RE: Axis forces not attacking

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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Close Combat Series >> Close Combat: Last Stand Arnhem >> RE: Axis forces not attacking

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RE: Axis forces not attacking - 7/11/2010 12:31:44 PM

Shadrach

Posts: 727
Joined: 10/16/2001
From: Oslo, Norway
Status: offline

Hi just want to confirm I've gotten the same situation on several operations, and like others say its especially noticable on Arnhem.

I even think I got a CTD in relation to this, seems the AI was very confused and just crashed the game. Unfortunately I have no save of it but next time it happens I will.

Hope you can sort this out guys

(in reply to Rift)

Post #: 31

RE: Axis forces not attacking - 7/11/2010 12:36:30 PM

Erik Rutins

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From: Vermont, USA
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Anyone who has a definite instance of the AI not attacking, turn after turn, please upload a save file in the Tech Support forum for us.

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(in reply to Rift)

Post #: 32

RE: Axis forces not attacking - 7/11/2010 4:55:07 PM

RD Oddball

Posts: 4836
Joined: 2/10/2007
Status: offline

Thanks Erik.

Also I'd add to ALL that we need to know if you're talking strategic AI or tactical AI. We've had varying reports for both. Some saying the Strategic AI is attacking and some saying it's not attacking. Also some saying the tactical AI (AI that controls units on battle maps) being both too aggressive and not aggressive enough. The more specifics you can offer the better. What movements you were attempting, unit or battlegroup involved, anything related. If you don't know what could or couldn't be related please ask.

(in reply to Erik Rutins)

Post #: 33

RE: Axis forces not attacking - 7/11/2010 5:20:05 PM

SteveMcClaire

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Joined: 11/19/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rift

I got to the beginning of 22nd on the Arnhem Campaign and the axis forces have stopped attacking...

In this specific case it looks like the AI has decided it is too weak to attack. You've got 6 battle groups, all in relatively good shape, around Arnhem. The Germans have 2 battle groups.

That said we are investigating the larger issue and will be making fixes as necessary. Thanks for your feedback.

Steve

(in reply to Rift)

Post #: 34

RE: Axis forces not attacking - 7/11/2010 10:16:09 PM

CSO_Talorgan

Posts: 768
Joined: 3/10/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tejszd

Axis BO BG's can not move

These are the new static garrison units?

If they are pushed off their "home map" i.e. the place they are supposed to be garrisoning, do they become mobile?

(in reply to Tejszd)

Post #: 35

RE: Axis forces not attacking - 7/11/2010 10:22:58 PM

Andrew Williams

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From: Australia
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No, they disband

(in reply to CSO_Talorgan)

Post #: 36

RE: Axis forces not attacking - 7/12/2010 6:43:35 AM

dudalb_slith

Posts: 168
Joined: 6/20/2002
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I also tried the Last Stand Arnhem and the Germans will not attack on the stategic map. This is a real problem

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Post #: 37

RE: Axis forces not attacking - 7/12/2010 3:36:08 PM

RD Oddball

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Joined: 2/10/2007
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We're looking at it. We've not all been seeing the same results. In an ongoing GC I have the German AI has been attacking just fine. But as I said it's being looked at.

(in reply to dudalb_slith)

Post #: 38

RE: Axis forces not attacking - 7/12/2010 4:22:37 PM

mavraamides

Posts: 447
Joined: 4/1/2005
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I've been playing 1st Airborne, North of the Rhine as Allies and so far, the Germans have been attacking me on the strat map a lot. In fact, if anything, they've sent a few missions to the bridge that bordered on suicide. I have 15 veteran units in that sector with mortar and mg support units and they are often trying to attack with much smaller BG's made up of recruits. And getting wiped out.

So I'm not seeing a lack of aggression at least in this scenario. Maybe the problem is scenario specific. Someone who is having these problems should try this scenario and see if they still see the problem. It could help the dev's isolate the issue.

(in reply to RD Oddball)

Post #: 39

RE: Axis forces not attacking - 7/12/2010 5:34:30 PM

RD Oddball

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quote:

ORIGINAL: GordianKnot

In fact, if anything, they've sent a few missions to the bridge that bordered on suicide.

Same here. I've had German battlegroups with one unit in the roster attacking me. Kind of the exact opposite of what everyone else is reporting. I'd say that is equally as bad. Perhaps the extremes of the scale is what's out of whack here? Move the ends toward the middle? Anyway it's on the docket.

(in reply to mavraamides)

Post #: 40

RE: Axis forces not attacking - 7/12/2010 6:06:04 PM

Scotters1

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Joined: 4/19/2006
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Playing in the grand campaign as the Germans several times in the tactical battles the Allied AI has not attacked even when it has had overwhelming force, and some victory points were not even protected. At the Southern most point where 30th corp attacks, the first battle I got smashed. In the second and third battles on that same map I had 2 units holding up in the very north of the map, and the allied A.I did nothing. No shots were fired! In the second battle one of the victory points was left unguarded, and it was never taken. After the battle I lost that victory point automatically. During the 3rd turn nothing happened at all. So my two weak units are holding off the entire 30th corp, who won't even attack on the tactical map.

(in reply to RD Oddball)

Post #: 41

RE: Axis forces not attacking - 7/12/2010 6:49:07 PM

mavraamides

Posts: 447
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quote:

ORIGINAL: RD_Oddball

quote:

ORIGINAL: GordianKnot

In fact, if anything, they've sent a few missions to the bridge that bordered on suicide.

Same here. I've had German battlegroups with one unit in the roster attacking me. Kind of the exact opposite of what everyone else is reporting. I'd say that is equally as bad. Perhaps the extremes of the scale is what's out of whack here? Move the ends toward the middle? Anyway it's on the docket.

Yeah, I agree. Just recently, I had a sniper and a squad of 4 riflemen try to take back the bridge.

It was ugly. Completely wiped them out in less than a minute without even a scratch. Where's the fun in that? Still, I see this all as minor tweaking. I think overall, this game has been my favorite CC yet.

However, I have not experienced any of the Armor pathing issues as I haven't had any armor!

(in reply to RD Oddball)

Post #: 42

RE: Axis forces not attacking - 7/13/2010 12:35:54 AM

dudalb_slith

Posts: 168
Joined: 6/20/2002
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I would say take a good look at the AI for the specific Operation Last Stand Arnhem,since that seems to be where the Axis AI is unagressive.
I :"ran" through the campiagn three times and as long as Frost's British Para batallion stays in the Arnhem Bridge area where they begin the Axis will not attack,though the Axis wins when time runs out because they control more areas then the Brits.Something is wrong when in this scenario the only way to get the Germans to react is for the Brits to move and attack into another area, although that is not a good move for the Brits. For the Germans to sit on their butt,make no attempt to retake the bridge, and let the clock run out makes no sense historically.

< Message edited by dudalb -- 7/13/2010 12:39:07 AM >

(in reply to mavraamides)

Post #: 43

RE: Axis forces not attacking - 7/13/2010 12:45:37 AM

Andrew Williams

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From: Australia
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It's called a seige... Frost will capitulate as XXX corps won't be within cooee.

i think this is basically down to poor scenario design for this operation... I've made a few user made scenarios to test and if the AI thinks it's winning in CC terms (which it is in this case) then it will not risk an attack that may result in a loss.

(in reply to dudalb_slith)

Post #: 44

RE: Axis forces not attacking - 7/13/2010 3:25:07 AM

Tejszd

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Joined: 11/17/2007
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There does seem to be a bug in the strat AI.

Having said that this may not be as clear a situation as people think;

- Should the AI attack if it is winning the Battle/Operation/Campaign with the VL's or maps it already holds? Would a person H2H?
- Should the AI attack if its BG weaker than the one it has to attack? Would a person H2H?
- Should the AI even know if it is weaker or stronger?

(in reply to Andrew Williams)

Post #: 45

RE: Axis forces not attacking - 7/13/2010 3:42:46 AM

Andrew Williams

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From: Australia
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Does the AI know it is weaker or stonger or can it like the human player surmise... if so by what mechanism?

(in reply to Tejszd)

Post #: 46

RE: Axis forces not attacking - 7/13/2010 4:32:43 AM

jomni

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That's the problem with these strat maps. Hope things get ironed out.
Old CC2's campaign system avoided this problem by having linked maps.
No strategic movement except for the abstraced XXX Corps progress.

So it looks like CC2 campaign system is still the best until they sort this problem out.

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Post #: 47

RE: Axis forces not attacking - 7/14/2010 3:05:51 AM

dudalb_slith

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Andrew Williams

It's called a seige... Frost will capitulate as XXX corps won't be within cooee.

i think this is basically down to poor scenario design for this operation... I've made a few user made scenarios to test and if the AI thinks it's winning in CC terms (which it is in this case) then it will not risk an attack that may result in a loss.

Then the Victory Conditions for the Last Stand Operation needs to be rewrittine so that the sector in which Arnhem Bridge is located is REQUIRED for an Axis Victory.

(in reply to Andrew Williams)

Post #: 48

RE: Axis forces not attacking - 7/15/2010 10:25:37 PM

CSO_Talorgan

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quote:

ORIGINAL: dudalb

Then the Victory Conditions for the Last Stand Operation needs to be rewritten so that the sector in which Arnhem Bridge is located is REQUIRED for an Axis Victory.

How about kranking the points value of the bridge itself?

(in reply to dudalb_slith)

Post #: 49

RE: Axis forces not attacking - 7/16/2010 12:57:02 AM

chiroho

Posts: 33
Joined: 7/9/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Scotters1976

Playing in the grand campaign as the Germans several times in the tactical battles the Allied AI has not attacked even when it has had overwhelming force, and some victory points were not even protected. At the Southern most point where 30th corp attacks, the first battle I got smashed. In the second and third battles on that same map I had 2 units holding up in the very north of the map, and the allied A.I did nothing. No shots were fired! In the second battle one of the victory points was left unguarded, and it was never taken. After the battle I lost that victory point automatically. During the 3rd turn nothing happened at all. So my two weak units are holding off the entire 30th corp, who won't even attack on the tactical map.

I've had a similar situation on the Valkenswaard map (the first one which XXX Corps attacks). Basically what I found was that the Allied AI would send only a couple of infantry squads up the map so long as I had the StuG and the PaK 40. As soon as I lost both, mostly by chance, they were storming up the map like there was no tomorrow - even though they had always held an overwhelming advantage in force numbers and quality.

It seems like, based on my experience on other maps, that the AI will attack aggressively if it thinks it can win, but will often sit tight and do nothing if there is even a small chance of losing - regardless of whether it has a numerical advantage. I've been able to whittle down Allied groups of 12 or more squads with German battle groups of 6 or 8 poor quality squads by fending off the initial charge of the Light Brigade (and they do seem to come straight down the middle) which cost a lot of Allied units, and then gradually taking all the remaining victory points because the AI sat and did nothing.

(in reply to Scotters1)

Post #: 50