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RE: BfM Current build Dec 12/10

 
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RE: BfM Current build Dec 12/10 - 12/15/2010 7:28:48 AM   
ColinWright

 

Posts: 2604
Joined: 10/13/2005
Status: offline 		This may be of use.  Glantz's Colossus Reborn contains a list of personnel strength figures for specific rifle formations -- expressed as a percent 'fill' of theoretical TO&E.

For my own purposes, I just looked at figures for the period Oct 1941 through Dec 1942.  Then, too, the some of the percentages refer to armies and others to divisions or corps.  Finally, there is no indication of whether the sample might be skewed to units entering and leaving the front as opposed to somewhere in mid-career. 

All that said, the numbers are illuminating.  A total of 109 specific figures are given.  They are distributed as follows.

1-10% fill;   23 units
11-20% fill;   7 units
21-30% fill;   9 units
31-40% fill;   7 units
41-50% fill;   4 units
51-60% fill;   5 units
61-70% fill;  13 units
71-80% fill;  13 units
81-90% fill;  10 units
91-100% fill; 13 units
101% + fill;    5 units

Obviously, people are free to interpret these as they wish. However, I read it as units being built up to between 60% and 100% of theoretical fill, sent into action, and bled white. The ratios are fairly constant -- i.e., the large numbers of 1-10% aren't clustered around major encirclements or anything. The Russians just seem to have sent units into the line and left them there until they were eviscerated.

< Message edited by ColinWright -- 12/15/2010 7:34:21 AM >

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Post #: 391
RE: BfM Current build Dec 12/10 - 12/21/2010 2:35:18 AM   
BigDuke66


Posts: 2013
Joined: 2/1/2001
From: Terra
Status: offline 		I'm just going thru production figures but before getting them up here I would like to track down each TOAW equivalent:
Most are already in and some like the Befehlswagen can't be really simulated without modifying the equipment database but I'm unsure about the 3 SP artillery types marked red on this picture.

Any idea if that fits?




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Post #: 392
RE: 135/1 - 12/21/2010 9:44:05 AM   
sPzAbt653


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Joined: 5/3/2007
From: east coast, usa
Status: offline 		Going by the gun size and light armor rating, that looks reasonable. Don't know why it has a towed looking icon, it should probably be more like the Wespe icon.

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Post #: 393
RE: 135/1 - 1/2/2011 8:58:04 AM   
BigDuke66


Posts: 2013
Joined: 2/1/2001
From: Terra
Status: offline 		Happy new year gentlemen!

Finally finished collecting some production figures, I hope these are helpful for tweaking the production.
As Excel file(if needed I can provide a PDF), discussion and feedback welcome.
https://rapidshare.com/files/823826979/Panzer_Material_des_Ostheeres.xlsx

An important point is that when using the average production number the timeframe should be checked.
Good example is StuG III F & G (SdKfz 142/1) & (SdKfz 142/1), using numbers for the complete timeframe we land at 32,42 per turn but using only the timeframe up to May we land at 12,69 per turn.
So every timeframe that is not completely covered by the scenario should be take into account that production usually started with very low numbers and most maxed out in the last quarter of the production.
Tiger is again a good example were monthly production in Early 1944 was as high as the complete production in 1942 and almost as high as the complete first quarter of 1943.

< Message edited by BigDuke66 -- 8/15/2011 9:08:16 AM >

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Post #: 394
Battle for Moscow 1.93 update - 1/9/2011 9:38:32 PM   
briantopp

 

Posts: 190
Joined: 8/28/2006
From: Toronto
Status: offline 		Here is an updated build of "Battle for Moscow".

This build learns from a playtest I conducted over the Christmas holidays. I played OKW/OKH against an elmer-controlled Stavka. My strategy was to find a winter line short of Moscow by early to mid-November 1941, and then to press a second offensive in the spring of 1942. I decided my "winter line" would be the fortifications of the Mozhaisk position west of Moscow. I fought a wild battle in October and November to get to a decent winter line -- elmer was very good at pressing both flanks of the German position, and at trying to defend a line around Borodini-Mozhaisk. Eventually however I was able to take the bulk of this position, and build a solid line of infantry in those fortifications. What happened then was pretty remarkable to see. The Soviets threw themselves against those fortifications, loosing repeatedly, taking 20-60% casualities in round after round of combat. Basically, the Soviet winter offensive broke its teeth against those forts. Every once in awhile they'd take one, but at such a high price I could almost always take them back. Meanwhile, the German units, all sitting comnfortably in defensive positions the whole length of the front, regenerated to full strength. By spring the Soviets were a hollow shell, easily rolled up.

This edit reflects lessons learned:

- The numerous fortifications previously on the map probably aren't accurate and can (as this playthrough demonstrates) given a false advantage to the German player, since they can provide an ideal (and historically unavailable) winter line. So I have removed most of them, replacing them with field fortifications. should promote a more mobile battle, provide better play balance and probably more accurate.

- I have reduced German first winter supply to avoid an overly-quick rebuild and regeneration of Axis units in the depths of that winter.

- I have given the Soviets a shock event to make the first Soviet winter offensive a little more historically effective.

- Various tweaks to event announcements to correct some errors in announcement timing.

Thank you for the production info Big duke i'll dig into it when I'm back from a road trip -- probably towards the end of the month.




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Post #: 395
RE: Battle for Moscow 1.93 update - 3/27/2011 5:36:09 AM   
BigDuke66


Posts: 2013
Joined: 2/1/2001
From: Terra
Status: offline 		Hey Brian is 1.93 still the latest version?
Finally have some time to make a run with this scenario and want to make sure I'm up-to-date.

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Post #: 396
Production figures 135/1 - 8/15/2011 4:31:18 AM   
governato

 

Posts: 1079
Joined: 5/6/2011
From: Seattle, WA
Status: offline 		Hey BigDuke, could you repost the files? The link is broken , but they would be really useful for developers.
Thanks!

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Post #: 397
RE: Production figures 135/1 - 8/15/2011 9:07:20 AM   
BigDuke66


Posts: 2013
Joined: 2/1/2001
From: Terra
Status: offline 		Yea took it off my own webspace as I change provider next month.
Is an Excel file enough or do you need it as PDF?

https://rapidshare.com/files/1538904477/Panzer_Material_des_Ostheeres.xlsx

< Message edited by BigDuke66 -- 9/18/2011 8:31:32 AM >

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Post #: 398
RE: Production figures 135/1 - 8/17/2011 1:34:52 AM   
governato

 

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Joined: 5/6/2011
From: Seattle, WA
Status: offline 		awesome! Tx!

-F

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Post #: 399
Battle for Moscow - latest version? - 3/14/2012 9:09:20 PM   
patton1950

 

Posts: 17
Joined: 9/30/2010
Status: offline 		This thread seems to have come to a halt....is 1.93 the last and final build of BfM??

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Post #: 400
RE: Battle for Moscow - latest version? - 3/15/2012 11:31:55 AM   
shunwick


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quote:

ORIGINAL: patton1950

This thread seems to have come to a halt....is 1.93 the last and final build of BfM??


Patton1950,

I believe it is the latest version but I don't know if it will be the final one.

There is a version 2 out there but that is an older version for ACOW.

Best wishes,
Steve

< Message edited by shunwick -- 3/15/2012 11:33:34 AM >

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