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RE: DaBigBabes Beta errata

 
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RE: DaBigBabes Beta errata - 7/10/2010 12:19:10 AM   
rockmedic109

 

Posts: 2390
Joined: 5/17/2005
From: Citrus Heights, CA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JWE


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kereguelen
Should be Scenario 2 only units. They should not be in use if using Scenario 1 as basis for a mod. Otherwise there could be a problem with the AI in Scen 1.. Which scenario was used as basis for the Babes mod? 1 or 2?

Well howdy, Mr. K.

That's just what I thought ! BabesLite has all those units 9999'd out (uses Scen01 as a basis). DaBig Babes has them deleted altogether and replaced with other units.

We don't provide AI files with any of the Babes scenarios. Instead, we ask people to copy and renumber the aeixxxx-001 - 012 files from stock Scen 01 or Quiet China 07 (for use with Babes scen 026 or 028) or copy and renumber the aeixxxx-001 - 012 files from stock Scen 06 or Quiet China 09 (for use with Babes scen 027 or 029 - Dec.8 start). Using the AI files from Scen 02 or QC Scen 08 would certainly cause an issue.

I'm checking with Andy, because he may just have put in a "conditional if", i.e., if units are 9999 then go to next script. If he did it that way, then the AI would pick up the 'active' units we stuck in those slots in DaBigBabes. As I mentioned, I'm checking with Andy and we'll get it cleared up, one way or the other. In the meantime, I guess it would be good to matrix it out.

BabesLite Scen026 - use AI files for stock Scen01 or Scen07 ONLY.
BabesLite Scen027 - use AI files for stock Scen06 or Scen09 ONLY.
DaBigBabes Scen028 - use AI files for stock Scen01 or Scen07 ONLY.
DaBigBabes Scen029 - use AI files for stock Scen06 or Scen09 ONLY.

If the problem then reoccurs, the issue would be interior to the AI files themselves.

Woof! J

OOOPS.

Now I can't remember if I put the 12-7 or 12-8 AI files in. I kinda think I put the 12-8 files {am playing 12-7}. Seems to work for the first week, though. I guess I need to do another restart........I need a new new sig pic.......for playing Restart in the Pacific or just being the Restart Fanboy.

(in reply to JWE)
Post #: 61
RE: DaBigBabes Beta errata - 7/10/2010 12:28:03 AM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		There is only one set of AI files for Scen 1, 2 6 and 10 they all use the same ones.

Its bad enough maintaining 16 variants each of 1000+ scripts once never mind 4 times !!!

If a script has no units available i.e. because they are only available in Scen 1 then the script fails

So the units for the fictional Scen 2 Army are used in all scripts in all scenarios BUT because they are 9999's out in Scen 1 those specific AI scripts fail in that scenario i.e. the AI skips them

(in reply to JWE)
Post #: 62
RE: DaBigBabes Beta errata - 7/10/2010 12:34:20 AM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		Just so we are clear I have 17 AI variants currently maintained

Of those 0 - 6 are broadly historical (albeit even in Scen 2 they use the extra units to add more weight to existing attacks)
7 - 16 have additional extra attacks.

What changes between Scen 1 2 etc is the mix of how many historical v a historical scripts are included int he mix.,

e.g. if I had done an AI invade PH script a really aggressive attack PH script wouldnt even be attempted in Scen 1 becauser the AI cannot afford to lose the assets whereas in Scen 2 I may have slipped it into the rotation !!!
quote:

ORIGINAL: rockmedic109

quote:

ORIGINAL: JWE


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kereguelen
Should be Scenario 2 only units. They should not be in use if using Scenario 1 as basis for a mod. Otherwise there could be a problem with the AI in Scen 1.. Which scenario was used as basis for the Babes mod? 1 or 2?

Well howdy, Mr. K.

That's just what I thought ! BabesLite has all those units 9999'd out (uses Scen01 as a basis). DaBig Babes has them deleted altogether and replaced with other units.

We don't provide AI files with any of the Babes scenarios. Instead, we ask people to copy and renumber the aeixxxx-001 - 012 files from stock Scen 01 or Quiet China 07 (for use with Babes scen 026 or 028) or copy and renumber the aeixxxx-001 - 012 files from stock Scen 06 or Quiet China 09 (for use with Babes scen 027 or 029 - Dec.8 start). Using the AI files from Scen 02 or QC Scen 08 would certainly cause an issue.

I'm checking with Andy, because he may just have put in a "conditional if", i.e., if units are 9999 then go to next script. If he did it that way, then the AI would pick up the 'active' units we stuck in those slots in DaBigBabes. As I mentioned, I'm checking with Andy and we'll get it cleared up, one way or the other. In the meantime, I guess it would be good to matrix it out.

BabesLite Scen026 - use AI files for stock Scen01 or Scen07 ONLY.
BabesLite Scen027 - use AI files for stock Scen06 or Scen09 ONLY.
DaBigBabes Scen028 - use AI files for stock Scen01 or Scen07 ONLY.
DaBigBabes Scen029 - use AI files for stock Scen06 or Scen09 ONLY.

If the problem then reoccurs, the issue would be interior to the AI files themselves.

Woof! J

OOOPS.

Now I can't remember if I put the 12-7 or 12-8 AI files in. I kinda think I put the 12-8 files {am playing 12-7}. Seems to work for the first week, though. I guess I need to do another restart........I need a new new sig pic.......for playing Restart in the Pacific or just being the Restart Fanboy.


(in reply to rockmedic109)
Post #: 63
RE: DaBigBabes Beta errata - 7/10/2010 12:46:08 AM   
rockmedic109

 

Posts: 2390
Joined: 5/17/2005
From: Citrus Heights, CA
Status: offline 		OK.  Great.  It should work.  I still think I can find a way to muck up the works.  But I will enjoy myself till then!

Thanks for the quick replay.

Steve

(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 64
RE: DaBigBabes Beta errata - 7/10/2010 4:01:00 PM   
JWE

 

Posts: 6580
Joined: 7/19/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac
If a script has no units available i.e. because they are only available in Scen 1 then the script fails

So the units for the fictional Scen 2 Army are used in all scripts in all scenarios BUT because they are 9999's out in Scen 1 those specific AI scripts fail in that scenario i.e. the AI skips them

Ahhh .. so it is a conditional if. Perhaps there's a way around this by substituting equivalent historical units without an AI attribute for the fictional Scen 2 army and moving AF Coys and Shipping Engs into those opened slots. We'll look at it and see what can be done. Aaarrrgghhh

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Post #: 65
RE: DaBigBabes Beta errata - 7/10/2010 4:01:09 PM   
Sardaukar


Posts: 9847
Joined: 11/28/2001
From: Finland/Israel
Status: offline 		If I decucted this right, we should be very careful when replacing units in scenario marked 9999 delay, since they may (or will) be used by some of the AI scripts.

Anyways, I am now in May 22 1942 in DaBigBabes vs. IJ AI and I haven't noticed any further glitches like this. Doesn't mean there hasn't been, I just haven't noticed any!

Overall, IJ AI seems to work very well.

_____________________________

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(in reply to rockmedic109)
Post #: 66
RE: DaBigBabes Beta errata - 7/10/2010 4:06:58 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		Sorry John yup its not easy....

p.s. I sent you the details of the AI debugger I use in case you get specific saves you need to chedck

(in reply to Sardaukar)
Post #: 67
RE: DaBigBabes Beta errata - 7/10/2010 4:53:54 PM   
Cathartes

 

Posts: 2155
Joined: 1/5/2001
Status: offline 		John- sent you an email with some info.

(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 68
RE: DaBigBabes Beta errata - 7/10/2010 5:01:52 PM   
JWE

 

Posts: 6580
Joined: 7/19/2005
Status: offline 		Ok .. think we can fix this. Doesn't seem to be a real nasty in any case, but what the hey .. want it to be as smooth as possible.

There's enough open slots here and there to redistribute the Shipping Engs into. Then move the AF Coys around the same way, leaving 4933 to 4955 open. Ugly but functional. et voila.

If we wanted to get fancy, we could paste some of the historical but non-AI attributed later arriving B and C divisions and regiments over corresponding fictional division and regiment types in the slot range. That should give a more flexible file presentation to the scripts without adding too much ahistoricity (is that a word?). The AI might pick them up earlier than their actual arrival date and may have to teleport them from Tokyo, but I can live with that a bit better than having 4 fictional Guard divisions and 11 fictional regiments running around, or having the AI assault San Francisco with two airfield companys and a stevedore battalion (although the sushi around Geary and Webster is pretty darn good - maybe they just want to be interned). I just hate like heck to 25 open slots just sitting there.

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Post #: 69
RE: DaBigBabes Beta errata - 7/10/2010 5:35:44 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		The militia regts wont do anything those slots are safe to use no script has them in use.

Most of the AI scripts using units in those slots end (other than counterattacks) by about Mar 43 so just put late war forces in the slots

(in reply to JWE)
Post #: 70
RE: DaBigBabes Beta errata - 7/10/2010 7:09:49 PM   
JWE

 

Posts: 6580
Joined: 7/19/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac
The militia regts wont do anything those slots are safe to use no script has them in use.

Most of the AI scripts using units in those slots end (other than counterattacks) by about Mar 43 so just put late war forces in the slots

Brilliant Andy. Will do. Thank you muchly.

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Post #: 71
RE: DaBigBabes Beta errata - 7/11/2010 11:48:31 PM   
rockmedic109

 

Posts: 2390
Joined: 5/17/2005
From: Citrus Heights, CA
Status: offline 		I've think this is in vanilla as well.  Is SC CHa-8 and SC CHa-20 supposed to have the "H" capitalized? 

Great job!  Having a blast getting blasted once again. 

With as often as I play and replay the first six months, EMT {my job} must stand for Extraordinary Masochistic Tendencies.

(in reply to JWE)
Post #: 72
RE: DaBigBabes Beta errata - 7/12/2010 11:57:33 PM   
Weidi72


Posts: 61
Joined: 6/10/2006
Status: offline 		P400 is a float fighter.

(in reply to rockmedic109)
Post #: 73
RE: DaBigBabes Beta errata - 7/13/2010 6:57:22 AM   
Cathartes

 

Posts: 2155
Joined: 1/5/2001
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Weidi72

P400 is a float fighter.



"Float Capable" carried over from stock. I'm wagering it will be fixed in next version.

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Post #: 74
RE: DaBigBabes Beta errata - 7/13/2010 8:16:10 AM   
rockmedic109

 

Posts: 2390
Joined: 5/17/2005
From: Citrus Heights, CA
Status: offline 		Considering the sheer volume of data that had to be entered into this game it are utterly amazing that there is so few errors.  I wish I could maintain such a low error percentage in life {or just this game}.

I even had to come back an edit a error after posting this......

(in reply to Cathartes)
Post #: 75
RE: DaBigBabes Beta errata - 7/13/2010 3:37:30 PM   
JWE

 

Posts: 6580
Joined: 7/19/2005
Status: offline 		Cathartes wins the wager.

I've seen the subchasers done every which way; CH, Ch, CHA, CHa, Cha (ole), and even different ways in the same source. Hiroshi Nishida uses CH and CHa and so does Bob Hackett, so ...

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Post #: 76
RE: DaBigBabes Beta errata - 7/14/2010 8:24:18 AM   
Weidi72


Posts: 61
Joined: 6/10/2006
Status: offline 		there are two 70th brit. inf divisions.

unit 6496, complete (full strength)

units 6718, 6719, 6720, 6745, brigades/recon
+unit 6449 (art reg)

(in reply to JWE)
Post #: 77
RE: DaBigBabes Beta errata - 7/14/2010 2:30:37 PM   
oldman45


Posts: 2320
Joined: 5/1/2005
From: Jacksonville Fl
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Weidi72

there are two 70th brit. inf divisions.

unit 6496, complete (full strength)

units 6718, 6719, 6720, 6745, brigades/recon
+unit 6449 (art reg)



I looked up the brigades in the data base and they don't list the 70th division as their parent. Are you sure they are the 70th? I do seem to remember the 70th just had support units assigned when AE came out. I don't recall why it was in the game but there was a thread about it some time ago.

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Post #: 78
RE: DaBigBabes Beta errata - 7/14/2010 3:29:56 PM   
Weidi72


Posts: 61
Joined: 6/10/2006
Status: offline 		In AE there are only support units, right, but 14th, 16th and 23rd Inf Brigades, 45th Recon and 8th FA are part of 70th Division.

"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/70th_Infantry_Division_%28United_Kingdom%29"



< Message edited by Weidi72 -- 7/14/2010 3:40:54 PM >

(in reply to oldman45)
Post #: 79
RE: DaBigBabes Beta errata - 7/14/2010 3:57:25 PM   
JWE

 

Posts: 6580
Joined: 7/19/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: oldman45
I don't recall why it was in the game but there was a thread about it some time ago.

It was something about the brigades converting to Chindits so they are not supposed to recombine, or some such. I have no idea why many things are the way they are in the OOB either. But iirc, 70th Div is supposed to withdraw right before the brigades turn into Chindits, so it makes seems to make sense to let the 70th Div arrive normally, hang around as a division, and withdraw 430601. Then, move the delay on those component brigades up, so they don't appear till after 70th division goes away (430701 for example) and then have them do their rename to Chindits thing on 431001. That makes more sense to me than having a strange 70 div organization hanging around for a year.

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Post #: 80
RE: DaBigBabes Beta errata - 7/14/2010 5:27:56 PM   
JWE

 

Posts: 6580
Joined: 7/19/2005
Status: offline 		Ok, so …

8th Field Rgt: after break-up of 70th Div, assigned to 25th Indian Div in ’43 as a Jungle Field Rgt.
51st Field Rgt: after break-up of 70th Div, assigned (as infantry) to 16 Brigade – 3rd Special Force Div in ’43, becoming 51 Column, 16 LRP Brigade on 10/43.
60th Field Rgt: after break-up of 70th Div, assigned (as infantry) to 23 Brigade – 3rd Special Force Div in ’43, becoming 60 and 68 Columns, 23 LRP Brigade on 10/43.
45th Recce Rgt: after break-up of 70th Div, assigned (as infantry) to 16 Brigade – 3rd Special Force Div in ’43, becoming 45 and 54 Columns, 16 LRP Brigade on 10/43.

Prior to the creation of Wingate’s private army, 70th Div was a cohesive, experienced unit, so why not keep it that way till the break-up date. The TO&E of the LRP units (columns) was considerably different from a nominal infantry Regt (Bn), so it makes little sense to have three regular Brit brigades just change their name to Chindits.

Chindits didn’t have any of the cool “stuff” that a regular division had, so … ok, let 70th withdraw, dump all its “stuff” into the pool, and a month later … hey, presto – 3 LRP brigades with the right stuff.

Yea, nay, maybe ??


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Post #: 81
RE: DaBigBabes Beta errata - 7/14/2010 5:42:58 PM   
witpqs


Posts: 26087
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline 		Sounds good from here...

(in reply to JWE)
Post #: 82
RE: DaBigBabes Beta errata - 7/14/2010 5:55:00 PM   
Weidi72


Posts: 61
Joined: 6/10/2006
Status: offline 		If the separate units will get a delay, so they won't come as reinforcement, why not.

(in reply to witpqs)
Post #: 83
RE: DaBigBabes Beta errata - 7/14/2010 7:00:51 PM   
JWE

 

Posts: 6580
Joined: 7/19/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Weidi72
If the separate units will get a delay, so they won't come as reinforcement, why not.

Why not, indeed. So we'll keep 70th Div as a Div and let it fight as a Div till its withdrawal date. We'll kill 45th Recce as a separate unit because it became part of 16 LRP. We'll also kill 8th Field Rgt as a separate unit because God spoke from the high place (actually, Nigel Evans spoke in more mundane terms) and said they kept short 25#'s and went to 25th Div. And after 70th Div gets broken up (and is removed from the game), the remaining constuitent units appear as 14, 16, 23 LRP brigades with their particular TO&E.

Gosh, how many more of these things are there? Please ... I don't really want to know.

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Post #: 84
RE: DaBigBabes Beta errata - 7/14/2010 8:24:57 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		The main reason we did it the way we did it in stock was to avoid having a full Brit Div set of devices dumped into the pools

(in reply to JWE)
Post #: 85
RE: DaBigBabes Beta errata - 7/14/2010 8:25:24 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		Other one to watch is 3rd NZ Div HQ thats also a weird one from stoick

(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 86
RE: DaBigBabes Beta errata - 7/15/2010 4:26:54 AM   
oldman45


Posts: 2320
Joined: 5/1/2005
From: Jacksonville Fl
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

The main reason we did it the way we did it in stock was to avoid having a full Brit Div set of devices dumped into the pools


Would it really effect things considering the combat losses it would incur? I remember what you wrote about the finite replacements and if the 70th is in heavy combat it could be a problem down the road. Am I out to lunch with that theory?

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Post #: 87
RE: DaBigBabes Beta errata - 7/16/2010 5:52:03 PM   
JWE

 

Posts: 6580
Joined: 7/19/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac
Other one to watch is 3rd NZ Div HQ thats also a weird one from stoick

Ok. Got rid of 3rd NZ Div (yeah, that was weird). To give Barrowclough something to do, added North, Central, South Mil Districts as static Corps HQs (just in case Japanese player gets frisky).

Tightened up a few more things. Moved stuff to keep the 4932 – 4946 slots empty. Couldn’t find enough of the right kind of stuff without an AI attribution to move there, so went for “ugly but no problem” as opposed to “fancy but maybe not”.

Waiting on a couple things from the Air people, and a final update should be out in a couple days. There should have no impact on any ongoing games; just tweaks, and twonks, and dinks here and there for smoothness and simplicity.

Have lots of input that suggests everything is working as expected, so this last cleanup should be the end of the Project, insofar as a release version. Boy, oh boy, what a journey – woof !!


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Post #: 88
RE: DaBigBabes Beta errata - 7/16/2010 6:37:02 PM   
Alfred

 

Posts: 6685
Joined: 9/28/2006
Status: offline 		JWE,

I have always been fascinated as to how scenario slot numbers are allocated to mods. Who (obviously before the scenario number was publicly announced) determined the scenario number for DaBabes? How did you prevent any other modder from using the same numbers?

Alfred

(in reply to JWE)
Post #: 89
RE: DaBigBabes Beta errata - 7/16/2010 7:27:32 PM   
JWE

 

Posts: 6580
Joined: 7/19/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred
JWE,

I have always been fascinated as to how scenario slot numbers are allocated to mods. Who (obviously before the scenario number was publicly announced) determined the scenario number for DaBabes? How did you prevent any other modder from using the same numbers?

Alfred

They really aren't allocated, they are grabbed. The engine allocates scen slots 001 to 025 as 'official', non-editable, slots and this is reflected in the editor (there is a CRC check sum in the engine to make sure). Being developers, we got lucky and got on the pony early. Our peers respect out slot selection, and we respect theirs. But anybody who wants to can do whatever they want between 026 and whatever.

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Post #: 90
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