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why not more post-wwii games?

 
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why not more post-wwii games? - 10/19/2010 7:39:11 PM   
hawkeye_de

 

Posts: 51
Joined: 4/19/2009
Status: offline 		Hi,

I do not know if I am the only person, who is bored by so many WWII centric war games. Personally, I'd like to see much more post-WWII games, especially cold war/vietnam and asymmetrical warfare - on tactical/operational level.

Similar like Winspmbt or the Command Ops but also naval-oriented strategy stuff..the variety of units/tactics/scenarios would be just more compelling!

Not only would the scenarios be different compared to WII2 stuff but also (almost) non-lethal scenarios would be possible (intelligence gathering in a cold war environment with distinct rules of engagement etc.).

Just two examples, although they are from flight simulators:
F19 Stealth Fighter: It generated reconnaissance missions
Falcon 3.0 Add-On(FSX): It generated missions where you job was to push side Tu-95 Bears without using of weapons but with the chance that the conflict escalates

For example could you imagine a complete new Winspmbt/Steel Panthers game with procedural content generation (random maps / campaigns) with today's processing power and AI?

What do you think?

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RE: why not more post-wwii games? - 10/19/2010 8:06:23 PM   
NefariousKoel


Posts: 2930
Joined: 7/23/2002
From: Murderous Missouri Scum
Status: offline 		A number of us have been overcooked with WW2, you're not alone.

I'd like to see more cold war stuff, myself, but the wargaming genre is largely still stuck in WW2 mode. Though high-dollar shooters seem to have moved on to more modern stuff - at least temporarily.

However, there's a trickle of other settings about so it keeps me kinda satisfied. Thankfully WWI has been getting some attention and occasional musketry to boot, though not enough.

Some cold war or modern turn-based air combat or empire builder would be nice. I noticed one of the latter being created by Malfador but it's looking pretty 'iffy' in my as-yet uninformed opinion. http://www.malfador.com/WorldSupremacy.html

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RE: why not more post-wwii games? - 10/19/2010 8:27:49 PM   
Capt. Harlock


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quote:

Similar like Winspmbt or the Command Ops but also naval-oriented strategy stuff..the variety of units/tactics/scenarios would be just more compelling!


WWII was pretty much the only time in history when there was true land-sea-air conflict -- in other words, all three spheres of combat interacting with each other. Some hypothetical Cold War games managed something like this, but they were few and far between. (The old apple II North Atlantic '86 was very limited in its representation of land warfare: the units could not advance or retreat on their own but had to be moved by ship or plane.)

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RE: why not more post-wwii games? - 10/19/2010 8:50:26 PM   
billyjj

 

Posts: 85
Joined: 2/18/2010
Status: offline 		WW3 is basically just firing off all nuclear weapons and bracing for the retaliation.. there is some strategy involved but not as satisfying as armor battles, and yes you have some Fulda Gap type games with armor combat, but when 1 side loses they turn to tactical nukes most likely followed by all out nuclear war. Just doesn't make as good of a game,..

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RE: why not more post-wwii games? - 10/19/2010 9:06:49 PM   
ezzler

 

Posts: 863
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline 		I too would like a game with more mis-matched forces.
Vietnam, Iraq, Israel, Zululand, Sudan, 1776..

I loved old boargames like Sniper, bug hunter {basically the Aliens movie} and Insurgency.{That one had one side as guerilla rebels with poor arms but good spies and local support and jungle to hide in. The Government had limited airforce, armour but had to operate mostly in enemy terrain..great fun}
The Warsaw uprising and Berlin '45 scenarios for ASL were really challenging. Victory conditions balance out the games.


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RE: why not more post-wwii games? - 10/19/2010 9:36:33 PM   
junk2drive


Posts: 12907
Joined: 6/27/2002
From: Arizona West Coast
Status: offline 		Talonsoft Divided Ground with the Vietnam mod is very good but most of the scenarios are for H2H play. Matrix is redoing this as we speak, see the JTCS forum.

Slitherines's BBC BA is pretty adaptable and I will propbably do some Vietnam, Korea and AIW with it.

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RE: why not more post-wwii games? - 10/19/2010 9:46:46 PM   
warspite1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: billyjj

WW3 is basically just firing off all nuclear weapons and bracing for the retaliation.. there is some strategy involved but not as satisfying as armor battles, and yes you have some Fulda Gap type games with armor combat, but when 1 side loses they turn to tactical nukes most likely followed by all out nuclear war. Just doesn't make as good of a game,..

Warspite1

+1

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RE: why not more post-wwii games? - 10/19/2010 10:40:38 PM   
NefariousKoel


Posts: 2930
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From: Murderous Missouri Scum
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quote:

ORIGINAL: billyjj

WW3 is basically just firing off all nuclear weapons and bracing for the retaliation.. there is some strategy involved but not as satisfying as armor battles, and yes you have some Fulda Gap type games with armor combat, but when 1 side loses they turn to tactical nukes most likely followed by all out nuclear war. Just doesn't make as good of a game,..



WW2 is basically just shooting at each other then bracing for retalitation.. there is some strategy involved but not as satisfying as high-tech BVR battles, and yes you have some Barbarossa type games for all the fanboys who play Germany constantly, but when one side gets nukes then the game is just done for. Doesn't make that good of a game in the end.

Oh, look. Someone squatted in your malt o' meal too!

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RE: why not more post-wwii games? - 10/19/2010 11:18:17 PM   
Lützow


Posts: 1517
Joined: 7/22/2008
From: Germany
Status: offline 		WW2 was still epic, WW3 would be just depressing.

That said, I'd like to see games featuring current or recent conflicts. Like Iraq or Afghanistan.

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RE: why not more post-wwii games? - 10/19/2010 11:33:22 PM   
Obsolete


Posts: 1492
Joined: 9/4/2007
Status: offline 		To the allied fan-boys, fighting the Reds is just un-interesting in comparison to fighting the Axis. I suppose I fall somewhat in that group, as I can't ever get into any of the cold-war games at all. Except, maybe one of those Panzer General remakes (People's General?) where the communists were thrown pitted vs the Western nations. But that's just aesthetics, since it's really quite similar to the PGII. Actually it's almost identical (few extra gimmicks).

The only real cold-war games I liked were the sub-warfare variety.

Oh, and I of course love the immersion when I finally get to upgrade to Tigers, Panther-G's & Kings :P




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RE: why not more post-wwii games? - 10/19/2010 11:39:38 PM   
SLAAKMAN


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Joined: 7/24/2002
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quote:

Hi,

I do not know if I am the only person, who is bored by so many WWII centric war games.

Sacriledge!! World in Flames & Close Combat III/CoI are all I need!!

http://www.vassalengine.org/


< Message edited by SLAAKMAN -- 10/19/2010 11:41:28 PM >

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RE: why not more post-wwii games? - 10/19/2010 11:43:49 PM   
SLAAKMAN


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quote:


Oh, and I of course love the immersion when I finally get to upgrade to Tigers, Panther-G's & Kings :P

My sentiments exactly. Playing the Axis in WWII isone of the greatest challenges in wargaming.

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RE: why not more post-wwii games? - 10/19/2010 11:55:39 PM   
Sarge


Posts: 2841
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From: ask doggie
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SLAAKMAN

quote:


Oh, and I of course love the immersion when I finally get to upgrade to Tigers, Panther-G's & Kings :P

My sentiments exactly. Playing the Axis in WWII isone of the greatest challenges in wargaming.

Despite the programmed axis bias in most titles.................



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RE: why not more post-wwii games? - 10/20/2010 12:03:06 AM   
SLAAKMAN


Posts: 2725
Joined: 7/24/2002
Status: offline 		Despite the programmed axis bias in most titles.

Dunno what youve been playing Sarge but the ones Ive played leave little margin for error.



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Post #: 14
RE: why not more post-wwii games? - 10/20/2010 12:24:56 AM   
nelmsm1


Posts: 1041
Joined: 1/21/2002
From: Texas
Status: offline 		HPS has the following Modern Campaigns based on the Panzer Campaign engine:
Danube Front 85 (can play the whole front from Denmark to Austria in 1985)
North German Plain 85(north Germany)
Fulda Gap 85
Korea 85
Middle East 67

HPS has the following Squad Battle games:
Dien Bien Phu
Korea
Vietnam & Tour of Duty
Soviet Afghan War

These take care of my post-WWII munchies.

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RE: why not more post-wwii games? - 10/20/2010 12:31:29 AM   
NefariousKoel


Posts: 2930
Joined: 7/23/2002
From: Murderous Missouri Scum
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sarge


quote:

ORIGINAL: SLAAKMAN

quote:


Oh, and I of course love the immersion when I finally get to upgrade to Tigers, Panther-G's & Kings :P

My sentiments exactly. Playing the Axis in WWII isone of the greatest challenges in wargaming.

Despite the programmed axis bias in most titles.................



Zee Nazi fanbois sez: Needs moar nazi tanks!



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RE: why not more post-wwii games? - 10/20/2010 1:05:51 AM   
V22 Osprey


Posts: 1593
Joined: 4/8/2008
From: Corona, CA
Status: offline 		WinSPMBT and HPS North German Plain '85 are my post-WWII fix. WinSPMBT can play any battle from 1946-2020 with nearly a hundred countries so that pretty much satisfies post-WWII squad level combat(no need for HPS Squad Battles) NGP '85 and any future Modern Campaign titles will be my operational warfare fix. Let's the not forget the upcoming Modern Wars Vol 1, which is a modern warfare spin off of JTCS. Yes WWII is overly overplayed....but I don't think the selection of post WWII is as bad as the OP thinks.


< Message edited by V22 Osprey -- 10/20/2010 1:06:36 AM >

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RE: why not more post-wwii games? - 10/20/2010 1:14:02 AM   
SLAAKMAN


Posts: 2725
Joined: 7/24/2002
Status: offline 		NutKase
quote:

Zee Nazi fanbois sez: Needs moar nazi tanks!

Now all I need is to find a nice Battan Death March for you & the Swampmutt & life will be just grand!

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Germany's unforgivable crime before the Second World War was her attempt to extricate her economy from the world's trading system and to create her own exchange mechanism which would deny world finance its opportunity to profit.
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RE: why not more post-wwii games? - 10/20/2010 2:17:10 AM   
jomni


Posts: 2827
Joined: 11/19/2007
Status: offline 		Some games that I would recommend

For naval:
Harpoon (from Matrix)

For squad based tactical:
Squad Battles (from HPS) Korean War, Dien Bien Phu, Vietnam, Tour of Duty, Soviet Afghan War, World at War (mod), Long War (mod)
Combat Mission Shock Force (from Battlefront) for asymetric combat (hypothetical scenario)

For grand/tactical operational:
The Operational Art of War (from Matrix)
Games from Shrapnel/ProSim
TacOps (from Battlefront)

For air power:
Harpoon (from Matrix)
Modern Air Power Series (from HPS)
LOMAC, DCS Strikefighters, Falcon 4 flight sims

The problem with post-WWII is that battles are less becoming conventional.  A game based on unconventional / asymetric warfare is harder to balance (for two player).  Data is harder to come by.  No historical statical results.  Classified information.  And the political issue of being able to play as your current enemy (The Medal of Honor Taliban debacle).

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RE: why not more post-wwii games? - 10/20/2010 4:25:07 AM   
Doggie


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From: Under the porch
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quote:

Playing the Axis in WWII isone of the greatest challenges in wargaming



Thius calls for a reprise of my ten year old literary masterpiece:

Ode to a motherf*cking King Tiger


It was a dark and stormy nite
And the SS dudes were lookin fer a fite

It was really bad wether but they had on some kool black leather
So they marched into bastone

But they wasnt alone
Them dudes had a f*kin king tiger.
It could swing a big *ssed gun
It was f*kin awesome.
It fired all day, the yanks ran away
if only it woulda had some gas,
it wooda kicked some *ss

It was big and Bad and also it had a really kewl camelflaje job
The only thing that coud stop it was a f*kin thunderbolt rockit

If it had snowed more it would have kaptured f*kin Antwerp
but it stalled out on the meuse it ran out of juice
cause hitler was just a big f*kin twerp
bummer

I was robbed of my nobel prize for literature by the freemasons, the Rothchilds, and the illumunati.



< Message edited by Doggie -- 10/20/2010 4:26:19 AM >

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RE: why not more post-wwii games? - 10/20/2010 4:53:38 AM   
KG Erwin


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From: Cross Lanes WV USA
Status: offline 		(deleted by choice)

< Message edited by KG Erwin -- 10/20/2010 4:55:28 AM >

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RE: why not more post-wwii games? - 10/20/2010 5:13:05 AM   
SLAAKMAN


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quote:

I was robbed of my nobel prize for literature by the freemasons, the Rothchilds, and the illumunati.

That and your pathological love affair with censorship.


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RE: why not more post-wwii games? - 10/20/2010 6:10:32 AM   
NefariousKoel


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From: Murderous Missouri Scum
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Doggie

I was robbed of my nobel prize for literature by the freemasons, the Rothchilds, and the illumunati.









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RE: why not more post-wwii games? - 10/20/2010 6:14:36 AM   
Obsolete


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RE: why not more post-wwii games? - 10/20/2010 8:25:49 AM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sarge


quote:

ORIGINAL: SLAAKMAN

quote:


Oh, and I of course love the immersion when I finally get to upgrade to Tigers, Panther-G's & Kings :P

My sentiments exactly. Playing the Axis in WWII isone of the greatest challenges in wargaming.

Despite the programmed axis bias in most titles.................


Warspite1

When I started playing World In Flames as the Allied side I thought the game was biased toward the Axis.

Then I played the Axis and thought the bias was actually toward the Allies.

It finally dawned on me that I was just lousy at playing the game.....


Despite my rubbish play, World In Flames is simply the...Best. Game. Ever

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RE: why not more post-wwii games? - 10/20/2010 9:44:16 AM   
JudgeDredd


Posts: 8573
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From: Scotland
Status: offline 		lol - I was reading with interest and all of a sudden I come across a load of posts saying
quote:


This user is on your "block" list and the message has been blocked.
Click here to unblock this user and view this post.


And all of a sudden there's a big gap between each sensible post - makes for easier, pleasant reading - genius

I thought Erik was going to perform a cull? He must be really busy.

I'm with the OP - I'd love to get my hands on some decent post WWII gaming. I really like CM:SF, but the fictional campaign doesn't really enthrall me. Combat Mission in Vietnam or Korea would be a nice addition to the series. Unfortunately, we'll have to wait until they get another WWII game out the door.

I'd also like to see a game portraying the Falklands Conflict.

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RE: why not more post-wwii games? - 10/20/2010 10:08:18 AM   
jomni


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd
I'm with the OP - I'd love to get my hands on some decent post WWII gaming. I really like CM:SF, but the fictional campaign doesn't really enthrall me. Combat Mission in Vietnam or Korea would be a nice addition to the series. Unfortunately, we'll have to wait until they get another WWII game out the door.



Combat Mission Afghanistan is already out.
Mabye you want to look at Theater of War Korea?


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RE: why not more post-wwii games? - 10/20/2010 10:20:47 AM   
JudgeDredd


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From: Scotland
Status: offline 		I do have CM:A and am enjoying (forgot to mention it).

I'm not sure about the ToW games. I had the first one and kind of enjoyed it, but infantry seemed pretty useless...getting mowed down. Sniper like AI tanks, AI anti-tank and AI infantry kind of put me off the whole series. I loved it at first - but the only enjoyable part for me was tanks slogging it out.

Korea - it might well be an option

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RE: why not more post-wwii games? - 10/20/2010 11:52:13 AM   
Lützow


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From: Germany
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

I'd also like to see a game portraying the Falklands Conflict.


Aerosoft and Thundersoft are about to release a flight simulation, covering Falklands war. But the sim model will be rather simplistic.


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RE: why not more post-wwii games? - 10/20/2010 11:56:39 AM   
sprior


Posts: 8596
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From: Portsmouth, UK
Status: offline 		Shrapnel Games have a Falklands War game. There's a demo you can download too.

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