Slitherine

quote:

ORIGINAL: topeverest

Gary,

I'd be interested too.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shark7

Didn't the Alt_Naval assume the enlargement of the major launching slips and fitting docks though? At least I seem to remember that from browsing the site before it went down.

quote:

ORIGINAL: JWE

Thought you might like a list of construction yards that provided ships to the IJN during the war period. No warranty about the pre-war period. Only the NSYs and civilian yards in bold built warships from DDs on up (assumes Matsu was a DD). The rest built the little things (Es, SCs, auxPBs, etc ..). Civilian yards also had to build large numbers of replacement cargo and tanker vessels.

Naval Shipyards
Kure Naval Yard: Kure: Ways - 1 @ 300m, 1 @ 225m, [1 @ 175m, 2 @ 150m]; alt 5 @ 125m, longitudinal construction.
Yokosuka Naval Yard: Yokosuka : Ways – 1 @ 300m, 1 @ 200m, 2 @ 175m, 2 @ 150m.
Sasebo Naval Yard: Sasebo: Ways – 1 @ 200m, 1 @ 175m, 3 @ 150m.
Maizuru Naval Yard: Maizuru: Ways – 1 @ 150m, 4 @ 125m.

Civilian Shipyards
Mitsubishi Heavy Industries: Nagasaki: Ways - 1 @ 275*m, 1 @ 225m, 2 @ 150m, 4 @ 125m.
Mitsubishi Heavy Industries: Kobe: Ways - 1 @ 150m, 2 @ 125m, 3 @ 100m.
Mitsubishi Heavy Industries: Yokohama: Ways - 1 @ 200m, 1 @ 150m, 2 @ 100m.
Mitsubishi Heavy Industries: Shimonoseki: Ways - 1 @ 150m, 2 @ 100m

Kawasaki Shipbuilding: Kobe: Ways - 1 @ 250m, 2 @ 150m, 3 @ 100m.
Kawasaki Shipbuilding: Tanagawa: Ways - 3 @ 100m
Kawasaki Shipbuilding: Senshu: Ways - 3 @ 125m

Hitachi Shipbuilding: Sakurajima: Ways – 2 @ 125m
Hitachi Shipbuilding: Mukojima: Ways – 2 @ 100m.
Hitachi Shipbuilding: Innoshima: Ways – 1 @ 100m, 2 @ 75m.
Hitachi Shipbuilding: Hikoshima: Ways – 1 @ 100m, 2 @ 75m.

Kawaminami HI: Koyagi: Ways – 1 @ 125m. 1 @ 100m, 2 @ 75m
Kawaminami HI: Urasaki: Ways – 1 @ 125m. 1 @ 100m.

Uraga Dockyards: Uraga/Tokyo: Ways - 1 @ 150m, 2 @ 125m, 2 @ 100m.
Fujinagata Shipbuilding: Sakai/Osaka: Ways – 3 @ 125m.

Tokyo Shipbuilding: Ishikawa: Ways - 3 @ 125m.
Mitsui Shipbuilding: Tamano: Ways – 3 @ 125m.
Harima Shipbuilding: Harima: Ways – 1 @ 125m, 1 @ 100m, 1 @ 75m.
Nippon Koukan: Tsurumi: Ways – 1 @ 125m. 2 @ 75m
Osaka Shipbuilding: Osaka: Ways – 1 @ 125m, 1 @ 75m
Niigata Iron Factory: Niigata: Ways – 1 @ 125m, 2 @ 75m
Naniwa Dock: Osaka: Ways – 1 @ 100m, 1 @ 75m
Hakodate Dock: Hakodate: Ways – 1 @ 100m, 1 @ 75m

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shark7

http://astilleros1939.blogspot.com/search/label/Construccion%20Naval%20y%20Reparacion

Site is in Spanish, but running it through Yahoo Babelfish or Bing Translate will put it in English fairly accurately. It has quite a bit of info on the slips, drydocks, and facilities for all the Major and most of the Minor countries for 1939.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gary Childress

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shark7

http://astilleros1939.blogspot.com/search/label/Construccion%20Naval%20y%20Reparacion

Site is in Spanish, but running it through Yahoo Babelfish or Bing Translate will put it in English fairly accurately. It has quite a bit of info on the slips, drydocks, and facilities for all the Major and most of the Minor countries for 1939.

Many thanks Shark7. I ran it through Babelfish but I don't see where it gives any detail of how long a ship was under construction or how many slips a particular construction yard had nor what lengths the slips are. It just seems to give a list of yards and then a list of ships that were constructed by the yard and then a few minor details on each ship produced there. Am I missing something?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gary Childress

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shark7

Didn't the Alt_Naval assume the enlargement of the major launching slips and fitting docks though? At least I seem to remember that from browsing the site before it went down.

Not sure, I'll have to go back over his site.

Meanwhile I've set up my own building queue for the major IJN shipyards which I think should be able to produce the Alt_Naval fleet in ample time. Basically, using JWEs chart of shipbuilding capacity, I've come up with the following building plan:

Up until the Japanese withdraw from all the naval treaties, we have most of the major shipyards pumping out "shadow carriers". These are large tenders and auxiliaries (AVs, ARs, and ASs) designed optimally to be easily converted into CVLs. They basically side step treaty limitations of the early 30s so that the slips are still being utilized. Then around 1936 the dam breaks loose and the big boys start to get cranked, CVs and BBs. The larger shipyards are producing CVs and BBs by 1936 while the smaller ship yards continue with the shadow carriers and CAs. I'm going to assume that Kairyu class CVs and Harima class BBs are not going to be able to be built in the #2 slips.

I've taken the liberty of forgoing the building of APDs for the IJN which are part of the Alt_Naval building plan. I don't think they really need them so most of the later auxiliaries in the building queue are going to be build form the keel up as CVLs from the get go.

Pretty much any ship which hasn't been completed by the later stages of 1940 can be considered as not being available on December 7, 1941. So, I'm drawing the line at CV Koryu. Any ship completed after her is going to miss Pearl Harbor. Also ships being laid down in 1943 probably won't make it into the fleet before the war ends. So effectively the last two ships to be deployed will probably be CV Tairyu and AR Shijiki. Both are completed in the first month of 1944. But if Japan does linger, there will be a couple more ships in the making for deployment in 1946 or beyond.

Grand total the building queues of the major yards from 1932 forward hold the following new builds:

22 "Shadow" CVLs
17 CVs
2 BBs
8 CAs

Also one more note. Yokosuka NSY #2, according to JWEs research, was expanded from 175m to 275m between 1936 and May 1942. During this time no ships appear to have been laid down historically. In my alternative universe conversion of the slip will take place in 1932 and extend only 3 and 1/2 years, in which time the slip will be increased from 175m to a more modest 210m. The yard begins construction again in 1935. This will make the slip large enough to accomodate my shadow carriers and a Kurama class CA in late 1938. Since 175m is not much bigger than a light cruiser slip I'll assume that it won't hurt production much to remove the slip from operation for a few years, especially since the majority of those years will be during the freeze on new warships brough about by the London treaty.

Below is a chart depicting the Japanese building program of Admiral Gary.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gary Childress

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shark7

Didn't the Alt_Naval assume the enlargement of the major launching slips and fitting docks though? At least I seem to remember that from browsing the site before it went down.

Not sure, I'll have to go back over his site.

Meanwhile I've set up my own building queue for the major IJN shipyards which I think should be able to produce the Alt_Naval fleet in ample time. Basically, using JWEs chart of shipbuilding capacity, I've come up with the following building plan:

Up until the Japanese withdraw from all the naval treaties, we have most of the major shipyards pumping out "shadow carriers". These are large tenders and auxiliaries (AVs, ARs, and ASs) designed optimally to be easily converted into CVLs. They basically side step treaty limitations of the early 30s so that the slips are still being utilized. Then around 1936 the dam breaks loose and the big boys start to get cranked, CVs and BBs. The larger shipyards are producing CVs and BBs by 1936 while the smaller ship yards continue with the shadow carriers and CAs. I'm going to assume that Kairyu class CVs and Harima class BBs are not going to be able to be built in the #2 slips.

I've taken the liberty of forgoing the building of APDs for the IJN which are part of the Alt_Naval building plan. I don't think they really need them so most of the later auxiliaries in the building queue are going to be build form the keel up as CVLs from the get go.

Pretty much any ship which hasn't been completed by the later stages of 1940 can be considered as not being available on December 7, 1941. So, I'm drawing the line at CV Koryu. Any ship completed after her is going to miss Pearl Harbor. Also ships being laid down in 1943 probably won't make it into the fleet before the war ends. So effectively the last two ships to be deployed will probably be CV Tairyu and AR Shijiki. Both are completed in the first month of 1944. But if Japan does linger, there will be a couple more ships in the making for deployment in 1946 or beyond.

Grand total the building queues of the major yards from 1932 forward hold the following new builds:

22 "Shadow" CVLs
17 CVs
2 BBs
8 CAs

Also one more note. Yokosuka NSY #2, according to JWEs research, was expanded from 175m to 275m between 1936 and May 1942. During this time no ships appear to have been laid down historically. In my alternative universe conversion of the slip will take place in 1932 and extend only 3 and 1/2 years, in which time the slip will be increased from 175m to a more modest 210m. The yard begins construction again in 1935. This will make the slip large enough to accomodate my shadow carriers and a Kurama class CA in late 1938. Since 175m is not much bigger than a light cruiser slip I'll assume that it won't hurt production much to remove the slip from operation for a few years, especially since the majority of those years will be during the freeze on new warships brough about by the London treaty.

Below is a chart depicting the Japanese building program of Admiral Gary.

Only two years to build a battleship or an aircraft carrier, and the same for a heavy cruiser? I know the Harima and Inaba get their gun turrets "for free", but still?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

As to the auxiliaries, Japan needs them very much. It sets out to adopt a forward defence strategy, along its national perimeter, the outer edges of which are hundreds and hundreds of miles away from any developed bases. Where is the fuel, ammunition and repair services for all those warships going to come from?

The "shadow carrier" program is a very bad idea.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

Speaking of which, where is the yard time for the reconstruction of the Ise, Hyuga, Fuso and Yamashiro? They all lose gun turrets and gain better machinery; not work you do tied up at a pier.

quote:

Back then, there was a difference between a construction slipway, drydock and graving or fitting dock. You built capital ships on a slipway (the keel-to-launch part) then moved them to a fitting facility (sometimes graving dock, sometimes fitting slip, sometimes g-dock then f-slip, depending). Conversions were done first in a drydock (or g-dock) then in a fitting slip, since most of the work was topsides/interior. Wet dock work was for stuff like hull mods (bulges, armor work, engine/prop mods, etc..).

Conversions didn’t impact construction slipways, except … some ships took longer to fit than they did to launch. If you had a limited number of fitting facilities of the proper size (like Japanese yards) you could build another ship to launch in the empty slipway, but the launched hull would just have to sit there until the first guy finished fitting and moved out to give the second guy room at the bar. So it’s not really just construction space, it’s number and availability of facilities at each step of the process. If fitting space is choked with conversions, it don’t matter how many empty construction slips there are … ya can’t build nothing ‘cause there ain’t nowhere to put them to finish them off.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gary Childress
I was operating on the assumption that the ships could be reconstructed using other facilities than the construction slips.