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ASW: Any tactics to localize?

 
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ASW: Any tactics to localize? - 7/31/2010 3:51:04 AM   
iriyak


Posts: 66
Joined: 9/27/2008
From: Tokyo, Japan
Status: offline 		Hi,

I am trying to conduct 4 subs in scen Pason #1 in HUD3, but now I am realizing how large the sea is whereas ASW range is quite small and battery is running out so fast. Can you suggest me any tactics to localize the hostile subs in a reasonable amount of time?

Best Regards,
Kazunori iriya

PS Looking forward to Ultimate Edition this summer.
Post #: 1
Harpoon - 7/31/2010 5:13:55 AM   
hermanhum


Posts: 2209
Joined: 9/21/2005
Status: offline 		You could try to move at an oblique angle from your contact so that you can generate a better cross-fix in order to triangulate the position.

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(in reply to iriyak)
Post #: 2
RE: ASW: Any tactics to localize? - 8/2/2010 3:50:39 PM   
iriyak


Posts: 66
Joined: 9/27/2008
From: Tokyo, Japan
Status: offline 		Hi Herman and Ralf,

Thank you very much for your advice how we can face at. I will try to build a formation according to your suggestion, and look into it how we build a blockade over the English Channel and get back to you!

Best Regards,
Kazunori Iriya

PS UE will be released by the end of September. Can't wait to see it!

< Message edited by iriyak -- 8/2/2010 4:24:26 PM >
Post #: 3
RE: ASW: Any tactics to localize? - 8/7/2010 5:30:00 PM   
iriyak


Posts: 66
Joined: 9/27/2008
From: Tokyo, Japan
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: iriyak

Hi Herman and Ralf,

Thank you very much for your advice how we can face at. I will try to build a formation according to your suggestion, and look into it how we build a blockade over the English Channel and get back to you!

Finally we built a blockade like that and met the victory condition!



Thanks a lot!

Best Regards,
Kazunori Iriya

(in reply to iriyak)
Post #: 4
Harpoon - 8/7/2010 9:25:53 PM   
hermanhum


Posts: 2209
Joined: 9/21/2005
Status: offline 		Good to hear that you now have another tactical tool in your toolbox.

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Post #: 5
RE: ASW: Any tactics to localize? - 8/8/2010 4:12:17 AM   
iriyak


Posts: 66
Joined: 9/27/2008
From: Tokyo, Japan
Status: offline 		Hi Ralf and Herman,

Thanks a lot. Will move on to the next scen!

Best Regards,
Kazunori Iriya

(in reply to iriyak)
Post #: 6
Harpoon - 8/8/2010 7:07:46 AM   
hermanhum


Posts: 2209
Joined: 9/21/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: iriyak

Hi Ralf and Herman,

Thanks a lot. Will move on to the next scen!

Best Regards,
Kazunori Iriya

Good to see you still playing.

_____________________________


(in reply to iriyak)
Post #: 7
RE: Harpoon - 8/20/2010 11:27:41 PM   
FransKoenz


Posts: 255
Joined: 6/3/2005
Status: offline 		ANNOYING ADVERTISEMENT

Why are the moderators of this forum not ending this?

On every forum topic Mr. Herman is smashing not to the point messages with nothing more than a big banner. It is not only irritating, it is annoying!!!

Herman, you always had a big mouth about HUD-3 blabla and more. Why now putting your SPAM here?

Your contribution here is nada, nothing. Only annoying advertisement!!

Frans Koenz.



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Post #: 8
RE: Harpoon - 8/21/2010 12:21:08 AM   
Spearfish

 

Posts: 75
Joined: 8/17/2010
Status: offline 		@hermanhum: Maybe it is high time to improve PlayersDB a bit instead of adding new platforms?

- removing SA-N-9 system along with 57 mm ammo from CVHG "Novorossiysk" would be a good start. She never carried SA-N-9 in real life. And how to load AK-257 ammo into AK-726 guns? Also this particular warship never carried 533 mm torpedo tubes. All this can alter game balance...

- as for BCGN Kirov-class I pointed out several issues in other topic...

- I cannot find any difference between three CG Slavas ('82, '83, '90) present in PlayersDB. However all three models have too many Grumble command datalinks - two instead of one. It is strange because only one Top Dome FCR is correctly modeled. Another danger to game balance...

- there are FIVE DDG Sovremenny I variants in PlayersDB ('81, '82, '83, '84, '85). Can you show us any significant difference between them? I can find nothing like that in real life. In PlayersDB I have found only SET-65 torpedo mount being replaced in 1982(?) by USET-80 torpedo mount. I wonder if Sovremennys ever carried this type of mainly submarine torpedo.

- two DDG Udaloy I variants ('81, '84) do not have most important difference portrayed in PlayersDB! DDG Udaloy'81 did not have SA-N-9 system installed because it was not yet ready at that time. Besides several first Udaloys carried only one Cross Sword FCR during their entire combat service but who cares...

- it would be appreciated if PlayersDB Group make quick comparison: number of CIWS mounts to number of their corresponding ammo magazines on Soviet warships. In many cases both numbers are not equal. Or maybe this is correct?

- SA-N-9 command datalink has 8 or 10 channels in Players DB. In fact one Cross Sword FCR can guide up to eight missiles BUT only at FOUR targets simultaneously. So this datalink should have 4 channels. As I checked out SA-N-6 and SA-N-7 datalinks they are 6 fire channels which is correct (after looking at SA-N-6 and SA-N-7 mounts on Kirovs and Sovs).

- CADS-N-1 command datalink has 8 channels in PlayersDB. Once again I am not sure how it works in Harpoon 3 but in reality CADS-N-1 is single channel system only possessing eight ready to launch 3M87 missiles. Therefore I suppose number of fire channels should be decreased to one but number of CADS-N-1 command datalinks should be equal to number of those systems installed abroad specific warship.

In sum bulk of Soviet Fleet requires some tuning in PlayersDB...before "game balance" is restored!

< Message edited by Spearfish -- 8/21/2010 1:37:38 AM >

(in reply to FransKoenz)
Post #: 9
Harpoon - 8/21/2010 1:47:25 AM   
hermanhum


Posts: 2209
Joined: 9/21/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Spearfish

And how to load AK-257 ammo into AK-726 guns?

The AK-257 ammo magazines were accidentally entered in lieu of AK-726 magazines. This is a legitimate error has been corrected to AK-726 magazines for the next release.

All other requests are simply your opinion and thus will not be changed.

Thanks for pointing out this problem.

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Post #: 10
RE: Harpoon - 8/21/2010 11:01:13 AM   
Spearfish

 

Posts: 75
Joined: 8/17/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: hermanhum


All other requests are simply your opinion and thus will not be changed.



Are you kidding, man???

- Give me ONE reliable source claiming CVHG "Novorossiysk" ever carried SA-N-9.

- Give me ONE reliable source claiming CVHG "Novorossiysk" ever carried 533 mm torpedo tubes.

- Give me ONE reliable source claiming any of three CG "Slava" cruisers ever had two Top Dome radars.

- Point out ONE significant difference between Sovremenny DDGs entered service between 1981 and 1985 which is portrayed in Players DB.

- Prove SA-N-9 system was in combat use circa 1981.

- ...


So "my opinion" is that all above flaws are only "your opinions" which are simply not historically correct. Yet you do not want to correct those inaccuracies in PlayersDB because "they are my opinions". All these are hard facts and Players DB in its present state wrongly models many Soviet warships. If you do not want fix all this, it looks really very strange...

< Message edited by Spearfish -- 8/21/2010 11:03:50 AM >

(in reply to hermanhum)
Post #: 11
RE: Harpoon - 8/21/2010 12:42:09 PM   
FreekS


Posts: 323
Joined: 5/12/2006
Status: offline 		Hi spearfish

My 1990/1991 Weyers Flottentaschenbuch has for RB Novorossijsk both 10 UTR 53.3 and 96 SA-N-9.
Im not claiming this is difinitive evidence as 1990 was not yet very open knowledge but it seems to have been one school of thought then.

Freek

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Post #: 12
Harpoon - 8/21/2010 12:50:16 PM   
hermanhum


Posts: 2209
Joined: 9/21/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Spearfish

- I cannot find any difference between three CG Slavas ('82, '83, '90) present in PlayersDB. However all three models have too many Grumble command datalinks - two instead of one. It is strange because only one Top Dome FCR is correctly modeled. Another danger to game balance

[snip]

- two DDG Udaloy I variants ('81, '84) do not have most important difference portrayed in PlayersDB! DDG Udaloy'81 did not have SA-N-9 system installed because it was not yet ready at that time. Besides several first Udaloys carried only one Cross Sword FCR during their entire combat service but who cares

The PlayersDB follows many of the basic ship designs such as these set out in the ANWDB (created, owned, and distributed by AGSI). If you do not like these basic ship layouts, you will have to take it up with the developers because they are the same ones employed in the ANWDB.

In most cases, the PlayersDB is happy to follow in the developer's footsteps since permission has been granted to do so. However, there are still many differences between the ANWDB and the PlayersDB; the most significant being the fact that PlayersDB weapons are tested to ensure that they can actually hit their targets instead of simply waving at them as they fly overhead.

It certainly appears as though anyone's opinion that disagrees with yours is somehow wrong or unrealistic. Please allow everyone to hold their own opinions.

Goodbye.

< Message edited by hermanhum -- 8/21/2010 1:19:47 PM >

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Post #: 13
RE: Harpoon - 8/21/2010 1:45:37 PM   
Vincenzo_Beretta


Posts: 440
Joined: 3/13/2001
From: Milan, Italy
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: koelbach

Frans,

as you know Herman has been banned from the two single most important Harpoon websites - www.harpgamer.com and www.warfaresims.com - for good reasons.


Just to clarify, these "reasons" usually involved asking for bug-fixing and mantaining bug list. They were deemed "good": I think that this is a good explanation as any for the sorry state of the software.

quote:


And the site he advertises - HarplonkHQ - is the place where he discusses with himself. There he is always right.


MY site (should it happen you missed it) is open to all to speak freely about Harpoon and its problems without fears of moderation, ban or various kinds of mobbing. Herman doesn't "speak with himself" on it, as a simple click on the link shows. That people are unwilling to speak about Harpoon's problems in a frank way is another matter. See also "Being banned for pointing out bugs".

Oh, BTW: *I* was banned form an "important Harpoon site" because I pointed out how the way they mantained a database caused scenarios to crash.

http://forums.gamesquad.com/showthread.php?23874-Unannounced-Database-changes

This gave me all the lessons I needed about "why people are banned" by "important honchos" in the community.

quote:


If Matrix still tolerates this, their problem.


Matrix tolerates a product that, in its sixteen years of life under various iterations, still is unable to fix the most basic of bugs (and this even if out there there are lists, examples and all the additional help a gamer can give for a game he loves).

quote:


If people still buy his stories, their problem.


I would be... No, let me repraphase that: ***I'M*** more worried by people who choose to buy stories before checking facts. Luckily, those inclined to do that do seem the ones inclined to seel factless stories in the first place.

quote:


A guy spamming half a dozen sites, spending day and night on a) a game and b) on a game he seems to despise.


...Producing scenario, fixes, helping the community... What about "despising someone who is helping your game"?

quote:

He is driven by an agenda which looks like a nice modern interpretation of Don Quixote vs. the windmills


On this, in all fairness, I agree - as long as the "windmills" are hopes of finally seeing a functional game.

< Message edited by Vincenzo Beretta -- 8/21/2010 1:49:18 PM >

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Post #: 14
RE: Harpoon - 8/21/2010 5:28:15 PM   
Spearfish

 

Posts: 75
Joined: 8/17/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: koelbach

Spearfish,

looks like you are really surprised.


You are right!

quote:

ORIGINAL: koelbach

The others have opinions, he is right.


I see.

quote:

ORIGINAL: koelbach

Don´t waste your time on correcting this plagarised stuff, that database is a cheap copy of db2000 and HUD, nothing more.


What plagiarized stuff???

quote:

ORIGINAL: koelbach

Help improve original stuff. Focus on HUD 3 and ANW DB.


I'll look at them a bit tomorrow. However it is too bad because I have already made many fixes to my personal copy of PlayersDB with database editor...


< Message edited by Spearfish -- 8/21/2010 5:42:36 PM >
Post #: 15
RE: Harpoon - 8/21/2010 7:15:59 PM   
Vincenzo_Beretta


Posts: 440
Joined: 3/13/2001
From: Milan, Italy
Status: offline 		Spearfish,

the gist of the "plagiarism" accusations is, basically, this: if in your database you put 2 x Mh26 missile launchers on a "Ticonderoga" class cruiser, and other databases do the same, you are "plagiarizing" them.

quote:


search this site for older threads where the warfaresims staff (ex-HHQ = Harpoon Headquarters; one of them is Ragnar Emsoy, editor of the db2000


To be clear, Raganar is the one who mantained his database so badly that it made scenarios written for it crash - as shown in the link I provided above. This led to the decision to create another, more stable, database. Amazingly enough, this database contained, too, data about modern aeronaval warfare platforms. This led to the sort of accusations I mentioned before.

quote:


Or don´t spend your time on this (Ragnar, Darren and others invested much time to make things clear in the foras)


Without managing the feat, I might add.

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Post #: 16
RE: Harpoon - 8/21/2010 7:45:42 PM   
mikmykWS

 

Posts: 11524
Joined: 3/22/2005
Status: offline 		Guess the C Squad's a little scared about whats coming eh?

Looking forward to a big release. Never know could be here





(in reply to Vincenzo_Beretta)
Post #: 17
RE: Harpoon - 8/21/2010 7:48:07 PM   
Spearfish

 

Posts: 75
Joined: 8/17/2010
Status: offline 		Well, I have just ended reading through this and other Harpoon related forums and I am very confused and disappointed! There were flame wars, plagiarism and scenario destruction accusations in the past and now Harpoon community is so divided if not dead. Every side claims different things: Harpoon3 ANW is full of bugs or is pretty good, these and those databases are buggy etc. It looks like some idiocy but both hermanhum and ex-HHQ guys compiled large ANW buglists but also accuse each other their databases are bugfests causing game to crash. At the end ex-HHQ folks begun to code completely new game.

I am not really interested in deliberating about flame wars but I am afraid about Harpoon 3 future in present circumstances... 

(in reply to Vincenzo_Beretta)
Post #: 18
RE: Harpoon - 8/21/2010 7:53:07 PM   
Spearfish

 

Posts: 75
Joined: 8/17/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: koelbach

Ragnar maintained his database so brilliantly that it became the de facto standard for Harpoon 2 and later Harpoon 3. It was the perfect combination of db2000 and H 3.6 that made H3 really strong.


I am curios if DB2000 works also with Harpoon 3 ANW. I downloaded it and it seems to be readable in ANW database editor, also HHQ scenarios load successfully. Yet I don't know what about full playability because I did not have time to test it long enough.


< Message edited by Spearfish -- 8/21/2010 7:57:26 PM >
Post #: 19
RE: Harpoon - 8/21/2010 8:31:57 PM   
uncleharpoon


Posts: 106
Joined: 11/28/2004
Status: offline 		Folks

We will stop the plagiarism discussion here. No one is going to win this debate. We all have our opinions but Matrix has made it clear that we will NOT be debating this here.

If you want to help the game, then please do so in a positive way.









_____________________________

Don Gilman
AGSI
http://www.computerharpoon.com
http://www.h3milsim.com

(in reply to Vincenzo_Beretta)
Post #: 20
RE: Harpoon - 8/21/2010 8:37:21 PM   
Nebogipfel


Posts: 98
Joined: 3/16/2010
Status: offline 		Hi Spearfish,

the future of harpoon could be a dark one, where only some hardcores will call each other names. Most new gamers won´t like this situation and disappear asap.

If you did read some of the links, you´re able to build your own opinion of the history and situation in the harpoon community.

I think one thing that would defenitly help, would be a product with decreased number of bugs. So it wouldn´t be neccessary to play a special database to have a stable game. So one part of the discussion could be sorted out.

So all we can do is hope, that 3.10 will eliminate some of the bigger issues, so that the scenario designer can focus on for example the linked mission feature, instead of wasting their time with work around solutions.

Anyway have fun

(in reply to Spearfish)
Post #: 21
RE: Harpoon - 8/21/2010 8:44:50 PM   
Spearfish

 

Posts: 75
Joined: 8/17/2010
Status: offline 		Major issues, minor issues...here we are more basic problem: "What is bug and what isn't..."

(in reply to Nebogipfel)
Post #: 22
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