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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> After Action Reports >> RE: One Weird Battle

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RE: One Weird Battle - 1/17/2011 3:26:00 PM

Canoerebel

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That's a good question - whether Brad is giving the game the attention it needs and deserves. He has seemed more engaged the past three days, but I'm not getting my hopes up yet. Perhaps he'll respond to the challenge of fending off the Allies, but there's an equal or greater chance that he's sucked too far into WitE to look back.

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RE: One Weird Battle - 1/17/2011 4:19:32 PM

witpqs

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It seems a common malady now.

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RE: One Weird Battle - 1/17/2011 4:48:29 PM

JohnDillworth

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I know Brad did not initially want to do this, but perhaps you might suggest 2 day turns?

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RE: One Weird Battle - 1/17/2011 5:08:52 PM

Bullwinkle58

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

I know Brad did not initially want to do this, but perhaps you might suggest 2 day turns?

I don't think PBEM games can be changed mid-game the way AI games can.

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RE: One Weird Battle - 1/17/2011 5:10:05 PM

Canoerebel

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You can't change turn cycles during the game, so one-day turns it is. (For the record, I like both one-day and two-day turns, though I have a slight preference for one-day).

While there is no present indication that Brad will quit, I have been mulling over my options if he does so. I love the idea of WitP:AE and I would play perpetually if that's all I had to do in life. But I am beginning to think that the game is too much of a good thing - that it's too involved, too clicky, too micromanaging, and as a result too time consuming.

If I were to decline AE campaign games in the future, what other options are there? AE scenarios would be one possibility. And are there any other really, really good strategic level Pacific war games out there?

As much as I have loved UV, WitP, and AE, I think that the best strategic war level games ever were pure old Avalon Hill board games - Advanced Third Reich and Empire of the Rising Sun (note - you could play these games via email, but it was more akin to playing by snail mail than playing a computer game). Those games were challenging but moved pretty quickly.

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RE: One Weird Battle - 1/17/2011 5:12:30 PM

Bullwinkle58

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Just stuck my head into the WitE forum, and Q is online there. Chance of AE turns today? Hmm . . .

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RE: One Weird Battle - 1/17/2011 5:15:51 PM

Canoerebel

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Nah. He's just begun an WITE PBEM match. That's where his heart is now. He'll probably send an AE turn late tonight.

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RE: One Weird Battle - 1/17/2011 5:18:41 PM

John 3rd

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

You can't change turn cycles during the game, so one-day turns it is. (For the record, I like both one-day and two-day turns, though I have a slight preference for one-day).

While there is no present indication that Brad will quit, I have been mulling over my options if he does so. I love the idea of WitP:AE and I would play perpetually if that's all I had to do in life. But I am beginning to think that the game is too much of a good thing - that it's too involved, too clicky, too micromanaging, and as a result too time consuming.

If I were to decline AE campaign games in the future, what other options are there? AE scenarios would be one possibility. And are there any other really, really good strategic level Pacific war games out there?

As much as I have loved UV, WitP, and AE, I think that the best strategic war level games ever were pure old Avalon Hill board games - Advanced Third Reich and Empire of the Rising Sun (note - you could play these games via email, but it was more akin to playing by snail mail than playing a computer game). Those games were challenging but moved pretty quickly.

Hey Dan. Of course, I am still reading your AAR!

Remember how you felt at times during and at the end of our WitP Campaign? I still remember your Thread about abstinence and chuckle when I think about it. How long did that last?

You've had one heck of a good run here against a capable and solid opponent. However it plays out your work on the AAR has been magnificent and insightful...

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RE: One Weird Battle - 1/17/2011 5:19:55 PM

Bullwinkle58

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From a distance, it seems that AE is part of your daily rhythm, as reading the forum is for me. I think you'd miss it. OTOH, it is a lot of time that could be spent exercising, reading, making money, blogging (spit), or contemplating death.

Just a sugg, but you might want to take a month off from PBEM if this one goes south, and play the AI in the Downfall scenario. You've never really gotten to push the really late-war toys around. Playing the AI lets you set your own schedule. If you want to play ten turns in a row you can.

Then, if you miss December 1941, maybe go look for another game and be very careful to see if your opponent is into any other PBEM games already. Maybe play John 3rd again? You guys seemed to have a lot of fun, be on the same wavelength, and be close to each other in ability.

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RE: One Weird Battle - 1/17/2011 5:20:38 PM

Canoerebel

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Of course! My Vow of [WitP] Cellibacy lasted from April 2009 to about September 2009. I am honored that you remember...and thank you for the comments.

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RE: One Weird Battle - 1/17/2011 5:21:35 PM

John 3rd

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That is REALLY weird that ole Bullwinkle just posted this right after my comment...

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RE: One Weird Battle - 1/17/2011 5:22:47 PM

Bullwinkle58

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quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

That is REALLY weird that ole Bullwinkle just posted this right after my comment...

Yeah, and I hadn't read yours either. Hooves don't type so fast.

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RE: One Weird Battle - 1/17/2011 5:26:29 PM

Bullwinkle58

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Adding to my comment about playing the AI so you can control your schedule, this weekend, through 4 NFL playoff games, I played over five weeks of turns in my AI game. Not all gems, but playing so consistently, straight through, let me really get on top of what I was doing and planning. One of the hardest things for me is to come back after 3-4 days away and pick up on what I was planning to do. I don't keep notes or anything like that.

To give the AI a break, sometimes I'll just hit "End Turn" as soon as the save loads. The moves remind me what was in motion when I left off, even though it wastes a game day.

Anyway, I think playing a bit of AI and gettting back in control of your time might freshen things up for you.

< Message edited by Bullwinkle58 -- 1/17/2011 5:28:11 PM >

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RE: One Weird Battle - 1/17/2011 5:47:24 PM

witpqs

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quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

You've had one heck of a good run here against a capable and solid opponent. However it plays out your work on the AAR has been magnificent and insightful...

I've gotta say, John - they're only in October '42!

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RE: One Weird Battle - 1/17/2011 8:27:54 PM

Cribtop

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Another option is a team play game to reduce your responsibilities. I've been thinking about this option myself as I don't quite have time for two PBEMs but do seem to have time for more than one, if that makes any sense.

I would LOVE it if some enterprising modder would create a scenario beginning on May 1, 1942. This would allow players to skip the sometimes tedious expansion phase and start at the meat of the game.

While I'm dreaming, I've always wanted a setup option for the first turn a la Avalon Hill board games. Subject to certain restrictions, of course.

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RE: One Weird Battle - 1/17/2011 10:49:07 PM

vettim89

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cribtop

Another option is a team play game to reduce your responsibilities. I've been thinking about this option myself as I don't quite have time for two PBEMs but do seem to have time for more than one, if that makes any sense.

I would LOVE it if some enterprising modder would create a scenario beginning on May 1, 1942. This would allow players to skip the sometimes tedious expansion phase and start at the meat of the game.

While I'm dreaming, I've always wanted a setup option for the first turn a la Avalon Hill board games. Subject to certain restrictions, of course.

At present my only PBEM game is a DaBigBabes 2x2. Thoroughly enjoying it. ONly wished I had stuck to my guns when we started for two-day turns. I think that is a must in a team setting

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RE: One Weird Battle - 1/18/2011 2:40:38 PM

Canoerebel

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10/23/42

West India: Allied armor (1000 AV) advanced one hex SE of Bombay, catching up to the IJA stack that just retreated from Bombay. I'll bombard tomorrow while awaiting arrival of the infantry and artillery, which should make it in time to allow an all-out assault the day after tomorrow. The IJ airforce has disappeared from the Poona and Goa bases, leaving control of the air uncontested at the moment. Allied bombers are targeting the various IJA stacks in and near Poona.

North-Central India: To the northeast, Allied troops reclaimed Nagpur and are moving via strategic mode to Raipur, which was never taken by the Japanese. Brad isn't really contesting this vector, because there aren't any good roads out - it's all rail and yellow trail. I'll advance along several routes, but it won't be any blitzkrieg unless I can take an undefended base by para assault and then move by strategic mode.

Allied Troops in India: Have begun prepping for a variety of targets, ranging from Diego Garcia and Addu Atoll to the Nicobars and the island chain just off Sumatra's south coast. I don't know how much lift capacity I'll have available when the Allies invade Sumatra, but I hope to be able to also pick up some of the nearby islands. At least one remains an Allied dot hex. If that continues, I may even move in some engineers via sub to start working on an airfield (but that would be time so that it would go to level one coinciding with the Allied invasion).

Base Count: The recent captures of Norfolk Island and Nagpur dropped the IJ base count to 523 and raised the Allies to 331. So, unless something goes wrong in the near future, the IJ high water mark was 525 and the Allied low tide was 329. The Allies should pick up another base in India tomorrow, and then more will fall over the coming weeks.

< Message edited by Canoerebel -- 1/18/2011 2:54:48 PM >

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RE: One Weird Battle - 1/18/2011 6:49:35 PM

Altaris

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As a long-time fan of both your AAR's (your first helped me in learning the ropes quite a bit), I'm sad to hear you're considering calling it quits. OTOH, I reached exactly the same point as what you're talking about around 9 months ago... the game is just a bit toooo involved, clicky, and micromanagement hell. I reached that point once I realized that even putting up a breakneck turnaround speed was only going to make things move along at a moderate pace, there was no such thing as making quick headway in this game.

I'm currently playing WitE, and I have to say it's a fantastic game. It has all the aspects of WitP that I liked, and none of the problems. And with 1-week turns, games don't bog down into years-long RL commitment to get to the meaty parts.

Only downside, IMO, is the lack of the very good naval game in WitP, which of course is non-existent on the Eastern Front. But I'm finding WitE scratches that grog wargaming itch just right, without become an excessive burden. If you have any interest in that aspect of WW2, I seriously recommend the game, I think you might find it quite enjoyable.

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RE: One Weird Battle - 1/18/2011 7:01:59 PM

Canoerebel

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Thanks, Altaris, for the comments.

I hate to see any erosion of support in AE, but I can understand it given the time required.

Is there an alternative, folks? Is there a really, really good strategic level Pacific war game out there? By really good I mean an excellent game that moves along much more quickly?

P.S. Please, please, please, Matrix, acquire the rights to Advanced Third Reich and Empire of the Rising Sun!

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RE: One Weird Battle - 1/18/2011 10:20:25 PM

crsutton

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I have two campaigns going. One involved about 10 turns a week and it just gobbles up my time. Perhaps too much time but I do love it. I find that I can sometimes spend a couple of hours dwelling on a turn. I suppose if I had any organizational skills I could get it to under an hour but that is just not how my mind works.

As you know, I find the biggest problems and time waster to be pilot training. I know that we all wanted detail and more stuff but I would like to see a future patch devoted soley to streamlining the game a bit. The first thing I would do is get rid of pilot training-or at the least make it optional. I know JFBs love it as it allows them to create a historical fantasy of an airforce but I think it hurts the game. Get rid of it and just let the game produce pilots on a historical level for both sides. Give the Japanese player the option of improving his pilots for some sort of cost but "keep it real mon".

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RE: One Weird Battle - 1/18/2011 10:44:49 PM

PresterJohn001

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Empire of The Sun (GMT board game) is available as a Vassal and Cyberboard module.

Takes a little more effort to play pbem but once you get the rythm no more time than a computer wargame. Vassal also allows real time play if you can be online same time as your opponent. Use of a dice rolling server such as ACTS keeps everything visibly honest (most important when you get a really good streak of luck).

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RE: One Weird Battle - 1/19/2011 3:21:17 PM

Canoerebel

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10/24/42

Poona: The retreating IJA stack made it to Poona before the Allies could attack - I'm surprised that they were able to move so quickly since Allied bombers have been hitting them daily, which usually slows movement to a crawl. The Allied stack will arrive at Poona in two days. Japan may have to make a stand there, as there are two or three IJA divisions on secondary roads that are facing isolation if the Allies advance too rapidly.

East India: The Allies reclaimed a second base (Jabblepure, north of Nagpur) today. Tomorrow, Chindits will para-assault what appears to be a vacant base closer to the east coast.

The Rout is On: While Japan has a very strong army in India, Brad has to worry about isolation. He's also unsure the strength of the various advancing Allied elements. Thus, the rout is on at the moment, with Japan in full retreat. Japan can make stands at strongpoints like Madras, Bangalore, Calcutta, and other points, though only if Brad keeps a strong airforce present in India. By the end of 1942, I would expect the Allies to reclaim much of what they lost, excepting only NE India (the Calcutta region) and possibly Madras.

Noumea: The transports returned to New Zealand and unloaded. The Allied carriers will enter the eastern Pacific (from the Canal Zone) in six days, proceed to Tahiti, and thence to New Zealand.

CenPac: The Wake/Marcus TFs are on the way back to Pearl to unload. The plan is to try again after the Allied carriers draw the KB down to SoPac.

< Message edited by Canoerebel -- 1/19/2011 3:22:43 PM >

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RE: One Weird Battle - 1/19/2011 8:53:12 PM

Canoerebel

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10/25/42 and 10/26/42

We've played three turns today - the first time we've done anything like this since late November. I'm afraid to ask Brad why the welcome change for fear it will break the spell.

Poona: The Allied army of 5,100 AV has arrived at Poona. The Allies will shock attack tomorrow. No need to fool around here - the Allies have about 150k troops to about 50k for Japan. I think Japan may have three divisions present. If the Allies can bust through here, there will be a real shot at mangling three to six IJA divisions. If, on the other hand, the Japanese are able to hold at Poona for a week or more, then it's a different game altogether. Allied airforce has undisputed dominion in the skies, so each turn a variety of IJA units take hits.

East India: Chindits took an undefended Sambalpar on the 25th. This base is pretty close to the east coast, but isn't on the railroad. Tomorrow, the Chindits will try for Jambulpur, which is on the railroad. My recon squadron didn't fly due to weather, so I'm not sure if the base is defended. If so, I won't have enough to take it.

Withdrawal: Kingfish got an empty xAP approaching Diamond Harbor. Also, SigInt reports 33rd Division, most recently in Burma, is now at Singapore. The Japanese are in full retirement mode in India.

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RE: One Weird Battle - 1/19/2011 9:42:13 PM

Cribtop

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The dam is bulging under the pressure. Will be interesting to see whether it will break.

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RE: One Weird Battle - 1/19/2011 10:54:05 PM

Chickenboy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton
Give the Japanese player the option of improving his pilots for some sort of cost

Uh...yeah. The IJ player has the option of improving his pilots for massive monthly HI cost as well as a major micromanagement commitment to pilot training. Both costs are very real.

As a JFB, I would oppose any major changes to the IJ opportunities to improve their pilots. You want a streamlined interface for the Allies, knock yourselves out. Just ensure there's an option that suits IJ sensibilities too.

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RE: One Weird Battle - 1/19/2011 11:16:25 PM

FatR

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The biggest cost for maintaining high level of pilot training Japan must pay is commitment of units. Creative resizing in carriers, unless banned by HRs can alleviate the problem for IJNAF only, but does not solve it entirely. For IJAAF only, in my Scen 70 game, I managed to maintain high level of training by committing 80% of 2nd Air Division and entire 51st Air Division to training only. I.e., all temporarily restricted reinforcement units and most of those that started the game in Manchuria/Home Islands.

EDIT: If you have a HR against resizing, IJNAF is practically doomed to be short on pilots if there is any meaningful attrition going on, considering how relatively few training units it has, and how much time you need to train a Betty/Kate pilot.

< Message edited by FatR -- 1/19/2011 11:48:57 PM >

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RE: One Weird Battle - 1/19/2011 11:35:01 PM

Canoerebel

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10/27/42

Battle of Poona: In a 16:1 shock attack, the Allies routed three IJA divisons at Poona. The rout is on. Most of the Allied armor reinforced by some infantry will pursue the defeated enemy, which fortunately for Brad took the optimum route of retreat down the good road toward the IJ port at Goa. Assuming Allied air can slow down the retreating units, the Allies should pulverize the badly mauled remants of the three divisions. For full combat report on this battle, see below.

Second Stack Isolated: This defeat means a second IJA stack of about three divisions, that had taken an interior, yellow trail after retreating from Jalagon weeks ago, is not almost certain to be cut off by the Allies. Most of the Allied infantry at Poona, supported by two small armored units, will advance one hex to the SE on a good road. Upon arriving in two days, the IJA stack to the north is isolated. Therefore, it appears that at least six and perhaps as many as eight IJA divisions face anhiliation. This is the big breakthrough and victory the Allies sought.

The results of the Battle of Poona:

Ground combat at Poona (36,26)

Allied Shock attack

Attacking force 135292 troops, 1949 guns, 3450 vehicles, Assault Value = 5162

Defending force 39317 troops, 405 guns, 201 vehicles, Assault Value = 1205

Allied engineers reduce fortifications to 1

Allied adjusted assault: 4224

Japanese adjusted defense: 251

Allied assault odds: 16 to 1 (fort level 1)

Allied forces CAPTURE Poona !!!

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), op mode(-), preparation(-)
Attacker: shock(+)

Japanese ground losses:
9414 casualties reported
Squads: 339 destroyed, 214 disabled
Non Combat: 477 destroyed, 234 disabled
Engineers: 77 destroyed, 12 disabled
Guns lost 204 (197 destroyed, 7 disabled)
Vehicles lost 172 (165 destroyed, 7 disabled)
Units retreated 6

Allied ground losses:
3654 casualties reported
Squads: 11 destroyed, 325 disabled
Non Combat: 25 destroyed, 578 disabled
Engineers: 4 destroyed, 29 disabled
Vehicles lost 251 (11 destroyed, 240 disabled)

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RE: One Weird Battle - 1/20/2011 1:32:04 AM

Cribtop

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Unleash J.E.B. Stuart! Assuming you can find him...

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RE: One Weird Battle - 1/20/2011 2:29:39 PM

Canoerebel

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Here's a map of the situation in India in late October 1942.

The Japanese are on the run after the successful Allied attack at Poona. The attack mauled three IJA divisions (5, 12, 38); a fourth (48) is stuck on a yellow road south of Bombay; at least one more (54), and more likely three, are NE of Poona and about to be cut off.

1st Div., which had been previously roughed up, is near Goa. 4th Div. is pulling garrison duty at the bases west of Calcutta.

The Allies will pursue these divisions and try to destroy or immasculate them. As the enemy units grow weaker, or are successfully extracted by Brad, the need for Allied troops in India will diminish. The American, Australian, and some British/Indian units are already prepping for bases in and around Sumatra (Americans), the islands just south of Sumatra (the Australians) and the Nicobars, Ceylon, and Diego Garcia/Addu Atoll (British and Indian troops).

Attachment (1)

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Post #: 1289

RE: One Weird Battle - 1/20/2011 9:00:51 PM

Canoerebel

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10/28/42

South of Poona: Allied armor at 1,000 AV have caught the three mauled IJA divisions and will attack tomorrow. If this attack is successful, these divisions will be total wrecks by the time they reach Goa, if they ever make it that far. If this attack doesn't succeed, I have about 750 AV in infantry on the way that can support the next attack.

East of Poona: A Brit armored unit arrived one hex east, thus cutting off the route of retreat for the IJA stack just to the north, which includes 54th Div. and 6th Guards Div. The Allies will have roughly 3,000 AV in this hex. The Japanese either have to take the hex or retreat through the jungle. I don't think either option is good. This stack is facing destruction unless Brad sends a stout army this way in relief, which I doubt he'll do.

More to Poona: With so much of the Japanese army on the ropes around Poona, I am sending all available units this way. This includes the sizeable Allied army that was advancing east from Nagpur. That route offers only bad roads. These units are at Nagpur and already in strat mode, so they should arrive at Poona in just a few days.

IJA Pain: I think Japan is facing the destruction or near destruction of six divisions (or perhaps as many as seven). This is not good for Japan, of course, and it is a big morale boost for the Allies, who suffered great ignominy in India, but it isn't the end of the world either. Brad will have successfully extracted about ten of his divisions from India when all is said and done.

< Message edited by Canoerebel -- 1/20/2011 9:03:37 PM >

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