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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> After Action Reports >> RE: Bid Thee Return

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RE: Bid Thee Return - 2/16/2011 7:54:02 AM

Igel

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel.............Second, all Allied activity is (and has been) designed to give the appearance of a mounting threat in NoPac, CenPac (Wake), SoPac (Noumea) and SWPac (Horn Island and NW Oz).

If I were your opponent i will immediately suspicious of your intentions

You're a bad guy

Pd.: Great AAr, a lot of ideas, plans & stategy discussions. Thank you.

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Post #: 1711

RE: Bid Thee Return - 2/16/2011 3:04:02 PM

Canoerebel

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11/30/42

Thank You, Dear Reader: Thank you Igel, and all the rest of you, whether you dropped in once or come by more often, for all the kind comments and words of encouragement.

India: The Allies took Comilla and Cuttack against light opposition that was easily brushed back. The big army advancing on Calcutta should make the river crossing in three days. I don't expect the three units there to be able to hold the base. I'm having a bit of trouble getting supply to new forward bases, especially Trivandrum and Madras. That is limiting me a bit, but it should get worked out pretty soon. Tomorrow, the Chindits will try to take two dot hexes on the railroad that leads from the interior to Comilla, Chittagong, etc. That should open that route up to supply and reinforcement. Brad is landing 4th/A Div. at Akyab.

Oz: No sign of IJ awareness of all the Allies units in and around Daly Waters. An IJ sub sank an xAK off the cape south of Perth - I'll have to be careful with my Exmouth invasion ships in that area. The Allied carriers refueled at Hobart and will move SSE before radically changing course to the west. An IJ sub is hanging around, but I don't know if Brad has picked up the carriers yet.

Wake Island: Two supply xAKL will arrive tomorrow, though they may not be received nicely. The Allied effort here is hanging by a thread, but as long as there is that thread I'll try to work things out.

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Post #: 1712

RE: Bid Thee Return - 2/16/2011 5:51:35 PM

SuluSea

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If you invade Sumatra I'll be here daily reading, but I have to agree it's a bold plan but too risky of an operation considering the assets both combatants have at this stage. You smashed his Indian invasion troops you could lose the initiative with a failed Sumatra invasion and considering the state of your gator navy I'd say it's a pretty good bet that will happen.

----------------> getting my popcorn ready just in case

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Post #: 1713

RE: Bid Thee Return - 2/16/2011 6:09:10 PM

Canoerebel

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Sulu, I'm reading you guys. I'm hearing you guys. The lineup of "that probably aint the brightest idea I've heard" proponents is impressive and growing.

Just for the record, I will continue to plan the Sumatra operation. The question is when it will be implemented. The soonest possible date is late March of 1943, which is nearly four months away. I think the latest possibility would be October 1943, because after that winter would shut down the Kuriles, the location of my major feint.

I think I can do it...but every time I come up with one of these nifty plans it devolves pretty quickly into an ugly affair that leaves everyone involved feeling pretty sullied.

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Post #: 1714

RE: Bid Thee Return - 2/16/2011 6:14:32 PM

paullus99

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LOL - actually, if you can hit multiple bases simultaneously & create a pretty good lodgement, it will be hard for him to suppress your newly-won airfields. The key will be to not take any half-measures, but go in with the maximum amount of force in the shortest possible timeframe.

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Post #: 1715

RE: Bid Thee Return - 2/16/2011 6:26:40 PM

witpqs

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Sulu, I'm reading you guys. I'm hearing you guys. The lineup of "that probably aint the brightest idea I've heard" proponents is impressive and growing.

Just for the record, I will continue to plan the Sumatra operation. The question is when it will be implemented. The soonest possible date is late March of 1943, which is nearly four months away. I think the latest possibility would be October 1943, because after that winter would shut down the Kuriles, the location of my major feint.

I think I can do it...but every time I come up with one of these nifty plans it devolves pretty quickly into an ugly affair that leaves everyone involved feeling pretty sullied.

Hey, I don't know if it will work or not. But the date you cite is the biggest problem that I see. You will be much better off with at least some assault shipping, and by that date you will have just above squat. A bit arrives before then, but the first of the conversions occur in 3/43. That last bit means they have to get done and then get in place for you to use them. So, my only criticism is that your 'soonest' date is too soon for that.

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Post #: 1716

RE: Bid Thee Return - 2/16/2011 6:35:36 PM

Canoerebel

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Nein! The late March date was selected for that very reason. All of my APs that convert to APAs are (or soon will be) located in Melbourne. They will upgrade beginning March 1, so I think I could invade as early as late March (though it might take longer considering the length of the journey).

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Post #: 1717

RE: Bid Thee Return - 2/16/2011 6:40:51 PM

witpqs

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OK - you got the timeline down! BTW, more convert in June, but the longer you wait might be worse.

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Post #: 1718

RE: Bid Thee Return - 2/16/2011 7:06:30 PM

Canoerebel

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Here's a revised and updated general outline of my plan:

1. Feint towards NW Oz (Brad will be waiting for this move).
2. A day or two later, feint towards the Kuriles (he should be waiting for this, too).
3. At same time as two, feint towards Rangoon or Port Blair (these ships will then be used for the real invasion of the Andamans, as set forth below)
4. At same time as two and three, feint towards Horn Island and/or Port Moresby, including paratroop drop on a vacant base like Terapo (the feinting ships will then be used for a real invasion of Horn or PM, as set forth below).
5. Massive invasion of Sumatra including Cocos Island and several islands just off Sumatra's south coast. Mostly Americans and Australians involved. Major targets are Padang, Benkoelen, and Lahat, plus three or four of the islands offshore.
6. Invasion of Nicobars and Andamans and some small islands off western Sumatra (possibly to coincide with Sumatra or following a day or two later). Mostly British and Indian units involved.
7. Secondary invasion in SoPac (Horn Island or New Guinea) - perhaps a week later
8. Secondary invasion in CenPac (perhaps in or near the Gilberts) - perhaps a week later.

Number three, the feint towards Port Blair or Rangoon, won't require additional shipping since the vessels will then be used for the actual Nicobars/Andamans operations.

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Post #: 1719

RE: Bid Thee Return - 2/16/2011 7:14:29 PM

Cribtop

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Be careful that feint number 3 doesn't get him looking in the right direction at an inopportune time. Make sure you leave enough time after feints 1and 2 that he has steamed Combined Fleet out of position for Sumatra.

FWIW, I concur that Sumatra is a high risk/high yield move. However, I encourage you to do it. What's the point of every game featuring the same old Allied thrust at Timor, eh? Easy for me to say as it's your pixeltruppen on the line, not mine.

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Post #: 1720

RE: Bid Thee Return - 2/16/2011 7:15:42 PM

Canoerebel

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Cribtop, good idea. In fact, Feint 3 might end up being Feint 1.

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Post #: 1721

RE: Bid Thee Return - 2/16/2011 11:42:49 PM

Smeulders

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I think that feint will prove to be very valuable. You're building quite a reputation with these sorts of things, so if you're springing into action all across the globe while staying suspiciously calm around the Indian Ocean might get you into trouble once the real invasion comes.

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Post #: 1722

RE: Bid Thee Return - 2/17/2011 2:36:40 PM

Canoerebel

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That's a good point, too, Smeulders.

Also, if Brad happened to luck up on just one SigInt report of a major American unit prepping for a port in Sumatra, all of my efforts are for naught. It's unlikely he would receive such a report, but I suppose it isn't 100% impossible...and I've had troops prepping in Oz and America since around December 7, 1941.

On a separate note, I had hoped the increase in activity in the game - especially the Allied invasion of Wake - would stir my opponent to renewed interest in the game. But the turns are coming more irregularly now, and as usual Brad remains totally non-communicative.

< Message edited by Canoerebel -- 2/17/2011 2:37:36 PM >

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Post #: 1723

RE: Bid Thee Return - 2/17/2011 8:09:13 PM

Bullwinkle58

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

That's a good point, too, Smeulders.

Also, if Brad happened to luck up on just one SigInt report of a major American unit prepping for a port in Sumatra, all of my efforts are for naught. It's unlikely he would receive such a report, but I suppose it isn't 100% impossible...and I've had troops prepping in Oz and America since around December 7, 1941.

On a separate note, I had hoped the increase in activity in the game - especially the Allied invasion of Wake - would stir my opponent to renewed interest in the game. But the turns are coming more irregularly now, and as usual Brad remains totally non-communicative.

I've been steadily reading his WitR AAR and learning tons about how that game works. I think turns may be irregular due to blizzard conditions at his house.

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Post #: 1724

RE: Bid Thee Return - 2/17/2011 8:31:11 PM

Canoerebel

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If he's treating his wife like he treats me, I'll bet he's encountered some blizzard conditions at home!

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Post #: 1725

RE: Bid Thee Return - 2/17/2011 9:45:31 PM

BletchleyGeek

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

If he's treating his wife like he treats me, I'll bet he's encountered some blizzard conditions at home!

He's doing an excellent job there in Russia. If he's able to knock out the Soviet Union perhaps he'll be asking for a restart on your game ;-)

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Post #: 1726

RE: Bid Thee Return - 2/18/2011 6:57:14 AM

JeffroK

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Nah, I think he will be for an interesting Winter.

At least his show in India should have given him practice at having his Army smashed.

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Post #: 1727

RE: Bid Thee Return - 2/18/2011 10:59:50 AM

d0mbo

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffK

Nah, I think he will be for an interesting Winter.

At least his show in India should have given him practice at having his Army smashed.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bletchley_Geek

quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

If he's treating his wife like he treats me, I'll bet he's encountered some blizzard conditions at home!

He's doing an excellent job there in Russia. If he's able to knock out the Soviet Union perhaps he'll be asking for a restart on your game ;-)

Are you guys talking about the Game That Shall Not Be Mentioned In The AE Forums???

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Post #: 1728

RE: Bid Thee Return - 2/19/2011 9:05:50 AM

yubari

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

That's a good point, too, Smeulders.

Also, if Brad happened to luck up on just one SigInt report of a major American unit prepping for a port in Sumatra, all of my efforts are for naught. It's unlikely he would receive such a report, but I suppose it isn't 100% impossible...and I've had troops prepping in Oz and America since around December 7, 1941.

On a separate note, I had hoped the increase in activity in the game - especially the Allied invasion of Wake - would stir my opponent to renewed interest in the game. But the turns are coming more irregularly now, and as usual Brad remains totally non-communicative.

I am now in February 1943 playing as the Japanese and have never seen anything like this. The most that the Japanese ever see is reports of radio transmissions at certain bases, or more rarely radio receptions of ships at sea.

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Post #: 1729

RE: Bid Thee Return - 2/19/2011 10:57:06 AM

JeffroK

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quote:

ORIGINAL: d0mbo

quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffK

Nah, I think he will be for an interesting Winter.

At least his show in India should have given him practice at having his Army smashed.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bletchley_Geek

quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

If he's treating his wife like he treats me, I'll bet he's encountered some blizzard conditions at home!

He's doing an excellent job there in Russia. If he's able to knock out the Soviet Union perhaps he'll be asking for a restart on your game ;-)

Are you guys talking about the Game That Shall Not Be Mentioned In The AE Forums???

If AE cant take some comments about the "New kid in the block" it is indeed in trouble.

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Post #: 1730

RE: Bid Thee Return - 2/19/2011 9:55:15 PM

princep01

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No turn since 2/16? I see Q-Ball busily commenting on WitE. It is a shame this game got dropped after so much effort. I'm sure Q-Ball will not suffer from want of an opponent, but that opponent will never be me.

Canoe, I did not like your game strategy and commented from time to time to that effect. However, you were very true to the strategy and it seems to have worked, even if it worked against an opponent that became disinterested at the critical moment. I really thought he had a chance for a 4-1 by waiting until the 4th quarter of 42 to launch multiple offensives against key point garnering locales. First, I thought he would really make a big effort in India to isolate and take Bombay, then move north if he could. The idea was to grab as many point cities as possible and hold as many as possible until January 1 43. Your build up would have stopped the drive north, but, with naval help, he probably could have worn Bombay down. Second, I expected simulataneous moves against Midway and maybe New Zealand/Taihti/other places he had not taken. Midway would have been dangerous w/o KB there to counter possible PacFleet intervention. Third, all the moves other than Bombay were to draw your CVs into play. A victory against the CVs and he may have gotten his 4-1.

HAving never read his AAR, I do not know his intentions other than the obvious move against India as the locus for grabbing a 4-1.

You did a really good job in force conservation and redeploying to India. As his interest waned however, the Allied offensive has taken on the look of Russian sailors crushing the skulls of baby seals on Arctic ice. Do you look like a Russian sailor or clubber of baby seals:)?

Were I you, I would not beg for turns or send any sort of recriminating note....simply send an e-mail that says GAME OVER and start a new one. Good luck in whatever you do. It has been a pleasure to read your AAR. You really did a good job of telling us your intentions and creating a open atmosphere for discussing the game and its issues.

Many thanks.

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Post #: 1731

RE: Bid Thee Return - 2/20/2011 2:55:41 AM

desicat

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PrinceP01 - I disagree, CR has too much time and energy invested to just call it off. The invasion of Sumatra has been almost two years in the planning and I for one would like to see it.

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Post #: 1732

RE: Bid Thee Return - 2/20/2011 8:59:21 PM

Canoerebel

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12/1/42 and 12/2/42

India: Intel reports 1st IJA Division at Calcutta. I don't know where it came from, as for the past few weeks recon has shown just 3k IJ troops there, and recon was always reporting little stuff like AA or engineers. Well, I have about 1500 AV crossing into Calcutta tomorrow. They aren't prepped for that target, so they'll take some lumps. But I don't mind having a plump target to beat up on for awhile. (1st Div. was treated roughly as it withdrew down the coast road to Bombay about six weeks ago). Still no supplies at Madras or Trivandrum, which is hampering my recon efforts a bit.

Wake Island: Quiet at the moment. I may try another diliberate attack in a day or two, trying for that elusive and most unlikely inside straight.

Oz: Allied carriers are due south of Tasmania, moving west. Transports are about to arrive at the port SE of Perth (Esperance?) to load the Exmouth invasion force. Still quiet up at Daly Waters.

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Post #: 1733

RE: Bid Thee Return - 2/21/2011 2:13:24 PM

Canoerebel

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12/3/42

Calcutta: About 1600 AV cross the river and assault the IJ garrison at Calcutta, which includes a nearly full-strength 1st Division. To my pleasant surprise, the attack comes off at 1:1, drops forts to two, and inflicts about equal casualties. The combat report shows that the IJ division got a "minus" for mode, so apparently Brad didn't reset to combat. I'm really not sure what this division is doing here, since it will be exposed to nonstop attacks from the air. Calcutta is a major urban hex, so taking it won't be easy, but it's days as an IJ base are numbered.

Wake: The Allied units here are short of supply, but have recovered disruption and fatigue. I'll try a near-hopeless deliberate attack tomorrow. The Hiryu/Junyo TF showed up and finished off xAK California, which had taken damage from mines at Wake.

Oz: Allied troops are buzzing all around Daly Waters, trying to isolate the hex. If I succeed, I may move part of my army on to Katherine, to see if I can accomplish the same thing. I might as well see what I can get away with while Brad doesn't seem to be paying attention around these parts. Down south, I think D-Day for the Exmouth invasion might be less than two weeks. I need to use my carrier for protection from the big IJ airbases at Corunna Downs and Port Headland, but I don't mean for this to be a major operation. I'll post picket ships to the north to warn of any approach by IJ carriers.

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Post #: 1734

RE: Bid Thee Return - 2/21/2011 2:51:56 PM

Canoerebel

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12/4/42

Wake Island: S-31 took out a Japanese AK carrying troops, but the rest of the convoy made it to the island and unloaded part of an SNLF. The following Allied deliberate attack came off at 1:3, knocked out a fair number of IJ troops, but did really bad things to the American units. Thus endenth the Wake Island campaign for all intents and purposes.

Oz: Still no signs of IJ activity around Daly Waters/Katherine.

India: The Allies are having great difficulty in getting supplies forward to Madras and Trivandrum. I've reajusted supply draw buttons to try to "entice" some to reach these bases. I need supply at Trivandrum to permit air recon of North Male Island. If it's vacant, I can take it by para-assault. That, in turn, will permit the Allies to recon Addu Atoll for a similar operation (or invasion if necessary). I also need North Male before I will load troops aboard transports for Ceylon.

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Post #: 1735

RE: Bid Thee Return - 2/22/2011 6:36:37 AM

JeffroK

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Maybe in your next mail with QBall you could ask about WITE.

I think he has some problems with the Russians at the moment

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Post #: 1736

RE: Bid Thee Return - 2/22/2011 3:25:04 PM

Canoerebel

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I just read part of Q-Ball's WitE AAR. Sounds like he was doing very well but is now getting chewed up by severe winter conditions. He's done very well, and it may be that winter conditions are too severe in the game and need tweaking.

I thought about preparing a new graphic in keeping with the "Home Alone" and "Somwhere in Time" graphics I did previously (to illustrate the fact that Brad left me behind when he went off to WitE land). I could use Colonel Klink threatening to send Schultz to the Russian front, or the Monty Python sketch "not much fun in Stalingrad," but I don't think they would come across as humorous at the moment. I'm sure Brad is pulling out his hair dealing with his situation, so I don't want to do something that might come across as taunting him.

But he has once again disppeared from view in this game.

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Post #: 1737

RE: Bid Thee Return - 2/22/2011 4:43:52 PM

Bullwinkle58

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Been reading several AARs over there and that first winter's blizzards are certainly being gamed already. GG has a perennial problem in his games, same thing we see here with pre-set Allied production. Too close adherence to history and the game enters a different kind of twilight zone where the history is pre-known and gamed. Don't do the history, especially when it's critical to the historical record as that first winter was to slowing the Germans, and the history fan-boys howl.

I thiink for WitE to have long-term legs a random weather model is needed as an option. Else after a few games the thing is on rails. As I said, already players are doing very non-historic things weeks in advance because they know the blizzards are coming and how hard. The Nazis had no such Tarot cards.

Imagine the feelings here if "Halsey's Typhoon" were programmed into the EXE and the Allied player was going to lose X destroyers on that pre-determined date. And if the Allied player knew that, every game, on December 7th, as did the Japanese. Where, what, how much. Yuck.

< Message edited by Bullwinkle58 -- 2/22/2011 4:45:41 PM >

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Post #: 1738

RE: Bid Thee Return - 2/22/2011 4:54:30 PM

Canoerebel

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Yeah, if a game models historical forces and capabilities very closely, but if one side is able to avoid major strategic or tactical mistakes, but the other isn't, you may have some serious play balance problems. It sounds like the Russian side in WitE can avoid the uber mistakes made by Russia in 1941, but that Germany can't avoid the uber effects of the winter blizzards...so that German will start the 1942 offensive in much worse shape than it did historically.

Fortunately, this being a Matrix product, the designers are probably all over it making tweaks to iron out problems like this. But how much can they do?

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Post #: 1739

RE: Bid Thee Return - 2/22/2011 4:58:30 PM

witpqs

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In addition to that being a Russian winter, the bigger problem was the lack of preparation on the part of the German forces. Should that be modeled, as I'm sure it is? I think it's a critical part of the whole deal so it has to be factored in. Heck, even a year later in Stalingrad they had warm weather uniforms! From what I've read, that first winter of the German invasion of the SU was not at all unusually severe. The problem for the Germans was that preparations were based on the political assessment that the war would already be decided by then.

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Post #: 1740