Surprised at night by burning CA's

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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> Uncommon Valor - Campaign for the South Pacific >> Tech Support >> Surprised at night by burning CA's

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Surprised at night by burning CA's - 8/10/2002 7:48:28 AM

akbrown

Posts: 43
Joined: 9/6/2000
From: Melbourne, Australia
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This is a fairly minor thing that I have only seen once so far.

I had a surface combat TF which I sent to Lunga to intercept Japanese transports. They arrived at night and promptly ran into a Japanese surface TF, and they fought it out. After the battle a few of my CA's were in various states of damage. There then followed another night surface engaement by the same force vs a Japanese transport TF. At the start of the second engagement I saw a message saying that both TF's were surprised, and the action opened at a pretty close range. During this second battle my ships were not hit, and they sank a couple of Japanese transports :)

At the start of the next turn I inspected my surface combat TF. As indicated in their first engagement vs the Japanese cruisers, three of my CA's were damaged, and they each had several fires on board (one of them was heavily damaged and had quite a few fires). Since this damage must have occurred during the first engagement, this implies that the Japanese transport TF was surprised, at night, by several burning, and presumably highly visible, US CA's.

I suspect that the UV program, when it determines whether task forces attain surprise at night, do not take into consideration whether there are ships in the task force that have fires on board.
If so then maybe this can be changed?

I know this isn't very important but I thought that I would point it out.

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- 8/10/2002 5:27:05 PM

Spooky

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From: Froggy Land
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We can also assume that the Japanese Transport TF was surprised by your undamaged CAs ... and your damaged CAs joined the battle later ... if ever !

Moreover, a ship could have internal fires with smoke but not highly visible flames ... and smoke cannot be seen in a dark night

Spooky

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Post #: 2

- 8/12/2002 3:04:21 PM

akbrown

Posts: 43
Joined: 9/6/2000
From: Melbourne, Australia
Status: offline

Hi Spooky,

I am not sure about the alternative explanations. From memory, when a group of ships engage in surface combat all of them take part in every round - even ones that begin in a damaged state. I might be wrong about that - I'll keep it in mind the next time I play. As for the fires not being visible, I agree that is possible, but when there are many fires on several ships, and the action takes place at most only a few hours after the previous action, it would be unusual for all of the files to be invisible in the dark, in my view.

I suspect that what is really happening here is that the programmers didn't take the presence of fires on ships into consideration when determining surprise in night surface combats.

I am happy to be proven wrong, however :)

(in reply to akbrown)

Post #: 3

- 8/12/2002 6:42:08 PM

Spooky

Posts: 816
Joined: 4/1/2002
From: Froggy Land
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by akbrown
[B]Hi Spooky,

I am not sure about the alternative explanations. From memory, when a group of ships engage in surface combat all of them take part in every round - even ones that begin in a damaged state. I might be wrong about that - I'll keep it in mind the next time I play. As for the fires not being visible, I agree that is possible, but when there are many fires on several ships, and the action takes place at most only a few hours after the previous action, it would be unusual for all of the files to be invisible in the dark, in my view.

I suspect that what is really happening here is that the programmers didn't take the presence of fires on ships into consideration when determining surprise in night surface combats.

I am happy to be proven wrong, however :) [/B][/QUOTE]

Well, I think like you that eventual fires are probably not taken in consideration for the computing of surprise effects ... but it does not lead to unhistorical results so ... ;)

BTW, damaged ships can of course take part of a naval combat but some ships could be left away - just take a look at the "hidden" ships (ships with no name) during your next night naval combat.

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Post #: 4

- 8/12/2002 9:42:34 PM

Mojo

Posts: 915
Joined: 2/6/2002
From: Portland, Oregon USA
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That surface commander "was surprised" message always cracks me up:D

Here's a guy, steaming into an enemy port at night on a surface combat mission and he finds enemy ships. And he's surprised?!?!?!? By what?

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Post #: 5

Surface Combat at night... - 8/12/2002 9:57:47 PM

Erik Rutins

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
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The "surprised" message is simply an indicator as to the stance of each side. By your description, it simply means that neither commander expected the enemy to be exactly where they were found.

The burning ships would be taken into account in the starting detection level. Ships can't fire at ships that they haven't seen - those burning ships should have been seen and been potential targets for everyone on the enemy side, whereas they would not have picked up as many of the enemy's non-burning ships. The end result is almost always an advantage to the side that has fewer ships detected early on, other things being relatively equal.

Regards,

- Erik

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- 8/12/2002 10:05:56 PM

Mojo

Posts: 915
Joined: 2/6/2002
From: Portland, Oregon USA
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Thanks Erik. That's kind of what I figured the "surprised" message meant.

I just get this image of the commander jumping at the sight of the enemy and squealing like your gf does when you sneak up on her and put your cold hands on her........... back;)

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If something's not working you might want to tunk it a dite.
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(in reply to akbrown)

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