Matrix Games Forums

 Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

RE: AAR HSG Urrah

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> Panzer Command: Ostfront >> RE: AAR HSG Urrah Page: <<   < prev  2 3 4 [5] 6   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: AAR HSG Urrah - 10/7/2010 8:36:27 PM   
Mad Russian


Posts: 13256
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: offline 		Here is the entire company's fire and maneuver plan.

Good Hunting.

MR




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to Mad Russian)
Post #: 121
RE: AAR HSG Urrah - 10/7/2010 8:42:20 PM   
Mad Russian


Posts: 13256
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: offline 		The fighting is getting heavy and we are taking heavy losses. Sgt Schmidt has been killed. We have lost our leader for the platoon. There will be another one take over as commander but there is a delay.

Not sure we can afford a delay out there. We'll soon see.

Good Hunting.

MR




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to Mad Russian)
Post #: 122
RE: AAR HSG Urrah - 10/7/2010 8:44:31 PM   
Mad Russian


Posts: 13256
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: offline 		Here is the view across the battlefield.

Good Hunting.

MR




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to Mad Russian)
Post #: 123
RE: AAR HSG Urrah - 10/7/2010 8:46:09 PM   
Mad Russian


Posts: 13256
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: offline 		Taking screen shots in the game is very easy. Simply hit F8 and it takes a screen shot for you. The one I just posted for Reaction Phase of Turn 23 was number 172 I took to do this AAR.

Good Hunting.

MR


_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to Mad Russian)
Post #: 124
RE: AAR HSG Urrah - 10/9/2010 5:14:50 AM   
Mad Russian


Posts: 13256
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: offline 		The Soviet Victory Gauge is moving very close the top. Either we need to break a Soviet unit and get inside the village to turn some of these flags at least yellow or we will lose this battle.

Good Hunting.

MR




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to Mad Russian)
Post #: 125
RE: AAR HSG Urrah - 10/9/2010 5:16:43 AM   
Mad Russian


Posts: 13256
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: offline 		The smoke around our left-hand squad is protecting them from fire from the outside. Allowing them to go toe to toe with the Russians in the house.

Good Hunting.

MR




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to Mad Russian)
Post #: 126
RE: AAR HSG Urrah - 10/9/2010 5:18:14 AM   
Mad Russian


Posts: 13256
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: offline 		The fact that our Victory Level is going down and the Soviet gauge keeps going up is not good. This fight is all but over.

I just don't need to lose any more men.

Good Hunting.

MR




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to Mad Russian)
Post #: 127
RE: AAR HSG Urrah - 10/9/2010 5:20:47 AM   
Mad Russian


Posts: 13256
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: offline 		The game ended. Here is a view of the battlefield.

Good Hunting.

MR




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to Mad Russian)
Post #: 128
RE: AAR HSG Urrah - 10/9/2010 5:21:30 AM   
Mad Russian


Posts: 13256
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: offline 		And another view.

Good Hunting.

MR




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to Mad Russian)
Post #: 129
RE: AAR HSG Urrah - 10/9/2010 5:26:23 AM   
Mad Russian


Posts: 13256
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: offline 		Here is the end of game rating.

Just what I was trying to avoid. A Legendary Loss! Seems a bit of a harsh result with a 41-59% loss. I did lose 4 squads and that's heavy losses for an infantry company of only 9 squads.

Oh well, it's back to the infantry for me.

This scenario playtest was interesting. The scenario lasted 24/80 second turns, or 32 minutes. That's a good time. The action wasn't the world's most fluid but it was different and I thought interesting with the challenges it presented.



I made the following changes.

1) I reduced the map size by almost half. Down from 2km on a side (4 sq.km) to 1.5km per side (2.25 sq.km) and greatly increased the tree coverage on the map.

2) I added 3 German snipers to use as scouts.

3) I added a 2 tube 81mm mortar section with only 40% ammo load out.

4) I changed all the buildings on the map but 2 to a light structure.

5) Changes zfar from 750 down to 550. This should shorten the LOS distance that units can engage at. That will give the Germans an advantage because they can get closer before being seen. This is after all a dawn attack at 0400.

Thanks for going along with me, on my first assault of a Russian village, as solely a German infantry commander. It was different.

Good Hunting.

MR




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Mad Russian -- 10/9/2010 5:04:48 PM >

_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to Mad Russian)
Post #: 130
RE: AAR HSG Urrah - 10/9/2010 7:25:49 AM   
rickier65

 

Posts: 14231
Joined: 4/20/2000
Status: offline 		Thanks for the AAR! it was interesting. I'm looking forward to trying it out.

Rick

(in reply to Mad Russian)
Post #: 131
RE: AAR HSG Urrah - 10/10/2010 12:03:17 PM   
RockinHarry


Posts: 2963
Joined: 1/18/2001
From: Germany
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mad Russian

Here is the end of game rating.

Just what I was trying to avoid. A Legendary Loss! Seems a bit of a harsh result with a 41-59% loss. I did lose 4 squads and that's heavy losses for an infantry company of only 9 squads.

Oh well, it's back to the infantry for me.

This scenario playtest was interesting. The scenario lasted 24/80 second turns, or 32 minutes. That's a good time. The action wasn't the world's most fluid but it was different and I thought interesting with the challenges it presented.



I made the following changes.

1) I reduced the map size by almost half. Down from 2km on a side (4 sq.km) to 1.5km per side (2.25 sq.km) and greatly increased the tree coverage on the map.

2) I added 3 German snipers to use as scouts.

3) I added a 2 tube 81mm mortar section with only 40% ammo load out.

4) I changed all the buildings on the map but 2 to a light structure.

5) Changes zfar from 750 down to 550. This should shorten the LOS distance that units can engage at. That will give the Germans an advantage because they can get closer before being seen. This is after all a dawn attack at 0400.

Thanks for going along with me, on my first assault of a Russian village, as solely a German infantry commander. It was different.

Good Hunting.

MR





I´d say the outcome is not a surprise actually. Agree that the map is too big for a slightly reinforced company battle. You even could actually shrink down to 500x500m.

As is, the battle appeared to be more of a "reccon in force". Adding the mortars is right to go, when speaking of more of an assault like battle. There´s not enough LOS to have HMGs going with the forward troops, which would be nessecary.

Instead of adding snipers as "reccon troops", I´d rather add more game turns and real reccon half (or full) squads, in case the games OOB have any. 1-2 for a company size force would be realistic.

Realistically, light building types are more of a death trap, if they got cover attributes right in the game. Just some figure:

Effective cover vs. rifle and machine gun fire (minimum):

soft wood: 0.9m
hard wood: 0.75m
brick stone walls: 0.65m
soil: 1.1 to 1.4m
sandbags: 0.7m

Probably most of the russian hoods and wooden buildings do not fall into these categories and they most likely get sieved easily, not taking wooden splinters into account.

So as russian, I´d like rather be in foxholes and have HMGs further back, with appropiate fields of fire and frontally protected with ordinary infantry.

Just some loud thinking

_____________________________

RockinHarry in the web:

https://www.facebook.com/harry.zann

(in reply to Mad Russian)
Post #: 132
RE: AAR HSG Urrah - 10/10/2010 2:15:58 PM   
Ron

 

Posts: 506
Joined: 6/6/2002
Status: offline 		Reading this and your Clash of the Titans AAR, I am struck again by the generous LOS/LOF through forested areas. To me it seems quite counter-intuitive graphically as well as realistically. I don't have Kharkov installed anymore so can you explain this in more detail? Thanks



(in reply to RockinHarry)
Post #: 133
RE: AAR HSG Urrah - 10/10/2010 4:24:00 PM   
Mad Russian


Posts: 13256
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RockinHarry

I´d say the outcome is not a surprise actually. Agree that the map is too big for a slightly reinforced company battle. You even could actually shrink down to 500x500m.


Well, I'm not as good at designing scenarios as you are.

I just put the main parts together and play them out to see where it all goes the first time. In this instance I brought you guys along with me.

quote:


As is, the battle appeared to be more of a "reccon in force". Adding the mortars is right to go, when speaking of more of an assault like battle. There´s not enough LOS to have HMGs going with the forward troops, which would be nessecary.


For the heavy MG stands I would agree but they could have gone to just the bipod with belt feed. That would have made them more mobile and still given the fire support of the HMG. They would be even more influential to the outcome of the battle with all that firepower delivered at close range.

quote:


Instead of adding snipers as "reccon troops", I´d rather add more game turns and real reccon half (or full) squads, in case the games OOB have any. 1-2 for a company size force would be realistic.


At the moment there are no reconn company elements in PCO. I'm sure that within a couple of months of release PCO will have all kinds of new units. A lot of them infantry types being done.

quote:


Realistically, light building types are more of a death trap, if they got cover attributes right in the game. Just some figure:

Effective cover vs. rifle and machine gun fire (minimum):

soft wood: 0.9m
hard wood: 0.75m
brick stone walls: 0.65m
soil: 1.1 to 1.4m
sandbags: 0.7m

Probably most of the russian hoods and wooden buildings do not fall into these categories and they most likely get sieved easily, not taking wooden splinters into account.


Probably not but I'll work with what the game gives me to balance the scenario at the moment.

quote:


So as russian, I´d like rather be in foxholes and have HMGs further back, with appropiate fields of fire and frontally protected with ordinary infantry.

Just some loud thinking


My Russian setup was for a garrison unit that got caught. You know the ones. The ones that were inside the buildings eating breakfast at dawn.

There is a lot that can be done with this. I'll keep on playtesting until I get it where I want it. Hopefully, this campaign will make the release. If not I'll release it later.

Good Hunting.

MR


_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to RockinHarry)
Post #: 134
RE: AAR HSG Urrah - 10/10/2010 10:25:28 PM   
heinrich55

 

Posts: 353
Joined: 5/31/2004
Status: offline 		MR,
Thanks for posting. It was great fun seeing the battle unfold. I enjoyed seeing the process of playtesting that essentially this was. It also gives us a good feel for how infantry type operations can unfold in PCO. Very nicely done.

Heinrich55

(in reply to Mad Russian)
Post #: 135
RE: AAR HSG Urrah - 10/11/2010 9:53:21 AM   
RockinHarry


Posts: 2963
Joined: 1/18/2001
From: Germany
Status: offline 		Looking forward to the next one as well! ...and as said, just some loud thinking here, maybe a leftover desease from TPG times.

_____________________________

RockinHarry in the web:

https://www.facebook.com/harry.zann

(in reply to heinrich55)
Post #: 136
RE: AAR HSG Urrah - 10/11/2010 12:59:20 PM   
Mad Russian


Posts: 13256
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RockinHarry

Looking forward to the next one as well! ...and as said, just some loud thinking here, maybe a leftover desease from TPG times.


You go ahead, where my scenarios are concerned, and do loud thinking anytime you want. I can use all the help I can get. Hopefully everybody involved with PCO will catch that same TPG (The Proving Grounds) disease. It's the one to have!

Good Hunting.

MR

< Message edited by Mad Russian -- 10/11/2010 1:00:46 PM >

_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to RockinHarry)
Post #: 137
RE: AAR HSG Urrah - 10/11/2010 5:01:44 PM   
RocketMan


Posts: 718
Joined: 7/19/2004
From: Delaware, USA
Status: offline 		Mad Russian,

In looking over the screenshot of the final view of the battlefield it looks to me like the Russians have as many troops as the Germans do by counting the unit coins. So it is not really a surprise the Germans couldn't make much headway in the scenario. It is hard to perform a successful attack without superior numbers.

(in reply to Mad Russian)
Post #: 138
RE: AAR HSG Urrah - 10/11/2010 5:48:45 PM   
Mad Russian


Posts: 13256
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: offline 		Well, you know......in Russia, numbers are numbers........there are modifiers involved in that. The Russians are mostly green, while the Germans are Veteran or Elite.

I tried to isolate the defense and attack only a part of it at any one time.

We tried several things. Every time I play PCO I learn a bit more. Still trying to get the AI to work the way I want it to.

Good Hunting.

MR


_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to RocketMan)
Post #: 139
RE: AAR HSG Urrah - 10/11/2010 6:33:09 PM   
RocketMan


Posts: 718
Joined: 7/19/2004
From: Delaware, USA
Status: offline 		I was going to suggest changing the experience levels of the units, but of course you already did that. Can you make some of the Russian squads damaged at the start of the battle to simulate the fact that they were caught unprepared? I doubt you can freeze some Russian squads for a few turns, which would simulate being caught unprepared, but could you add some of the units in the back part of the village as reinforcements? Also, you might want to start the Germans on the other side of the village, and much closer to the village at start. This would allow them to use the drop off to hide themselves from the Russians in most of the village during their approach.

Just some suggestions.

(in reply to Mad Russian)
Post #: 140
RE: AAR HSG Urrah - 10/12/2010 3:13:46 AM   
Mad Russian


Posts: 13256
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Gerry

Hello:

This scenario does not show dense forest terrain - looks like the area is very thinly populated with trees? I think even regular wooded areas would have trees closer together. Are there other maps with dense woods/forest?

Thanks,

Gerry



Take a look at this thread to see how I changed the map for this campaign.

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2590453&mpage=3

Good Hunting.

MR


_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to Gerry4321)
Post #: 141
RE: AAR HSG Urrah - 10/18/2010 2:08:48 AM   
Gerry4321

 

Posts: 874
Joined: 3/24/2003
Status: offline 		Any chance of another AAR? Maybe a combined-arms scenario this time? Any period would be fine but maybe a later Eastern Front scenario would show us something different than Kharkov.

Thanks, Gerry

(in reply to Mad Russian)
Post #: 142
RE: AAR HSG Urrah - 10/18/2010 2:21:29 AM   
Mad Russian


Posts: 13256
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: offline 		Different than Kharkov?

What do you mean?

Good Hunting.

MR


_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to Gerry4321)
Post #: 143
RE: AAR HSG Urrah - 10/18/2010 2:40:33 AM   
Gerry4321

 

Posts: 874
Joined: 3/24/2003
Status: offline 		Sorry I wasn't clearer. Many people have PCK so know the Kharkov maps, equipment, etc. So it would be nice to see something like Kursk/Stalingrad/ approaching Berlin instead. Again, I would be happy with any AAR. Fill the time until Ostfront is ready. I am guessing it is getting closer to a Jan 1. deadline than a November one.
Gerry

(in reply to Mad Russian)
Post #: 144
RE: AAR HSG Urrah - 10/18/2010 5:32:09 AM   
Mad Russian


Posts: 13256
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: offline 		Well, nothing I've done AAR's on have been from the Kharkov maps. But I don't really want to do AAR's on all of the scenarios I may put in the game either. I'd like you guys to see some of them for yourselves without seeing me play them first....

Good Hunting.

MR


< Message edited by Mad Russian -- 10/18/2010 2:58:40 PM >

_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to Gerry4321)
Post #: 145
RE: AAR HSG Urrah - 10/18/2010 6:13:39 AM   
junk2drive


Posts: 12907
Joined: 6/27/2002
From: Arizona West Coast
Status: offline 		MR, do a random battle on the Niemirow map.

(in reply to Mad Russian)
Post #: 146
RE: AAR HSG Urrah - 10/18/2010 6:20:48 AM   
Mobius


Posts: 10339
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: California
Status: offline 		Or on Kolomak1 or Kolomak2 as no scenarios are on those maps.

(in reply to junk2drive)
Post #: 147
RE: AAR HSG Urrah - 10/18/2010 2:58:36 PM   
Mad Russian


Posts: 13256
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: junk2drive

MR, do a random battle on the Niemirow map.


You're the Random Battle King J2D you do one for them.

Or better yet with them.

Good Hunting.

MR

_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to junk2drive)
Post #: 148
RE: AAR HSG Urrah - 10/18/2010 7:26:47 PM   
RockinHarry


Posts: 2963
Joined: 1/18/2001
From: Germany
Status: offline 		Since we clubbed the forest topic almost to death, I´d like to see something in urban terrain this time! I´ve seen somme nice SS with railyards, big buildings ect. Year doesn´t matter to me, maybe 1941 or 1944.

I guess something like river crossing isn´t implemented yet?

_____________________________

RockinHarry in the web:

https://www.facebook.com/harry.zann

(in reply to Mad Russian)
Post #: 149
RE: AAR HSG Urrah - 10/18/2010 7:53:55 PM   
rickier65

 

Posts: 14231
Joined: 4/20/2000
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RockinHarry

I guess something like river crossing isn´t implemented yet?


what do you mean? no rafts, but bridges of course.

thanks
rick

(in reply to RockinHarry)
Post #: 150
Page:   <<   < prev  2 3 4 [5] 6   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> Panzer Command: Ostfront >> RE: AAR HSG Urrah Page: <<   < prev  2 3 4 [5] 6   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

5.330