Simultanious Diplomacy works how ?

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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Empires in Arms the Napoleonic Wars of 1805 - 1815 >> Tech Support >> Simultanious Diplomacy works how ?

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Simultanious Diplomacy works how ? - 10/24/2010 3:44:23 PM

bresh

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Can someone explain how the simulanious diplomacy works ?

In our game, we upgraded in eco.phase(wasnt simultaniuos), i was surprised to hear diplomacy phase was simultanious since Marshall wrote he was gonna drop it ?

Anyway, in diplomacy phase, everyone submitted their diplomacy phase, but not everyones phases seems executed, for my nation my minor manipulations do not show in log.
GB said he DOW'ed someone, but also not seen ?
�
Can Spain execute his diplomacy phase without loading all other players phases ?

Does he need to load next for each player or is one time sufficient ?

Basicly how does it work ?

Regards
Bresh

Post #: 1

RE: Simultanious Diplomacy works how ? - 10/25/2010 9:17:39 PM

DCWhitworth

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From: Norwich, England
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My understanding is that Spain has to wait until everyone plays their phase and then load them all up and play Spain's turn.

Frankly I find it utterly shocking that a major change to the game mechanics that is distinctly non-obvious has been released with *no* documentation ! Merely a little note in the in-game rule book that says - "We have made the Diplomacy phase simultaneous so you can perform this phase without having to wait on other players!" - no help whatsoever !

I have been a long time supporter of this game but this sucks, a totally amateurish update.

_____________________________

Regards
David

(in reply to bresh)

Post #: 2

RE: Simultanious Diplomacy works how ? - 10/25/2010 11:40:40 PM

Dancing Bear

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We just started into our first sim dip phase, with about half the players having completed their turns.

From what I see, we receive the French Diplomacy phase (or maybe it was the French land phase), and upon completion of loading it, it became our turns (that is assuming you are not Spain). You complete your diplomacy phase as normal, then send it out as normal.

Upon completion of your turn, you are asked to load the diplomacy file of the player who is normally after you, so if you are France, this is Russia, if you are GB this is Spain. Not sure why France needs to load Russia's turn instead of just Spains.

I don't know what Spain sees.

That's as far as we have got. One of our players is away, so it might be a few more days before we finish this diplomacy phase.

I agree it appears confusing.

< Message edited by Dancing Bear -- 10/25/2010 11:45:12 PM >

(in reply to bresh)

Post #: 3

RE: Simultanious Diplomacy works how ? - 10/26/2010 4:39:00 AM

bresh

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I did also note as host, there was no host-autosave for month change, after eco-phase ?

That the AI/Host functions are not function for simultanious dip phase, sounds very bad.

It appear nations diplomacy orders can go missing, or is it that Spanish phase is badly coded, so that game forgets to load all other diplomacy.turn files ?
OR what went wrong for our diplomacy phase, when nations orders are not shown in log ?

I dont think 1.08.04 is a good patch, for now we where down over a 1 month, then patched up as instructed to escape 1 bug, and now this :(

I do agree with David, that it sounds like the design seems flawed.

Another thing, how does game handle if 1 player checked, skips his diplomacy phase ?
Does he get to do it anyway ? Does it handle it propper if he submits one ? Does it require his dip phase turn file to move on ?

What happend since Marshall wrote was going to drop simpultanious Diplomacy and now we have it but its not working propper(missing orders) ?

Regards
Bresh

< Message edited by bresh -- 10/26/2010 4:47:34 AM >

(in reply to Dancing Bear)

Post #: 4

RE: Simultanious Diplomacy works how ? - 10/26/2010 9:04:01 AM

DCWhitworth

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From: Norwich, England
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I don't necessarily think the design is flawed because I don't know how it is supposed to work. I have no idea how it is supposed to work officially, all I have is hearsay posted on this forum, no game documentation whatever.

_____________________________

Regards
David

(in reply to bresh)

Post #: 5

RE: Simultanious Diplomacy works how ? - 10/26/2010 11:21:59 AM

Dancing Bear

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I should add that when one of our players (Turkey) tried to load the player after his in the sequence (Austria), the game would not advance out of Turkey's turn. We don't have the Spainish turn yet to see what happens.

(in reply to DCWhitworth)

Post #: 6

RE: Simultanious Diplomacy works how ? - 10/26/2010 12:19:27 PM

Marshall Ellis

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From: Dallas
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Hey guys:

I thought we documented this OK, no? The simultaneous diplomacy works the same. You can do all diplomacy without waitng on other players to do their diplomacy. The game will not move forward until all turns are given to Spain then Spain ends his/her turn. Not much more that we could add or am I wrong?

_____________________________

Thank you

Marshall Ellis
Outflank Strategy War Games

(in reply to Dancing Bear)

Post #: 7

RE: Simultanious Diplomacy works how ? - 10/26/2010 12:38:40 PM

DCWhitworth

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From: Norwich, England
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Thanks for your input Marshall. I have some other questions -

1. How does the host skip/AI a player's diplomacy phase using the admin menu ?
2. How can you do a backup during the diplomacy phase ?
3. Since at the start of diplomacy the host's game will show his own diplomacy up does this mean the PBEM auto-backups are still valid ?
4. If a player skips their phase how would you know ? Presumably they'd have to tell everyone or they'll all sit around waiting for them to play their turn.

_____________________________

Regards
David

(in reply to Marshall Ellis)

Post #: 8

RE: Simultanious Diplomacy works how ? - 10/26/2010 3:16:08 PM

bresh

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marshall Ellis

Hey guys:

I thought we documented this OK, no? The simultaneous diplomacy works the same. You can do all diplomacy without waitng on other players to do their diplomacy. The game will not move forward until all turns are given to Spain then Spain ends his/her turn. Not much more that we could add or am I wrong?

Marshall how do you explain that in our game, some nations diplomacy eg manipulation and DOw does not execute(or show in log)?

Also like i asked, what happens if 1 MP selected skip diplomacy phase ?
What if he still submits ?

Regards
Bresh

(in reply to Marshall Ellis)

Post #: 9

RE: Simultanious Diplomacy works how ? - 10/26/2010 4:08:15 PM

DCWhitworth

Posts: 676
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From: Norwich, England
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quote:

ORIGINAL: bresh

Marshall how do you explain that in our game, some nations diplomacy eg manipulation and DOw does not execute(or show in log)?

I'd guess that's because Spain didn't execute his phase last.

_____________________________

Regards
David

(in reply to bresh)

Post #: 10

RE: Simultanious Diplomacy works how ? - 10/28/2010 3:20:23 PM

bresh

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DCWhitworth

quote:

ORIGINAL: bresh

Marshall how do you explain that in our game, some nations diplomacy eg manipulation and DOw does not execute(or show in log)?

I'd guess that's because Spain didn't execute his phase last.

David, Marshall wrote game waits for Spain to have all turns, so how could that be ?

And what files does Spain need to load ? How does he load them or they just have to be in his income folder ?

Regards
Bresh

(in reply to DCWhitworth)

Post #: 11

RE: Simultanious Diplomacy works how ? - 10/29/2010 12:47:09 AM

Trax

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All players load the last land (or econ) turn, then each player does their diplomacy turn and sends the turn file to only the Spanish player. The Spanish player puts all the other players diplomacy turns into the commin folder, starts and loads the game, presses the load PBEM turn button (our guy has to press it twice) then executes the Spanish diplomacy turn.

Spanish reinforcement phase is up next and when done the Spanish player sends both the Spanish diplomacy and reinf. turns to all players.

All other players put both Spanish files into the commin folder and load them both using the load PBEM button. It becomes GB reinf. turn.

Ignore the prompts that indicate who is up next in the diplomacy phase.

There is as yet no ability to skip a players diplomay turn, nor can the host create a skip diplomacy turn.

If every player is prompt the new system is faster.

(in reply to bresh)

Post #: 12

RE: Simultanious Diplomacy works how ? - 10/29/2010 2:29:00 AM

Dancing Bear

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We have just finished our first sim diplomacy phase, which went exactly as Trax describes it. A war was concluded with Turkey surrendering to Russia and Austria, and all the conditions worked correctly. Similarly, Turkey, France and Spain opened access to one another's territories, and that went through correctly. As far as I can tell everything worked exactly as it should. This is looking like a big improvement over the past system.

(in reply to Trax)

Post #: 13

RE: Simultanious Diplomacy works how ? - 10/29/2010 12:10:52 PM

Marshall Ellis

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From: Dallas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: bresh

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marshall Ellis

Hey guys:

I thought we documented this OK, no? The simultaneous diplomacy works the same. You can do all diplomacy without waitng on other players to do their diplomacy. The game will not move forward until all turns are given to Spain then Spain ends his/her turn. Not much more that we could add or am I wrong?

Marshall how do you explain that in our game, some nations diplomacy eg manipulation and DOw does not execute(or show in log)?

Also like i asked, what happens if 1 MP selected skip diplomacy phase ?
What if he still submits ?

Regards
Bresh

Hmmmmm??? I'm not sure about the diplomacy not showing in the log! First I have heard of that in any of the test PBEM games??? I don't think we tested the skip functionality either but will check...

_____________________________

Thank you

Marshall Ellis
Outflank Strategy War Games

(in reply to bresh)

Post #: 14

RE: Simultanious Diplomacy works how ? - 11/2/2010 12:44:12 PM

bresh

Posts: 936
Joined: 8/8/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marshall Ellis

quote:

ORIGINAL: bresh

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marshall Ellis

Hey guys:

I thought we documented this OK, no? The simultaneous diplomacy works the same. You can do all diplomacy without waitng on other players to do their diplomacy. The game will not move forward until all turns are given to Spain then Spain ends his/her turn. Not much more that we could add or am I wrong?

Marshall how do you explain that in our game, some nations diplomacy eg manipulation and DOw does not execute(or show in log)?

Also like i asked, what happens if 1 MP selected skip diplomacy phase ?
What if he still submits ?

Regards
Bresh

Hmmmmm??? I'm not sure about the diplomacy not showing in the log! First I have heard of that in any of the test PBEM games??? I don't think we tested the skip functionality either but will check...

Marshall i think the not showing in the log, is because the phases where not executed.
Question is if a set skip diplomacy phase can create a bug for executing the diplomacy phase for Spain.
Or if Spain can somehow execute the diplomacy wrong, eg not loading all players files ?

Regards
Bresh

(in reply to Marshall Ellis)

Post #: 15

RE: Simultanious Diplomacy works how ? - 11/2/2010 6:29:00 PM

bongina

Posts: 126
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From: Columbia, SC
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We have the same issue in our 7-player game (with 1.08.04). Everyone did their diplomacy, then Spain did his. He declared war on 4 countries (portugal, algeria, tunisia, and naples) and did 1 influence, then finished his phase and immediately did his reinforcement. The log, however, does not show his DoWs, his political points were not subtracted, AND he is still showing an INFL marker over Portugal. It seems his turn h=got skipped!

Question: How do we correct this? Can the host create a backup file and resend to everyone?

2nd Question: How did such a major error get past playtesting? Is the Spanish player doing something wrong?

(in reply to bresh)

Post #: 16

RE: Simultanious Diplomacy works how ? - 11/2/2010 9:56:50 PM

Dancing Bear

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So is everyone else's turn being excuted, but not Spain's?

I could see how in an advanced game this bug would not be noticed, because after ther first year, there are usually no minors for Spain to declare war on, so it would not have shown up. Keep in mind that the play testers are volunteers, and there are no professional testers involved.

(in reply to bongina)

Post #: 17

RE: Simultanious Diplomacy works how ? - 11/2/2010 10:46:25 PM

bongina

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Yes, everyone's diplomacy went through (and showed up on the log) EXCEPT Spain's.

(in reply to Dancing Bear)

Post #: 18

RE: Simultanious Diplomacy works how ? - 11/2/2010 11:46:58 PM

Dancing Bear

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Hi Bongina
I went back and looked at the log for the two games I am in that have completed sim dip phases. In both games, the log showed that Spain had undertaken diplomatic activity (creating freestates in one game, and granting access to an ally in the other). I can't comment specifically on DOW's and attempts to influence as those actions were not attempted, but I can say that Spain's diplomacy phase was not skipped for the two games I am in.

Can you check to see where Spain was meant to go in the random order of countries selected at the start of the phase. I'm am wondering if Spain was last. Also, was Spain able to reach all these countries with corps in fleets at the start of the turn? Finally is your Spainish player new to the game? Has he been able to DOW and influence minors in a test solo game against the AI?

(in reply to bongina)

Post #: 19

RE: Simultanious Diplomacy works how ? - 11/3/2010 2:27:07 AM

bresh

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DB, in "my" pbm game.
Spainish phase was executed and Spanish actions took place, but not GB+PR, not sure if any other majors where "passed".

Regards
Bresh

(in reply to Dancing Bear)

Post #: 20

RE: Simultanious Diplomacy works how ? - 11/3/2010 2:56:19 AM

Dancing Bear

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This is not going to be easy to figure out. Bresh, did either GB or Prussia set to skip their turn? Can you tell me from the log, the order in which the nations were selected to randomly play their dip orders? Where GB or Prussia first or last? Had they upgraded before loading the land phase of the last player to go in the land phase?

(in reply to bresh)

Post #: 21

RE: Simultanious Diplomacy works how ? - 11/3/2010 8:58:31 AM

bresh

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dancing Bear

This is not going to be easy to figure out. Bresh, did either GB or Prussia set to skip their turn? Can you tell me from the log, the order in which the nations were selected to randomly play their dip orders? Where GB or Prussia first or last? Had they upgraded before loading the land phase of the last player to go in the land phase?

We upgraded during eco-phase. Marshall E, did a fix where homeland GB was GB-Freestate-Swedish controlled, so income was not correctly calculated. Marshall E. wrote after fixing, we had to upgrade or we would still have the bug.

Diplomacy phase, Russia had skip set but submitted.
I only heard from GB+Pr(myself Host), that their manipulation +DOW did not happen.
Turkey attempted formal peace with GB, and both agreed, but think accept formal peace, had been set by GB during a prior phase(eco).
Order was gr,au,sp,pr,fr,ru,ty.

The only manipulation/actions visible otherwise is Russia manipulating.

Regards
Bresh

(in reply to Dancing Bear)

Post #: 22

RE: Simultanious Diplomacy works how ? - 11/4/2010 1:00:47 AM

bongina

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We fixed it. I had created backups just after the setup phase, so I sent Spain its backup save file and he reloaded, re-did his deplo, and everything worked. He then did his reinforcement phase and sent the file out. Britain, however, could not open the file. So, I went in (I am the host and Austria) and tried to load it - got the same error. Trying various things, I finally found the solution. I moved Austria's diplo file from the comeout folder to the comein folder, then clicked on the PBEM button and the Spanish phase loaded fine. So, I created backups for everyone in the game at this point, and sent them out, and thus far have had no further issues.

Spain, however, tried to load Britain's reinforcement file and got an error, in turn. He too tried various things, and the one that finally worked was to remove ALL other save files from his save folder (including solo games). After that, he was able to get the British reinforcement phase to load.

WTF?

(in reply to bresh)

Post #: 23

RE: Simultanious Diplomacy works how ? - 11/4/2010 2:51:42 AM

Dancing Bear

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Well Bongina, I don't get it. If there is an error, I'm not sure why it does not consistently repeat. It will be very interesting to hear how your next diplomacy phase goes. Let us know, even if it works fine.

This is going to be a tough one to figure out. Maybe Marshall with his understanding of the code can provide some insight.

(in reply to bongina)

Post #: 24

RE: Simultanious Diplomacy works how ? - 11/5/2010 2:28:45 AM

Sorta

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Hi all,

My game has just had an out of sequence error:

Uploading French Sept 1807 Economic phase and getting a program call for Prussian Sept. 1807 Diplomatic phase, not French Oct 1807 Diplomatic Phase (as expected).

Any ideas?
What info do I need to supply?

(in reply to Dancing Bear)

Post #: 25

RE: Simultanious Diplomacy works how ? - 11/5/2010 2:49:02 AM

Dancing Bear

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This sounds serious. When was your last back up? Sending the files to Marshall might get this fixed. Marshall can you comment?

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Post #: 26

RE: Simultanious Diplomacy works how ? - 11/5/2010 3:08:41 AM

Sorta

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Last back-up was last weekend. Should we reload the back-ups?

P.S. I'm also in Bresh's game that has stopped.

(in reply to Dancing Bear)

Post #: 27

RE: Simultanious Diplomacy works how ? - 11/5/2010 12:38:47 PM

Marshall Ellis

Posts: 5630
Joined: 10/2/2001
From: Dallas
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I will be looking at this this weekend!

_____________________________

Thank you

Marshall Ellis
Outflank Strategy War Games

(in reply to Sorta)

Post #: 28

RE: Simultanious Diplomacy works how ? - 11/7/2010 3:15:50 PM

Dancing Bear

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Let's see what Marshall reports back after the weekend.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sorta

Last back-up was last weekend. Should we reload the back-ups?

P.S. I'm also in Bresh's game that has stopped.

(in reply to Sorta)

Post #: 29

RE: Simultanious Diplomacy works how ? - 11/9/2010 11:27:32 AM

bresh

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marshall Ellis

I will be looking at this this weekend!

Hi Marshall E.

Any News about this ?

Regards
Bresh

(in reply to Marshall Ellis)

Post #: 30

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