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RE: One Weird Battle - 1/27/2011 6:32:44 AM

Bullwinkle58

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

In this game with Q-Ball, the key wasn't the targets, it was the commitment of Japanese infantry divisions. Brad set up an elaborate deception that he was targeting Australia, but since I never saw any infantry divisions come ashore, I was very skeptical and began to suspect India was his target by early January 1942. So, to me, the key to identifying the true targets is to follow the infantry divisions.

I only dimly recall his Oz effort, but outside of a lot of smoke was it really that big a deal? What do you think you would have done differently, say, if at the same time he was coming ashore on Ceylon he'd landed the PI-batch of infantry he didn't seige Bataan with at, perhaps, Cairns? Call it three divisions? How would you have responded in the period before he commmitted the other whatever (7-8?) divisions into mainland India?

I mean, if you're going to feint, sell it, right?

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RE: One Weird Battle - 1/27/2011 9:11:01 AM

corbon

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58
I'm still in Show Me mode on Oz being easier. I don't see a strategic hinge in Oz with the same oomph that Karachi has in India.

I don't play this game, or even have any particular interest in either naval combat or the pacific theatre WWII, but the AARs here are a fascinating read, and this 'pair' in particular has been very interesting. So apologies in advance if I am really asking something completely 'out of place' or a really dumb question.
I sort of feel embarrassed even asking this, but it becomes more and more a burning question for me as an outsider, the more this discussion goes.

I followed the whole Socatra(?)/Karachi line of death debate. The impression I got out of it was that most, if not all, of the extra reinforcements triggered for the allies in crossing this line arrived in Karachi itself (or in Capetown and can only really enter the game by passing through a Karachi blockade), and seemed to need time/resources to 'fill out' before being able to project real combat power.
Certainly my (limited) understanding is that even full strength troops who arrive trapped with limited supplies are as much a liability as a bonus in combat.
So the impression I got, was that if Karachi could be invested and 'cut off' from supply by sea (from Capetown?) then all the additional reinforcements either couldn't get there (if arriving via capetown) or having arrived there would actually be, especially over time, more of a drain on supplies than a positive contributor to combat strength.
Which means that successfully investing Karachi and having additional Allied LCUs arrive there to overstretch an extremely limited supply situation is actually beneficial to the Japanese player, especially from the POV of Auto-Victory points - additional reinforcements essentially become free VPs if they never get an opportunity to do anything but starve. Further, if supplies are used up in filling out and supporting the new LCUs that just leaves the collective force to starve even faster.

That makes Karachi even more of a strategic hinge. If the Japanese invest it effectively, they stand to 'earn' even greater VP than they anticipated as they swallow many or all of the reinforcements cheaply.

Is the situation significantly different from the impression I have?
I think perhaps it might be - surely all the experienced players couldn't have missed such a wrinkle. So apologies again if I am out of order here.

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RE: One Weird Battle - 1/27/2011 2:30:13 PM

Canoerebel

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Nearly all of the reinforcements triggered by Japanese encroachment in India arrive at Capetown.

There is one major exception: the Waristan Division arrives in Karachi. I think it arrives with complete TOE and something around 300 AV. (It will be a welcome arrival for the Allied player, but is by no means enough to halt the Japanese player if he arrives in earnest by summer 1942).

I know the Allied device pools get a big bump, but I don't know how this will effect the supply situation. If drawing on the increases in these pools requires suppy, then yes it could be a major problem for India. (I didn't get a decent amount of supply to India until I started running regular, major supply convoys sometime around early summer of 1942).

The Allies also get a bunch of aircraft, included much-needed fighters. I don't know where they arrive. If they don't arrive in India/Karachi, though, they won't be of much help if the Japanese have imposed a blockade.

A few things I might do differently if I were starting another Scenario Two agianst Brad or a player of equal ability, experience, and aggression: (1) As soon as possible transfer some major USA Marine and Army units on the West Coast to East Coast. From there I'd send them to Capetown, then to Karachi/India. this would weaken defenses in other key areas, but it would put some strength in India in early 1942 - February maybe? - probably before Japan could impose the blockade; (2) Immediately organize some major supply runs to India from Capetown to India and from USA to Capetown to India (I did this in this game, but not immediately and with full energy). (3) Getting reinforcements to Oz would be a priority, as would Hawaii. There aren't enough troops, and there aren't enough political points, so from Day One of the war the Allied player is going to be pulling his hair out.

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RE: One Weird Battle - 1/27/2011 2:35:41 PM

Canoerebel

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One other thing - I didn't build any ports or airfields in India because I had a hunch Brad was coming that way. I didn't want to hand over to him ready-made major airfields and ports. This proved to be a big help, but it also posed a potential problem as I almost didn't have enough aribases of my own. Fortunately, I figured things out soon enough that I had Bombay's airfield to level nine by the time Brad arrived, and Ahmadebad made it to nine not long afterwards. That was a tight thing, though. Bombay, Ahmadebad, and Karachi are three critical bases for the Allies. I think I'd begin developing those airfields immediately. I also wouldn't have any intention of committing major troops to the defense of Ceylon or the rest of India. I might use them as a speed bump, but I'd make sure they were able to withdraw safely to those three bases. If successful, the Allies can probably mount a pretty stout defense of western India by spring '42.

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RE: One Weird Battle - 1/27/2011 3:07:08 PM

AcePylut

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

A few things I might do differently if I were starting another Scenario Two agianst Brad or a player of equal ability, experience, and aggression: (1) As soon as possible transfer some major USA Marine and Army units on the West Coast to East Coast. From there I'd send them to Capetown, then to Karachi/India. this would weaken defenses in other key areas, but it would put some strength in India in early 1942 - February maybe? - probably before Japan could impose the blockade; (2) Immediately organize some major supply runs to India from Capetown to India and from USA to Capetown to India (I did this in this game, but not immediately and with full energy). (3) Getting reinforcements to Oz would be a priority, as would Hawaii. There aren't enough troops, and there aren't enough political points, so from Day One of the war the Allied player is going to be pulling his hair out.

Sounds like exactly what I did, except replace India with Oz as the destination for troops. Granted in my AAR PH took out the DEI very quick via the Mersing Gambit.

Of course, transferring all those US troops to Oz or India leaves the Pacific WIDE open, but that's the gamble you take. Where do you send those Marines? The Pacific, Oz, or India? You better decide quickly and correctly, or you might get auto-vp'ed

< Message edited by AcePylut -- 1/27/2011 3:08:43 PM >

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RE: One Weird Battle - 1/27/2011 4:25:25 PM

Canoerebel

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That's exactly right. The Allied player has to guess right or he's gonna get clobbered.

I was equally concerend about Hawaii, India, and Australia at the start of this game, though I felt India was best able to defend itself, which is true given enough time. From now on with Scenario Two, that time won't be available if a Japanese player intends to strike.

I am still convinced that a conquest of Oz or India will give Japanese an auto victory. I am concerned that Hawaii also poses a threat, though I don't think it's as great. There aren't as many VPs in Hawaii and an Allied player can manage even with Hawaii in enemy hands.

In fact, in a Scenario Two game against an experienced, aggressive Japanese player, that IJ player would probably be doing the Allies a favor by targeting Hawaii rather than Oz or India.

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RE: One Weird Battle - 1/27/2011 4:37:41 PM

Canoerebel

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11/4/42

South of Poona: In a fit of desperation, the mauled three-division IJA stack launched a deliberate attack against massed Allied armor (1300 AV) south of Poona. With this IJA stack about to be destroyed, Brad probably hoped to inflict at least some damage. But the battle resulted in terrific casualties to the Japanese army. I'm going to wait one more day - for the infantry to come up - before attacking. But this Japanese army will not escape.

Leaky Bucket: At Poona, the Allies got something like 20:1 odds against two disorganized, unsupplied Japanese divisions, but the attack didn't accomplish much. I have to get the AV down to zero before units will begin disappearing. Until then, the game mechanics mean that a surrounded army can put up a pretty stiff fight. I should also note that the Japanese do control one hexside (NE) and one-third of 6th Guards Division moved out. I'm sure the rest will follow tomorrow. But I control that hex to the NE with 325 AV, and Brad's units won't be able to withdraw from there. So this army will be detroyed in the near future.

48th Div: This IJA division is still stuck in the jungle south of Bombay. It's trapped and can't reach any sanctuary. It will be destroyed as soon as I free up some of the troops devoted to the other two IJ elements.

Allied Carriers: Will reach Tahiti in two or three days. After refueling, they are bound for either Fiji or Auckland.

Allied Strategy: Major elements of the Allied strategic plan have been in place, and discussed, since the beginning of this AAR. The time is getting closer, now, when that plan will be implemented. So I've turned my thoughts to what I really need to accomplish between now and then in order to facilitate the plan. I will discuss this at length in posts to follow later.

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RE: One Weird Battle - 1/27/2011 4:42:41 PM

JohnDillworth

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quote:

Allied Carriers: Will reach Tahiti in two or three days. After refueling, they are bound for either Fiji or Auckland.

Brad must be mad as a hornet right now. I would show those carriers as soon as possible. He will come running for some payback

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RE: One Weird Battle - 1/27/2011 4:44:28 PM

Canoerebel

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Brad's either mad as a hornet or totally disinterested due to WitE (here's where I wish I was more adept at reading my opponent, ala Nemo).

Those carriers are meant to draw the KB to SoPac so that I can invade CenPac. I hope it works just as you've said, John.

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RE: One Weird Battle - 1/27/2011 5:19:28 PM

paullus99

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He may jump at the opportunity just because he's looking for something to do - so I would expect a fairly vigorous response, if not completely thought through.

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RE: One Weird Battle - 1/27/2011 5:24:26 PM

John 3rd

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Brad's either mad as a hornet or totally disinterested due to WitE (here's where I wish I was more adept at reading my opponent, ala Nemo).

Those carriers are meant to draw the KB to SoPac so that I can invade CenPac. I hope it works just as you've said, John.

He'll go for it. That man has been looking for your CVs FOREVER and showing them will draw him immediately.

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RE: One Weird Battle - 1/27/2011 5:48:49 PM

MosheDayan

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Longtime lurker here, and newbie at AE. Just wanted to thank you (in fact, everyone who posted) for the great AAR, which I have read from the beginning over the last few days. Super interesting, and highly instructive.

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RE: One Weird Battle - 1/27/2011 6:46:43 PM

Bullwinkle58

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Nearly all of the reinforcements triggered by Japanese encroachment in India arrive at Capetown.

No, I think you're misremembering. From the series of ER posts I did. From the trigger report:

"India invaded! Counter invasion forces released.
xAK Charles McCormick arrives at Cristobal
xAK Ganges arrives at Cape Town
AM Kiwi arrives at Auckland
AM Moa arrives at Auckland
XXI Indian Corps arrives at Aden
6th Indian Division arrives at Abadan
10th Indian Division arrives at Aden
Waziristan Division arrives at Karachi
31st Armoured Division arrives at Aden
8th Indian Division arrives at Aden
Emergency Convoy Supply Convoy arrives at Aden
5th Indian Division arrives at Aden
XXI Corps Engineer Battalion arrives at Aden "

This shows why it's critical for the Japanese player to have Karachi in hand in parallel with the trigger. He just doesn't have time to futz around while forces move from CT.

< Message edited by Bullwinkle58 -- 1/27/2011 6:59:39 PM >

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RE: One Weird Battle - 1/27/2011 6:54:01 PM

Xxzard

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Now I'm curious, how strong is the Waziristan division? Looks like even if Karachi is the first place you invade, you won't be able to attack before it arrives. If it is a full division, this could make any attempt to land directly at Karachi very difficult. On the other hand, it could be a smaller unit with a misleading name.

Bullwinkle, can you recall if the Waziristan division is a significant fighting force?

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RE: One Weird Battle - 1/27/2011 7:04:42 PM

Bullwinkle58

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This thread has screenies of all the LCUs in the reinforcement package.

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2616532&mpage=1&key=Emergency%2CReinforcement�

The division you name is medium stiff, but some of the others off-map are good too. As CR alludes, however, activating devices out of the pools could be a real bear depending on supply states in the Mideast and Karachi. Lots of discussion on this at the time, especially in how to deal with Bombay and its x4 terrain bonus.

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RE: One Weird Battle - 1/27/2011 7:21:05 PM

Canoerebel

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Ah, Aden then, not Capetown (I had forgotten).

I think the optimum IJA approach might be to land in force at Surat (which doesn't trigger). Then build up the force in preparation for moving on Karachi (triggering reinforcemetns) and Bombay. You can use the KB and combat TFs, based out of Surat or even Goa, to then steam north and impose a blockade of Karachi and Bombay. That should prevent the Allies from getting the reinforcements from Aden to India.

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RE: One Weird Battle - 1/27/2011 7:36:19 PM

Bullwinkle58

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Ah, Aden then, not Capetown (I had forgotten).

I think the optimum IJA approach might be to land in force at Surat (which doesn't trigger). Then build up the force in preparation for moving on Karachi (triggering reinforcemetns) and Bombay. You can use the KB and combat TFs, based out of Surat or even Goa, to then steam north and impose a blockade of Karachi and Bombay. That should prevent the Allies from getting the reinforcements from Aden to India.

Opinions will differ on which is the lower risk path. My feeling is, if you have seaborne strategic mobility because the Allies give it to you, and thus you have surprise, use it. Crunching overland from the south up to invest Karachi might work if the IJN realio trulio blockades the wormhole, BUT, if it fails, your overland hammer is going to run into a huge grunch of new divisions sitting at Karachi with decent organic supplies, morale, and disruption levels. Then it's a siege the Japanese might lose.

Better to me to do a 5-division Inchon landing on Karachi, triggering as soon as the first Japanese foot hits dirt, overwhelm Karachi, close the port, and get some LBA in very quickly to hold the wormhole shut.

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RE: One Weird Battle - 1/27/2011 9:31:09 PM

Canoerebel

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The Grand Allied Plan (ie, how 1943 will unfold, at least until first contact with the enemy)

Goal: To seize, hold, and utlize one critical IJ area, and to use that strike to clear out opposition to allow Allied moves in at least two other areas.

Main Objective: Sumatra (D-Day spring or summer 1943)
A. Primary targets: Padang, Benkoelen, Lahat, and possibly Oosthaven.
B. Secondary targets; Cocos Island, Christmas (IO) Island, several islands off Sumatra's south coast, several of the Andaman chain.

Secondary Objectives (following Sumatra by a week or two):
A. Primary Targets: Tarawa and Luganville
B. Secondary Targets: Ocean Island, Nauru Island, Tabituea

Feints: Prior to the invasion of Sumatra, the Allies will sned mock invasion TFs towards Broome/Derby/Darwin followed a day or two later by a move towards the Kuriles.
A. To heighten the perceived threat to the Darwin area, the Allies will invade Exmouth and Port Headland, the former in 12/42 or 1/43; the latter later).
B. The Allies have already done the heavy lifting to build up the appearance of threat in NoPac by substantially garrisoning and building the Aleutians bases.
C. The invasions of Marcus Island and Wake Island, to take place in 11/42 or 12/42, are meant to enhance the appearance of a major Allied move in CenPac and NoPac.
D. To "free up" CenPac from the KB threat, the Allies will reveal their carriers near New Caledonia around mid November of '42. With the use of surprise and screening picket ships giving ample warning of the KB, the Allies will concurrently invade Noumea unless the KB is present and a carrier battle seems imminent.
E. Immediately upon completion of the Noumea operations, the Allies carriers will report to SW Oz to provide cover for the Exmouth and/or Port Headland invasions.
F. During late '42 and ealry '43, the Allies will stage invasions of North Male Island, Addu Atoll, Diego Garcia, and possibly Ceylon, using forces currently in India. Air cover to be provided by LBA. These operations aren't really a feint, but will aid the Allies in staging long-range aircraft from India to bases in Sumatra.

Force Allocation:
A. Sumatra: Five USA divisions, two Australian divisions, the equivalent of several more divisions (forces still assembling).
B. Luganville: Allied troops currently committed to (or stationed at) Noumea operation, Auckland, Suva, Nadi, Pago Pago, and Tahiti (totalling up to three division equivalents).
C. Tarawa: One division equivalent currently at Pearl Harbor (this needs to be bumped up)
D. Ocean Island: One RCT (at Pearl).
E. Naru Island: One RCT (at Pearl)
F. Exmouth: Two Oz Bdes (in Oz).
G. Port Headland: Two Oz Bdes, three Oz Bns (in Oz, this needs to be bumped up)
H. Marcus Island: Two RCT, tanks, combat engineers (at Pearl)
I. Wake Island: Four RCT, tanks, arty, combat engineers, HQ (at Pearl)

Invasion Timeline:
A. Noumea (carrier activity and possibly invasion) - 11/42
B. Wake (and probably Marcus) - following Noumea within a week
C. Exmouth - I might try to wing this one, or I might await the carriers
D. Male/Addu/Diego: Late in 12/42 or early 1/43
E. Sumatra: no earlier than 3/43, no later than 9/43 (leaning towards earlier now)
F. Tarawa: within a week or ten days of Sumatra
G. Luganville: within days of Tarawa

Assuming the Plan Survives Enemy Contact: Sumatra would give the Allies a death grip on Japanese oil. The enemy will throw everythying at the Allies. I don't expect to advance from there in any meaningful way until well into 1944. The Allies will have their hands full in that theater just holding off the enemy. But that should clear other theaters for some advances - CenPac in particular.

Key to the Plan: To carry this off, the Allies need vast numbers of troop transports and an intact carrier fleet (hence my shielding of ships and CVs since December 7). Prior to Sumatra, this plan requires that I expose my fleet carriers only twice - at New Caledonia this month and at Exmouth or Port Headland in two months or so. Should I stumble into a defeat here, this plan is vitiated.

About Troop Transports: The Allies don't get many of these in 1942. I just completed a survey of where mine are, and I'm making some major adjustments. Here's my current census of AP and xAP location (not including a handful currently at sea): Pearl Harbor - 16 (just enough to handle Wake and Marcus); New Zealand - 17 (enough to handle Noumea); Australia (24 - plenty to handle Exmouth, Port Headland, but only a small fraction of what will be needed here for Sumatra); Capetown - 48 (far more than is needed to handle the IO operations plus transferring troops to Oz in coming months, so I'm sending 25 of these to Oz immediately); Aden/Abadan - 13 (enough to handle the IO invasions with the loan of a few from Capetown). Every new AP, APA, xAP, LST, etc. that arrives in the next four months will be like gold. Every such ship lost in the operations taking place during that interval will be dearly lamented.

More later.

< Message edited by Canoerebel -- 1/27/2011 9:37:00 PM >

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RE: One Weird Battle - 1/27/2011 10:29:32 PM

anarchyintheuk

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Do you have enough fighters active and in reserve to move on so many fronts?

Off hand, I know the Corsair is about and the Hellcat on the way, but I don't know the in service dates for the new RAF/USAAF fighter models.

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RE: One Weird Battle - 1/27/2011 11:03:14 PM

Canoerebel

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No, though I don't need fighters everywhere since I'm not fighting everywhere at the same time.

1. Noumea will have the Allied carrier cover.
2. Noumea is meant to draw the KB, so that Wake and Marcus can proceed with just a handful of CVEs (Marcus is only a level one airfield; Wake is a level three, which should exact a toll, but it's an atoll too, so an invasion in overwhelming numbers should take it quickly).
3. Exmouth and/or Port Headland will probably have the carriers for cover (Exmouth I may handle by surprise only).
4. Sumatra will have the carriers.
5. Sumatra will draw all IJA aircraft, permitting the Allies to move on Tarawa and Luganville with just CVE cover.
6. The Diego/Addu/North Male operations will be handled by surprise; Ceylon will be covered by LBA.

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RE: One Weird Battle - 1/28/2011 1:11:58 PM

FOW

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I think what anarchy meant, and I'd be also interested in is:

do you have enough fighter LBA units, and sufficient in the pools, of decent models, to effectively contest/defend the multiple operations you are planning?

Of course Sumatra will need the most to defend it. So are you prepared to cede control of the air at Wake/Marcus/Tarawa/Ocean etc?. Also what trigger point would force you to withdraw fighters from those locations to preserve your limited fighter strength for the main effort in sumatra?

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RE: One Weird Battle - 1/28/2011 1:57:19 PM

Canoerebel

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I can't imagine posting any fighters at any island base. The small fields at Ocean, Nauru, and Marcus are level one, so devoting fighters won't help. They can be overwhelmed too easily. Wake is too remote for a serious commitment of air power. In the absence of the American carriers, the Japanese can bombard and/or bomb the airfield into submission. Not sure about Tarawa, yet.

I don't see any utility in committing fighters to small, isolated bases. If you have multiple, interlocking bases of some size, yes; island like Marcus, no.

So I'll devote as much aircraft as possible to the defense of Sumatra. This will be tough going. Taking Ceylon (and taking or developing another base in the Andamans or one of small bases off the southwest coast of Sumatra) will help the ferrying process of aircraft from India to Sumatra.

If the Allies succeed in landing in force at Sumatra, though, it's going to create a pretty big vaccuum everywhere else. That offensive will probably relieve the pressure on the islands, at least for awhile until the new wave of Allied carriers are on the board.

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RE: One Weird Battle - 1/28/2011 2:08:36 PM

Canoerebel

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11/5/42

Poona: This Allied attack resulted in high IJA casualties - about 500 squads destroyed. So the destruction of the two IJA divisions here will not take much longer. One-third of 6th Guards Division remains a hex to the NE, but I'll take care of it after I finish off the stack at Poona. To the west, 48th Division remains in place. I'll attend to it later, too.

South of Poona: The infantry caught up to the armor, so tomorrow most of the Alied units (about 1600 AV) will shock attack, with about 350 AV set to follow. I think this attack will all but anhiliate the remnants of these three divisions, so that the 350 AV following will be sufficient to handle whatever's left the day after tomorrow.

China: This theater has been quiet, thank goodness. With the Burma Road and Hump shut down, supplies are tight. But there hasn't been any movement by Japan since Liuchow fell months ago. The Chinese are too weak to sustain an offensive against any well-entrenched defenders, but I am going to feel around the front lines east of Sian, where the Japanese are not particularly strong. The three "front line hexes" there are defended by less than 1,000 IJA AV each, so there may be an opportunity for some mischief.

Australia: In conjunction with the major planning undertaken yesterday, the Allies began recon of Exmouth (just to give Brad something new to think about) and began advancing troops from Alice Springs/Tennant Creek towards Daly Waters. Supply is a major obstacle to an advance on this road, but the terrain lends itself to a threat of envelopment for the forward IJA garrisons. I'm sending a bunch of units, to give the appearance of a major campaign, but they are mostly small. Nevertheless, through bluff and bluster I might be able to take a base or two and heighten the appearance of coordinate threat ot the Darwin theater.

Fish or Cut Bait: The Alied carriers will arrive at Tahiti. I have misgivings about exposing them to greatly elevated risk, so I'm currently reevaluating my plans to make sure they are optimum and sensible. I'm pretty sure I will commit the carriers to the New Caledonia campaign, while mostly keeping them relatively close to Fiji. But I'm also re-evaluating the utlity of committing them to the Wake/Marcus operations, instead, or even keeping them hidden in South Oz so that they'll be ready for Sumatra at a moment's notice.

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RE: One Weird Battle - 1/28/2011 3:07:42 PM

ny59giants

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Where are you going to use your armor?? In Andy Mac's game vs PzB he is using them in mass to take Darwin. You could take them to Sumatra as they will be able to react quicker to his counter attacks or land them as follow up at Port Hedland and supply them by transport as they drive on Broome. When I play Japan, I use them to get around Sumatra quickly.

(in reply to Canoerebel)

Post #: 1404

RE: One Weird Battle - 1/28/2011 3:18:15 PM

Canoerebel

Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
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11/6/42

Brad and I got in an extra turn as I ended up working late last night, which is now a better time for him to game.

South of Poona (now North of Goa): The Allied shock attack came off as expected, destroying 700 infantry and support squads. The enemy retired towards Goa, with 335 Allied AV following. I won't attack again until the day after tomorrow, to give the armor and infantry time to advance (no reason to outrun the bulk of my units).

Poona: The Allied deliberate attack destroyed 350 squads, with no squads disabled (meaning that the Japanese units are about to vanish).

Squad scoring: Before the Allies corralled and began attacking these five IJA divisions, the Japanese had lost just 600 army points in the game. That total is up to 1,000 in just a week or two. I don't know what the score will be by the time these five divisions are liquidated, and then 48th Div. attended to, but it will be interesting to see. The Allies, in contrast, have lost 12,500 army points, so I have a long way to go before I can start feeling smug about things. Nevertheless, 12,500 to 1,000 feels alot better than 12,500 to 600.

Allied Carriers: All but one TF has reached Tahiti and refueld. The carriers should be ready to depart tomorrow. (It's interesting to note that this is the first appearance by the Allied carriers on the map since they snuck into Capetown way back in early 1942).

Japanese Intentions: The KB vanished months ago. No clues of it's whereabouts. My best guess would be Truk or Kwaj. I could really use a SigInt report that "CV Kaga is at 68/143" right now. Two months ago, I was certain that Brad would invade Fiji and Midway before the end of the year. It would be a terrible coincidence if the Allied carriers blundered into the a Japanese invasion force with KB while steaming innocently through the seas. I considered this and I've decided that there's no way Brad is going to invade Fiji at this late date. Too much time has transpired, the garrison is too strong, and he doesn't yet know where my carriers are. However, I believe he HAS to invade Midway. Failure to do so would be criminal neglect on his part. If he isn't already on the way or planning this, the appearance of my carriers around Fiji would be a good green light. The thought of my Wake/Marcus TFs blundering into the KB up that way is equally noxious. *ack* as Bill the Cat would say.

Use of Picket Ships: Throughout the game, the Allies have made use of picket ships. With regard to SoPac, I've had a few xAKL spread around New Caledonia for months. As this operation unfolds, I'll send more, plus several small DD TFs. I've also had a picket xAK west of Midway for most of the game. That too will be increased as the Allies proceed west. Some players oppose the use of picket ships on the basis that they wouldn't have been used in the real war. I think they would have under these circumstances. In the real war, the Allies had a pretty good idea where the IJN carriers were, or weren't. That allowed the Allies to undertake operations without the threat of wholesale slaughter. In this game, due to the near-total failiure of SigInt, and Brad's extended cloaking of his carriers, I have no idea. None. Had the real Allies had no clue of the location of an extremely powerful force that greatly outnumbered critical Allied assets (like carriers and troop ships), I'm sure they would have sent small, expendable ships, or nimble, fast destroyers, forward as pickets.

(in reply to Canoerebel)

Post #: 1405

RE: One Weird Battle - 1/28/2011 3:26:55 PM

Canoerebel

Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants
Where are you going to use your armor?? In Andy Mac's game vs PzB he is using them in mass to take Darwin. You could take them to Sumatra as they will be able to react quicker to his counter attacks or land them as follow up at Port Hedland and supply them by transport as they drive on Broome. When I play Japan, I use them to get around Sumatra quickly.

The British and Indian armor (plus 1st Marine Tanks) are doing a superb job in the great land campaign in India. Some small Aussie armored units are heading for Daly Waters in the coming weeks to assist in the little envelopment campaign intended to appear "big."

I would love to bring armor to Sumatra, though I don't yet know how much I can bring. First priority is powerful American and Australian infantry divisions, because after about a week Sumatra will turn into a hotly contested defensive battle. Also, political points are amazingly scarce. I won't be able to buy out any of the restricted Indian units, I'm afraid. That will leave me with some American and Australian units with maybe an Indian unit or two thrown in.

If I can put eight Allied divisions ashore in good shape, the key to the battle will then become air power and LOC. If the Allied carries are in good shape, I should be able to handle LOC matters. The air campign, though, is going to be a bugger.

< Message edited by Canoerebel -- 1/28/2011 3:27:19 PM >

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Post #: 1406

RE: One Weird Battle - 1/28/2011 4:35:55 PM

crsutton

Posts: 9590
Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Maryland
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Nearly all of the reinforcements triggered by Japanese encroachment in India arrive at Capetown.

There is one major exception: the Waristan Division arrives in Karachi. I think it arrives with complete TOE and something around 300 AV. (It will be a welcome arrival for the Allied player, but is by no means enough to halt the Japanese player if he arrives in earnest by summer 1942).

I know the Allied device pools get a big bump, but I don't know how this will effect the supply situation. If drawing on the increases in these pools requires suppy, then yes it could be a major problem for India. (I didn't get a decent amount of supply to India until I started running regular, major supply convoys sometime around early summer of 1942).

The Allies also get a bunch of aircraft, included much-needed fighters. I don't know where they arrive. If they don't arrive in India/Karachi, though, they won't be of much help if the Japanese have imposed a blockade.

A few things I might do differently if I were starting another Scenario Two agianst Brad or a player of equal ability, experience, and aggression: (1) As soon as possible transfer some major USA Marine and Army units on the West Coast to East Coast. From there I'd send them to Capetown, then to Karachi/India. this would weaken defenses in other key areas, but it would put some strength in India in early 1942 - February maybe? - probably before Japan could impose the blockade; (2) Immediately organize some major supply runs to India from Capetown to India and from USA to Capetown to India (I did this in this game, but not immediately and with full energy). (3) Getting reinforcements to Oz would be a priority, as would Hawaii. There aren't enough troops, and there aren't enough political points, so from Day One of the war the Allied player is going to be pulling his hair out.

I agree.

This has pretty much been my SOP even with WITP. I start the transfer of air squadrons from day one (in WITP you had to ship them from OZ) and in the case of AE the Australian I corps went to India. If there is not a major incursion into India by May 1, then you are probably safe and I then think about transferring the Aussie units to home. A good Japanese player who elects to go for OZ instead can be invading by May 1 but you can shift Allied troops to help out. I really don't know if OZ can be taken either but it sure can be a test but my policy has been India first so far.

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Post #: 1407

RE: One Weird Battle - 1/28/2011 4:41:31 PM

John 3rd

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From: La Salle, Colorado
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Your strategic plan for '43 looks quite sound.

It is safe to expose your CVs for a day or two and then disappear. The chance of him having his CVs in the exact spot where you appear is tiny. Drag your coattails for a day or two and bugout. Get him looking the wrong way...

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Post #: 1408

RE: One Weird Battle - 1/28/2011 4:44:49 PM

Canoerebel

Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
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Brad has at least three subs around Fiji. He's really paying close attention to this theater. It should be easy to get his full attention. A sniff of my carriers and all his warning bells will be clanging.

But - and this is the paranoid side of me - I can just feel the possiblity of Brad guessing right so that my carriers stumble right into his. (Nemo and NY Giants, what's the diagnosis and treatment for these feelings of paranoia?). There's always some risk, though, so no matter when I get going I'm going to be worried.

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Post #: 1409

RE: One Weird Battle - 1/28/2011 4:47:53 PM

crsutton

Posts: 9590
Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Maryland
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

11/6/42

Brad and I got in an extra turn as I ended up working late last night, which is now a better time for him to game.

South of Poona (now North of Goa): The Allied shock attack came off as expected, destroying 700 infantry and support squads. The enemy retired towards Goa, with 335 Allied AV following. I won't attack again until the day after tomorrow, to give the armor and infantry time to advance (no reason to outrun the bulk of my units).

Poona: The Allied deliberate attack destroyed 350 squads, with no squads disabled (meaning that the Japanese units are about to vanish).

Squad scoring: Before the Allies corralled and began attacking these five IJA divisions, the Japanese had lost just 600 army points in the game. That total is up to 1,000 in just a week or two. I don't know what the score will be by the time these five divisions are liquidated, and then 48th Div. attended to, but it will be interesting to see. The Allies, in contrast, have lost 12,500 army points, so I have a long way to go before I can start feeling smug about things. Nevertheless, 12,500 to 1,000 feels alot better than 12,500 to 600.

Allied Carriers: All but one TF has reached Tahiti and refueld. The carriers should be ready to depart tomorrow. (It's interesting to note that this is the first appearance by the Allied carriers on the map since they snuck into Capetown way back in early 1942).

Japanese Intentions: The KB vanished months ago. No clues of it's whereabouts. My best guess would be Truk or Kwaj. I could really use a SigInt report that "CV Kaga is at 68/143" right now. Two months ago, I was certain that Brad would invade Fiji and Midway before the end of the year. It would be a terrible coincidence if the Allied carriers blundered into the a Japanese invasion force with KB while steaming innocently through the seas. I considered this and I've decided that there's no way Brad is going to invade Fiji at this late date. Too much time has transpired, the garrison is too strong, and he doesn't yet know where my carriers are. However, I believe he HAS to invade Midway. Failure to do so would be criminal neglect on his part. If he isn't already on the way or planning this, the appearance of my carriers around Fiji would be a good green light. The thought of my Wake/Marcus TFs blundering into the KB up that way is equally noxious. *ack* as Bill the Cat would say.

Use of Picket Ships: Throughout the game, the Allies have made use of picket ships. With regard to SoPac, I've had a few xAKL spread around New Caledonia for months. As this operation unfolds, I'll send more, plus several small DD TFs. I've also had a picket xAK west of Midway for most of the game. That too will be increased as the Allies proceed west. Some players oppose the use of picket ships on the basis that they wouldn't have been used in the real war. I think they would have under these circumstances. In the real war, the Allies had a pretty good idea where the IJN carriers were, or weren't. That allowed the Allies to undertake operations without the threat of wholesale slaughter. In this game, due to the near-total failiure of SigInt, and Brad's extended cloaking of his carriers, I have no idea. None. Had the real Allies had no clue of the location of an extremely powerful force that greatly outnumbered critical Allied assets (like carriers and troop ships), I'm sure they would have sent small, expendable ships, or nimble, fast destroyers, forward as pickets.

Here is a question for you and all other readers. Now with both sides having the ability to rebuild destroyed units, and considering scen #2 and Japanese production, is it just wiser to beat Japanese units and then push them to a spot where they are trapped rather than destroying them outright? As long as a small fragment is left the unit can not be purchased and rebuilt. I have taken some island bases and not yet wiped out the defenders for this reason. Reasoning that even if they ultimately escape the rebuilding of the unit will be delayed and getting them out cost time and resources and risks shipping. And then, my last question is should I consider this gamey and refrain from doing it.

_____________________________

I am the Holy Roman Emperor and am above grammar.

Sigismund of Luxemburg

(in reply to Canoerebel)

Post #: 1410