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RE: Civ 5 Manual - 9/24/2010 3:39:40 PM   
Barthheart


Posts: 3194
Joined: 7/20/2004
From: Nepean, Ontario
Status: offline 		There are no sliders. If you want more research you need to build more buildings for that... but that costs more in maintenance....

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Post #: 91
RE: Civ 5 Manual - 9/24/2010 3:50:56 PM   
Yogi the Great


Posts: 1948
Joined: 4/10/2007
From: Wisconsin
Status: offline 		Well, we have been through this discussion now a number of times each time a game requires steam.

Some of us hate steam and won't buy a game that has it. I understand fully.

Some love steam and I have no problem with their opinion and decision to buy.

Just a thought, but I have the feeling that some of the people who love steam would still buy Civ V (or Total war or whatever) if it did not have steam. So my guess is that a company loses more sales by requiring steam then they gain from it. That may change over time, but I know when Empire Total War came out that it seemed like quite a few people who loved the series stopped buying the new releases and Civ V is going to go the same way. I suppose the next question is do they turn out ok because of less ability to "share" the game and losing sales that way? Do all of us steam haters eventually surrender as more and more games require it? I guess time will tell.

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Post #: 92
RE: Civ 5 Manual - 9/24/2010 3:55:49 PM   
Lützow


Posts: 1517
Joined: 7/22/2008
From: Germany
Status: offline 		Steam is the still the least problem with Civ 5.

Install Civ 4 along with Warlords and Beyond the Sword - and then compare it to the successor.

< Message edited by Lützow -- 9/24/2010 3:58:58 PM >

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Post #: 93
RE: Civ 5 Manual - 9/24/2010 4:21:00 PM   
Anthropoid


Posts: 3107
Joined: 2/22/2005
From: Secret Underground Lair
Status: offline 		Problems with Steam I have had in the past playing Half Life (might've been Half Life 2).

1. Try to uninstall Steam: it acts like malware.
2. Some years after the successor to the HL game I had on Steam came out (either 2 or 3) I went back to play the game some more and encountered an elevator bug (which was evidently quite common) which was a result of the confluence of "older" game, more recent Windows service packs, and no more support for the older game.

Despite the fact that I still had to use Steam to get the game going (IIRC), I could get ZERO help from Valve to fix the bug. Their policy was: it is an old game, a more recent version of the game is now being supported. Therefore they were unwilling/unable to provide any support for the predecessor game.

That was when I said: No more, a commitment I have stuck to so far.

So I what I gather from this is: the idea that Steam is supposed to be "better support" is illusory. It is piracy protection plain and simple, and quite likely has unproven necessity or effectiveness at achieving that goal, not to mention that it imposes on players. Add to that that, based on past experience that I do not expect Valve or anyone else to be support Civ5 via Steam five years from now . . . why would I agree to buy their product and subject myself to their networking hoops and loops based on their past demonstration of their lack of support and indeed, exploitative consumer policy?

I have heard other people complain about other things, including buggy/laggy performance, software conflicts and problems switching to other computers.

Perhaps these problems are less of an issue today, my last experience with Steam was like 5 or 10 years ago . . . however, I've heard other gamers who had problems with it more recently (specifically Empire Total Frustration taking hours on hours to DL).

< Message edited by Anthropoid -- 9/24/2010 4:23:22 PM >

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Post #: 94
RE: Civ 5 Manual - 9/24/2010 4:37:52 PM   
xaal70

 

Posts: 1
Joined: 9/24/2010
Status: offline 		test

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Post #: 95
RE: Civ 5 Manual - 9/24/2010 7:15:29 PM   
LarryP


Posts: 3783
Joined: 5/15/2005
From: Carson City, NV
Status: offline 		Have you read the forums about Civ-V? The bad reports are really coming in now. Lockups galore among other issues. I played the 100 turn demo and it drove me back to Civ-IV with it's expansions. Been having an excellent time. Civ-V should be on sale by Christmas with some patches.

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Post #: 96
RE: Civ 5 Manual - 9/24/2010 8:28:03 PM   
Hard Sarge


Posts: 22741
Joined: 10/1/2000
From: garfield hts ohio usa
Status: offline 		odd, has run great for me, no issues with game play (AI seems to cheat like a nasty dog !) (but that could be more I don't know what I am doing yet)

doing much better as a German then I was with the randoms leaders :)


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Post #: 97
RE: Civ 5 Manual - 9/24/2010 8:51:13 PM   
Cmdrcain


Posts: 1161
Joined: 8/21/2000
From: Rebuilding FLA, Busy Repairing!
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: hewwo

Actually, I wish matrix would give up their own archaic system and use something like steam or impulse.




BITE your HANDS!

Matrix is not archaic , matrix is far better because you do not have to log into some service
and go through hoops never mind it compromising your PC's security

Serial codes... any smart person would keep in a pocket memo...several... and keep one of them somewhere else... bank box.. ... allows one to still install games and patchs ...again backup the game install prg and all updates in multiple copys... on CD/Dvd's, backup HDD, backed up on other PC's HDD..

Where having to log into a service to INSTALL what you legally bought is absurd..

(Sides I am sure that any real pirates already can crack any steam game to install it...theres NO such thing as an absolute secure copy prot scheme all they do is burden legitimate users..)


Day Matrix issues games via a service like steam is day they loss me.




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Post #: 98
RE: Civ 5 Manual - 9/24/2010 9:01:16 PM   
Cmdrcain


Posts: 1161
Joined: 8/21/2000
From: Rebuilding FLA, Busy Repairing!
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

I'm not sure you could choose a nation leader anyway - you could choose a nation, but the leader was assigned to you from what I recall in Civ IV



No, you did have in instances different choices but the choices were tied to the nation so you could use queen elizabeth or a different british leader for instance.

Some nations may have only had one choice.



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Post #: 99
RE: Civ 5 Manual - 9/24/2010 9:08:21 PM   
Hard Sarge


Posts: 22741
Joined: 10/1/2000
From: garfield hts ohio usa
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: doomtrader

I've been playing for half an hour today and it looks fun.

Anybody knows how to adjust budget and increase science funds? (probably that's in the manual, but who reads manuals).


if I see it right, it is in the city screen, you can set what that city is trying to do, so, if you want some of your cities working only (mostly ?) on Science, you can set it that way

(not sure if I remember seeing science, I did see food, production, culture, gold and what not)


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Post #: 100
RE: Civ 5 Manual - 9/24/2010 9:17:01 PM   
Cmdrcain


Posts: 1161
Joined: 8/21/2000
From: Rebuilding FLA, Busy Repairing!
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Anthropoid

Problems with Steam I have had in the past playing Half Life (might've been Half Life 2).

1. Try to uninstall Steam: it acts like malware.



It is malware :)






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Post #: 101
RE: Civ 5 Manual - 9/24/2010 10:16:44 PM   
LarryP


Posts: 3783
Joined: 5/15/2005
From: Carson City, NV
Status: offline 		Hard Sarge, check this forum post out: Civ4 Veteran Post

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Post #: 102
RE: Civ 5 Manual - 9/25/2010 12:05:45 AM   
parusski


Posts: 4804
Joined: 5/8/2000
From: Jackson Tn
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LarryP

Have you read the forums about Civ-V? The bad reports are really coming in now. Lockups galore among other issues. I played the 100 turn demo and it drove me back to Civ-IV with it's expansions. Been having an excellent time. Civ-V should be on sale by Christmas with some patches.


Larry are you ever correct. I have a system that should handle running anything in the world. But the game I've been waiting for all these years locks up my computer tighter than a bank vault, usually after a few moves of turn one. All I can do is a hard reboot. So I too am right back to Civ-IV.

What a let down.

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Post #: 103
RE: Civ 5 Manual - 9/25/2010 12:24:01 AM   
JudgeDredd


Posts: 8573
Joined: 11/14/2003
From: Scotland
Status: offline 		Steam is not Malware - you might not like it - but it's not malware

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Post #: 104
RE: Civ 5 Manual - 9/25/2010 1:07:13 AM   
LarryP


Posts: 3783
Joined: 5/15/2005
From: Carson City, NV
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: parusski
quote:

ORIGINAL: LarryP

Have you read the forums about Civ-V? The bad reports are really coming in now. Lockups galore among other issues. I played the 100 turn demo and it drove me back to Civ-IV with it's expansions. Been having an excellent time. Civ-V should be on sale by Christmas with some patches.


Larry are you ever correct. I have a system that should handle running anything in the world. But the game I've been waiting for all these years locks up my computer tighter than a bank vault, usually after a few moves of turn one. All I can do is a hard reboot. So I too am right back to Civ-IV.

What a let down.


That is a let down. I hate that feeling of looking forward to a game release date, only to have it crash right away. Especially when it requires the off button. Ouch! Most of the lockups I have read about are with the higher end rigs, multi core, Windows 7, etc.. I bet Firaxis will issue a patch soon that corrects that issue, along with fixing the intro movie issue. That's a big one too. I had a problem with that on my desktop but I just waited it out and the main menu finally came around. This of course was with the demo.

I like the smooth menus in Civ-V, they are very easy to get used to. I also like the help that is everywhere. I realize it is a lot different than it's predecessors, and for me that's OK, but reading about the lockups causes me to want to wait until it's cheaper.

Back to the original thread post, the manual is extremely nice to read. Full color and pictures that enlarge. I wish all manuals could be this nice.

I personally find no fault in the game, but I do like Civ-IV better. Sid just made a different game in the series and that is making a lot of hard core Civ fans angry. It will be interesting to see what mods will make of the game and also a couple of patches. I believe it will end up being another excellent one in the series after all is done, but having it ONLY on Steam is kind of a low blow to some gamers. I find no fault in Steam, but there was a day when I did, more than others.

(in reply to parusski)
Post #: 105
RE: Civ 5 Manual - 9/25/2010 6:41:17 AM   
ilovestrategy


Posts: 3611
Joined: 6/11/2005
From: San Diego
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Yogi the Great

Well, we have been through this discussion now a number of times each time a game requires steam.

Some of us hate steam and won't buy a game that has it. I understand fully.

Some love steam and I have no problem with their opinion and decision to buy.

Just a thought, but I have the feeling that some of the people who love steam would still buy Civ V (or Total war or whatever) if it did not have steam. So my guess is that a company loses more sales by requiring steam then they gain from it. That may change over time, but I know when Empire Total War came out that it seemed like quite a few people who loved the series stopped buying the new releases and Civ V is going to go the same way. I suppose the next question is do they turn out ok because of less ability to "share" the game and losing sales that way? Do all of us steam haters eventually surrender as more and more games require it? I guess time will tell.



Oh for sure, I would still buy Civ V regardless of whether Steam was needed or not. This is a good post, I like it a lot.

_____________________________

After 16 years, Civ II still has me in it's clutches LOL!!!
Now CIV IV has me in it's evil clutches!

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Post #: 106
RE: Civ 5 Manual - 9/25/2010 7:08:15 AM   
JudgeDredd


Posts: 8573
Joined: 11/14/2003
From: Scotland
Status: offline 		Whilst they undoubtedly lose sales for using Steam in much the same way companies used to lose sales for using Starforce (me and pretty much anything running Starforce), or lose sales because of the multiplayer method they use (me and Modern Warfare 2) or some companies lose sales because of the price point of a game (me and BftB), the proof is always presented to them (not us) in the form of cold hard cash going in the door.

To be honest, I don't think Firaxis will be suffering anytime soon with lost sales. Sure, by removing Steam they could've increased sales...but I think they're probably doing alright on money. As I type this at 7am, there are 38,000+ players playing Civilisation V - that's revenue in the region of over £1m.


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Post #: 107
RE: Civ 5 Manual - 9/25/2010 8:33:59 AM   
martok


Posts: 837
Joined: 8/30/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: diablo1

And let's not forget Medieval Total War the best Total War of them all. How old is it now? That XL mod for it made it almost the perfect game.

+1

I live in terror of the day -- a day which I fear is coming all too soon -- when I have to replace my video card, as I know there's a good chance I won't be able to play MTW/VI anymore. I'll probably get an ATI card (they have less trouble running the game than Nvidias), but I know from others' experience that I might still be screwed regardless.




quote:

ORIGINAL: ilovestrategy

It's a good game but my fav is Rome Total War. Been playing it since it first came out. "The day is ouuuuurs!" That game is a war mongers dream come true!

I weep bitter tears for you.




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Post #: 108
RE: Civ 5 Manual - 9/25/2010 12:25:17 PM   
Anthropoid


Posts: 3107
Joined: 2/22/2005
From: Secret Underground Lair
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LarryP

Hard Sarge, check this forum post out: Civ4 Veteran Post


Wow, that is very sad to read

It sounds to me like some poor strategic decisions at the project management level, that are further elaborations of the trend I observed b/w Civ3 and Civ4: movement away from a true strategy game and toward an interactive cartoon.

quote:

because the majority of their time isn't spent on AI (2 programmers - and that divided between several areas not just combat) but on art (10-20 artists?).


I never even knew there was a 2K forums. Imagine if the Civ devs made use of forums like the WCS, 2x3, Slitherine, AGEOD, PI, folks do on forums like this one, Paradox, Ageod, etc.

I suppose part of the problem would be too much feedback could spoil the pot, but this collaborative marketer-consumer approach to making a better mousetrap certainly seems to have worked for WiTP. Whats more, had it been a theme that the Devs declared as inviolable, this approach could conceivably render a game that, by virtue of multiple "Optional module setting" (see WCS options to have a more complicated or simpler version of FoF or CoGEE) the game could simultaneously appeal to both less-intense newbcomers to strategy games and us crotchity grogs who want it to make historical sense and be highly detailed.

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Post #: 109
RE: Civ 5 Manual - 9/25/2010 1:19:20 PM   
ilovestrategy


Posts: 3611
Joined: 6/11/2005
From: San Diego
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: martok

quote:

ORIGINAL: diablo1

And let's not forget Medieval Total War the best Total War of them all. How old is it now? That XL mod for it made it almost the perfect game.

+1

I live in terror of the day -- a day which I fear is coming all too soon -- when I have to replace my video card, as I know there's a good chance I won't be able to play MTW/VI anymore. I'll probably get an ATI card (they have less trouble running the game than Nvidias), but I know from others' experience that I might still be screwed regardless.




quote:

ORIGINAL: ilovestrategy

It's a good game but my fav is Rome Total War. Been playing it since it first came out. "The day is ouuuuurs!" That game is a war mongers dream come true!

I weep bitter tears for you.






Somehow, I think I'm gonna be ok. Thanks for your concern though. Damn, the Spanish Capital revolted and kicked my army out of the city. So much for occupying. This time I'm gonna to use option 3, exterminate the populace!

_____________________________

After 16 years, Civ II still has me in it's clutches LOL!!!
Now CIV IV has me in it's evil clutches!

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Post #: 110
RE: Civ 5 Manual - 9/26/2010 3:25:18 AM   
ezzler

 

Posts: 863
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline 		Played it for about 8 hours. Lousy steam wouldn't let me install it first, but soon sorted that by uninstalling, reinstalling steam.
Game is terrific. Best Civ yet. much, much better than 4 which was a real letdown. And 4 at leaked memory terribly at the game end. Very impressed with this. Bought F1 2010 at the same time today and that didn't even get out of the box today.

(in reply to ilovestrategy)
Post #: 111
RE: Civ 5 Manual - 9/26/2010 3:41:27 AM   
GaryChildress

 

Posts: 6830
Joined: 7/17/2005
From: The Divided Nations of Earth
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Cmdrcain


quote:

ORIGINAL: hewwo

Actually, I wish matrix would give up their own archaic system and use something like steam or impulse.




BITE your HANDS!



No kidding!! I wish Steam and other game companies followed the Matrix model. Matrix is by far the MOST convenient of all game companies I have yet encountered. No disk needed to run their games, you can do the DL/physical combo which is perfect for me because I like to play the DL copy and keep the physical copy, unopened as a collector's item. I have a feeling in 15 years some of these games will be true classics!

Matrix is light years ahead of Steam.

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Post #: 112
RE: Civ 5 Manual - 9/26/2010 8:30:13 AM   
hadberz


Posts: 1629
Joined: 5/11/2000
From: Moncks Corner, SC
Status: offline 		If I could do it all over again, I would wait for the price to drop and buy it later. The gameplay changes are not too bad, but the crashing is pure bs. DX10/11 mode crashes within minutes, ok no biggie maybe its drivers. DX 9 works, works great until I get to late game and then it crashes. I try again with a old save, no go it crashes at the same spot. Then I read about GPU overheating over at 2K forums, so check my temps, 80 cel, I don't think I have any other game that runs so hot. Elemental has been more stable for me and that game had issues on release. I really hope they release another patch that fixes this crap soon.

(in reply to GaryChildress)
Post #: 113
RE: Civ 5 Manual - 9/26/2010 9:17:46 AM   
ilovestrategy


Posts: 3611
Joined: 6/11/2005
From: San Diego
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: hadberz

If I could do it all over again, I would wait for the price to drop and buy it later. The gameplay changes are not too bad, but the crashing is pure bs. DX10/11 mode crashes within minutes, ok no biggie maybe its drivers. DX 9 works, works great until I get to late game and then it crashes. I try again with a old save, no go it crashes at the same spot. Then I read about GPU overheating over at 2K forums, so check my temps, 80 cel, I don't think I have any other game that runs so hot. Elemental has been more stable for me and that game had issues on release. I really hope they release another patch that fixes this crap soon.



That's scary! I just might hold off on hearing this!

_____________________________

After 16 years, Civ II still has me in it's clutches LOL!!!
Now CIV IV has me in it's evil clutches!

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Post #: 114
RE: Civ 5 Manual - 9/26/2010 2:53:35 PM   
Obsolete


Posts: 1492
Joined: 9/4/2007
Status: offline
quote:

but the crashing is pure bs


I agree 100%.  The crashing so far is the worst I can recall in any game I have played in the past.  And I have played some really ****ty games in the past.  On top of this, the on-line aspect is rather broken since those fancy smancy treaties never expire when they should and you can add 100 + 1 more game-breakers to that list, you see where this is going.

Best to wait a while and see where this goes.  Sad to say, Firaxis' reputation as far as bug-patches go has been going downhill over the years.



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Post #: 115
RE: Civ 5 Manual - 9/26/2010 3:19:43 PM   
vonRocko

 

Posts: 1447
Joined: 11/4/2008
Status: offline 		I've played two complete games without a crash! Not even a glitch. I feel bad for those experiencing crashes, but I've played it since release and have not had a single problem. Good Luck!

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Post #: 116
RE: Civ 5 Manual - 9/26/2010 3:36:08 PM   
Hard Sarge


Posts: 22741
Joined: 10/1/2000
From: garfield hts ohio usa
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LarryP

Hard Sarge, check this forum post out: Civ4 Veteran Post


I am still early in my game (and I never was able to get much past the 2nd level in Diff in the old games :)

but I can agree with most of what he is saying, I see the same things already

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Post #: 117
RE: Civ 5 Manual - 9/26/2010 3:37:25 PM   
Hard Sarge


Posts: 22741
Joined: 10/1/2000
From: garfield hts ohio usa
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: parusski


quote:

ORIGINAL: LarryP

Have you read the forums about Civ-V? The bad reports are really coming in now. Lockups galore among other issues. I played the 100 turn demo and it drove me back to Civ-IV with it's expansions. Been having an excellent time. Civ-V should be on sale by Christmas with some patches.


Larry are you ever correct. I have a system that should handle running anything in the world. But the game I've been waiting for all these years locks up my computer tighter than a bank vault, usually after a few moves of turn one. All I can do is a hard reboot. So I too am right back to Civ-IV.

What a let down.


hmmm, maybe luck of the draw, it runs fine on my puter (but I am set up for Flight simming and those are a little better then most)



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Post #: 118
RE: Civ 5 Manual - 9/26/2010 6:43:16 PM   
ezzler

 

Posts: 863
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline 		Not a single crash.Runs fine.Plays fine. No melting systems or making a tea and coming back to find the monitor is on fire. AI was ok on the easy level. Its never going to win, but its early years gameplay was good enough to grab a continent for itself.
Guess its just luck of the draw on video cards and such.

I had to wait 4-6 weeks to play WiTP after its release. Sound card issues I think.
Most people weren't effected by them.

(in reply to Hard Sarge)
Post #: 119
RE: Civ 5 Manual - 9/26/2010 7:44:51 PM   
hadberz


Posts: 1629
Joined: 5/11/2000
From: Moncks Corner, SC
Status: offline 		I don't know what the DX11/10 crash is about, but I think the late game DX9 mode crash is a memory leak. The Civ 5 exe was using 1.8GB of memory right before it crashes. I am playing huge map, max AI players, max video settings. The max video settings are the Civ 5 defaults. I lowered the settings, but man does it look ugly. To compare I've had better stability from Elemental and that game had issue on release. Think I will just wait for the next patch and save myself the frustration.

(in reply to ezzler)
Post #: 120
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