rutins

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For PBEM UV does use a combined replay, as Joel has stated. It's been this way all along. What is reported is generally only what needs to be seen, which includes sighting reports and battle reports. Messages about resupply operations and arrival of reinforcements aren't displayed to preserve fog of war.

You will only see things that you could have potentially spotted (if a search plane flies over your TF, you could be aware). The minor break in fog of war is that you would generally not be able to intercept the report of what was spotted by the enemy plane, but this is a minor point in the overall scope of things. Having played hundreds of turns of UV PBEM, it does do a good job of preserving the fog of war, maintaining suspense and keeping the other side quite in the dark about what you're doing.

To get an idea of what's being left out, compare it to the single player replay, which gives you a lot more info that you and your opponent do _not_ see in PBEM.

Regards,

- Erik

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Post #: 16

- 7/31/2002 10:52:46 PM

elmo3

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Hi Erik

Thanks for jumping in. I'm happy with the level of reporting during the PBEM replay. My only reason for starting this thread was that it looked like my opponent _wasn't_ seeing the spotting reports of my ships that I was seeing and it looked like that was preventing him from launching strikes. Last turn he did see the same reports although no strikes were launched. As Joel says there could be many reasons for not launching. So we'll keep playing, it is lots of fun afterall :), and we'll come back to this thread if we can reproduce a problem. Thanks.

elmo3

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Post #: 17