RE: Illinois Yankee in Showa Court (Q-Ball v Canoe)

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RE: Illinois Yankee in Showa Court (Q-Ball v Canoe) - 10/8/2010 8:32:40 PM

Q-Ball

Posts: 7336
Joined: 6/25/2002
From: Chicago, Illinois
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Mike, good to hear from you.

RE: PPs, many have already been spent on units from Manchukuo! I have purchased the 1st,10th, and 12th infantry divisions, plus a couple tank units and high-exp. infantry Regts (Note to JFBs: Check out the 90th Infantry Regt as an early buy; 90 exp, and it's cheap. I landed it on New Caledonia in January).

At 60 PPs a turn, I can buy a Division about every 30 days or so, so 4+ months in, I have some buys.

RE: Drawing out the US Fleet......not sure what would be guaranteed to. NOTHING maybe....Australia can take care of itself on the ground, and NZ would trigger reinforcements. Hawaii is likely heavily fortified. I have enough to overrun half the Pacific, but why? Not sure it's worth it.

I have a few units prepping for Pacific Islands, but for the most part I have poured everything into India. Now, I am really at a crossroads: Keep going there, or start a new line of attack?

ALFRED: Good thoughts from you, except invading the US West Coast? Are you mad?

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(in reply to Mike Solli)

Post #: 301

RE: Illinois Yankee in Showa Court (Q-Ball v Canoe) - 10/10/2010 4:07:53 PM

Q-Ball

Posts: 7336
Joined: 6/25/2002
From: Chicago, Illinois
Status: offline

Combat Report, May 21, 1942:

Goa: I am landing more stuff at Goa. This time, I have CAP over my ships, so the RAF Bombers sortie from Bombay had a rude reception. The HURRIS didn't do badly, shooting down 5 of my ZEROS, but we shot down 18 Allied planes, including 4 HUDSONS, 6 HURRIS, 4 BUFFS, and 3 AVG fighters.

The fact that he is still using Buffalos tells me that the RAF is short on fighter planes. I know he is short on bombers, even with no losses the RAF scrounges for bombers even into 1943; he's lost over 100 though, especially BLENHEIMS.

Sub Wars: There are many Allied subs around CEYLON; pretty much one in every hex.

I got an xAK off Karachi, which is about the 6th or 7th there, plus another off Australia. I am not really thrilled with my sub results though; lots of xAKs, not much else.

China Update: I have not updated China. I have not pursued the Chinese into rough ground toward Sian, so we are just digging in and looking at 30 Chinese units in the woods between Loyang and Nanyang.

Around Changsha, we occupy rough ground at all the exit points, with 20 Chinese units in the city, and another 25 down the rail, this city is stoutly held.

NANNING fell today, with 4000 Chinese casualties, and of course hardly any IJA. We are going to attack Liuyang or whatever that city is in clear terrain nearby, to try and cut the rail line. This attack will take awhile to develop, as I am not prepped.

Not sure what everyone's experience is post-Patch 4, but with the increased garrison requirements in China, I am having difficulty getting major offensives going. Dan has been smart enough not to resist in CLEAR terrain; when he has, his troops were slaughtered. As soon as they get to rough terrain, they are alot tougher.

Map: Posting a NE India Map, first in while

Attachment (1)

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Post #: 302

RE: Illinois Yankee in Showa Court (Q-Ball v Canoe) - 10/10/2010 5:08:14 PM

Chickenboy

Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline

Q-ball,

For the nickel and dime 5-20 garrison requirements, other players have split up some of their units on board xAKLs and individually loaded / moved them to their fragmentary new charge? This may help with the sheer number of new small picayune garrisons required.

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Post #: 303

RE: Illinois Yankee in Showa Court (Q-Ball v Canoe) - 10/10/2010 5:55:35 PM

Mike Solli

Posts: 15792
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

Q-ball,

For the nickel and dime 5-20 garrison requirements, other players have split up some of�their units on board xAKLs and individually loaded / moved them to their fragmentary new charge?� This may help with the sheer number of new small picayune garrisons required.

That's a clever idea. Never thought of that. I'm going to do that.

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Created by the amazing Dixie

(in reply to Chickenboy)

Post #: 304

RE: Illinois Yankee in Showa Court (Q-Ball v Canoe) - 10/11/2010 5:26:12 AM

erstad

Posts: 1944
Joined: 8/3/2004
From: Midwest USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

Q-ball,

For the nickel and dime 5-20 garrison requirements, other players have split up some of�their units on board xAKLs and individually loaded / moved them to their fragmentary new charge?� This may help with the sheer number of new small picayune garrisons required.

That's a clever idea. Never thought of that. I'm going to do that.

If you're going to do that, it's easier and more controlled to use air transport, particularly since you control the rest percentage so you can have only a couple transports flying.

(in reply to Mike Solli)

Post #: 305

RE: Illinois Yankee in Showa Court (Q-Ball v Canoe) - 10/11/2010 1:11:44 PM

Alfred

Posts: 6685
Joined: 9/28/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

ALFRED: Good thoughts from you, except invading the US West Coast? Are you mad?

Not necessarily mad

To dismiss ab initio an invasion of the American continent post a successful invasion of Pearl Harbor without the benefit of some sort of staff study to assess the actual �facts on the ground�, would in my view constitute a better marker to diagnosing madness.

So, in order to show why my comments regarding the West Coast should not be summarily dismissed as the ramblings of a mad man,

here are a few additional observations. Also bear in mind that my comments are intended to show how the momentum of a successful invasion of Pearl Harbor can be maintained. I am not arguing that invading Hawaii and thence the West Coast is superior to a full invasion of Australia, merely that your aversion to invading Hawaii is justified if you limit yourself to that limited (and expensive) operation and are not prepared to maximise your opportunities by completing the task with a move towards the West Coast.

Assumptions

(A) The sine qua non is a successful conquest of Pearl Harbor
(B) As a result of (A), Japan has command of the sea between Hawaii and the West Coast
(C) Your opponent has adopted throughout the course of 1942, the usual Allied practice of shipping from the West Coast to the Pacific islands and Australia/New Zealand, all non restricted LCUs together with all the restricted LCUs he could spend PPs to attach to unrestricted commands
(D) Just like no one expected the Spanish Inquisition in Monty Python, he will not contemplate, at least until too late, an invasion of the West Coast and therefore its defences, both in terms of units (land and air) and fortification levels will be wanting
(E) The earliest a Japanese invasion could occur is late November 1942/early December 1942
(F) There is no need to capture and maintain for long much of the West Coast, just enough to allow the by then few VPs required for a Japanese auto victory to be acquired by strategic bombing and occupation of a few bases.

Factors Assisting a Japanese Invasion of the West Coast

(1) The Allied reinforcement trigger is a Japanese invasion south of Vancouver. This means, for example, you could capture the isolated Canadian base of Coal Harbour which is only 9 hexes from Seattle. You could strategic bomb Seattle with almost no risk of facing an Allied counter invasion of Coal Harbour. Other isolated Canadian and Alaskan bases could also be captured without triggering Allied reinforcements.
(2) Allied air units in theatre will almost certainly be equipped with obsolete aircraft, probably with few airframes, and with sub 50 exp/70 air skill pilots on training.
(3) The Japanese:Allied VP ratio is favourable; the Canadian coastal bases are 10:1, the USA coastal bases which fall within the reinforcement trigger line are 20:1, with the Big 4 (Seattle, San Francisco, Los Angeles and San Diego) being 100:1. That represents a lot of VPs potentially available to Japan, even without taking into account the VPs resulting from destruction of Allied units and strategic bombing.
(4) An invasion of the West Coast represents an existential threat to the Allies. With the exception of a mirror Allied invasion of Honshu, which is totally out of the question in this timeframe, you can totally ignore any Allied offensive elsewhere. Consequently you need not fear the loss of any Japanese base in the SRA and accordingly defensive garrisons are not required. Even mandatory garrison requirements in non economic useful bases can be left unmet, thereby releasing forces for the invasion.
(5) You will be operating on shorter, interior lines than the Allies. All their 1942 forward deployment of units and logistics will be nullified. The Japanese schwerpunkt will be stronger than the deployable Allied defence (see following section �Allied West Coast Defence: Land�)

Allied West Coast Defence: Sea

A successful invasion of Pearl Harbor will maul the Allied navy. To date your opponent has relied upon an extreme Sir Robin, totally refusing any meaningful naval combat. This has allowed him to retain intact his carrier force and is probably viewed as a great achievement. I know you have lamented about the lack of opportunities to destroy the Allied fleet. What has been overlooked is that this Allied Sir Robin imposes a heavy cost to the Allied player in opportunity cost terms. Specifically, by not engaging in combat, the Allied navy has not increased its ship crew experience nor more importantly, increased the combat experience/skills of its pilots. Combined with the non attrition of the IJN (ships and pilots), this means that the non combat experienced Allied carriers (also pre Essex class and Hellcat) remain at a significant qualitative (and numerical too) disadvantage. The net result should be secure Japanese SLOC from Hawaii to West Coast.

Allied West Coast Defence: Land

I fully expect the West Coast to be seriously under prepared for a Japanese invasion. To give an indication of what you might encounter (refer back to my assumption (C) above) consider the following tables. For the purposes of this preliminary discussion I have limited myself to only infantry and armour units.

Table 1. 7 December 1941 Infantry + Armour OOB on the West Coast

Command Unit Name Assault Value PP Cost Withdrawal Date

West Coast 3 Inf Div, 287 AV, N/A, 1 Sept 1942
West Coast 7 Mot Inf Div, 399 AV, N/A, 1 Feb 1943
West Coast 41 Inf Div, 230 AV, 1198 PP, N/A
West Coast 11 Cav (Hrse) Rgt, 52 AV, N/A, 786 days
Pacific Fleet 34 Inf Rgt, 115 AV, N/A, N/A
West Coast 53 (Sep) Inf Rgt, 79 AV, 305 PP, 1029 days
West Coast 87 Mtn Rgt, 29 AV, 113 PP, 724 days
West Coast 115 Cav (H&M) Rgt, 69 AV, N/A, 907 days
West Coast 159 Mot Inf Rgt, 79 AV, 305 PP, 968 days
West Coast 160 Inf Rgt , 91 AV, 472 PP, N/A
West Coast 185 Inf Rgt, 88 AV, 467 PP, N/A
West Coast 2 Mar Rgt, 38 AV, 231 PP, N/A
Pacific Fleet 8 Mar Rgt, 116 AV, N/A, N/A
West Coast 1/153 Inf Bn, 33 AV, 122 PP, 815 days
West Coast 2 USMC Para Bn, 19 AV, 35 PP, 815 days
West Coast 752 Tank Bn, 38 AV, N/A, 1 Aug 1942
West Coast 756 Tank Bn, 34 AV, N/A, 1 Jan 1943
West Coast 757 Tank Bn, 34 AV, N/A, 1 Mar 1943

By 1 December 1942, the two units attached to Pacific Fleet HQ will have been redeployed, probably to Pearl Harbor initially. Also expected to have been redeployed overseas by this date are:

41 Inf Div
53 (Sep) Inf Rgt
87 Mtn Rgt
159 Mot Inf Rgt
160 Inf Rgt
185 Inf Rgt
2 Mar Rgt
1/153 Inf Bn
2 USMC Para Bn

The total full PP cost to reattach these units (i.e. not using the 75% discount method) is 3248. At a daily accumulation rate of 50 PPs, approximately 2 months of PPs would be expended. Clearly this is very achievable even at the full retail cost.
That leaves us with only 6 units totalling about 590 AV still attached permanently to West Coast HQ by 1 December 1942. Note the scheduled departure from the OOB of 7 Mot Inf Div and 756 Tank Bn by 1 Feb 1943. This represents a substantial weakening of the Allied capacity to stave off an auto VP loss in early 1943.

The next table lists the scheduled West Coast Command infantry and armour units which arrive by 1 December 1942. Some of these units will probably be transferred to unrestricted commands and have been shipped overseas by the time of the Japanese invasion. To err on the conservative side however, I will treat them all as still stationed on the West Coast and factor in only those newly arriving units already attached to unrestricted HQs as having been shipped overseas by 1 December 1942.

Table 2. West Coast HQ Infantry + Armour arriving by 1 December 1942

Unit Name, Assault Value, Withdrawal Date
5 Arm Div, 99 AV, 24 Mar 1943
6 Arm Div, 99 AV, N/A
13 Arm Div, 99 AV, N/A
27 Inf Div, 204 AV, N/A
35 Inf Div, 390 AV, 1 Jan 1943
43 Inf Div, 390 AV, N/A
44 Inf Div, 390 AV, N/A
91 Inf Div, 81 AV, N/A
104 Inf Div, 81 AV, N/A
107 Cav (H&M) Rgt, 91 AV, N/A
108 Inf Rgt , 88 AV, N/A
125 Inf Rgt, 115 AV, N/A
138 (Sep) Inf Rgt, 78 AV, N/A
140 Inf Rgt , 115 AV, N/A
144 Inf Rgt, 115 AV, 1 Jan 1943
164 Inf Rgt, 112 AV, N/A
3 Mar Raider Bn, 40 AV, N/A
2 USMC Tank Bn, 86 AV, N/A

The total Assault Value of these units is: 2673. Many of these units arrive significantly under strength but it is likely that priority to filling out the TOE will be given to units overseas. Again note the units scheduled to be withdrawn by 1 January 1943. Also, even if all these units remain stationed on the West Coast, they have to be spread out amongst many coastal bases which almost certainly have neglected the construction of fortification levels. Nor will they be stationed on the Channel Islands or on the remote Canadian/Alaskan bases which lie outside the reinforcement trigger zone.

I would totally concur with the view that Japan lacks the assets to remain in both India and the American continent for long in 1943 if Allied reinforcements are triggered in either hemisphere. The length of stay would be slightly extended if no Allied reinforcements are triggered. But that is not the objective. The objective from day 1 of this war has been to secure a Japanese auto victory in the short term. My comments should be seen in the light of that short term objective. If you were aiming for the long term, then other considerations, such as security of raw materials, would come to the fore.

Alfred

(in reply to Q-Ball)

Post #: 306

RE: Illinois Yankee in Showa Court (Q-Ball v Canoe) - 10/11/2010 2:24:45 PM

Bullwinkle58

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Alfred: interesting analysis. BUT, it reminds me a bit of the old joke (OK, maybe only old in the US) about the recipe for Hasenpfeffer. "Step 1: Get thee to the field to acquire one Hase."

Taking PH first is Step 1. After that the "recipe" is trivial . . .

If all/most of the free or bought-out US LCUs have been pre-staged to PH, as is pretty normal I think, it's a tough nut. By the dates you name the Fort levels at PH should be 8-9 as well.

If you can accomplish this feat, and destroy the US Navy too, then you might have a shot. But I would caution that your plans to use Coal Harbor et al look easy, but for a reason. They are small, underdeveloped bases which take a long time to unload a barge, let alone a real TF. I wouldn't expect a lot of multi-engined bombing from them in 1942.

Also, a core assumption seems to be that the Allied player doesn't fortify the WC. Why not? I play the AI, and in the first week of the game I turn on fort-building at least at SF, Seattle, and LA. Supplies are infinite, and I have lots and lots and lots of restricted engineers and support standing around that first year. To expect the WC major port hexes to be unfortified is to me a wildly optimistic assumption.

As for having to pay PPs to "recall" bought-out LCUs, I don't understand this. They would have to run the gauntlet to get back to CONUS, but why wouldn't a division attached to Pacific HQ fight just fine in California? Probably some mechanic I don't know or have forgotten, but this part of your plan seems to be an Allied roadblock that wouldn't exist.

< Message edited by Bullwinkle58 -- 10/11/2010 2:31:32 PM >

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The Moose

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Post #: 307

RE: Illinois Yankee in Showa Court (Q-Ball v Canoe) - 10/11/2010 6:46:28 PM

Alfred

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

Alfred: interesting analysis. BUT, it reminds me a bit of the old joke (OK, maybe only old in the US) about the recipe for Hasenpfeffer. "Step 1: Get thee to the field to acquire one Hase."

Taking PH first is Step 1. After that the "recipe" is trivial . . .

If all/most of the free or bought-out US LCUs have been pre-staged to PH, as is pretty normal I think, it's a tough nut. By the dates you name the Fort levels at PH should be 8-9 as well.

If you can accomplish this feat, and destroy the US Navy too, then you might have a shot. But I would caution that your plans to use Coal Harbor et al look easy, but for a reason. They are small, underdeveloped bases which take a long time to unload a barge, let alone a real TF. I wouldn't expect a lot of multi-engined bombing from them in 1942.

Also, a core assumption seems to be that the Allied player doesn't fortify the WC. Why not? I play the AI, and in the first week of the game I turn on fort-building at least at SF, Seattle, and LA. Supplies are infinite, and I have lots and lots and lots of restricted engineers and support standing around that first year. To expect the WC major port hexes to be unfortified is to me a wildly optimistic assumption.

As for having to pay PPs to "recall" bought-out LCUs, I don't understand this. They would have to run the gauntlet to get back to CONUS, but why wouldn't a division attached to Pacific HQ fight just fine in California? Probably some mechanic I don't know or have forgotten, but this part of your plan seems to be an Allied roadblock that wouldn't exist.

Sorry Bullwinkle, I obviously wasn't as clear in my exposition as I thought I had been (and there I was thinking I was preparing a submission for the Joint Chiefs of Staff which by its very lucidity, would sweep them off their feet[:)...or well better next time]). Hopefully I will make a better fist of an explanation this time.

First, to provide some background. In post #271, Q-Ball rationalised that he had 7 options for Phase III operations. Generally speaking, he was very dismissive of the value of conducting operations against Hawaii. In post #284, I gave some preliminary comments on the 7 options listed in post #271. With regard to Hawaii, I stated that it could be justified provided he was prepared to follow up with operations against the West Coast and made some observations why West Coast were not pure fantasy. In post #297, following up on Q-Ball's post #271, I expanded at greater length on future Australian and Indian operations. My last post (#306) focussed on the West Coast and was both a continuation of the debate opened by post #271 and an attempt to convince Q-Ball that his observation made in post #301 was too hasty.

Phew...now that the preliminaries are out of the way, time to address Bullwinkle's concerns.

1. Totally agree about the Hasenpfeffer analogy. The fundamental point I am making here is that Q-Ball's aversion to launching operations against Hawaii is based on a false premise. I agree with him that in the context of this particular game, if he attacks only Pearl Harbor in Phase III, the returns are probably not worthwhile. However the correct approach is to view Pearl Harbor as stage one of Phase III, with stage two being West Coast operations. The proper assessment of the value of the entire exercise needs both stages to be incorporated together.

2. I anticipate that the earliest the West Coast operation could be launched is late November/early December. The operation against Hawaii, which I am yet to elaborate on in any detail (save for some comments regarding Midway made some months before and preceding the current debate), would be launched in the period late July/early August. Pearl Harbor forts in July/August would probably be closer to level 6 than the level 8-9 you nominated. They would still be formidable but much less than they would be in December. Furthermore, the future arriving non restricted LCUs (which I did not list in post #306) will almost certainly be ultimately dispersed throughout various islands as most Allied players are wont to do. In other AARs I have argued that is a mistake (also see point 4 of my post #284). So yes, attacking Pearl Harbor would be very messy and I had hoped to spare the poor reader from another lengthy post on the subject from me.

3. I cannot see how Japan can successfully invade Hawaii without mauling the Allied navy in the process. If the USN can maintain the SLOC to Hawaii from the West Coast, the invasion will fail. Assume for a moment that Q-Ball's opponent continues his Sir Robin in extremis and absolutely refuses to sortie out the fleet to maintain the SLOCs. In that case, Q Ball does not even have to incur the costs of invading Pearl Harbor. He could maintain a light screening force, capture the smaller, much more lightly defended Hawaiian bases and (a) bomb the Pearl Harbor and Hilo industry to rack up strategic VPs, (b) build up at his leisure these smaller bases with their favourable Japanese:Allied VP ratios, (c) ultimately destroy Allied devices/aircraft of the starving Allied garrison and (d) for light relief destroy any passing convoys to/from CONUS.

4. Coal Harbour was used only for illustrative purposes. The assessment of the relative utility of the various invasion sites was going to be left to a further post (yes I can already hear the groans from the gallery, hence why I had kept sturm a la Sgt Schultz about it). It is not just bombing USA industry which generates strategic VPs for Japan, page 264 of the manual says any industry in North America. That includes Canadian oil/resource centres, refineries, shipyards etc. Capture Prince Rupert and Netties can reach Edmonton. You will agree that Prince Rupert is quite a reasonably developed base, and reasonably remote from American LCUs attached to West Coast HQ and the training air units of IV Air Force. But the mentioning of Coal Harbour was not a red herring. With adroit placement of Japanese subs in the months preceding the invasion, Q-Ball could show his opponent the wisdom of building up Coal harbour/Alliford Bay/Tillamook/Coos Bay/Eureka etc to house ASW air and naval assets to combat pesky japanese submarines preying on the SLOCs to Alaska/Aleutians/Hawaii. Q-Ball could then arrive unannounced and in force at one of these newly built up bases, courtesy of the Allies, and have a ready made platform to destroy American aircraft factories.

5. West Coast fortifications. Here you betray your officer training in logistics. I too also fortify West Coast bases (and Adelaide/Port Augusta etc in Australia) but very few Allied players would do so. Firstly, it is not sexy to do so. Secondly they rush as many engineering units out to the front and the immediate rear areas which they mistakenly believe suffices to give them a defensive zone in depth. The net result is that little engineering capacity is left for the West Coast which simply does not appear on their horizon as a potential land battleground, consequently even if they want to build forts, the construction rate is greatly hindered. What little engineering capacity is left on the West Coast is much more likely to be employed in building up bases both for the VPs and to combat Japanese submarines, the only combat they envisage occurring in the vicinity.

6. Lastly, if you carefully reread my recent posts, you will not find me suggesting that Allied PPs would be paid on recalling overseas posted LCUs. In post #284 I specifcially mentioned sinking returning convoys to CONUS. In post #306 I classified Allied LCUs falling into three categories:

* already attached to unrestricted HQs - assumed they would be shipped overseas
* attached to restricted HQs but able to be reattached to an unrestricted HQ - assumed necessary PPs spent and shipped overseas
* attached to restricted HQ and unable to be reattached to another HQ- assumed to form the backbone of West Coast defence

So to the best of my knowledge, I had not created an imaginary road block. I apologise if I inadvertently created that impression.

And now, before somebody paraphrases Jim Carey from The Mask and says "somebody stop him", I take my leave.

Alfred

(in reply to Bullwinkle58)

Post #: 308

RE: Illinois Yankee in Showa Court (Q-Ball v Canoe) - 10/11/2010 6:56:06 PM

witpqs

Posts: 26087
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From: Argleton
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quote:

and there I was thinking I was preparing a submission for the Joint Chiefs of Staff which by its very lucidity, would sweep them off their feet

Bravo!

(in reply to Alfred)

Post #: 309

RE: Illinois Yankee in Showa Court (Q-Ball v Canoe) - 10/11/2010 7:16:59 PM

Bullwinkle58

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Joined: 2/24/2009
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Alfred:

Re fort levels, I had thought of Nov/Dec levels, not August.

In my current game vs. the AI, it is Aug 30, 1942. PH is at Forts 6(9) Building 30%. 90 Mines.

San Diego is at 3(9) 31%, 86 mines
LA is at 2(9) 24% 357 mines.
SF is at 7(9) 87%, 589 mines
Seattle is at 3(9) 24%, 228 mines.

I'm building Airfields and Ports at all where they are not maxed out, but I've never sacrificed fort building, even though I'm fairly certain the AI will never, ever come knocking. It just doesn't seem right.

As for Phase III and PH, IMO it's too late. He could have given it a very good try if he'd foregone India and done the PH/WC route months ago. Now, I don't think the US fleet can be taken down. Too many ships about to arrive, many at Balboa and EC, and too many decent planes, such as p-38s, starting to pool up. By the time he got to the winter of 1942-43 and the WC, I think the fleet balance, especially with the IJN at the end of very long supply and repair tether, would be in the Allies' favor.

Your suggestions re strat bombing Canada are interesting. I don't know if anyone has ever tried it. I think western Canada is hard to hold as the rail access is very good for the Allies, but it would be interesting. There are lots and lots of resticted fighter units in the USA, and a few have the LRCAP range to go a bit into Canadian airspace. It would be interesting.

Prince Rupert would never fall, however. Terrace dot hex has the RCMP Terrace Base Force, commanded by D. Do-Right. It is untouchable.

< Message edited by Bullwinkle58 -- 10/11/2010 7:20:05 PM >

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The Moose

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Post #: 310

RE: Illinois Yankee in Showa Court (Q-Ball v Canoe) - 10/11/2010 7:36:28 PM

Q-Ball

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Joined: 6/25/2002
From: Chicago, Illinois
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Combat Report, May 22-23, 1942:

RR Problems in India: My biggest problem in India right now is keeping the rail lines clear of British Troops. Not real units mind you, but cut-off remnants of units, that are blocking supplies.

Case in point: North of Calcutta a recon unit routed the Eastern Army HQ and Bengal Base Force; the remnants retreated east, and are now astride the main rail line to Calcutta. So I have to go get them out, and they might just retreat again to another rail hex. Mind you, these units are down to just clerks and typists, and are at least 10 hexes from the nearest in-supply British units. I suppose we'll kill them eventually.....

Otherwise, my bombers have been busy vaporizing unit remnants. I bombed the 1st Gloucester Bn yesterday near Mandalay, killing 10 Squads, and today the unit is gone. Obliterated. That's one way to solve the problem I guess.

Hopelessly cut-off units include 1 Indian Corp HQ, Easter Army HQ, at least 3 Base Force units, plus all the Chittagong defenders (2 Bdes, 2 Recon units, etc).

This give me an idea anyway; when I do leave India, I will leave remnants behind in the bush, who will emerge from nowhere to cut rail lines.

Attu Island: I have had a small cruiser TF visiting the Aleutians periodically, hoping to find convoys (I also did this around Fiji, and they DID find one). No luck, but for some reason this time, they finished the day phase 1 hex from Attu! Of course they were spotted, and thankfully Dan has no DBs up there, or they would have paid.

This is the problem with raiding TFs; they sometimes don't do what you want them to, and leave themselves unnecessarily exposed. I have to be more careful.

NEXT STEPS: Well Alfred, Bullwinkle, pretty exhaustive analysis there of a West Coast move. I think I will take a pass on a West Coast US invasion in late 1942. Call me crazy, I just see more than a few pitfalls with trying to attempt that. Would be great to take Tacoma, though, and see 50 CVEs "sunk" instantly!

Any thoughts on the other, more realistic options?

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Post #: 311

RE: Illinois Yankee in Showa Court (Q-Ball v Canoe) - 10/11/2010 7:52:16 PM

Bullwinkle58

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Joined: 2/24/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

Any thoughts on the other, more realistic options?

Yeah, now that you've had your vacation, shut down Karachi!!!!

Centers of gravity in India, in order of import:

1. Karachi
2. Karachi
3. Colombo
4. Bombay
5. Madras/Calcutta, tied

Get some surface TFs into Karachi and sink some transports at the pier. Aden/Abadan is the key to the whole subcontinental effort. If he slips by you in the 1-day transit from the wormhole, go in and dig them out. His air forces are shot. He isn't risking any RN units, and the carriers are elsewhere. Aden has a finite number of hulls. Sink them, and reenforcements sit. To get more he has to run them from CT, a long, dangerous route. The next eight weeks are decisive.

Use the navy!!!

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The Moose

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Post #: 312

RE: Illinois Yankee in Showa Court (Q-Ball v Canoe) - 10/11/2010 8:26:56 PM

Alfred

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Q-Ball,

Are you using armour in pursuit mode when you are routing the clerks and typists? That would ensure you maintain contact, allow no respite, speed up their destruction and reduce the number of Japanese units you have to manually direct to chase them. At this stage I wouldn't be too concerned about your LOC, you are still operating close to your entry supply dumps and the countryside surrounding Calcutta/Madras has good transportation links, with several lines to the interior. Maintaining clear LOC becomes more critical if you decide to cross the trigger line. Irrespective of that decision I concur with Bullwinkle you need to plant some small SCs TF astride the Karachi shipping lanes. The one sniffing about Attu would be better employed off Karachi.

Alfred

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RE: Illinois Yankee in Showa Court (Q-Ball v Canoe) - 10/11/2010 8:28:37 PM

terje439

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58
Centers of gravity in India, in order of import:

1. Karachi
2. Karachi
3. Colombo
4. Bombay
5. Madras/Calcutta, tied

Out of curiosity, why Madras so long down on the list? It will spawn quite a few units during 42 will it not?

Terje

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RE: Illinois Yankee in Showa Court (Q-Ball v Canoe) - 10/11/2010 8:54:42 PM

Bullwinkle58

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quote:

ORIGINAL: terje439

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58
Centers of gravity in India, in order of import:

1. Karachi
2. Karachi
3. Colombo
4. Bombay
5. Madras/Calcutta, tied

Out of curiosity, why Madras so long down on the list? It will spawn quite a few units during 42 will it not?

Terje

I don't know about a lot, but some. Without local supply they aren't worth much.

My list above is predicated on geography, not LCUs. Burma is stoppered. The route from the south (Oz) is stoppered by holding Ceylon. CR's lone source of relief is the East Coast through CT to Aden, the bit of supply auto-generated in the Mideast, and any LCUs he can slip into India from the same Mideast. Karachi, given the mechanics of the off-map system, is optimally placed for the Allies, IF the Japanese player leaves it alone. There is total immunity while "in the route", a one-day pucker factor transit, then unloading at Karachi, a large port with rail access.

If Karachi is taken, or at least rendered very dangerous to enter, the Allied player must then risk longer exposure to get into a port farther south, with Bombay being the optimal. If Karachi is taken, Bombay is probably already in Japanese hands (but not necessarily.) If Karachi is merely blockaded, and Bombay is still Allied, the Allied player must then escort anything with any hope of surviving the trip, offering an opportunity to attrit the Allied naval forces, which at this time have no regional repair or damage control facility.

Once Karachi is taken/neutralized, India is a pillowcase with corners at Burma, Ceylon, and Karachi. Only Dehli remians as the fourth, and the retreat area once operaitons begin to take Madras/Calcutta, probably by sea, since the neutralized Mideast has made the IO truly a Japanese lake. At the point Karachi is rendered moot, and Bombay's industry becomes Japanese, the theater effort turns to economic/supply denial as the Allies find themselves in a shrinking box with no outside relief in sight. This means Madras/Calcutta. When Madras and Calcutta are in hand, the Allies are through. In that mopping-up phase, there may be a desperate carrier battle, but if so, again, damage to the Allies is likely fatal with no shipyards closer than weeks away. And by then, the west coast of India will be an LCU pin-cushion. The IJN can refuse battle outside cover, and the Allies have little choice but to close and risk quick death over slow strangulation.

In that last land-based mopping-up phase, the target is auto-victory, and only THEN should garrisoning become a primary concern.

The key is sea-control, leading to supply denial, leading to industry take-over, leading to mopping-up operations. Q-Ball has somewhat reversed this sequence, going for the industrial centers-of-gravity of Madras-Calcutta before cauterizing India from the outside world. Karachi is an open wound. It must be closed.

< Message edited by Bullwinkle58 -- 10/11/2010 8:57:32 PM >

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RE: Illinois Yankee in Showa Court (Q-Ball v Canoe) - 10/12/2010 8:40:13 PM

Q-Ball

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Combat Report, May 24-28, 1942:

GOA: Enough is unloaded here that we can move forward with the next part of our India Operations.

First, I am moving AOs and KB here, we now have a viable base on the Arabian Sea. This will help interdict Karachi. I am still on the fence about crossing the "Line of Death", but it will be another 3-4 weeks until I have to decide.

This also opens a rail connection all the way to Calcutta, so I am prepping units for Bombay in case Dan makes a stand there. If I continue to Karachi I would probably bypass Bombay; if not, probably invest and take it.

IJA Commitments: 2 More Divisions are on the way to India; the Gds Tank Div, and 12th Infantry. My IJA dispositions are getting dangerously skewed to India, and Dan certainly knows this. I have to be careful, particularly with SUMATRA, which is where I might be going if I were him.

My next PP buy will probably be the elements making up the 2nd Tank Div; I might send them to India, but pull an Infantry unit.

Aside from the Indian Army, I don't have a major concentration of troops. I have about 800 AV on Luzon, consisting of most of 16th Division and hodgepodge of units. In the South Pacific, it's 2 Inf Regts and Nav Gds. Real thin. I know this, but I need to keep pushing for now, and trust Ms. Betty to guard my flank.

I am still in angst over whether to completely go for it; at the moment, I am still on that path. I would if either a) the USN CVs were defeated, or b) I was playing an opponent who wasn't very good, but neither of those are the case. I haven't sniffed the USN CVs since Christmas of '41, so no clue at all where they are. You would think they would have run over a sub by now, but not even that has happened.

Clark Field Falls: On the 28th, Clark Falls to a 3-1 Shock attack. My troops suffered alot of disablements, but few perm destructions. The Allies had 3 units surrender, and about 1400 squads were destroyed, according to the Combat report.

So, the endgame is nigh; we march to Bataan, and finish everyone off. That should take about 3 weeks. At that point, I will know how close I am to Auto-Victory. I estimate I'll be about 3000 points short of 4-1 (right now, it's 3.2-1)

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RE: Illinois Yankee in Showa Court (Q-Ball v Canoe) - 10/13/2010 12:50:37 AM

Bullwinkle58

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I'm sure the decision is troubling, but it must be made, and soon. Bypassing Bombay for now would be the "Patton" move--exciting, decisive, possibly fatal. Investing Bombay, well, Monty would like it. It offers time for tea . . .

Take Karachi, and your table is laid before you. Everything he has to play with is there already in theater, in the "pillowcase", ready to be squeezed, in whatever shape your ministrations has left it. If you hold Karachi, he has to risk an east-bound sea rush on Bombay to get in help. You have time to take Bombay after Karachi, with maximum effort and Rest-be-damned, or to at least lay a naval trap for the inevitable effort to break through. West-coast LBA not making themselves prior visible would be of help here too. He is essentially strategically blind at this point over much of the subcontinent I'm guessing. There is one long-range Hurricane recon model that is very useful in this era, but you may have dealt with it.

I know where the carriers are, so I can't get too loquacious. CR loves his carriers, always has. Your clue that he's freaking out will be them heaving into sight over the western horizon. If you want a carrier battle---and you do, for VP purposes at least--as we discussed several weeks ago, the ONE move that gets it for you is a credible auto-victory threat. Appreciate the lack of fuel and repair sources he would have now (if Karachi is gone), and push him to the wall if you want to see some birdfarms.

I like the idea of you getting more tank heavy. I've used armor against the AI to leapfrog forward to take rail heads, then strat moved the infantry up without fatigue. Central India on the road to Dehli is good tank country, a couple of strat phases from now.

Finally, as for Bataan, it might be better to wait on that. It's low-hanging fruit, but the POW numbers have to be big enough to make CR sit up and think auto-vic if he isn't already. There's no hurry. They aren't going anywhere.

Glad to see the wheels turning. Turn harder on an amphib invasion of Karachi. Be Patton. You know you want to.

< Message edited by Bullwinkle58 -- 10/13/2010 12:51:00 AM >

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RE: Illinois Yankee in Showa Court (Q-Ball v Canoe) - 10/13/2010 5:32:46 AM

John 3rd

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I don't want to be the doubting Mufasa here but what is the point of making this stab across, as our author put it, the "Line of Death?" Taking any urban hex is harder then Hades. You will have to take SEVERAL that are well provisioned and garrisoned. Crossing this line means at LEAST 9-12 months more of campaigning here while your opponent can plan to hit you elsewhere and make the whole darned thing meaningless...

I'd, however, draw your own line. Staff it, defend it, and draw out as much HI, Supply, and Resources as you can while freeing up troops to deploy where you'll need them. Your Resource Area is free from attack and you can use that to make the job of hitting Japan in 1943/1944 much more difficult.

For whatever it is worth Q-Ball...

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RE: Illinois Yankee in Showa Court (Q-Ball v Canoe) - 10/13/2010 7:20:48 AM

ckammp

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The stated goal of this AAR is a Japanese Auto-victory. The only way to achieve that goal is by taking all of India, and sinking the Allied CVs.
If you stop short in India now, what do you do? It is too late to attempt to take all of Australia/New Zealand or Hawaii; there are no other options for Auto-victory. You will cede the strategic initiative to Canoerebel, and this will turn into another typical "Look Ma, the Japs held out 'til 45!" game, with the Japanese steadily losing for 2 years.
Dare to be a different Japanese player - dare to go for the win!
Faint heart never won fair lady - you have an excellent chace to wrap this game up by 1 Jan 43, all you have to do is go for it.

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RE: Illinois Yankee in Showa Court (Q-Ball v Canoe) - 10/13/2010 10:50:58 AM

veji1

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I wouldn't go for Karachi. Too hard, too long, you will be still besieging it while Canoerebel lands in the Marianas....

You should try to destroy the units you can and then prepare a stabilised front for resisting all the way to 1944 in India.

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RE: Illinois Yankee in Showa Court (Q-Ball v Canoe) - 10/13/2010 8:26:27 PM

Q-Ball

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Yeah, it's a quandary. I still have time to start something if I move soon; at this point Dan can't tell where my infantry is (Calcutta), and the spearheads are chasing him, but his troops are just running, and probably won't stop I am guessing until Cawnpore at the earliest, and maybe not until Delhi.

If I start something else, it will have to be limited; Fiji, perhaps, or the Line Islands, or Attu-Kiska, but a major Australia/NZ thing is out.

As a side benefit, launching an offensive in the pacific would re-position units for the inevitable US offensive.

Still, I want to keep the "skeer" on as long as possible in India. Dan has to be sweating right now.

Combat Report, May 29-June 1, 1942:

Running Fight: "North" of Ranchi on the road to Benares, I am chasing the Allied rearguard.

Earlier in the month we caught the 16th Indian Bde and mauled it, reducing it to just a remnant, which escaped.

Now, we caught the 25th Australian Bde the same way; 1 attack at 5-1, then another in the PURSUIT phase the next day with an Armored Bde. That unit is wrecked, and still isolated behind my lines. He can rebuild it, but that's still good. That is also an experienced Brigade, of the 7th Aus Div (I think).

Anyway, still no signs that the Allies are stopping short of the "line of death". They are still running.

Madras: Falls on the 1st. Attacks earlier with one Brigade failed, forcing me to bring up a couple more units to finish the Fort unit.

I admit I waited an extra couple days to see what appeared as reinforcements on June 1; sure enough, an Engineer Bn and an HQ were added as POWs. I think it's gamey to go any further than that, even though I could have just walled off the city, cut supplies, and allowed it to accumulate starving units. Better to play it straight-up. I know Madras is one of the main Indian reinforcement points, along with Karachi.

7000 POWs is a good haul regardless. Allied Ground Losses are now at 10,220 VPs, and Luzon is still not liquidated.

Reinforcements: I am prepping a number of small units for the Central Pacific; we need to reinforce my paltry garrisons there. (veji1, I hope that Marianas comment wasn't a slip, but I am not unaware of a danger there, or to my whole flank in general).

The Marshalls need more ground troops, but otherwise I am cool with the airbase levels. I am building/fortifying the Marianas and Iwo Jima; never too soon to start!

If Dan makes a move to distract from India, the possibilities:

1. SUMATRA: A landing here would be a disaster! First priority for defenses, though I am sure I would get early-warning
2. SOUTHERN DEI: Yeah, I'm familiar with this one!
3. CENTRAL PACIFIC: In many ways, the most likely; it's a long way from India, and the USN is intact. This could mean a conservative landing in the Marshalls or Gilberts, or a more aggressive one in the Marianas.
4. SOLOMONS: I consider this not as likely; I think it's not a good area to go, but who knows.
5. KURILES: Allied 4Es (from attu?) have been buzzing my bases up there. If so, Dan can see I am not ignoring it, as I have garrisons. An early Allied attack on the Kuriles triggers all sorts of goodies for Japan, and Dan knows this, having been burned in his game with Miller. For that reason, I discount a move here, but you never know, which is why I reinforced it.

< Message edited by Q-Ball -- 10/13/2010 8:29:32 PM >

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RE: Illinois Yankee in Showa Court (Q-Ball v Canoe) - 10/13/2010 8:46:30 PM

Bullwinkle58

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quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

I don't want to be the doubting Mufasa here but what is the point of making this stab across, as our author put it, the "Line of Death?" Taking any urban hex is harder then Hades. You will have to take SEVERAL that are well provisioned and garrisoned. Crossing this line means at LEAST 9-12 months more of campaigning here while your opponent can plan to hit you elsewhere and make the whole darned thing meaningless...

Yes, giving it a tasty PR name like "Line of Death" injects fear into The Opponent. Next will be "Shock and Awe."

The reenforcements are to be considered, yes. But, a lot of them arrive in Aden. They don't get to India is Karachi is gone, and/or if the sealift in Aden is sunk on supply runs beforehand, with surface and CVL raids on Karachi port.

Second, a lot of the reenforcements are fill to the device pools. Also good, BUT the fill takes time, and consumes a lot of supply. (There are threads on this. It's not insignificant.) CR's supply situaiton is not great with Madras and Calcutta gone, and fuel severely restricted by, again, Karachi taking/blockade. The mauling Q has done to LCUs presently in theater is also eating at the supply stocks, and those units will never really rebuild before he caulks them again.

Third, going straight at Karachi is the Oh S**t moment of the war for CR. He is completely naked in a naval sense, and Karachi is no Singapore in terms of CD or mines. I think Q has enough LCUs to do an amphib of Karachi with, say, 5 divisions plus engineers, and still press on Bombay supported by air. (Strat bomb the industry to take out Bombay's large industrial contribution? Only if the rail lines to the east can't be blocked with armor.) So long as CR eschews naval war, Q can sail all the supply into Karachi he needs, while blocking the eastern routes in with armor, paras, or slow-walking infantry. He can bombard Karachi at will, eating more supply. And he has air supriority at sea, and from Goa, to help press Bombay. It would be difficult, and risky, but it could end the war. 9-12 months? I think not.

< Message edited by Bullwinkle58 -- 10/13/2010 9:03:47 PM >

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RE: Illinois Yankee in Showa Court (Q-Ball v Canoe) - 10/13/2010 8:53:40 PM

Bullwinkle58

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quote:

ORIGINAL: veji1

I wouldn't go for Karachi. Too hard, too long, you will be still besieging it while Canoerebel lands in the Marianas....

You should try to destroy the units you can and then prepare a stabilised front for resisting all the way to 1944 in India.

So, lose slowly then?

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RE: Illinois Yankee in Showa Court (Q-Ball v Canoe) - 10/13/2010 9:09:20 PM

Alfred

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Q-Ball,

I don't share your concerns about Sumatra because a weakness is only a weakness if it can be exploited. As things have developed, your opponent cannot exploit your Sumatran fears in 1942.

1. The Allies can only land on the west coast: up north at Sabang, in the centre Padang or Benkolen, in the south at Oosthaven. Of these sites, the only half decent port is Oosthaven, it is also the only one that allows for a quick overland march on Palembang. All four sites are very vulnerable to multiple Japanese airbases.

2. At best, your opponent might get an initial lodgement but he will lack the capacity to move beyond the beachhead due to the slowness in building up supply damps and airbases.

3. A thrust against Sumatra can now only come from Perth or Cape Town. The former can be very easily kept under survillance by subs off Perth, the latter can mbe monitored by a Glen equipped sub off the wormhole and assets stationed on Cocos and Christmas islands. The odds are that you will receive adequate warning to get critical air units into theatre and even if the KB is unable to get there in time for the initial landings, it should arrive in time to destroy the essential Allied follow up forces.

4. Allied CVs would be indispensable for this operation. They would have neither friendly LBA nor ports to shelter damaged ships.

Throughout the course of 1943, the Allied position will become better placed to contemplate a Sumatran landing. But that is purely academic because you will have achieved an auto victory before then, if you finish off India and Luzon decisively.

Alfred

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RE: Illinois Yankee in Showa Court (Q-Ball v Canoe) - 10/13/2010 9:47:16 PM

veji1

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Qball, the Marianas aren't a slip, just a genuine concern as an example. You know well that in this game the allies can be on the ropes for years but with one well timed offensive in just 3 months they could own the Marianas and Iwo-Jima for all I know and then you are in it deep... Maybe I am too cautious and for sure the gallant thing to do would be to try to finish off India, but I worry about what could happen to you in the Pacific or the DEI with all your troops tied in India when late 42 early 43 come knocking...

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RE: Illinois Yankee in Showa Court (Q-Ball v Canoe) - 10/13/2010 11:41:58 PM

DTurtle

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I have to agree with Bullwinkle. Attacking Karachi is the one way you have of forcing Canoerebel to fight with everything he has (including his carriers).

Your goal is an Auto-victory. Go for it.

As for your fears about counter-offensives: Are there any places he can take that endanger your chances of an auto-victory (because they are worth many points)?

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RE: Illinois Yankee in Showa Court (Q-Ball v Canoe) - 10/14/2010 5:31:35 AM

John 3rd

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

Q-Ball,

I don't share your concerns about Sumatra because a weakness is only a weakness if it can be exploited. As things have developed, your opponent cannot exploit your Sumatran fears in 1942.

1. The Allies can only land on the west coast: up north at Sabang, in the centre Padang or Benkolen, in the south at Oosthaven. Of these sites, the only half decent port is Oosthaven, it is also the only one that allows for a quick overland march on Palembang. All four sites are very vulnerable to multiple Japanese airbases.

2. At best, your opponent might get an initial lodgement but he will lack the capacity to move beyond the beachhead due to the slowness in building up supply damps and airbases.

3. A thrust against Sumatra can now only come from Perth or Cape Town. The former can be very easily kept under survillance by subs off Perth, the latter can mbe monitored by a Glen equipped sub off the wormhole and assets stationed on Cocos and Christmas islands. The odds are that you will receive adequate warning to get critical air units into theatre and even if the KB is unable to get there in time for the initial landings, it should arrive in time to destroy the essential Allied follow up forces.

4. Allied CVs would be indispensable for this operation. They would have neither friendly LBA nor ports to shelter damaged ships.

Throughout the course of 1943, the Allied position will become better placed to contemplate a Sumatran landing. But that is purely academic because you will have achieved an auto victory before then, if you finish off India and Luzon decisively.

Alfred

Summary is quite good and well reasoned, however, Dan has shown no inclination to commit his CVs ANYWHERE to this point in the campaign.

If you run with that thought then you are probably SAFE from an Allied counter-punch until early-43.

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RE: Illinois Yankee in Showa Court (Q-Ball v Canoe) - 10/15/2010 4:46:49 PM

Q-Ball

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The earliest a landing on Karachi could be contemplated would be approx. August; I wouldn't do it without at least 70+ prep. With 6+ Divisions prepping for Karachi, Dan will get some SigInt reports. He may dismiss that as future-thinking (overland), or maybe not. I wouldn't feel good about it without 10 divisions; because:

1. It's an urban hex, figures to be well-fortified, have CD guns, and a stack of units; not front-line divisions, but certainly recovering units. I have to plan as if there are 600+AV.
2. NOT taking it and having those divisions stranded would be a complete disaster; not only would I trigger 6 new allied Divisions, I could easily lose whatever was stranded.

Landing on Karachi is UBER-high risk.

Combat Report, June 2-6, 1942:

Benares: We are approaching Benares in the center of India; we mauled the 36th Indian Bde, and 254th Armored Bde, new additions to the rearguard. We are occassionally catching and nailing Allied units that fall behind, which is a good thing. That Australian Bde we nailed earlier should escape now after a couple retreats towards its own lines, but the damage is done. Anyway, that unit could have been rebuilt even if destroyed, just by combining the parent division.

Goa/Poona: We have a spearhead approaching Poona; once that is taken, we can rail-in a whole army and quickly reduce Bombay, then rail them back to the Delhi area. Now that I have a rail network, i can do the same thing the Allies can via rail.

Subs and Intel: My subs have been active lately, and provided some intel.

At SUVA, we torpedod an AP; I don't think we sank it, but it was loaded. That's more reinforcements we have seen for Fiji, including the convoy we wiped out last month.

At ATTU, lots of traffic; we torpedoed an AK that was carrying GUNS, then a TF with CL HONOLULU included shows up to cover more tranports; that is the first USN warship I have seen since December! No doubt covering landing, because Dan knows I have a couple cruisers around.

The original sub was sent home from damage, but another sub, I-6, torpedoed another AK with guns on board, THEN an ACM (so there must be mines at Attu as well). With guns and mines, Dan is clearly reinforcing the place.

We also torpedod an empty AK off Karachi. Allied subs have been quiet lately, no kills. There are a million of them off Colombo, but I have been avoiding that wolfpack.

Defenses: I am also beginning to attend more closely to defenses in the Pacific, as the risks mount from Allied action.

I am pulling the 2nd INF DIV from India, to use as a reserve at TRUK. This will be the only Inf Div in the Pacific. I am also routing 5th AMPHIB BDE to the Marshalls, along with more Nav Gds. An INF REGT is reinforcing Horn Island, and more troops on the way to Efate/Luganville.

With the lack of air battles in India, I have alot of airpower with nothing to do at the moment. The IJA bombers are all training on LOW-N, and I am sending several units to TRUK, along with all my Land-Based VAL and KATE units, plus some surplus ZEROS. I already have about 1/2 my Bettys out there. Any landing at this point would see some serious air oppossition, if not naval at this point.

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RE: Illinois Yankee in Showa Court (Q-Ball v Canoe) - 10/15/2010 5:11:00 PM

Bullwinkle58

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

The earliest a landing on Karachi could be contemplated would be approx. August; I wouldn't do it without at least 70+ prep. With 6+ Divisions prepping for Karachi, Dan will get some SigInt reports. He may dismiss that as future-thinking (overland), or maybe not. I wouldn't feel good about it without 10 divisions; because:

1. It's an urban hex, figures to be well-fortified, have CD guns, and a stack of units; not front-line divisions, but certainly recovering units. I have to plan as if there are 600+AV.

If you wait until August, it will surely be all of these, overland or by sea. If you have to wait until August, don't do it at all.

As far as stranding, as long as you have total sea control, nothing need be stranded.

< Message edited by Bullwinkle58 -- 10/15/2010 5:12:47 PM >

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RE: Illinois Yankee in Showa Court (Q-Ball v Canoe) - 10/15/2010 5:13:43 PM

veji1

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What are you doing in China ? Couldn't you go on an offensive using all your airpower to soften his defenses ?

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