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RE: 24th June 1942

 
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RE: 24th June 1942 - 11/30/2010 1:20:05 PM   
Itdepends

 

Posts: 937
Joined: 12/12/2005
Status: offline 		Having read the other AAR I have some idea of your pain........but do share.

(P.S.- I'm FatR's other new PBEM opponent- and I just slaughtered 4-5K of his troops on the boats as an invansion force in the DEI with Force Z in late Dec '41, unfortunately he returned the favour with mini KB on a evacuation convoy from Singapore)

Daniel

(in reply to yubari)
Post #: 181
RE: 24th June 1942 - 11/30/2010 1:36:13 PM   
janh

 

Posts: 1216
Joined: 6/12/2007
Status: offline 		Huuh, yeah, bad luck with the naval battle -- but look at how sturdy the British CV are!  If you had been a little luckier, Adamans could have turned into FatR's Midway.  It would seem, though, that you have a pretty holy recon screen in the Indian ocean?

Even though the outcome was bad, I think the island are still tenable for you, and you have already caused your opponent severe headaches by slaughtering several squadrons of fighters and bombers there.  If he decides to counterinvade, you make make it very very expensive, or maybe impossible  -- and rather soon you will have received sufficient new CVs, and tons of CVL and CVE.  It would still seem that the Adamans will be the turning point and will attrit his LCU and air forces slowly, but steadily... 

The thing you will need to plan for are some sneaky maneuvers to get supply convoys in...  I still think your Adamans campaign was a brilliant idea, and caught FatR offguard while KB was busy "slurping cocktails" on Hilo.   Maybe it can be considered early for such aggressive moves, but timing was quite right.  Imagine you would have caught miniKB there earlier with the sturdy british units!?


(in reply to yubari)
Post #: 182
RE: 24th June 1942 - 11/30/2010 7:51:56 PM   
crsutton


Posts: 9590
Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Maryland
Status: offline 		Time to suck it up. You will be OK. It is just going to be a longer war than you had anticipated...Good hunting.

_____________________________

I am the Holy Roman Emperor and am above grammar.

Sigismund of Luxemburg

(in reply to janh)
Post #: 183
RE: 24th June 1942 - 11/30/2010 7:59:36 PM   
Smeulders

 

Posts: 1879
Joined: 8/9/2009
Status: offline 		The invasion was always a high-risk strategy. If you had won this carrier battle you'd have been in a magnificent position, now not so much but as Allies you can come back.

(in reply to crsutton)
Post #: 184
RE: 24th June 1942 - 12/2/2010 6:31:01 PM   
yubari

 

Posts: 365
Joined: 3/24/2006
Status: offline 		Heavens, I have never been beaten that badly before, it took me about 4 days before I could even open the turn file, but the next turn has now been sent.

In what will surely be remembered as one of the biggest mistakes ever made in this game I have to reveal the reason for my crushing defeat here. Following the torpedoing earlier of the Enterprise and her subsequent inability to launch planes, Hornet was detached to provide an aerial escort against any possible Bettys operating from Nell. In the end it was unnecessary as the Enterprise group wasnt even spotted the following day. Also, the carrier groups were ordered to 20 percent naval search and 50 percent ASW search. Not only did I go into the battle with two of the US carriers missing, two thirds of the US bombers didnt even have orders to attack!

Andamans.
US fleet crushed!
Oh dear, everything I have been trying to avoid happened in the last turn as a huge Japanese carrier fleet appears out of nowhere, 6 hexes south of Koggala. It was too painful for me to watch the replay, I imagine that FatR has a detailed account on his AAR so if you want a proper explanation then that is the place to go. Carriers sunk at the end of the day are the Lexington, Saratoga and Yorktown. The Formidable took 4 torpedoes and will almost certainly sink. The Indomitable and Illustrious both took lots of bombs but one torpedo, if luck and the weather stays with me then they stand a small chance of escape.
In many ways I was very lucky that my morning strike targeted the light carriers rather than the main KB, three of the small carriers, the Shoho, Zuiho and Nisshin were all reported with heavy fires and heavy damage and so should hopefully sink, Ryujo and Hiyo also both took a torpedo. The afternoon strike, considerably smaller, failed to get a single hit against the main KB.


Why did this happen?
There were two main reasons for my defeat. The first was the torpedoing of the Enterprise. With its planes grounded due to damage, the Hornet was detached to provide escort and this immediately took two carriers out of the crucial battle. Not only this, I also set all of the carrier groups to ASW duty, an action which took a huge number of Dauntlesses out of action.
The second reason is that, with the appearance of the mini KB in the area at the end of May but no sighting of the main KB between then and now, I simply assumed that FatR was doing upgrades to the carriers in the home islands. The apparent sighting of only 2 light carriers south of Java a couple of weeks ago merely added more evidence. A staggering complacency, not dissimilar to what the real Reluctant Admiral showed at Midway, I simply didn't even consider that the whole KB could be there, them having spent as far as I can tell literally every single day at sea so far.

I would like to be able to point bad luck with dice rolls, carriers reacting, bad weather or the improved Japanese fleet and Zero in this mod but the simple fact is that I made a terrible mistake, and paid badly for it. Congratulations also to FatR for fooling me.

What now?
This puts a whole different complexion on the war. I had been planning on a landing at the end of Sumatra, indeed my troops were just a day or two from landing there at the end of May only for me to lose my nerve.
FatR will surely strike hard again next turn so I will need to think of a way to protect what remains of the allied fleet. In the long term, surely FatR will now try to retake the Andamans, I shall need to try to sneak in more troops to the southern islands. In particular I will need to avoid any carrier combat until September 1943, when a whole lot of new US carriers will arrive and I will have a lot of Hellcats available.

More bad news.
Two Japanese AMCs appear in the Bay of Alaska and fight against a transport fleet just one day away from meeting its escorting destroyers. The one escort, the APD Little fights very well and sets one of the AMCs on fire; reported as a heavy fire it will hopefully mean that it sinks.

Even more bad news.
A submarine is sunk by Japanese subchasers near Singapore and a second submarine is sunk by a bomb near Hawaii.

Some relatively good news.
A cruiser task force bombards Port Moresby and then B-17s follow up, around 90 hits are reported and a few planes are destroyed on the ground. I need to think now if it is worth trying to take Horn Island.




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(in reply to Itdepends)
Post #: 185
RE: 24th June 1942 - 12/2/2010 6:31:51 PM   
yubari

 

Posts: 365
Joined: 3/24/2006
Status: offline 		Planes lost.




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Post #: 186
RE: 24th June 1942 - 12/2/2010 6:32:57 PM   
yubari

 

Posts: 365
Joined: 3/24/2006
Status: offline 		Pilots lost. Note that most of the US planes were able to return to land on Ceylon which resulted in these relatively light losses.




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Post #: 187
RE: 24th June 1942 - 12/2/2010 6:38:05 PM   
yubari

 

Posts: 365
Joined: 3/24/2006
Status: offline 		And finally the points.

Tomorrows turn.
I am left in an incredibly difficult position. I expect to see lots of battleship bombarding Trincomalee tonight, hopefully the 6 Royal Navy battleships will be able to provide some sort of defence. For the next turn, I have ordered all remaining ships to congregate two hexes south east of Trincomalee (as far as the damaged British carriers could reach.)
On Ceylon are around 450 land based fighters (including escapees from the doomed American carriers), about 100 dive bombers, 50 torpedo bombers and 100 medium bombers (these have been set roughly half on low level attack and half on level bombing). With the Hornet being the only carrier left capable of launching planes (Enterprise is still suffering from damage greater than 50 percent) I am not particularly hopeful of achieving any great damage here but hopefully the huge land based CAP should provide some good defence for my ships.






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(in reply to yubari)
Post #: 188
RE: 24th June 1942 - 12/2/2010 11:45:31 PM   
vicberg

 

Posts: 1176
Joined: 4/19/2008
Status: offline 		If I were in your position right now, I'd make a major push into Thailand from Burma...throw everything you have at it...It's the best chance you have for saving your divs in the Andamans. The burma attack will negate jap carrier power and allow you to regain the initative. I would abandon naval support for the Andamans and supply them with air trans. If you can capture the coast road down to victoria point, it will deny him a number of bases and provide forward air cover for a possible transfer of troops from the Andamans to Malaysia. I use the word "possible" loosely because his carriers will dominate the region for the next 6 months. However, with sufficient air in the Andamans, it will probably keep his carriers at bay.

(in reply to yubari)
Post #: 189
RE: 24th June 1942 - 12/3/2010 12:50:34 AM   
witpqs


Posts: 26087
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline 		Hmmm... any divisions defending against a Burma thrust would definitely not be attacking the Andamans.

(in reply to vicberg)
Post #: 190
RE: 24th June 1942 - 12/3/2010 2:34:57 AM   
vicberg

 

Posts: 1176
Joined: 4/19/2008
Status: offline 		Don't get gettin any ideas from this George...keep your eyes on the watch and repeat after me...don't invade Thailand in our game....don't invade Thailand in our game...at the count of 3....

(in reply to witpqs)
Post #: 191
RE: 24th June 1942 - 12/3/2010 10:10:52 AM   
Itdepends

 

Posts: 937
Joined: 12/12/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: yubari
Why did this happen?
There were two main reasons for my defeat. The first was the torpedoing of the Enterprise. With its planes grounded due to damage, the Hornet was detached to provide escort and this immediately took two carriers out of the crucial battle. Not only this, I also set all of the carrier groups to ASW duty, an action which took a huge number of Dauntlesses out of action.
The second reason is that, with the appearance of the mini KB in the area at the end of May but no sighting of the main KB between then and now, I simply assumed that FatR was doing upgrades to the carriers in the home islands. The apparent sighting of only 2 light carriers south of Java a couple of weeks ago merely added more evidence. A staggering complacency, not dissimilar to what the real Reluctant Admiral showed at Midway, I simply didn't even consider that the whole KB could be there, them having spent as far as I can tell literally every single day at sea so far.
A cruiser task force bombards Port Moresby and then B-17s follow up, around 90 hits are reported and a few planes are destroyed on the ground. I need to think now if it is worth


I'd suggest the root cause of the defeat (as I'm finding) is insufficient recon- when the enemy is known to be stronger than you- unless you
A) know where the bugger is
B) Have enough recon in place to know where he isn't

You're rolling the dice each time.

Getting enough recon is a whole different kettle of fish.

(in reply to yubari)
Post #: 192
RE: 24th June 1942 - 12/3/2010 1:16:45 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		Yubari, misery not only loves company, it needs it.

Bro, I've been just where you are and worse. Most other Allied players have too. It really, really stinks. It's demoralizing. It's horrifying.

Probably one in four Allied players toss in the towel at this point. Those who soldier on make a surprising discovery: the Allies can come back and defeat Japan. It's challenging and it will make you a better player...and man is it sweet!

So stick in there and do it!

(in reply to Itdepends)
Post #: 193
RE: 24th June 1942 - 12/3/2010 3:32:21 PM   
CapAndGown


Posts: 3206
Joined: 3/6/2001
From: Virginia, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Probably one in four Allied players toss in the towel at this point. Those who soldier on make a surprising discovery: the Allies can come back and defeat Japan. It's challenging and it will make you a better player...and man is it sweet!



Not this JFB!

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 194
25th June 1942 - 12/4/2010 12:18:29 PM   
yubari

 

Posts: 365
Joined: 3/24/2006
Status: offline 		When your luck is down, it can only ever get worse.

Andamans.
Things take a turn for the worse overnight. First a small cruiser force manages to get among the retreating British carriers and manages to dispatch the Illustrious. The escorting British ships do absolutely nothing.

Japanese Ships
CA Mogami
DD Hagikaze, Shell hits 1

Allied Ships
CV Indomitable, Shell hits 3
CV Illustrious, Shell hits 12, heavy fires, heavy damage
CA Dorsetshire
CA Exeter, Shell hits 1
CL Hobart
CL Ceres
CL Glasgow
DD Patterson
DD Craven
DD Porter
DD Bulmer

They come back for a second time.

Japanese Ships
CA Mogami
DD Hagikaze

Allied Ships
CV Indomitable, Shell hits 1, on fire
CV Illustrious, Shell hits 9, Torpedo hits 4, and is sunk
DD Bulmer

In a night battle the US surface fleet manages to get heavily defeated by the admittedly superior Japanese fleet.

Japanese Ships
BB Kongo
BB Hiei, Shell hits 2
DD Amatsukaze
DD Ikazuchi, Shell hits 3
DD Asagiri
DD Ushio

Allied Ships
CA Chester, Shell hits 9, heavy fires, heavy damage
CL St. Louis, Shell hits 3
CL Caledon, Shell hits 2
DD Mustin, Shell hits 3, Torpedo hits 2, and is sunk
DD Arunta
DD Isaac Sweers
DD La Triomphant, Shell hits 3, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk

In a second battle they finish off the Chester and Isaac Sweers, in a third battle sink the CV Formidable and then in a fourth and fifth battle sink the Indomitable. Throughout the whole series of battles none of the 6 Royal Navy battleships is even spotted.

We move to the morning phase, 700 allied aviators are ready on the bases at Ceylon and Trincomalee. Weather is fine at Ceylon and light clouds at Trincomalee, the Japanese fleet is spotted seven hexes away and retribution is ready. Over 300 fighters are ready to fly LRCAP over the Hornet and Enterprise, two hexes away from Trincomalee.
Then the really bad things start happening. Hornet reacts towards the enemy.
Only 15 land based fighters are able to provide cover, along the with her entire fighter wing. She is blown out of the water. The action then moves to the Enterprise, 21 land based fighters rise to defend. The Enterprise is blown out of the water.
Now the allies turn to attack. With all of her fighters on CAP, the 28 SBDs of the Hornet attack unescorted, not a single plane survives. From Ceylon, 6 B-26s rise to attack, one even gets to miss the Hiyo before being destroyed by flak. None of the other 100 or so bombers attack. From Trincomalee, not even a single plane attacks.


Overall.
It is astonishing how quickly things change. Just two turns ago I was quietly confident of winning before 1944, now I am looking at the complete destruction of the allied fleet. I think I want to cry.

(in reply to Itdepends)
Post #: 195
RE: 25th June 1942 - 12/4/2010 12:31:12 PM   
yubari

 

Posts: 365
Joined: 3/24/2006
Status: offline 		Aye Itdepends, you are absolutely right, very poor recon on my part. The geography of the area makes it very difficult to recon the entrances to the Indian ocean. I had floatplanes operating on the islands off the coast of Sumatra until about a couple of weeks ago when FatR took them, and have been basing Catalinas on and off in the Cocos Islands until today. Unfortunately they only ever managed to spot the 2 light carriers. I suppose that I could have used picket xAKLs in the Indian Ocean but I don`t think that that is a historically realistic move.

Hi Canoerebel, unfortunately the situation has only got worse, I have now lost 8 fleet carriers plus a fistful of cruiser in exchange for 3 light carriers, I don't think I have ever seen such a disastrous defeat in this game.

Vicberg, that looks to be about the only option I have left, the Allied navy essentially ceased to exist with that last turn.

(in reply to yubari)
Post #: 196
RE: 25th June 1942 - 12/4/2010 12:37:17 PM   
krupp_88mm


Posts: 406
Joined: 10/13/2008
Status: offline 		only God can help you now


(in reply to yubari)
Post #: 197
RE: 25th June 1942 - 12/4/2010 11:22:48 PM   
vicberg

 

Posts: 1176
Joined: 4/19/2008
Status: offline 		Things look dark right now, but you'll get a carrier advantage again. The rest of 42 and part of 43 will be quiet in terms of naval.

However, you already have a land and air advantage that will only get better, so hit em where they ain't, and that means land attack. It will wipe out any naval advantage. It plays into your strengths (land, air) and maximizes his weaknesses (land). And because he has a lot committed to PH, it's questionable what he can defend with. He's already given you Rangoon in mid-42, which is a surprise because it's strategic importance. That should be a clue that he's somewhat stretched (I'm haven't been reading his AAR, so I have no idea), but that's a real surprise. So to protect your divs in the Andamans, you only have around 10-15 hexes from Rangoon that you need to take...if you can slip a few supply TFs into Rangoon (tricky because of the KB), that will alleviate the monsoon supply issues into Burma. Who knows, with good luck and lots o'planes you can get your divs into thailand or malaysia and put him back on the defensive again.


(in reply to krupp_88mm)
Post #: 198
RE: 25th June 1942 - 12/5/2010 8:01:22 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		Yubari,

At the time I wrote my comments (above), I already knew about the second day of the battle. So my comments apply to your current situation: You Can Come Back!

The Allies can recover from all but two events in AE. The only two things that are terminal for the Allies are (1) Japanese auto victory and (2) the Allied player giving up in 1942 or '43 after suffering defeat in a one-sided carrier battle.

Your situation will force you to be creative and patient, but it can be done. You just need a bit of time for the fog to clear and your morale to recover. Don't give up the ship!

(in reply to vicberg)
Post #: 199
RE: 25th June 1942 - 12/7/2010 11:54:50 AM   
yubari

 

Posts: 365
Joined: 3/24/2006
Status: offline 		In an act of utter cowardice, the Allied commander decides to surrender.

Here was the message from the last turn with FatR.

Well, I can't say I'm sorry for doing my best to win, but I can say, that I understand your pain. Certainly the last replays are not something that I'd enjoy to see happening to my forces. In roundabout ways (you'll see what situation I expected and what strange events transpired behind the scenes in my AAR after the game), luck presented me a near-perfect opportunity to engage, when I believed my plans to be most likely foiled. From now on, I won't ever complain, that chance doesn't favor me.

But while damage inflicted is immense and crippling, I have no doubt that Allies can recover and take their revenge later. It's not like I'm in the position to pull off more major conquests, particularly as my carrier aviation will need a couple of months to recover, Allies already seem to be getting an edge in quality in air war, and your play, as a whole, is strong. To be frank, I was getting a bit desperate, after recent failures, although in the end it worked in my favor, pushing me to take a greater risk than I would have been inclined to take normally. This victory will give the Empire significant breathing room, preventing the possibility of early collapse, and probably will allow to retake Andamans, but by no means it decides the game


And here is my surrender message.

Well I have spent a couple of days thinking about this but I have to say that the situation looks absolutely hopeless and so I think that I shall have to surrender.
As you will find out if you read my AAR, the reason for my disastrous defeat is that not only was the Enterprise out of action from the torpedo, the Hornet was with her providing escort, but also all of my bombers were set on 20 percent naval search and 50 percent ASW. As a result two carriers were not even at the battle, and of the other carriers, 70 percent of my bombers were not able to participate in the crucial allied morning attack. Had those bombers taken part then we would probably have seen a fairly even battle, or maybe a slight Japanese tactical victory, certainly any Japanese carrier taking three bombs would stand a good chance of sinking on the 40 or so hex return to Palembang or Singapore.

As we stand now I will not have carrier equality until about March 1944 and even then the Japanese planes will be better, the improved Zero A6M5 will be more than a match for the Hellcat I imagine. Of course I would be able to rely on my improving land based air but unfortunately in that last battle around 97 percent of my bombers didnt attack, and about 88 percent of my fighters decided not to fly CAP over my carriers. The land based air was essentially useless against the KB. In addition the allied ships were absolutely helpless, barely getting a single shot on target. I think that another 600 or so turns in which I am completely helpless is a waste of both of our time.

If we go back to the battle of Hawaii, I think that it was unfair of you to ask for me to stop the night attacks. While I agree that the number of planes destroyed on the ground did seem somewhat excessive, it was at a time of high moonlight, and I guess that the base was hugely overstacked on a level 1 airfield. I regret not continuing those attacks, particularly when it became clear that US flak was all but useless, it turned a battle that should have taken months into one that was over in a few days. Indeed more than likely I think that I would have ultimately won the battle.
Anyway, sorry for this cowardly decision. You deserve a better opponent than me and I can send my password if you want to continue.

You are probably right Canoerebel, the allies can certainly still win the war but I am afraid that I just do not think that I will enjoy it. If FatR wants to continue, and anyone should want to take over this complete catastrophe then PM me and I can send the allied password.

I still have a PBEM game as the Japanese going which is now in Mid December 1942 and so getting to 1945 in that will become my priority.

Oh, I nearly forgot, the final points.




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Post #: 200
RE: 25th June 1942 - 12/7/2010 12:07:59 PM   
Yakface


Posts: 846
Joined: 8/5/2006
Status: offline 		I don't think anyone could hold it against you Geoff.  If it was Scn 1 or 2 then you would still get carrier superiority back in mid-late 43.  Only getting parity in march 44 severely reduces anything you could do with the rest of the game.

Sorry to see it end, but it's probably the right move.

(in reply to yubari)
Post #: 201
RE: 25th June 1942 - 12/7/2010 7:59:03 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		Yubari, don't give up yet. Your morale is through the floor. Take a few days. Then work up enough determination to do at least another turn or two. If you do that, the clouds will begin to lift, you will sense the seed of a desire to see things through, and you will come back and win the game.

(in reply to Yakface)
Post #: 202
RE: 25th June 1942 - 12/9/2010 2:50:18 AM   
janh

 

Posts: 1216
Joined: 6/12/2007
Status: offline 		Well, too bad, this was really a very exciting AAR.  And I think despite the debacle near Ceylon, you really had managed to maneuver FatR into a very precarious situation.  I suppose for a good 1-1.5 game years you'd have had make up with skill and tricks until you'd have enough carriers back online to challenge KB.  But you already had evaporated a lot of his light carriers and surely would have come out front once the Hellcats, the Corsairs and the Thuds would have made their appearance. Already now FatR has been bleeding badly fighting your LBA on the Adamans, and risking KB there would be a quick loss of some CV.

I suppose both Pearl and the Adamans will not be an option for FatR to (re)take, and if you would have managed to sneak in some supply to the former, you could really have turned this game into an LBA nightmare for him.  I was too curious to see the outcome of it, but I would say you really managed to corner FatR up with your Adamans campaign.  I think you want to throw the towel to early, despite the losses.  Things don't look good from Nippon either, in fact I think worse by the day...!

< Message edited by janh -- 12/9/2010 2:51:41 AM >

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 203
RE: 25th June 1942 - 12/9/2010 3:09:33 AM   
bigred


Posts: 3599
Joined: 12/27/2007
Status: offline
quote:

Hornet reacts towards the enemy.
Halsey must be in command.

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Post #: 204
RE: 24th June 1942 - 12/9/2010 4:08:22 AM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Yubari, misery not only loves company, it needs it.

Bro, I've been just where you are and worse. Most other Allied players have too. It really, really stinks. It's demoralizing. It's horrifying.

Probably one in four Allied players toss in the towel at this point. Those who soldier on make a surprising discovery: the Allies can come back and defeat Japan. It's challenging and it will make you a better player...and man is it sweet!

So stick in there and do it!


Dan speaks good and wise words here. It would be good to at least think on it some. If you still want to throw in the towel, let someone else soldier on if they want.

Good thoughts and spirit to you Sir!


< Message edited by John 3rd -- 12/9/2010 4:14:17 AM >

_____________________________



Member: Treaty, Reluctant Admiral and Between the Storms Mod Team.

Reluctant Admiral Mod:
https://sites.google.com/site/reluctantadmiral/

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 205
RE: 24th June 1942 - 12/9/2010 9:26:17 AM   
yubari

 

Posts: 365
Joined: 3/24/2006
Status: offline 		Well the good news is that Bigred has sent me a PM saying that he wants to continue as the allies, good luck to him.

As soon as I sent the surrender notice I read the FatR AAR and it was very interesting, I never realised how desperate things were on his side. If I had kept up the night bombing attacks then I think that I would almost certainly have won that battle. At the very least I would have kept the KB around the Hawaiian Islands for another month or two which would have allowed me to perform my plan how I originally wanted to do it; namely a landing on West Sumatra in mid to late June followed a couple of weeks later by the landings in the Andamans. As I suspected it appears that the IJAAF in particular was seriously short of planes, something that I was trying to achieve since the start of the game.

Some words about the mod.

I think the first thing to say is that this mod is absolutely vicious. The three Japanese CVLs placed in a high speed task force at Palau can overwhelm anything that the Dutch or British can send at the start of the game, as evidenced in this game by the landings at Palembang on about turn 4. Two additional CVEs at Palau mean that practically nothing can escape from the Philippines if the Japanese player chooses to strangle them. I am not certain if that improves the playability of the game in the very early stages.

I have noticed that FatR complained a lot about the hugely increased Chinese troops in this mod. While certainly they were not a hindrance for the allies I am not certain how useful they are. After 6 months there is now mass starvation in Chinese units. Nearly all of my units in the field were short of supplies and a considerable number were completely out of supplies and starving. The only cities with any supplies at all were Chungking and another city nearby, Wuchow and Changsha. Certainly China would never have been able to perform any offensives due to supply.

Just the small increase in speed for the Zeroes and Oscars made a huge difference in the combat performance; none of the allied fighters, with the exception of the Hurricane, stood a chance against sweeping Japanese planes. I think that this speed increase has been taken out of the latest version.

The Japanese navy has been hugely boosted with the three Shokaku Kai carriers, even without the losses I suffered I would not have reached carrier equality until 1944. All in all I think that this makes the mod a considerably greater challenge than scenario 2 for the allied player.


Some words about the final battle.

Even nearly two weeks later, I cannot believe how stupid and complacent I was in assuming that the Japanese carriers were in Japan upgrading. I would like to have seen the result of the battle if I had not set all of my bombers on 50 percent ASW. The strategic plan was excellent, my operation of it imbecilic.

In many ways the crucial battle happened (or actually didnt happen) about a month earlier, at the end of May. I was one turn away from inflicting a similar ambush on FatR, when 5 US carriers appeared about 10 hexes away from the mini KB. Such a battle there would I think have been a similar massacre in reverse and would have left me with carrier superiority for the rest of the game. It also made me call off the Sumatra invasion, with the Japanese carriers known to be deep in the Pacific at the time, I should have proceeded with the invasion.

Anyway, time for me to disappear in shame and for bigred to take over the good fight.

(in reply to John 3rd)
Post #: 206
RE: 24th June 1942 - 12/10/2010 5:42:12 AM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		Yubari:

I would like more details on your Allied perspective on the Mod.

Thoughts/Questions:
1. With the recently released 2E Version we brought the Zero back into historical speeds (don't really know how its speed got increased since FatR, Juan, and myself don't remember touching it). That change would not have impacted your game since it was so far along.

2. The forward deployment of the Imperial Fleet does make life much more difficult (if not impossible). No doubt about that. Do you think starting the CVLs in Cam Rahn Bay or even Nagasaki without the speed bonus would help? They would still get into it but a few days AFTER hostilities began.

3. The only changes applied to the Imperial Fleet and Air Arm. Did you feel like the army was any different? I mean to ask did the changes to the Fleet make the Army SEEM more powerful?

4. Did the addition of the Allied Convoys at the start of the game in Pago Pago and moving towards Port Moresby make any difference or change anything from your perspective? Have strongly thought about adding a few more warships to the Pago Pago TF and add the Lexington TF covering the Operation.

5. Did you consider conversion of the AOs to CVEs allowed for in this Mod?

My experiences with Lew haven't been quite as marked as yours but I have seen some of the above points.

I am always looking for ways to make the Mod fun for BOTH sides. Any helpful suggestions would be well-received. Thanks for the AAR and your commentary.

Have been making notes about an eventual 3.0 Version where the expansion remains but the Fleet pilot's experience is DROPPED about 10-15% to reflect a last minute attempt to expand the Imperial Air Arm. There are more planes and they are more modern, however, less pilot starting experience might really serve to balance that some.

John




< Message edited by John 3rd -- 12/10/2010 5:44:22 AM >

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(in reply to yubari)
Post #: 207
RE: 24th June 1942 - 12/10/2010 2:47:21 PM   
FatR

 

Posts: 2522
Joined: 10/23/2009
From: St.Petersburg, Russia
Status: offline 		Now that I can look here...

First overall comments.

The Allied counterattack plan was strong, unexpected and put me in very precarious situation. Even though I tried to avoid the ghost of RL Solomons campaign, the development of events eventually resembled Solomons squared. I also was, as Yubari correctly noted, quite close to sending a reduced Mini-KB to its death in Andamans. I guess my cauitiousness kicked right in time. I also must admit that I suffered from unfortunate target fixation on Hawaii, and failed to give proper attention to finishing things in DEI/Burma. I also failed to give a proper consideration to Allied options, instead allowing my own preferences to color my strategic calculations.

Unfortunately for Allies, in parallel to RL Battle of Midway, making assumptions about enemy's behavior and splitting the forces, plus a stroke of luck (mainly before the battle, in torpedoing Enterprise), allowed me to make a comeback. Such is the reality of naval war, than even the strong strategy can sometimes be undone by a tactical blunder. I already told my thoughs on Allied situation after the battle, and they are even reposted here, so I won't repeat them.

As about China, it's news to me that Allied supply situation already was crippling. In a few last battles in June, Chinese troops seemed to perform decently. So, I was still rather worried about the theatre.


Now about the mod.

quote:

ORIGINAL: yubari
I think the first thing to say is that this mod is absolutely vicious. The three Japanese CVLs placed in a high speed task force at Palau can overwhelm anything that the Dutch or British can send at the start of the game, as evidenced in this game by the landings at Palembang on about turn 4. Two additional CVEs at Palau mean that practically nothing can escape from the Philippines if the Japanese player chooses to strangle them. I am not certain if that improves the playability of the game in the very early stages.

I thought so too. Now, I'm not so sure. At least in scen 2, and probably in scen 1, you can land in Palemang within 10 days of the start of the game. I know that in my new game against Itdepends (Scen 2) I was there with over 300 AV on December 17th. I expected a heavy surface battle, but with four battleships and four heavy cruisers, never mind a bunch of smaller ships, was almost sure to win. And was willing to lose some majorwarships for this prize. But Force Z attacked (and died) in Eastern DEI instead.


quote:

ORIGINAL: yubari
The Japanese navy has been hugely boosted with the three Shokaku Kai carriers, even without the losses I suffered I would not have reached carrier equality until 1944. All in all I think that this makes the mod a considerably greater challenge than scenario 2 for the allied player.

Again, now that I've seen in scenario 2... not believing this. The 10-EXP/skill boost across most of the starting airforce might be worth one extra carrier (Shinano is a Taiho-class CV in Scen 2, so Scen 70 gives Japan only one extra flight deck) by itself.

I'll post a few more comments later, if I have the time.

< Message edited by FatR -- 12/10/2010 3:05:18 PM >

(in reply to yubari)
Post #: 208
RE: 24th June 1942 - 12/10/2010 3:17:24 PM   
FatR

 

Posts: 2522
Joined: 10/23/2009
From: St.Petersburg, Russia
Status: offline 		A note on KB deployment, that wasn't stated in my own AAR: I always tried to give my carriers a few days at base before every new mission. This, and strongly avoiding full speed was enough to keep sys damage down, except at the very beginning of the war, when Kaga briefly accumulated enough to drop in speed. Directly before deploying to Andamans, the main KB was resting at Kwajalein, fully repaired and rearmed - I stopped believing in a serious attempt to save Hawaii by that point, but couldn't discount the possibility of this option getting back on the table if the main Japanese carrier force is obviously committed elsewhere. So it sailed immediately after USN carriers appeared. Mini-KB, meanwhile, had time to rest and repair in Soerabaja, while the main KB was making its way to Indian Ocean (with a stop for refuel and a day of repairs at Kendari).

(in reply to Itdepends)
Post #: 209
RE: 24th June 1942 - 12/10/2010 3:20:31 PM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		I concur on the Fleet front. For the three Sho-Kai the Japanese player loses Taiho. Shinano is nowhere around but that is no big loss for Japan. The net gain for the Japanese is two large flightdecks in Scen 70 AND that they come in in 1943--not 1944 when little can be done.


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(in reply to FatR)
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