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Patch? - 9/13/2010 1:51:33 AM   
jomni


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Status: offline 		Will the game still be patched?

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RE: Patch? - 9/13/2010 1:54:36 PM   
wdolson

 

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Status: offline 		Yes.

Bill


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Post #: 2
RE: Patch? - 9/13/2010 7:19:24 PM   
Bondo16

 

Posts: 48
Joined: 12/26/2009
Status: offline 		Really??!! Any specifics?

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Post #: 3
RE: Patch? - 9/14/2010 1:53:00 AM   
jomni


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quote:

ORIGINAL: wdolson

Yes.

Bill



Wow! That's was an unexpected answer.

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Post #: 4
RE: Patch? - 9/14/2010 6:45:15 PM   
tocaff


Posts: 4781
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From: USA now in Brasil
Status: offline 		We've know for a long time that a patch was down the line.  It'll be a spinoff of AE, but what it'll address is anybody's guess as of now.

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I never thought that doing an AAR would be so time consuming and difficult.
www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2080768

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Post #: 5
RE: Patch? - 9/14/2010 8:29:30 PM   
flaggelant


Posts: 262
Joined: 1/25/2009
From: Netherlands
Status: offline 		i though standard WITP would be a closed down game, like the dos version?

but i'd say improvement is allways a good thing!!

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Post #: 6
RE: Patch? - 9/14/2010 10:16:09 PM   
tocaff


Posts: 4781
Joined: 10/12/2006
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Status: offline 		This is what makes Matrix different, support and more support down the road.

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I never thought that doing an AAR would be so time consuming and difficult.
www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2080768

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Post #: 7
RE: Patch? - 9/15/2010 2:04:12 AM   
wdolson

 

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Status: offline 		Don't expect a whole lot in a WitP patch, but there has been talk of one.

Bill


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Post #: 8
RE: Patch? - 9/15/2010 3:39:17 AM   
jwilkerson


Posts: 10525
Joined: 9/15/2002
From: Kansas
Status: offline 		Yes there was talk of one. As the guy who was actually working on that patch. Never say never - but currently there is no work being done on a WITP patch - I can say that with certainty.

Other than a few minor bug fixes - all the "enhancements" that might have been done for WITP were done for AE - in fact the original idea for AE was that it would simply be an "enhancement pack" for WITP. The energy of the team pushed this idea way beyond the limits and AE was the result - any future enhancements would thus certainly be done on the AE base - not the WITP base. So there is actually little case for a WITP patch at this point.

I still play WITP myself - just because it is "easier" - like sometimes I would drop back a CIV version and play - just for FUN. But things like way points - and naval support - port limits - certainly make AE both more complex and more accurate.

WITP is still very moddable and some of the mods we've seen even include EXE file changes - probably done with hex editors. One serious problem with WITP is that the save file format is much easier to crack than AE and this limits WITP value as a PBEM platform - but making this change for WITP would feel like turning WITP into AE and we've already done that - so don't need to do it again!

Those are my reasons for abandoning the plan we had to do a WITP patch - so I would say - at this point - there is no such plan.





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RE: Patch? - 9/15/2010 5:03:12 AM   
jomni


Posts: 2827
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Status: offline 		Aw. (T_T) Too bad.  WITP AE is nice but I do not appreciate the added detail. 


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RE: Patch? - 9/15/2010 5:29:34 AM   
jwilkerson


Posts: 10525
Joined: 9/15/2002
From: Kansas
Status: offline 		Not surprised that at least some feel that way ...

I like WPO as well ... it is refreshing to play a true naval game without all those silly aeroplanes!



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Post #: 11
RE: Patch? - 9/19/2010 10:18:52 AM   
Local Yokel


Posts: 1494
Joined: 2/4/2007
From: Somerset, U.K.
Status: offline 		I am deeply disappointed to hear that there will be no patch for WitP.

My only PBEM game having just ended (NikMod CHS scenario), I am considering whether to start another grand campaign involving the war against Japan. No doubt I am in a minority, but I regard AE as being inferior to the CHS version of WitP. Consequently, I am reluctant to embark upon a GC match in AE.

That leaves me with the alternative of starting another CHS GC. A major disincentive is the continued existence of the pilot bug. I certainly do not want to waste a significant part of my precious spare time by devoting it to a match in which my best pilots are liable to disappear in droves three years into the war, due to nothing other than a flaw in the game.

I was always under the impression that AE was intended to complement WitP as a variant aimed at the ultra-grognard. Originally, purchase of AE was to be conditional upon prior purchase of WitP. The rationale for this was that only those familiar with the complexities of the original game could be confident that the increased complexity of AE was for them. The implication was that WitP in original form would continue to be regarded by Matrix as one of its mainstream games. Now, it seems, a decision has been made by the developers to reduce WitP to remainder-ware status.

If such a decision has been taken then, with the pilot bug unresolved, it is one that I deplore. Hard to see where to go from here as a person interested in playing a Japanese war game.

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RE: Patch? - 9/19/2010 1:25:21 PM   
rominet


Posts: 523
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Local Yokel

I am deeply disappointed to hear that there will be no patch for WitP.

My only PBEM game having just ended (NikMod CHS scenario), I am considering whether to start another grand campaign involving the war against Japan. No doubt I am in a minority, but I regard AE as being inferior to the CHS version of WitP. Consequently, I am reluctant to embark upon a GC match in AE.

That leaves me with the alternative of starting another CHS GC. A major disincentive is the continued existence of the pilot bug. I certainly do not want to waste a significant part of my precious spare time by devoting it to a match in which my best pilots are liable to disappear in droves three years into the war, due to nothing other than a flaw in the game.

I was always under the impression that AE was intended to complement WitP as a variant aimed at the ultra-grognard. Originally, purchase of AE was to be conditional upon prior purchase of WitP. The rationale for this was that only those familiar with the complexities of the original game could be confident that the increased complexity of AE was for them. The implication was that WitP in original form would continue to be regarded by Matrix as one of its mainstream games. Now, it seems, a decision has been made by the developers to reduce WitP to remainder-ware status.

If such a decision has been taken then, with the pilot bug unresolved, it is one that I deplore. Hard to see where to go from here as a person interested in playing a Japanese war game.


I agree but this decision (no other patch) was sadly quite predictable.
Except with short scenarii, AE is very complicated to play. I remain a WitP fan.

< Message edited by rominet -- 9/19/2010 1:30:10 PM >

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Post #: 13
RE: Patch? - 9/19/2010 3:14:27 PM   
tocaff


Posts: 4781
Joined: 10/12/2006
From: USA now in Brasil
Status: offline 		Damn!  I was looking forward to the possibility of the pilot bug being squashed.  

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I never thought that doing an AAR would be so time consuming and difficult.
www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2080768

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Post #: 14
RE: Patch? - 9/20/2010 2:08:34 AM   
jomni


Posts: 2827
Joined: 11/19/2007
Status: offline 		I think there are more fans of AE than WITP stragglers like us.  So there's no hope of any patch (at least a fix for the Pilot bug and a better AI).
AE fans are a gutton for detail. Nitpicking every single routine of the game (search arc, pilot raining, radar,etc.).  Sigh.


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Post #: 15
RE: Patch? - 11/7/2010 1:36:02 PM   
n01487477


Posts: 4779
Joined: 2/21/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jwilkerson
Yes there was talk of one. As the guy who was actually working on that patch. Never say never - but currently there is no work being done on a WITP patch - I can say that with certainty.

Other than a few minor bug fixes - all the "enhancements" that might have been done for WITP were done for AE - in fact the original idea for AE was that it would simply be an "enhancement pack" for WITP. The energy of the team pushed this idea way beyond the limits and AE was the result - any future enhancements would thus certainly be done on the AE base - not the WITP base. So there is actually little case for a WITP patch at this point.

I still play WITP myself - just because it is "easier" - like sometimes I would drop back a CIV version and play - just for FUN. But things like way points - and naval support - port limits - certainly make AE both more complex and more accurate.

WITP is still very moddable and some of the mods we've seen even include EXE file changes - probably done with hex editors. One serious problem with WITP is that the save file format is much easier to crack than AE and this limits WITP value as a PBEM platform - but making this change for WITP would feel like turning WITP into AE and we've already done that - so don't need to do it again!

Those are my reasons for abandoning the plan we had to do a WITP patch - so I would say - at this point - there is no such plan.

This is unfortunate but necessary I guess... but I don't think most witp players are asking for AE enhancements or more PBEM security; just a few bugs fixes (pilot bug the most notable) and then we'd be satisfied. It was promised around the time of AE's release that there would be at least one more witp patch.

This is still a great game, more enjoyable than AE in a number of ways as you've stated ... but arguing that additional patches would be mini-AE patches and PBEM security is an issue when most of us are not into cheating & when all is needed & asked for is one or two bug fixes - is not as logical as you usually are ... and not what was promised IIRC.

Now I know that Matrix support it great (WITP Release July 8, 2004 -> last patch 24 MAY 2007). More than most games would ever do ... I know you never said never ... but leaving witp with one game breaking bug does do its legacy a disservice.

I'll even do it for free & I'm sure some other programmers here would do the same (but I doubt even with NDA's we'll be allowed)

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Post #: 16
RE: Patch? - 11/7/2010 3:20:30 PM   
rtrapasso


Posts: 22653
Joined: 9/3/2002
Status: offline 		Actually, MATRIX doesn't support the games except in the form of the forum... almost all (all?) of the support for the last several years has come from the forum users, some of whom organized to rewrite the game into AE.

So, i think we users might think about taking things into our own hands...

They way i understand it, if i company announces they no longer support a product it can be considered abandonware, but i don't know what the legal position of all of this since there still is a forum, that might be considered to be support.

We can ask the AE devs (who know the code) about this. Also, we can ask 2x3 Games people, who did the original code. After all, if the product is still supported, they might continue to get sales, and make a bit of $...

But we users have to make a bit of noise and be willing to do the work.

i am not a programmer type (though i have done some in my time), however, i was the WITP support guy so i know a bit about the game and its problems. i would be willing to help (though not full time! )

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Post #: 17
RE: Patch? - 11/9/2010 10:33:17 AM   
Arstavidios

 

Posts: 780
Joined: 11/19/2004
Status: offline 		Well I suppose the pilot bug should be fixed. Otherwise the game does not need new features. there's AE for that.
Just a matter a fixing the few remaining bugs that may still remain.

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Post #: 18
RE: Patch? - 11/9/2010 12:04:26 PM   
htuna


Posts: 591
Joined: 1/19/2009
From: Boston, MA
Status: offline 		Would be nice if it could do the same Screen Resolution Tweak as AE

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Post #: 19
RE: Patch? - 11/9/2010 11:51:48 PM   
tocaff


Posts: 4781
Joined: 10/12/2006
From: USA now in Brasil
Status: offline 		4 bug fixes for me and I'd be really happy:

Pilot bug

Static LCUs moving and not being able to be moved back (work  around set allow replacements for each individual unit at the base)

Sub set to mine laying switching to combat patrol

TF set to bombard changing to normal combat and not being able to be changed back again (work around disband and reform TF)


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I never thought that doing an AAR would be so time consuming and difficult.
www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2080768

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Post #: 20
RE: Patch? - 11/10/2010 8:48:48 PM   
Mobeer


Posts: 662
Joined: 1/17/2007
Status: offline 		just the pilot bug fixed would be good enough

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Post #: 21
RE: Patch? - 11/11/2010 9:38:01 PM   
rtrapasso


Posts: 22653
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mobeer

just the pilot bug fixed would be good enough

Unfortunately, you need to increase the size of the matrix to permanently fix the pilot bug, and i think that means a restart!!

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Post #: 22
RE: Patch? - 11/12/2010 6:42:48 AM   
jwilkerson


Posts: 10525
Joined: 9/15/2002
From: Kansas
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tocaff

4 bug fixes for me and I'd be really happy:

Pilot bug

Static LCUs moving and not being able to be moved back (work  around set allow replacements for each individual unit at the base)

Sub set to mine laying switching to combat patrol

TF set to bombard changing to normal combat and not being able to be changed back again (work around disband and reform TF)



Note three of these issues are addressed in AE ... so all you have to do to feel these effects is play AE ... as to the "bombardment" issue ... I don't have this issue in WITP so there must be something being lost in the translation. I bombard ... and then switch and bombard again ... I do this alot .. I don't think I've ever seen the issue you describe (in WITP).



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Post #: 23
RE: Patch? - 11/12/2010 12:28:27 PM   
tocaff


Posts: 4781
Joined: 10/12/2006
From: USA now in Brasil
Status: offline 		Only problem for me is that at this point in time I just feel a bit overwhelmed by additional micromanagement required in AE.  This is the feeling I had while playing UV and toying with WITP so I'll probably migrate at some point in time.

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Todd

I never thought that doing an AAR would be so time consuming and difficult.
www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2080768

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Post #: 24
RE: Patch? - 11/13/2010 4:03:04 PM   
jwilkerson


Posts: 10525
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From: Kansas
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tocaff

Only problem for me is that at this point in time I just feel a bit overwhelmed by additional micromanagement required in AE.  This is the feeling I had while playing UV and toying with WITP so I'll probably migrate at some point in time.


After playing UV for 2-3 years - I got WITP - and for the first several months - even just playing against the AI and letting the AI run CBI - I still kept thinking - "I don't think I can ever play this game" - but eventually things clicked and I could do it - I've played seven WITP PBEM Scen15 games went past mid-43 or into mid-44 ... haven't made it past mid-44 in PBEM Scen15 yet.

But I agree AE is even more work incrementally - which is one reason I've been playing it as 2x2 - not quite as overwhelming. But the new patrol zones for submarines really help in AE compared to WITP. In WITP I have to move every submarine (in enemy waters) every turn - or I will probably lose it - that is a lot of button clicking - so this is definitely one area of savings - every turn.

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Post #: 25
RE: Patch? - 11/13/2010 5:48:06 PM   
Alfred

 

Posts: 6685
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quote:

ORIGINAL: jwilkerson


quote:

ORIGINAL: tocaff

Only problem for me is that at this point in time I just feel a bit overwhelmed by additional micromanagement required in AE.  This is the feeling I had while playing UV and toying with WITP so I'll probably migrate at some point in time.


After playing UV for 2-3 years - I got WITP - and for the first several months - even just playing against the AI and letting the AI run CBI - I still kept thinking - "I don't think I can ever play this game" - but eventually things clicked and I could do it - I've played seven WITP PBEM Scen15 games went past mid-43 or into mid-44 ... haven't made it past mid-44 in PBEM Scen15 yet.

But I agree AE is even more work incrementally - which is one reason I've been playing it as 2x2 - not quite as overwhelming. But the new patrol zones for submarines really help in AE compared to WITP. In WITP I have to move every submarine (in enemy waters) every turn - or I will probably lose it - that is a lot of button clicking - so this is definitely one area of savings - every turn.


TF waypoints in AE is another area of savings. Together with threat tolerance it is much easier now to route TF away from danger spots.

Alfred

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Post #: 26
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