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RE: Will it be better than Combat Mission - 11/23/2010 5:47:01 PM   
WilliePete

 

Posts: 265
Joined: 8/27/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mad Russian

quote:

ORIGINAL: WilliePete
Is it fair to say that most engagements are company vs company in size?


For the scenarios included in the PCO update and all associated scenarios I'm thinking more are on the battalion vs battalion level. Company vs company would have 9 squads vs 9 squads. Or 10 tanks vs 10 tanks.

As an example, one of my scenarios has a mix of 28 Panther and PzIVH tanks vs 40 T-34/85's plus accompanying infantry, HT's and Armored Cars.


Good Hunting.

MR




awsome! I had no idea that the game can be played at that scale. My image of PCO has changed for the better! Now I understand why you don't fully model all the members in an infantry squad, althought I'm still going to look for a mod to change that ;)

November is quickly coming to an end. Can you give us a better idea of when we can get this?

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Post #: 31
RE: Will it be better than Combat Mission - 11/23/2010 6:20:59 PM   
junk2drive


Posts: 12907
Joined: 6/27/2002
From: Arizona West Coast
Status: offline 		Keep in mind that the HUD and minmap make it so much easier to keep track of a large force. And the message box keeps you informed of current events.

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Conflict of Heroes "Most games are like checkers or chess and some have dice and cards involved too. This game plays like checkers but you think like chess and the dice and cards can change everything in real time."

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Post #: 32
RE: Will it be better than Combat Mission - 11/23/2010 6:55:02 PM   
rickier65

 

Posts: 14231
Joined: 4/20/2000
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quote:

ORIGINAL: WilliePete
awsome! I had no idea that the game can be played at that scale. My image of PCO has changed for the better! Now I understand why you don't fully model all the members in an infantry squad, althought I'm still going to look for a mod to change that ;)

November is quickly coming to an end. Can you give us a better idea of when we can get this?


While i haven't tried it, it may be possible to make a mod yourself using exising models and adjusting the unit xmls to incorporate more figures. But I don't know if anyone has tried this.

The biggest challenge for large battles is computer performance. as you increase the number of units, you significantly increase the demands on the system, not just the memory for the models, but the cpu also has to check LOS, and track various other things for each unit.

Thanks
rick

(in reply to WilliePete)
Post #: 33
RE: Will it be better than Combat Mission - 11/23/2010 8:47:18 PM   
junk2drive


Posts: 12907
Joined: 6/27/2002
From: Arizona West Coast
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rick


quote:

ORIGINAL: WilliePete
awsome! I had no idea that the game can be played at that scale. My image of PCO has changed for the better! Now I understand why you don't fully model all the members in an infantry squad, althought I'm still going to look for a mod to change that ;)

November is quickly coming to an end. Can you give us a better idea of when we can get this?


While i haven't tried it, it may be possible to make a mod yourself using exising models and adjusting the unit xmls to incorporate more figures. But I don't know if anyone has tried this.

The biggest challenge for large battles is computer performance. as you increase the number of units, you significantly increase the demands on the system, not just the memory for the models, but the cpu also has to check LOS, and track various other things for each unit.

Thanks
rick



There are a couple of games that model every soldier, EYSA and CMSF.

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Conflict of Heroes "Most games are like checkers or chess and some have dice and cards involved too. This game plays like checkers but you think like chess and the dice and cards can change everything in real time."

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Post #: 34
RE: Will it be better than Combat Mission - 11/23/2010 9:18:27 PM   
Mad Russian


Posts: 13256
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: offline 		Not to sound too stupid here but what is EYSA?

MR


_____________________________

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Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

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Post #: 35
RE: Will it be better than Combat Mission - 11/23/2010 10:36:21 PM   
HintJ


Posts: 311
Joined: 10/10/2010
Status: offline 		Eric Young's Squad Assault.

EYSA is a further continuation of G.I. Combat.

I tried the EYSA demo again recently, but I just couldn't bring myself to buy it. Actually, I just found Squad Assault Second Wave for less than $6-so I ordered it!

Now I'm going to force myself to play through a few games with it, and maybe I have a differnt view this time!

< Message edited by HintJ -- 11/23/2010 11:19:24 PM >

(in reply to Mad Russian)
Post #: 36
RE: Will it be better than Combat Mission - 11/29/2010 3:51:59 PM   
IrishGuards


Posts: 542
Joined: 12/7/2006
Status: offline 		IDG

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Post #: 37
RE: Will it be better than Combat Mission - 11/29/2010 9:05:36 PM   
diablo1

 

Posts: 994
Joined: 2/27/2010
Status: offline 		EYSA with the 1.08 patch actually is pretty good. It plays much like Close Combat series too. The ai is ruthless and will cut you to pieces if you don't use the terrain and obstacles to your advantage.

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Post #: 38
RE: Will it be better than Combat Mission - 12/1/2010 6:10:31 PM   
HintJ


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Joined: 10/10/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: IrishGuards

IDG

quote:

Not to sound too stupid here but what is EYSA?

MR

Not to sound too stupid here but what is IDG?

HintJ

(in reply to IrishGuards)
Post #: 39
RE: Will it be better than Combat Mission - 12/23/2010 4:10:18 PM   
junk2drive


Posts: 12907
Joined: 6/27/2002
From: Arizona West Coast
Status: offline 		Since CM:BN has been announced we might as well discuss it. We don't know what will be over there until it's out. I can tell you what we have over here.
Traditional WEGO gameplay
Optional 40:40 or 60 second turns
Serial number activation offline
Automated MP file sharing using outside file share of your choice
Low system requirements
Flamethrowers
Aircraft
Off board assets and air stats in end game screen
Lots of East Front units
Open modding using freeware and low cost software
Full editing tools
Matrix community and support
2 Steves
Tank Riders

We don't have
Deformable terrain
High end graphics
Real time with forced pause for WEGO
Action spots
Building/Bridge damage and destruction
Stars and moon
TCP/IP but with automatic online file sharing it is just about as fast
Anti Air units
Flames (on the ground or started by FTs or explosions)

< Message edited by junk2drive -- 1/2/2011 12:39:41 PM >

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Conflict of Heroes "Most games are like checkers or chess and some have dice and cards involved too. This game plays like checkers but you think like chess and the dice and cards can change everything in real time."

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Post #: 40
RE: Will it be better than Combat Mission - 12/23/2010 5:00:00 PM   
Mad Russian


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From: Texas
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quote:

ORIGINAL: junk2drive

Since CM:BN has been announced we might as well discuss it. We don't know what will be over there until it's out. I can tell you what we have over here.

2 Steves



This is an advantage????!!!

I thought there was a limit to ONE STEVE per project!


Good Hunting.

MR

< Message edited by Mad Russian -- 12/23/2010 6:23:12 PM >

_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

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Post #: 41
RE: Will it be better than Combat Mission - 12/23/2010 5:30:47 PM   
junk2drive


Posts: 12907
Joined: 6/27/2002
From: Arizona West Coast
Status: offline 		Our Steves are nice and knowledgeable about concrete and stuff. And they actually play the game.

_____________________________

Conflict of Heroes "Most games are like checkers or chess and some have dice and cards involved too. This game plays like checkers but you think like chess and the dice and cards can change everything in real time."

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Post #: 42
RE: Will it be better than Combat Mission - 12/23/2010 10:41:21 PM   
HintJ


Posts: 311
Joined: 10/10/2010
Status: offline 		The current version of CMSF is quite good! With the quick battles changed so that I can pick my units, the new CM should be excellent.

(in reply to junk2drive)
Post #: 43
RE: Will it be better than Combat Mission - 12/24/2010 12:35:44 AM   
Yoozername

 

Posts: 1121
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quote:

ORIGINAL: junk2drive

Our Steves are nice and knowledgeable about concrete and stuff. And they actually play the game.


That remark is completely cementitious.

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Post #: 44
RE: Will it be better than Combat Mission - 12/24/2010 3:58:59 AM   
Mad Russian


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From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HintJ

The current version of CMSF is quite good! With the quick battles changed so that I can pick my units, the new CM should be excellent.



I hope so. I wish BFC the best.

PCO and CMB4N are different in far more ways than they are alike.


Good Hunting.

MR

_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to HintJ)
Post #: 45
RE: Will it be better than Combat Mission - 12/26/2010 3:27:36 PM   
Ron

 

Posts: 506
Joined: 6/6/2002
Status: offline 		What's CMB4N? Is that some childish reaction to the accepted acronym for Combat Mission Battle for Normandy - CMBN?

What PC hasn't shown yet is a compelling reason to play, both Kharkov and Winterstorm fizzled with barely a sputter. All the semi-recent hype of Ostfront is starting to show the same symptom.

(in reply to Mad Russian)
Post #: 46
RE: Will it be better than Combat Mission - 12/26/2010 3:40:10 PM   
Mad Russian


Posts: 13256
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ron

What's CMB4N? Is that some childish reaction to the accepted acronym for Combat Mission Battle for Normandy - CMBN?


I hadn't realized there was an accepted acronym for Combat Mission Battle for Normandy. Obviously my childishly huge mistake.

I guess it was was childish to use the accepted acronym that the game went by for almost the past 2 years as well. That was CMN.
quote:


What PC hasn't shown yet is a compelling reason to play, both Kharkov and Winterstorm fizzled with barely a sputter. All the semi-recent hype of Ostfront is starting to show the same symptom.


No game is going to show you a compelling reason to play with Screen Shots. You have to play the game itself. I can tell you that PCO won't be for everybody. It may well not be for you.

How do you propose that a game company tells gamers about what they have to offer if they don't put out semi-recent hype? Do nothing but add it to the list of games for sale?

You bring up a very good point though. This game company is in competition with other game companies to sell games. In this case this thread was started by someone wanting to know if PCO will be better than CM. My assumption was that they were talking about CMx1. Since Combat Mission Battle for Normandy isn't released yet.

That's not a comparison I brought up. They don't compare too well. PCO is a different kind of a game than CMx1 and certainly much different than what CM:BN looks like. But Matrix is here to sell games, just as is BFC. So we answer the questions posed to us about the differences and go on.

As to what I call BFC's products, they don't care. What they care about is if I buy them. If we were as thin skinned about what the Panzer Command series is called, by the acronyms used for it, we could be here awhile.

I will make this prediction for you personally Ron. While I agree with what you say about both PC:OWS and PC:K I predict that PCO won't fizzle without a sputter. It may fizzle but it will get plenty of play time before it does. This is a very different game of this series. When the demo comes out try it.

But beware, you just might like it!

Good Hunting.

MR


< Message edited by Mad Russian -- 12/26/2010 4:48:44 PM >

_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to Ron)
Post #: 47
RE: Will it be better than Combat Mission - 12/26/2010 4:46:30 PM   
junk2drive


Posts: 12907
Joined: 6/27/2002
From: Arizona West Coast
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ron

What's CMB4N? Is that some childish reaction to the accepted acronym for Combat Mission Battle for Normandy - CMBN?

What PC hasn't shown yet is a compelling reason to play, both Kharkov and Winterstorm fizzled with barely a sputter. All the semi-recent hype of Ostfront is starting to show the same symptom.



There is a thread at BFC with a discussion of how to type it out. MR's is no worse than the choices over there.

_____________________________

Conflict of Heroes "Most games are like checkers or chess and some have dice and cards involved too. This game plays like checkers but you think like chess and the dice and cards can change everything in real time."

(in reply to Ron)
Post #: 48
RE: Will it be better than Combat Mission - 12/26/2010 6:37:30 PM   
Ron

 

Posts: 506
Joined: 6/6/2002
Status: offline 		Oh c'mon, who's kidding who? I wonder how often you thought of your previous love as CMB2B?

Ostfront will still be a free patch correct? I was under the impression it was promised to be out before the end of the year? I guess all Steves have certain traits in common.

(in reply to junk2drive)
Post #: 49
RE: Will it be better than Combat Mission - 12/26/2010 6:39:15 PM   
Mobius


Posts: 10339
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ron

What's CMB4N? Is that some childish reaction to the accepted acronym for Combat Mission Battle for Normandy - CMBN?

What PC hasn't shown yet is a compelling reason to play, both Kharkov and Winterstorm fizzled with barely a sputter. All the semi-recent hype of Ostfront is starting to show the same symptom.


One cannot say how PCO compares to CMBN. One game is designed to be WEGO the other is designed to be RST. In one game the basic infantry units are squads and the other might be fire teams or individuals. So the only game that would compare now would be CMx1.

I might ask, Weren't there any Brits or Canadians at Normandy?

(in reply to Ron)
Post #: 50
RE: Will it be better than Combat Mission - 12/26/2010 7:33:21 PM   
Prince of Eckmühl


Posts: 2459
Joined: 6/25/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ron

I wonder how often you thought of your previous love as CMB2B?


That's true of a lot of folks who enjoyed CMBB, don't you think? But, that game is dead and gone. It's completely close-ended from the standpoint of modifying weapons and vehicles. At one point, the developer was charging five-dollars for a Windows Vista Patch. Apart from nostalgia, it's hardly worth mentioning after all these years. Stick a fork in her, she's done (for)!

quote:

Ostfront will still be a free patch correct? I was under the impression it was promised to be out before the end of the year? I guess all Steves have certain traits in common.


The longer that it's in gestation, the better the final product will be. A legitimate criticism of the first two games was that they were short of content, particularly when compared to the myriad vehicles in CMBB and CMAK. It appears that Ostfront will resolve this in it's developer's favor. And I'd note that other developers are headed in the opposite direction, are severely restricting content, even within the context of a single operation like Normandy or Kharkov.


_____________________________

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Post #: 51
RE: Will it be better than Combat Mission - 12/26/2010 7:55:09 PM   
junk2drive


Posts: 12907
Joined: 6/27/2002
From: Arizona West Coast
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ron

Oh c'mon, who's kidding who? I wonder how often you thought of your previous love as CMB2B?

Ostfront will still be a free patch correct? I was under the impression it was promised to be out before the end of the year? I guess all Steves have certain traits in common.



Thanks for posting your thoughts. I'm sure there are lurkers with similar thoughts and questions that don't post.

We are glad to have someone to discuss things with.

_____________________________

Conflict of Heroes "Most games are like checkers or chess and some have dice and cards involved too. This game plays like checkers but you think like chess and the dice and cards can change everything in real time."

(in reply to Ron)
Post #: 52
RE: Will it be better than Combat Mission - 12/27/2010 12:13:05 AM   
HintJ


Posts: 311
Joined: 10/10/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Prince of Eckmühl


That's true of a lot of folks who enjoyed CMBB, don't you think? But, that game is dead and gone. It's completely close-ended from the standpoint of modifying weapons and vehicles. At one point, the developer was charging five-dollars for a Windows Vista Patch. Apart from nostalgia, it's hardly worth mentioning after all these years. Stick a fork in her, she's done (for)!




That's pretty much how I see it. I actually like both CMBB and CMSF, but CMBB is pretty much abandoned. Rather than abandon CMBB, it would be great if BFC let someone continue to develop the code, not just creating patches for 64 bit OS, but further enhancing the game, like by adding message boxes as we have in PC!

PCO interests me because it seems like a CMx1 generation of game that is still being developed!

And comparing PCO to CMBN seems strange because 1) I haven't played either, and 2) PCO is probably better compared to CMBB.

(in reply to Prince of Eckmühl)
Post #: 53
RE: Will it be better than Combat Mission - 12/27/2010 1:36:34 AM   
Mad Russian


Posts: 13256
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ron

Oh c'mon, who's kidding who? I wonder how often you thought of your previous love as CMB2B?


Not often but I wouldn't have gone off on somebody for using that name. I would have still understood what game we were talking about.

quote:


Ostfront will still be a free patch correct? I was under the impression it was promised to be out before the end of the year? I guess all Steve's have certain traits in common.


ROFL!!!!!!!!!! Not what I expected to see from someone so touchy about what acronym BFC and the community use to describe Combat Mission Battle for Normandy.

No, all Steve's don't have certain traits in common. This one wouldn't put his name on a software package he says is the greatest thing since sliced bread and tell everybody to pre-order when it was so bug ridden it wouldn't run as advertised. This one will, to the best of his ability, put a product out that doesn't require 12 patches and two years before it actually becomes a working software package that the gaming public expected at release.

You want the software before we get the final set of issues worked out of it? I didn't think so. If I gave it to you now then I guess all Steve's would have the same traits.

Yes, the update is free to any previous owners of PC:OWS and PC:K. Part of the hold up are demo's. We want to put demo's out for this game for those of you that may not have decided whether this game is for you or not.

Good Hunting.

MR




< Message edited by Mad Russian -- 12/27/2010 1:53:58 AM >

_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to Ron)
Post #: 54
RE: Will it be better than Combat Mission - 12/27/2010 5:06:06 AM   
Yoozername

 

Posts: 1121
Joined: 3/4/2006
Status: offline 		I really thought that CMBB was a dead end and the mis-modeling and reactive modeling ruined the game (especially the infantry).  I hope that PCO can develop itself better than CMBB and its past iterations.  Panzer Command has been a 'plain-burger' in my opinion. 

(in reply to Mad Russian)
Post #: 55
RE: Will it be better than Combat Mission - 12/27/2010 10:40:08 PM   
Mad Russian


Posts: 13256
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Yoozername

I really thought that CMBB was a dead end and the mis-modeling and reactive modeling ruined the game (especially the infantry).  I hope that PCO can develop itself better than CMBB and its past iterations.  Panzer Command has been a 'plain-burger' in my opinion. 


PCO is an interesting combination of old plus new compared to CMBB. There are things in PCO that aren't in CMBB and vice versa. As the PC game series grows it will continue that trend of covering some of the same ground and the CMx1 series and yet be it's own system. PC is definitely not a CM clone.

Once the update is out we can start on the rest of the improvements to the series. Not sure if you'll consider PCO as a plain burger or not but if you do then I can tell you the condiments for your burger are coming in PC4.

Good Hunting.

MR

_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to Yoozername)
Post #: 56
RE: Will it be better than Combat Mission - 12/28/2010 12:29:32 AM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline 		Ok everyone,

It seems a few reminders are necessary based on this and the StuG thread.

1. Please keep all posts civil, even when disagreeing. No personal attacks.

2. While the question of how Panzer Command compares to CM comes up very often for obvious reasons, virtually the entire development team has played and enjoyed CM. We do not have a grudge against CM, but we do prefer Panzer Command to CMx1 and feel that on the whole CMx2 is fairly different from the original series. My own thoughts are that I see CM as a fantastic series and a major source of inspiration. Other tactical wargames, more than can probably be counted, have also inspired us and our underlying design is based on a miniatures wargame created by one of our Steves (Mobius).

There's room for both CM and Panzer Command and we have no issue with Battlefront or the CM series.

3. There is no bashing of other developers or publishers allowed on our forums. We apply the same policy across the board, so criticism of any game, developer or publisher is fine, but you need to be constructive and explain why you have an issue and support your claim. Vague or unsupported criticisms are considered bashing and not ok with us.

Regards,

- Erik

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Post #: 57
RE: Will it be better than Combat Mission - 12/28/2010 1:24:21 AM   
Enigma6584

 

Posts: 306
Joined: 9/23/2010
Status: offline 		Nice to see calmer minds settling things down.  We all should be so lucky to have two companies putting together products like CMX2 and PC:Ostfront.  It has always frustrated me to see both games and developers targets of unfair criticisms.  We get to indulge in our hobby, we get to live vicariously through these games because of certain peoples' (i.e. developers) love for tactical wargames and the important history that they are based on.  I don't really care who is best for this or who is best for that.  Both, in my experience are going to have certain strengths and certain weaknesses.  One is going to represent battle better in one way, the other will be stronger in another.  We are never going to get everything with either of them.  All that matters to me is that both games give me the illusion that I'm a commander on the battlefield leading my troops into battle.  I personally will purchase both series.  Panzers marsch!

(in reply to Erik Rutins)
Post #: 58
RE: Will it be better than Combat Mission - 12/28/2010 5:37:09 AM   
Richie61


Posts: 584
Joined: 3/2/2009
From: Massachusetts
Status: offline 		I have room for both on my hard drive, so bring'em on

_____________________________

To fight and conquer in all our battles is not supreme excellence; supreme excellence consists in breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting.

Sun Tzu




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Post #: 59
RE: Will it be better than Combat Mission - 12/28/2010 4:53:14 PM   
junk2drive


Posts: 12907
Joined: 6/27/2002
From: Arizona West Coast
Status: offline 		Added tank riders and TCP/IP and a few more to post 40

< Message edited by junk2drive -- 12/28/2010 7:12:49 PM >

_____________________________

Conflict of Heroes "Most games are like checkers or chess and some have dice and cards involved too. This game plays like checkers but you think like chess and the dice and cards can change everything in real time."

(in reply to junk2drive)
Post #: 60
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