Illinois Yankee in the Showa Emperor's Court (Q-Ball v Canoe)

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Illinois Yankee in the Showa Emperor's Court (Q-Ball v ... - 7/10/2010 3:58:11 AM

Q-Ball

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This AAR is a companion to Canoerebel's "Here come the Rebels" AAR, so my title is a play off that. I am playing JAPAN, serving the Showa Emperor, and guiding us to further victories.

At Canoe's request, we are playing Scenario #2. This gives the Empire extra goodies, mostly in the form of better pilots and more air units, but with a few extra escort craft thrown in. Should be fun!

I am late getting this AAR started, as I have been very busy, but here it goes.

< Message edited by Q-Ball -- 7/15/2010 3:27:33 PM >

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RE: Illinois Yankee in Showa Court (Q-Ball v Canoe) - 7/10/2010 7:28:21 AM

Alfred

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Q-Ball,

I haven't looked at Scenario 2 and therefore have no personal view, but in Nemo's AAR, bklooste in post #444 has outlined the reasons why he does not like it (from a Japanese POV it seems). Do you think this scenario only superficially makes Japan stronger, in that obtaining an early auto victory is easier, but in reality it makes the Japanese position much worse if an early auto victory is not attained.

The follow up question is how will victory in this match be determined? On VPs or by the unconditional surrender of one side?

Alfred

(in reply to Q-Ball)

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RE: Illinois Yankee in Showa Court (Q-Ball v Canoe) - 7/10/2010 1:22:15 PM

Q-Ball

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RE: Scenario #2, Dan preferred it, so I gave it a shot. I don't think it HURTS Japan over the long-haul, it only helps. You do get some boosts early-on, which should make auto-victory more possible, though still pretty tough.

The extras:
*Japanese pilots start more experienced, and replacements are more experienced
*IJNAF and IJAAF both start with some extra units, and more planes in the replacement pool
*IJA gets some extra Brigades in 1942
*A few planes have faster R&D dates, most notably the TOJO, (6-42)
*IJN gets a few more escort craft, mostly DMS and Es
*IJN CVEs now have organic airgroups

There are no extra CVs or anything beyond that; the core Navy is about the same.

Miller and Canoerebel played the same scenario in that AAR.

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RE: Illinois Yankee in Showa Court (Q-Ball v Canoe) - 7/10/2010 1:40:54 PM

Q-Ball

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OVERVIEW:

CANOEREBEL AS OPPONENT: Dan is a good player, and very creative, so this should be a good challenge. In particular, I have to be conscious of a few traits:
1. He will use the USN CVs early to raid at the edges
2. He understands some of the vulnerable spots of the Empire (Kuriles, SRA), and always attacks them
3. He pretty much doesn't care about losing transports and support ships, and will sacrifice 100s to get an invasion ashore
4. In game with Miller, he hasn't focused much on Pilot training, which I think is one reason he continues to have trouble with the Japanese Air (Miller does train extensively, and so do I)

Given this, what is my strategy?

PHASE 1 OBJECTIVES: The Japanese strategy in Phase 1 is pretty much laid out for you: Conquer the SRA, push out the perimeter, invade Burma, grab what you can before the Allies get too strong. This phase is roughly the first 3 months of the war.

I am a big believer in planning ahead and moving fast; I always look to have transports loading the rear with supplies and support troops ready for things I haven't taken yet. The Japanese early landing advantage is huge, you have to take advantage of it by picking up troops and moving fast. The disadvantage is that, in all likelihood, I am going to lose some transports here and there. That's OK.

By the end of December, I hope to have cleared Ambon/Timor, most of Borneo, and be landing on Port Moresby. Java should be invaded in late January, and most of the SRA closed out by no later than February 15th, freeing up huge numbers of IJA troops for Phase 2 Objectives. What are those?

PHASE 2: PUSHING FOR AUTO VICTORY: I haven't determined yet my phase-2 objectives, and don't really need to until January. I plan to land on the Northern Australia coast, but that is really more defensive perimeter stuff than a knock-out blow.

I think there are 3 choices for Auto-Victory: India, Australia, or Hawaii, and I'm not sure Hawaii has enough points for Auto-Victory. I am probably inclined to Australia or India.

India has much to recommend it; Dan has really done well in Southeast Asia in his games with Miller, and destroying a bunch of Indian units would help blunt that. On the other hand, India is kind of like Russia, the Allies can retreat and consume the IJA with garrison requirements. Still, alot of points in India.

Taking Australia would be a great knockout. Taking ALL of OZ is doable, unlike taking ALL of India, which isn't. One downside is that destroying Australian Militia units doesn't really buy anything in the long-run, since the Aussies don't have the replacements to use them all offensively anyway. Decisions, decisions.

More debate to follow on this, first a re-cap of the first day's actions.....

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RE: Illinois Yankee in Showa Court (Q-Ball v Canoe) - 7/10/2010 3:44:22 PM

Miller

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Good luck against our common enemy.

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RE: Illinois Yankee in Showa Court (Q-Ball v Canoe) - 7/10/2010 3:58:36 PM

bklooste

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Scenarion 2 is a good one for auto victory the Pilots i believe really hurt you in 44 to 45 and will destroy your HI stcokpile.

If deciding between Australia and India the best option is to use 2 divs from the extra army your given in scenario 2 and take Ceylon EARLY before Java anyway. This will give you good recon of india and Force him to defend India and Australia and make transfers between them more difficult. You can then choose to invade which ever one he is weakest at.

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RE: Illinois Yankee in Showa Court (Q-Ball v Canoe) - 7/10/2010 4:04:51 PM

Cuttlefish

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Let me be among the first to wish you a good game and good luck! This should be a game worth watching. Canoerebel's willingness to disregard casualties can probably be used to your advantage in a quest for auto-victory if you can anticipate or out-guess him. If he gets the drop on you, though, you know you can count on him to take full advantage of any openings he creates.

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RE: Illinois Yankee in Showa Court (Q-Ball v Canoe) - 7/10/2010 7:43:43 PM

Q-Ball

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Thanks everyone for the comments! Miller, I could probably use some hints...

Combat Report, Dec 7 - 11, 1941:

I have been very busy IRL, so haven't had the time to update since the opening gun. I will put together a few highlights:

Pearl Harbor: The first strike sank nothing confirmed, so I decided right away that I would go back for seconds and thirds.

Allied surface TFs found KB 2 days in a row (!), despite my moving KB every day. I had to suffer through long combat replays, and close calls, including USS ST LOUIS engaging AKAGI from 3000 yards! Overall, KB dished dodged major bullets, only a single DD having moderate damage. They sank 2 DDs in surface action, and heavily damaged ST. LOUIS in a day strike.

Meanwhile, 3 days of strikes wrecked havoc at Pearl. The final tally was either 5 or 6 BBs sunk; it might be 6, in the final strike we sank 3 out of the 5 BBs attacked, which means 3 must have sunk previously.

My air losses weren't bad until the 3rd day, I lost about 30 planes. I might have kept attacking, except that I was about out of torpedos.

That was a good Pearl Harbor result for the Empire.

Malaya: We had a HR allowing TFs formed up to move first turn for Allies. Canoerebel didn't know that applied to ships in port, so he didn't move Force Z, and they had their date with destiny in the South China Sea. OOOPS!

We didn't get REPULSE in round 1, but I-156 found her 3 days later and put 4 torps in her off Lingga Roads, sinking her.

I thought about the Mersing gambit, but held off, mostly because I assumed Force Z would be in existance. I should have tried it; I would be closer to the goal now.

Instead, we landed at the usual places, Singora, Patani, and Khota, took Khota, and are marching down the peninsula.

I am concerned about a mass evacuation to Palembang, so I have been sweeping Singapore every day, and will commence bombing, as well as at Palembang. That won't prevent him from using flying boats, but worth a shot. We have already shot down over 50 Buffalos over Singers, not sure why he is contesting the skies over it.

Borneo: We have landed at and taken Kuching and Miri; airbases are established at each. I am about to unload an air HQ at Kuching, which will allow Betties to roam north of Java.

Jolo: Japanese forces are unloading at Jolo, it will fall tommorow, the 11th.

Ambon: An invasion fleet is approaching Ambon; I have observed Allied cruisers moving to intercept, so we are putting our cruisers in front to force action, then landing. We should take it easily by the 15th, and start prepping for Timor.

Phillipines: We landed at Vigan and Apparri turn one, setting up airbases at both. Allied PTs have buzzed around though, encouraging my transports to keep withdrawing; I set them to Absolute, and ordered the main landing at Lingayen for tommorow. The 16th Division will land tommorow at Altimonaoan, and threaten Manila from the South.

Allied Counterstrikes: The Hong Kong DDs and CA HOUSTON have all found random TFs that they found on purpose or by accident. I have lost about 5 transports, 1 AV, and 5 DMSs to these pests. Ouch!

Ship Roundup: I have sunk many ships leaving exposed ports, but nothing to write home about, other than a few Dutch tankers near Singapore, which was an odd place for them.

ALLIED CARRIERS: The question I always have to ask: Where are the Carriers?

I thought there was an outside chance they would try to hit the Wake Invasion; I sent a couple PBs to the east of Wake to act as a tripwire. I think I am in the clear now here, they would have shown up by now if he was going to attempt it.

With KB hanging around Pearl, I am guessing they went south, maybe to Pago Pago or the New Hebrides. I have to be cognizant that they can pop up in the Marshalls now anytime, and in about a week, can pop up in the Solomons. Indian Ocean isn't a possibility until at least January. Regardless, I have my own CV plans...

I am splitting off Car Div 5 (Soryu, Hiryu), for operations in the southern SRA. The rest of KB (Akagi, Kaga, Sho, Zui), will cover the Port Moresby landings, and be in the Solomons. That is the initial dispositions.

< Message edited by Q-Ball -- 7/10/2010 7:49:53 PM >

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RE: Illinois Yankee in Showa Court (Q-Ball v Canoe) - 7/10/2010 7:59:06 PM

Alfred

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Regarding your concern about an Allied evacuation from Malaya to Palembang, I would strongly suggest, if not already done, you read Nemo's AAR which has a useful discussion on the subject. Whilst there is much to commend such an Allied evacuation, it does open up some quite valuable opportunities for Japan.

Alfred

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RE: Illinois Yankee in Showa Court (Q-Ball v Canoe) - 7/10/2010 10:03:20 PM

Chickenboy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

Regarding your concern about an Allied evacuation from Malaya to Palembang, I would strongly suggest, if not already done, you read Nemo's AAR which has a useful discussion on the subject. Whilst there is much to commend such an Allied evacuation, it does open up some quite valuable opportunities for Japan.

Alfred

Hi Q-ball,

Good luck in your new game. I'm rooting for liquidation! Liquidate! Liquidate!

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RE: Illinois Yankee in Showa Court (Q-Ball v Canoe) - 7/11/2010 1:48:21 AM

Tone

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Good luck mister Q-Ball will be following your story.

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Both the victor
and the vanquished are
but drops of dew,
but bolts of lightning -
thus should we view the world.
�uchi Yoshitaka
1507-1551

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RE: Illinois Yankee in Showa Court (Q-Ball v Canoe) - 7/11/2010 11:55:06 AM

Miller

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Dan will not have his CVs sit in port, if he thinks there is an oportunity to use them and get away again unmolested he will, however playing one day turns it will be harder for him to gain surprise.

One other thing, in our previous WITP encounter and the current AE game he has completly ignored the Cenpac area as an avenue of advance.....but he knows you know he is fond of the DEI or Kuriles route.........

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RE: Illinois Yankee in Showa Court (Q-Ball v Canoe) - 7/11/2010 1:47:11 PM

Q-Ball

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Combat Report, Dec 12, 1941:

I haven't posted any maps yet, because everyone is familiar with the opening game set-ups; as soon as things change, I'll start posting.

Malaya/Borneo: Kuching and Khota will have Air HQs tommorow, which will help my air efforts. The Tarakan invasion fleet is approaching Jolo, where it will rendevous with IJN surface support, and head to Tarakan. Another TF is loading at Samah, with forces for Balikpapan. Another TF is heading to Singkawang, with yet another loading at Cam Ranh shortly for Billiton. I realize I have to extend myself a bit to move like this, and Dan might take advantage; but there is also much to gain from speed, and losing a few ships isn't a big deal.

If all this works, I should have most of the DEI under a Betty umbrella by the end of the month. This is my main initial objective, as that will chase Allied surface ships away.

Ambon: We unload at Ambon tommorow; a convoy at Balebebop (or whatever it's called) is loading for Koepang. An Air HQ is on it's way to this area; I loaded that at Takao on Dec 8.

Hollandia: A small force secured this airstrip on the 12th.

Kaveing: Fell on the 11th. An invasion fleet for Rabaul is just about at Truk, along with NAGATO and MUTSU. Until I know exactly where the Allied CVs are, I probably need KB to cover the Rabaul landing, which will hold it up a couple days; KB is still 4-5 days from Truk, where we really need to pick up TORPS and replace aircraft.

Wake Is: I landed 2 SNLF on it instead of one; the first 1-1 attack dropped the forts, but today's attack was 1-2 and sat there. We are a bit stalled; I don't dare try a bombardment. CL KASII was mixed with the invasion TF, and took some damage; another round could sink her. Hopefully rest and attack will be enough, or I'll have to make a bombing run from Kwaj.

Phillipines: The "abosolute" orders worked, and we are FINALLY getting ashore at Lingayen; most of the 48th Division plus the 65th Bde and tanks have landed, and should push aside the single PI Div there tommorow. The CD guns though sank a transport, hats off.

I also landed the 16th Division at Mauban, southeast of Manila. Dan appears to be pulling back on Clark so far, his strategy will become clearer as I approach Manila.

Sub Wars: Our subs sank 2 Dutch Minelayers today. I hope they were FULL.......

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RE: Illinois Yankee in Showa Court (Q-Ball v Canoe) - 7/13/2010 2:32:21 AM

Chickenboy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

Combat Report, Dec 12, 1941:

I haven't posted any maps yet, because everyone is familiar with the opening game set-ups; as soon as things change, I'll start posting.

Malaya/Borneo: Kuching and Khota will have Air HQs tommorow, which will help my air efforts. The Tarakan invasion fleet is approaching Jolo, where it will rendevous with IJN surface support, and head to Tarakan. Another TF is loading at Samah, with forces for Balikpapan. Another TF is heading to Singkawang, with yet another loading at Cam Ranh shortly for Billiton. I realize I have to extend myself a bit to move like this, and Dan might take advantage; but there is also much to gain from speed, and losing a few ships isn't a big deal.

If all this works, I should have most of the DEI under a Betty umbrella by the end of the month. This is my main initial objective, as that will chase Allied surface ships away.

Ambon: We unload at Ambon tommorow; a convoy at Balebebop (or whatever it's called) is loading for Koepang. An Air HQ is on it's way to this area; I loaded that at Takao on Dec 8.

Hollandia: A small force secured this airstrip on the 12th.

Kaveing: Fell on the 11th. An invasion fleet for Rabaul is just about at Truk, along with NAGATO and MUTSU. Until I know exactly where the Allied CVs are, I probably need KB to cover the Rabaul landing, which will hold it up a couple days; KB is still 4-5 days from Truk, where we really need to pick up TORPS and replace aircraft.

Wake Is: I landed 2 SNLF on it instead of one; the first 1-1 attack dropped the forts, but today's attack was 1-2 and sat there. We are a bit stalled; I don't dare try a bombardment. CL KASII was mixed with the invasion TF, and took some damage; another round could sink her. Hopefully rest and attack will be enough, or I'll have to make a bombing run from Kwaj.

Phillipines: The "abosolute" orders worked, and we are FINALLY getting ashore at Lingayen; most of the 48th Division plus the 65th Bde and tanks have landed, and should push aside the single PI Div there tommorow. The CD guns though sank a transport, hats off.

I also landed the 16th Division at Mauban, southeast of Manila. Dan appears to be pulling back on Clark so far, his strategy will become clearer as I approach Manila.

Sub Wars: Our subs sank 2 Dutch Minelayers today. I hope they were FULL.......

A 'liquidate them!' tithe.

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RE: Illinois Yankee in Showa Court (Q-Ball v Canoe) - 7/14/2010 4:54:19 PM

Q-Ball

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Combat Report, Dec 13-15, 1941:

The last 3 days has not featured a ton of combat; a few sub sinkings, lots of Japanese bombing, nothing extreme. Some highlights:

Malaya: My forces are advancing; Georgetown should fall tommorow, and we are advancing down the track from Khota. IG Division is remaining on the trains and waiting for the tracks to clear. I don't anticipate much resistance before Singapore, which is probably the way to defend Malaya. A large force is at Mersing.

Borneo: Singkawang falls. Nells from Kuching sink an AP south of Singapore, announcing the availability of IJN Torpedos at Kuching. That will prevent serious attempts to get shipping into Singapore.

The Tarakan invasion force should land tommorow, and Balikpapan is already on transports and should land in a week or so, with an AIR HQ to follow that shortly.

Southern DEI: Ambon falls, and the garrison surrenders, including a Dutch bomber unit. Another TF is sailing for Lautem, to establish an air-search base.

Solomons: We are awaiting KB support to move on Rabaul. I hope to land at Rabaul, and simultaneously sweep the southern Solomons with KB; my hope is that if Dan reacts to the invasion at Rabaul, he will instaad find KB short of his goal. That will end badly for the Allies! (I hope).....

Tarawa: I am exposed at Tarawa, hopefully he doesn't hit that convoy

Wake: I didn't pay attention to the supply levels; that was the problem. I am unloading all the supplies now, and should get us back on track. Stupid!

Phillipines: The British MTBs hit an empty transport convoy off Vigan, sinking two. I had alot of DDs and TBs in the area, but somehow they all missed. Good hit, that one.

Otherwise, landings are going fine. See map below:

Attachment (1)

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RE: Illinois Yankee in Showa Court (Q-Ball v Canoe) - 7/15/2010 1:52:41 PM

Q-Ball

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Combat Report, Dec 16th, 1941:

Today we traded merchant sinkings; I lost an AMC unloading supplies at Wake (which has been a hash job), and a sub got xAP Neptuna off Midway. Other than that, it appears we will have action tommorow....

Ambon/Lautem: Allied cruisers are moving toward my invasion fleet at Lautem. I had not anticipated them there; we do have 2 CA and DDs along as escort, not sure if that's enough to beat the attackers back. This also interrupts my unloading at Ambon, we upped anchor and left. I need more surface ships down there, and more are on the way. I expect action off Lautem tonight.

Tarakan: Dutch PTs are moving in position to intercept my fleet; we have finished unloads though, so the surface ships will stay and tangle with the Dutch, everyone else is leaving. We attack tommorow.

Another fleet awaits with units loaded for Balikpapan.

SW Pac: IJN Units are gathering at Truk, to bring in the Rabaul invasion. With the Australian Cruisers, and possibly CVs, this operation requires suppport; we will have it shortly, as soon as KB finishes refuel and torps, which is in two days

Allied Moves so far: So far Dan has gotten his licks in, sinking nearly 20 transports. Part of that is my aggressive play, and the fact that I don't care much about losing transports. The ships I didn't want to lose are the AV, AMC, and 5 x DMS; those are useful hulls.

I have no idea where the Allied Carriers are, (well, the 2 I know to be at sea); I don't think they are returning to Pearl, and Miller is right: Dan won't park them in port, but look for opportunities to use them. That could mean toasting my Tarawa ships, or it could mean interfering with Rabaul. I hope the latter, because I am planning a surprise if he does.......

Attachment (1)

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RE: Illinois Yankee in Showa Court (Q-Ball v Canoe) - 7/16/2010 12:16:45 PM

Q-Ball

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Combat Report, Dec 17-18, 1941:

Action off Lautem: I predicted action off Lautem, and got it, though not exactly what I was looking for. 2 Separate Allied DD TF's, made up of a mish-mash of old DDs, attacked. The first TF ran into my cruiser TF and was rudely handled, with 3 DDs going down for almost no damage. (One each of an RN, USN, and HMNS; that's ABDA for you). The other TF, though, got past the cruisers and hit the transports, sinking 6 of them, and shooting up CS MIZUHO pretty good, though she will live.

It would be nice if my cruisers would protect the transports a little better, but I'll probably take advantage of that later in the game, so can't complain.

I have lost quite a few transports in the DEI to surface ships. So far I have NOT lost any land units though on them, and I haven't lost a warship. I can afford transport losses.

Phillipines: It appears Dan is pulling everyone back on Clark. Manila will fall shortly then, and we'll begin the siege of Clark. I have been sweeping every day, so most of the USAAFFE is gone, but a few fighters still contest the skies. I think the PT boats are heading south, they left Manila harbor; makes sense, no torp source once Manila falls.

Borneo: Tarakan falls, and Balikpapan is next.

SE Area Fleet: I am gathering forces at Truk, and was about to refuel KB, when I spotted a surface TF 9 hexes out of Truk. A raid, apparently. Dan will probably turn back, but if he doesn't, there are alot of warships waiting at Truk that should annihilate that TF pretty easily.

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RE: Illinois Yankee in Showa Court (Q-Ball v Canoe) - 7/16/2010 1:50:46 PM

Q-Ball

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Phase 2 Objectives:

I am looking for input from the gallery on Phase-2 Objectives. I don't have to commit quite yet, but I would like to start planning, by prepping all the troops in Manchuria for various targets, and "buy" them as I refine the plans.

I anticipate clearing the SRA and beginning Phase 2 sometime in March. I really want to execute a primary landing in March, before the initial IJA bonus expires. (I think it expires 3/31, can someone confirm that?)

The primary goal is Auto-Victory. Someone can help on where the most points are scored, but I think that's India. Secondary Goal: Cause enough losses that the Allies have more trouble coming back, in either ground troops, aircraft, or warships.

I think I basically have 3 options: Hawaii, India, and Australia.

Hawaii: Hawaii has much to recommend it. Taking Hawaii is the one most likely to draw out the US Fleet for battle. It would also be problematic for an advance back against the Empire, or would at least rule out a Central Pacific advance. I barely used it in my game vs. Cuttlefish, so it is possible to strike back without it, just not in the Marshalls IMO.

There are a couple downsides. First and foremost, Pearl Harbor is a very very tough nut, and can withstand a long siege. Establishing control of the seas around Hawaii can be done, but even with 10 Divisions, Pearl is not easy. Second, the fuel burn to get everyone out there and sustain operations would be tremendous, and that would hurt in the long run.

So, we'll consider that, but I am worried about Pearl, and Fuel Burn.

India: India has several attractions. First, any damage you inflict on the Brits and Indians hurts, as replacement rates for many devices is low. Dan has launched major invasions of SE Asia in both games against Miller, so invading India would knock that back a bit. There are alot of points in India, and I would gain some industry. The fuel burn would not be very high, and I could invade India, and still employ Combined Fleet in the Pacific, using small ground forces to take islands, for the purpose of drawing out the USN.

The downside? It's indefensible for one, and for the other, Dan could react by just retreating, allowing space and garrison requirements to swallow up the IJA. It has the potential of being like Japan's Russia. It is also, IMO, impossible to completely take.

I like India, though, much to recommend it.

Australia: Taking Australia is tempting. I do think it's possible to take all of Australia; probably the easiest of the 3 to completely take. (Not that it's easy). Getting ashore is a piece of cake, as the RAAF is very weak in early 1942, and defenses are very spread out. Like the British Army, bleeding the Aussies has long-term benefits, as they have low replacement rates. WIth an occupied Australia, the Allies will have greatly reduced options for an axis of advance.

The downside? First, you put into play alot of Australian units that will otherwise sit at home the entire war. This will also trigger additional ground reinforcements. We are also likely to grind to a halt, as we encounter US and AIF units, and Australia would take a big land commitment. I would also need to be very conscious of a landing in the rear, and the potential to have a very large part of the IJA cut-off.

The most likely outcome is that I would overrun Northern, Western, and NE Australia, but probably be stopped at the gates of Sydney. I would probably end up withdrawing at some point, as a major army in New South Wales is very vulnerable to a landing further up the East Coast. (though, if I have Perth, I can always rail out in that direction).

Decisions decisions.....

< Message edited by Q-Ball -- 7/16/2010 3:02:07 PM >

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RE: Illinois Yankee in Showa Court (Q-Ball v Canoe) - 7/16/2010 2:50:33 PM

DTurtle

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Nemo has repeatedly advocated taking several bases near Hawaii in order to suppress that base. It would achieve almost as much as taking Pearl itself, while requiring quite a lot less in force commitments, allowing you to do this without severely constraining you in your other options.

PZB tried taking out all of Australia in his AAR against Andy Mac. Looking at that AAR (which I think you already have) can tell you quite a lot about the forces you would face.

As an alternative to taking all of Australia, what about completely isolating it by taking as much of the island chains east of Australia as possible, maybe taking/attacking New Zealand, etc?

I personally would find an invasion of India as the most interesting option, as I haven't seen one so far in any of the AARs I've read in WITP:AE. As the invasion of India would not need a complete dedication of your naval assets, this would enable you to defend/counter-attack against any advances in the Pacific. Also, I wonder if it would be possible to completely clean up China if you take out any and all sources of support from outside, or are the garrison requirements simply too high?

However, to correctly answer your question of what to do, you first have to ask yourself (or tell us): What do you want to achieve with your offensives? Resources? Enough points for an Auto-victory? Simply space to buy time?

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Post #: 19

RE: Illinois Yankee in Showa Court (Q-Ball v Canoe) - 7/16/2010 3:10:46 PM

Q-Ball

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DTurtle: Good thoughts, I amended the post to include primary objectives. The Hawaii-isolation move is not a bad idea, especially in this mod where I will have the Zero units to continually sweep Pearl, thereby establishing air control and putting Betty umbrella over the islands. 1 Division is probably enough to cause trouble there.....

Combat Report, Dec 19, 1941:

Someone owes the Emperor an apology: I saw an Allied TF heading toward Truk, so made some preparations, including:

1. Set 54 Bettys on Nav Attack, 10% search
2. Cleared all transports; put 2 TF in harbor. 1 of 4 CL and 4 DD, the other of 2 BB, 4 CA, and 4 DD.
3. Stationed KB, south of Truk to sink any survivors in the morning.

So, how do you think this turned out?

CL PERTH and DD VOYAGER entered Truk harbor, tangling ONLY with the CL TF. KINU, KISO, and a DD were SUNK, only sinking VOYAGER in return! PERTH took a single shell hit. The other TF didn't engage. Shameful!

In the morning? 2 VALs from KB spotted Perth, and one reported a hit. No strikes launched; zilch, nada, nothing. (Yes, they were set to Nav attack).

If the whole war goes like that, this is going to be a short one...hats off to PERTH.

Other News: 2 SNLF are not enough; I am going to have to reinforce Wake. I botched this operation, primarily by attacking once without sufficient supplies. Bad!

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RE: Illinois Yankee in Showa Court (Q-Ball v Canoe) - 7/16/2010 4:15:11 PM

CapAndGown

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I would say the two most important pieces of real estate for Japan are the DEI and the Home Islands, plus the LOC between them. The LOC can be attacked either through Burma or CentPac/New Guinea. The Home Islands can be attacked through the Aleutians/Kuriles. And the DEI can be attacked from Australia and Ceylon. Operations in the Kuriles/Aleutians seem difficult for the allies and can be readily countered because they are near your home base while far from his. The CentPac route does not require, but would greatly benefit from possession of Pearl Harbor. The CentPac route would also take longer and Canoe seems to be an impatient fellow. Instead, a more decisive and direct route to strangling the empire would seem to be his preference. This points to an offensive against towards the DEI from either Ceylon or Australia.

I think Australia is key here. Imagine a map without Australia. The defense of the empire would be sooooo much easier if there were no Australia. But of course there it is.

So, if you can't sink the continent, you could at least make it harder for the allies to use. Basically, this means limiting the delivery of supply, fuel, aircraft, and troops to the continent. I don't think you can take out Australia completely, but you could deprive it, I think, of the resources needed to make it a launching pad for an offensive against the DEI/New Guinea. This would require cutting the LOC between Australia and the rest of the world. On the east that means at least Noumea and probably New Zealand and Fiji. On the west that means basically Perth. Although there is a large stretch of ocean south of Perth through which the allies can deliver supply to Melbourne, if you own Perth you can patrol those waters to maintain a blockade. As someone pointed out, if you can capture Kalgoolie, then western Australia basically becomes an island; land forces there become less of a problem once they can no longer rail in. It would be relatively easy to supply Perth from the DEI, so maintaining a naval blockade from that base should not be too hard.

I think that taking Perth would give strategic depth to your defense of the DEI and hinder an allied build up aimed at that critical sector. Taking Noumea/Fiji/New Zealand could also lead to that allies spending a portion of late 42/early 43 trying to re-establish an LOC to Australia. It would allow you to concentrate land and air forces in the western DEI to defend again an offensive coming out of India while the KB is tasked with defending the eastern side of the empire in the Pacific.

< Message edited by cap_and_gown -- 7/16/2010 4:16:27 PM >

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Post #: 21

RE: Illinois Yankee in Showa Court (Q-Ball v Canoe) - 7/16/2010 8:31:17 PM

Capt. Harlock

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quote:

Nemo has repeatedly advocated taking several bases near Hawaii in order to suppress that base. It would achieve almost as much as taking Pearl itself, while requiring quite a lot less in force commitments, allowing you to do this without severely constraining you in your other options.

Nemo has indeed, and I've debated him over it. IMHO, it has to be done before early June. After that, the availability of B-24D's makes it more likely that Pearl will suppress the Japanese airbases rather than the other way around. At this stage of the war, neither the IJAAF nor the IJNAF have fighters that are really effective against the American 4E's.

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RE: Illinois Yankee in Showa Court (Q-Ball v Canoe) - 7/16/2010 8:51:53 PM

Q-Ball

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Capt. Harlock

quote:

Nemo has repeatedly advocated taking several bases near Hawaii in order to suppress that base. It would achieve almost as much as taking Pearl itself, while requiring quite a lot less in force commitments, allowing you to do this without severely constraining you in your other options.

Nemo has indeed, and I've debated him over it. IMHO, it has to be done before early June. After that, the availability of B-24D's makes it more likely that Pearl will suppress the Japanese airbases rather than the other way around. At this stage of the war, neither the IJAAF nor the IJNAF have fighters that are really effective against the American 4E's.

RE: Hawaii, keeping Pearl suppressed is a tall order. It's a big airbase with a huge pile of engineers, and even reinforcement engineers that a appear automatically and don't need to be convoyed in.

Establishing airbases around Pearl is very doable. The trick is: Then what? It would take round the clock bombing by ALOT of bombers to keep the airstrip closed. If you stop bombing for just a couple days, the Allies can repair the runway enough to fly off. Getting fighers there isn't a huge deal; they can ferry from CVs. Once the strip is repaired moderately, B-24s can then quash your airbases at will. If you load them up with fighters to counter, that takes away the bombers you need to hit Pearl, and the Bombers you need on Nav Attack to keep the USN away.

I would rather invest those resources in a move on OZ.

Still considering options, but I think I am going either INDIA or OZ. Capngown suggested alternative of isolating OZ, which also has merit.

Decisions......

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RE: Illinois Yankee in Showa Court (Q-Ball v Canoe) - 7/16/2010 10:03:25 PM

Grfin Zeppelin

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Well for India speaks also: capturing Ceylon as a target of opportunity, the possibility to attrit the British on ground and air with the IJA, a good place to chicken out if things go wrong and last you have to defend Burma anyway so why not doing that at Imphal if things go wrong instead of uh Mandalay.
+ you can take northern Australia anyway and very likely the Perth area too if you are fast.

Hawaii might be possible but its imo to much of a risk. You can cripple yourself there if things go horrible wrong.

In Australia its hard to stand compact for you, one has to spread out to much and as you said its easily possible to land behind you. In India one would have to do that through the Bengalen gulf wich is realy a risk if you hold Ceylon. Infact if he does that he might give you the opportunity of a carrier battle under IJAF cover.

And last but not least, its kewl to have India.One can only imagine how Japan holds the world under cultural hostage if Bollywood is a joint Indian/Japanese thing O.O

< Message edited by Gr�fin Zeppelin -- 7/16/2010 10:11:06 PM >

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RE: Illinois Yankee in Showa Court (Q-Ball v Canoe) - 7/17/2010 12:24:25 AM

witpqs

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In case you and CR haven't discussed it, check on the British carriers. Apparently in '44 and or '45 there are two CV's and one CVL that arrive at Colombo and/or Trincomalee. If you capture those bases they are "destroyed while building", even though they are actually in Europe until they arrive. If you haven't fixed the scenario files you might want to consider it when thinking about taking Ceylon.

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RE: Illinois Yankee in Showa Court (Q-Ball v Canoe) - 7/17/2010 10:21:06 PM

Q-Ball

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Combat Report, Dec 20-23, 1941:

PLANS: Good thoughts everyone....I am torn between India and OZ, both have alot to recommend it. I am probably leaning toward OZ, but I probably don't need to final final commit until January.

Malaya: We are marching down the peninsula. Should have invaded Mersing, but oh well.

Borneo/Java: Billiton is almost a size-1 airbase, and can then aircover a landing on Java. Not that I am too concerned with that, as the Dutch can't hit squat. I haven't killed off the Vildebeests, so I do need to account for those. The Stringbags, though, were lost of Kuching.

I have about 400 AV loaded, and heading toward a landing on Java at Kalidjati. This is not enough to clear the island, but I want to split the defenses in two between Soerbaya and Batavia, and establish an air umbrella over Java. That will prevent reinforcements. 400 AV is also way too much for the Dutch to kick out.

Balikpapan: Should fall on the 24th; 3 Nav Gd units are firmly ashore.

Koepang: Landings tommorow

Rabaul: First attack dropped the forts; we need to pause a day or two, and will try again. That should clear it.

INTEL ALERT!: I-168 fired 4 torpedos at ENTERPRISE two hexes off Sydney. They missed, but that firmly establishes the location of the 2 USN CVs that start in the Pacific. Although she missed ENTERPRISE, in another attack she did sink an AO in the same hex; I suppose that TF was refueling.

Dan knows KB is in the Bismarck Sea, so he is not going near the Rabaul landings. Car Div 5, (SORYU, HIRYU), is moving toward Ambon to join with Baby KB, and support landings in Northern OZ. With 2 CV and 2 CVL, I will have enough to handle 2 USN CVs; not Baby KB, more like "KB Jr".

China: Oh yeah, China. I have not mentioned this yet! I am not a big fan of land combat in China, but it's there, so you have to attend to it.

It took a week to shuffle garrisons and round up enough mobile AV to launch an offensive, about 4 Divisions. Another 2 divisions I rounded up for Wenchow. The initial objectives are mostly to tidy up the line: Clear the central plain between Loyang and Nanning, and clear out the Northeast (by compass, Southeast on map) corner.

Dan is evacuating the Wenchow corner on his own; those units are all marching toward Changsha apparently.

He did resist on the Central Plain, and the defenders at Chengchow were rudely handled. A single IJA Division south of town easily routed 4 Chinese Corps plus an HQ, a much larger force. After seeing that, I think he is fleeing open terrain; all units are moving backward.

From experience, the Chinese are very easy to push around in the open, but in rough terrain they toughen up. I plan to at least get to the rough and build an MLR, and maybe continue an offensive somewhere on the map. In the long-run, I just hope to make China stable, and use it for reinforcements.

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RE: Illinois Yankee in Showa Court (Q-Ball v Canoe) - 7/17/2010 10:56:47 PM

Nemo121

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China, can you resource bomb? Turn their asset, their numbers, into their biggest deficit. That solution has an appealing elegance about it.

Hmm, you seem to be treating Hawaii and Oz and India as though they a operations requiring a similar investment. I think that while Oz and India are somewhat analogous Hawaii is a completely different issue.

Hawaii needs a very different force structure than either Oz or India and requires very little land forces and only a modest investment in terms of shipping and naval aviation. If you can find 500AV and divert KB for some time you can take e necessary bases around Hawaii in order to neutralize it. Now one other thing people continue to [image][/image]get wrong, despite the fact I've tried to clear it up repeatedly is that neutralizing Hawaii isn't the same as giving it 99 airfield and port damage. You can neutralize it by making it impossible for the Allies to base shipping or meaningful numbers and types of planes from there.

How can you do that cheaply? Simple, take bases around Hawaii and then
A. Sweep his fighters out of the sky. Each fighter you kill takes 12 tons of supplies to replace. 80 fighters costs him 1,000 tons of supples to replace.
B. Let his bombers hit you and just wear them down over time with fighters and FlAK. Each four engined bomber burns a LOT of supplies every sortie and costs 50 tons of supplies to replace or upgrade to.
C. Hit him with your bombers.

Many will look at this and go for the conventional, " but early war IJA bombers suck." I would respond that that's beside the point since their "military effectiveness isn't why you are using them. Think laterally about WHAT makes PEARL powerful..... What is the one thing without which it's guns and planes etc are all worthless? Yes, supplies.

So you fly the bombers in at an altitude designed to ensure e maximum number of FlAK guns fire at you but also high enough that that fire isn't that effective.Everyone can figure out that altitude for themselves. The bombers will make a few holes but the majority of their impact will be in forcing the AAA to fire LOTS of ammo. You don't even need large raids for this. 20 bombers is more than enou to get the AAA to fire a lot of ammo.

After a few months e Allied airframe pools will be exhausted and all of that AAA, which the enemy cannot shut off, will be running through their supplies at a massive rate.

By the time the USNJ is strong enough to intervene PEARL won't be able to upgrade empty squadrons to fighters as it won't be able to afford wasting hundreds of tons of supplies like that.

There are always vils advocates who will argue that if the Allies do x or y or. Whatever this will fail but, he'll, it's your job to innovate and overcome. In every game where I have wanted Pearl impotent in order to prevents it's use by the USAAF I have rendered it so. Why? I didn't waste time trying to close the airfield etc, except in the initial phase to cover landings. I focussed on it's true weakness, the lack of supply creation.

As to the rest... Oz is a dead end. You can neutralize Oz and Darwin by taking two minor bases without all of e bother and risk of invading Darwin and without leaving your forces open to the strong Australian army in overland counter-attack This can be done with no more than 300 to 400 AV in such a way that Darwin will be neutralized until a major Allied amphibious assault can be organized on one of these bases.

Those two, cheap gambits then leave the way open for India. I know the conventional wisdom is that India is inviolable because of the reinforcements which arrive hen you advance beyond a certain line but those reinforcements don't arrive in India. A proper strategic plan to take India can thus be designed to prevent them being a factor in it's capture. I've looked into it and India is most definitely doable - even with just the SRA troops although that would be relatively tough. Best thing is if the other two stratagems are employed the entire IJAAF force would be available to support the IJA in India while Netties prevent the Allied navies doing anything around Hawaii and Oz.

I believe the above is the most efficient way to achieve the greatest gain. Whatever you do don't let yourself be seduced by Oz. That's a deathtrap for Japan and any doesn't require much skill from the Allied land CO. India at least allows the better land CO to take advantage of a skill differential in a way which isn't possible in Oz.

Just my two cents really but Oz is a death trap..... And even if the Allies were utterly incompetent and let you take it.... So what? Off-map movement makes it irrelevant to the shifting of forces between fonts and ere are FAR cheaper ways to protect the southern DEI.

< Message edited by Nemo121 -- 7/17/2010 10:57:43 PM >

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RE: Illinois Yankee in Showa Court (Q-Ball v Canoe) - 7/17/2010 11:04:37 PM

crsutton

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Well, we really have not seen a lot of AARs where Japan goes after India. So it would be interesting from that standpoint. I would love to see how a fight pays out there. However, most Japanese players seem to want to get into OZ. I think this is the conservative but correct move. Aside from some extra production there is really nothing to gain in India. The war will be fought and won by the Americans in the Pacific. And holding N. Oz serves you (Japan) better than holding India. As an Allied player, I don't think it is wise for Japan to move that far into OZ. Just take the North Coast and penetrate to Daily Waters or maybe Tennant Creek (but that is difficult and dangerous. It take a tremendous amount to time to mount an attack overland in OZ to eject the Japanese. The supply path is poor and once the Allies push you out of Darwin, he will have a lot of troops in the wrong position-except for a push in the DEI ( which is why you take N. Oz in the first place).

I don't think all of OZ can be taken-especially vs Canoerebel but it is pretty obvious now that Canoerebel loves the DEI route.

You can take Hawaii, win the battle but it might cost you the war. Forget it.

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RE: Illinois Yankee in Showa Court (Q-Ball v Canoe) - 7/18/2010 7:40:56 AM

FatR

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IIRC, in AE PH does create supplies, unless you commit enough airforce to bomb its light industry to dust.

As about the gains of invading India, a success there partially removes the dependence of Japanese economy on sea communications, because India has large amounts of fuel, resources and industry on a single landmass. As HI points are HI points, no matter where you produce them, they'll feed your weapon production even if Americans take everything up to Formosa.

< Message edited by FatR -- 7/18/2010 7:45:15 AM >

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RE: Illinois Yankee in Showa Court (Q-Ball v Canoe) - 7/18/2010 7:49:11 AM

terje439

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Would not another thing to consider be what sorts of points you can score on the different approaches since you are going for auto-victory?

Australia
-bases captured
-planes shot down
-some shipping
-ground units destroyed

PH
-bases captured (probably less than the other two but not sure since I have not looked up the values atm)
-alot of planes shot down
-quite a bit of shipping + maybe repairing BBs although these can be hard + will he deploy his US CVs in its defence?
-fewer ground units destroyed

India/Ceylon
-bases captured
-middle value (between Oz and PH) in planes shot down
-alot of shipping + will he deploy his RN CVs?
-ground units destroyed

And then another question for me would be; what if I do not achieve auto victory anyway?

Australia
-then you wait for the inevitable Allied counterattack which can arrive on either coast (although more likely at the east coast)
-you will have alot of units tied down defending Oz which cannot be used elsewhere

PH
-so you lose those bases and the units stationed there, but you will have reduced PH and gained alot of time, and he will need his CVs to take out your positions if you have alot of aerial units here

India/Ceylon
-alot of units tied down in defence not being usable elsewhere
-It is just as big for the allies, they too need AVs to garrison the areas, and there are alot of railroads allowing you (since you control the bases and the rail lines) to head for Burma in a quite rapid pace.

Anyway, I think I would go for PH or India/Ceylon, but that is just me.

Terje

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