Optimal altitude for ASW patrols.

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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> The War Room >> Optimal altitude for ASW patrols.

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Optimal altitude for ASW patrols. - 6/10/2010 8:33:49 PM

FatR

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The title of the thread pretty much sums up the main question. Does anyone know, at which altitude ASW patrol planes can operate optimally? Is it 6k, as it is supposed to be for NavSearch, or can you set it, say, to 1-2k and achieve a comparable number of detections? This is a pretty crucial question, as the secondary skill in which one should train his ASW groups depends on it (NavB or LowN).

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RE: Optimal altitude for ASW patrols. - 6/10/2010 8:52:11 PM

RUDOLF

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1000ft

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RE: Optimal altitude for ASW patrols. - 6/10/2010 9:25:50 PM

Bullwinkle58

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quote:

ORIGINAL: FatR

The title of the thread pretty much sums up the main question. Does anyone know, at which altitude ASW patrol planes can operate optimally? Is it 6k, as it is supposed to be for NavSearch, or can you set it, say, to 1-2k and achieve a comparable number of detections? This is a pretty crucial question, as the secondary skill in which one should train his ASW groups depends on it (NavB or LowN).

Do you care about Ops losses?

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RE: Optimal altitude for ASW patrols. - 6/10/2010 9:32:40 PM

Swenslim

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From: Odessa, Ukraine
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ASW uses only ASW skill. I think 3000 feet is good altitude.

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RE: Optimal altitude for ASW patrols. - 6/10/2010 9:38:30 PM

Bullwinkle58

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Swenslim

ASW uses only ASW skill. I think 3000 feet is good altitude.

I can buy that. I usually do 2000 ASW, and 6000 for Naval Search.

I picture trying to hold an analog flight control system in a multi-engine beast at 1000 feet for a half-day's patrol and have no problem accepting Ops losses the model hands me.

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RE: Optimal altitude for ASW patrols. - 6/10/2010 10:07:25 PM

FatR

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Swenslim

ASW uses only ASW skill. I think 3000 feet is good altitude.

The game manual states that ASW works like NavSearch, except with a higher chance of sub detection. This presumably means that you need the appropriate attack skill to actually hit subs. In my Japanese PBEM skilled pilots from the initial KB and Betty units complement report hits on subs semi-regularly on normal NavSearch, while in my Allied game, my opponent's ASW planes, presumably from dedicated ASW units, launch attacks often but rarely hit. That's why I'm asking.

< Message edited by FatR -- 6/10/2010 10:08:45 PM >

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RE: Optimal altitude for ASW patrols. - 6/10/2010 10:15:31 PM

Bullwinkle58

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quote:

ORIGINAL: FatR

quote:

ORIGINAL: Swenslim

ASW uses only ASW skill. I think 3000 feet is good altitude.

The game manual states that ASW works like NavSearch, except with a higher chance of sub detection. This presumably means that you need the appropriate attack skill to actually hit subs. In my Japanese PBEM skilled pilots from the initial KB and Betty units complement report hits on subs semi-regularly on normal NavSearch, while in my Allied game, my opponent's ASW planes, presumably from dedicated ASW units, launch attacks often but rarely hit. That's why I'm asking.

But though they report hits on NavSearch, do they really get hits? I've never believed any of those "off-phase" air attack reports, for either side, in ASW or NavSearch mode. FOW, with few exceptions.

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RE: Optimal altitude for ASW patrols. - 6/10/2010 10:28:40 PM

FatR

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58
But though they report hits on NavSearch, do they really get hits? I've never believed any of those "off-phase" air attack reports, for either side, in ASW or NavSearch mode. FOW, with few exceptions.

I've certainly seen ships damaged before they were hit by an actual raid. But as planes on search carry their extended range load, I doubt anything larger than a PT boat ever sank from it.

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RE: Optimal altitude for ASW patrols. - 6/10/2010 10:37:25 PM

SqzMyLemon

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

But though they report hits on NavSearch, do they really get hits? I've never believed any of those "off-phase" air attack reports, for either side, in ASW or NavSearch mode. FOW, with few exceptions.

In a PBEM game I'm playing, I've destroyed an enemy submarine with a 250kg bomb hit from a Japanese bomber flying ASW search at 2000' and I've also lost a sub to a bombing attack from an Allied aircraft on ASW, but I can not recall the bomb size or altitude. So it does happen on rare occasions.

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RE: Optimal altitude for ASW patrols. - 6/10/2010 10:55:17 PM

herwin

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SqzMyLemon

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

But though they report hits on NavSearch, do they really get hits? I've never believed any of those "off-phase" air attack reports, for either side, in ASW or NavSearch mode. FOW, with few exceptions.

In a PBEM game I'm playing, I've destroyed an enemy submarine with a 250kg bomb hit from a Japanese bomber flying ASW search at 2000' and I've also lost a sub to a bombing attack from an Allied aircraft on ASW, but I can not recall the bomb size or altitude. So it does happen on rare occasions.

In the game, it used to be the most common cause of sinking for some ship classes...

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RE: Optimal altitude for ASW patrols. - 6/11/2010 2:03:41 PM

xj900uk

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Also remember to use a slow-flying (bi)plane on ASW. The Swordfish is ideal, in WWII flying 'Scarecrow' patrols, pairs of Swordfish in the N Atlantic destroyed more U-boats than any other type of ASW in that theatre...

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RE: Optimal altitude for ASW patrols. - 6/11/2010 10:16:58 PM

crsutton

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quote:

ORIGINAL: FatR

quote:

ORIGINAL: Swenslim

ASW uses only ASW skill. I think 3000 feet is good altitude.

The game manual states that ASW works like NavSearch, except with a higher chance of sub detection. This presumably means that you need the appropriate attack skill to actually hit subs. In my Japanese PBEM skilled pilots from the initial KB and Betty units complement report hits on subs semi-regularly on normal NavSearch, while in my Allied game, my opponent's ASW planes, presumably from dedicated ASW units, launch attacks often but rarely hit. That's why I'm asking.

Well, virtually all of those reported hits are misses. FOW.

Everybody has an opinion about the correct height for ASW, but to tell the truth, nobody has a clue and I don't think that I have seen anybody back it up with testing. I mix the altitiudes up for no particular reason.

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RE: Optimal altitude for ASW patrols. - 6/13/2010 4:29:38 AM

Central Blue

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quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

quote:

ORIGINAL: FatR

quote:

ORIGINAL: Swenslim

ASW uses only ASW skill. I think 3000 feet is good altitude.

The game manual states that ASW works like NavSearch, except with a higher chance of sub detection. This presumably means that you need the appropriate attack skill to actually hit subs. In my Japanese PBEM skilled pilots from the initial KB and Betty units complement report hits on subs semi-regularly on normal NavSearch, while in my Allied game, my opponent's ASW planes, presumably from dedicated ASW units, launch attacks often but rarely hit. That's why I'm asking.

Well, virtually all of those reported hits are misses. FOW.

Everybody has an opinion about the correct height for ASW, but to tell the truth, nobody has a clue and I don't think that I have seen anybody back it up with testing. I mix the altitiudes up for no particular reason.

In January '43 I'm trying lower altitudes (below 5k feet) because the skill and experience ratings are high enough not to waste assets. I haven't noticed a whole lot more kills. If you keep them deep, or send them back to port for repairs, then it's working.

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RE: Optimal altitude for ASW patrols. - 6/13/2010 2:22:00 PM

AirGriff

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I did a little testing some time back. Reported attacks on a general type of ship, "-attacks XX class ship" or something like that meant the patrol didn't hit anything. If a specific ship was named, then the crew most likely eyeballed the hit.

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RE: Optimal altitude for ASW patrols. - 6/14/2010 2:44:30 PM

CarnageINC

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For the Japanese, what is the best to consider for ASW, range or bomb load. I've been trying a number of the 1 engine float planes that are around and so far none seem worth a dam. Should I focus on the 2e/4e and shorten their patrol ranges?

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RE: Optimal altitude for ASW patrols. - 6/14/2010 9:36:49 PM

treespider

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CarnageINC

For the Japanese, what is the best to consider for ASW, range or bomb load.� I've been trying a number of the 1 engine float planes that are around and so far none seem worth a dam.� Should I focus on the 2e/4e and shorten their patrol ranges?

Used to be the number of bombs...Lily's used to be the "Bomb"... now not so sure.... Netty's seem to work well...Skill matters..

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RE: Optimal altitude for ASW patrols. - 6/14/2010 11:19:31 PM

Skacee

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Historicaly it was about 1000-1500 ft (Shattered Sword). But how it is in this game I dont know. In 42 I use Netties, bomb, max range and a combined with naval search by other sq. Skill is definitively very important.

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Post #: 17

RE: Optimal altitude for ASW patrols. - 6/15/2010 1:18:13 AM

FatR

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CarnageINC

For the Japanese, what is the best to consider for ASW, range or bomb load.� I've been trying a number of the 1 engine float planes that are around and so far none seem worth a dam.� Should I focus on the 2e/4e and shorten their patrol ranges?

As far as I'm aware, only patrol range, detection devices and the weight of individual bombs matter.

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RE: Optimal altitude for ASW patrols. - 6/15/2010 11:57:31 AM

xj900uk

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I would have thought that speed of ASW-aircraft had something to do with it as well. The slower the better - Swordfish could virtually 'hover' over one spot when flying into a Force 8 Atlantic gale... a distinct advantage when you are trying to detect subs and one reason why in the 21st Century choppers are about the best ASW assets imaginable...

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Post #: 19