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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> Uncommon Valor - Campaign for the South Pacific >> Tech Support >> Transport Loading Problem!

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Transport Loading Problem! - 8/23/2002 10:54:54 PM

Capt Cliff

Posts: 1791
Joined: 5/22/2002
From: Northwest, USA
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Scenario 14;

Loading for the invasion, I create a Trans TF with 6 of my biggest AP's (4) 3000 and (2) 2000 I select the 1st Mar. Div HQ and the 1st and 5th regmt.s. Well it loads the HQ into the first two ships, the 1st Regmt into the next three and finally loads part of the 5th regmt on the last ship. WTFO!!! There was ample space on the first ship for the HQ alone then the AI should peanut butter the other two units into the remaining ships. I tried to out fox the AI by creating another TF an loaded the rest of the 5th into it. I then transfered the ships into the first TF. Well that didn't work! It left a 965 size pece of the 5th regmt behind when it finally sailed! Also the second TF got a perminant flag to load the 5th regmt. Even if I deleted it! When I recreated the #TF207 I got the message that it was loading troops, specfically the 5th regmt. I deleted and recreated it an number of times with the same result. I eventually selected stop loading for TF207, which is why some of the 5th got left behind, I guess.

Next I restared the game, MBS (Mucho Bovine Scatology), and tried a different approach. I made a number of little TF's just big enough to load the unit. Well that went south. I had a TF with (2) 1500 size ships, I selected the 1st Div HQ and the 1st Div Tank unit and low and behold when I finished the selection and went back to the TF screen the AI had added another AP and all my APD's!

I should not have to micromanage the system to optimize my transport capacity. As it stands right now I can not recreate the Lunga invasion with all the troops that were there on the first day! We can't have the area commander down on the docks directing traffic as to who loads on what ship!

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Capt. Cliff

Post #: 1

True - 8/24/2002 12:24:29 AM

Black Cat

Posts: 615
Joined: 7/4/2002
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Yep

...and not just the loading problems.

Consider this: You have taken Lunga, you wish to replace the beat up 1st. Marines with the Americal 162nd. RTC.

A reasonable move, Yes ? A major operation of War with much risk, you bet.

Assuming you can load them in the miminum number of ships you will still get supply crammed into the TF as well( Problem 1A+ ).

So you sail to Lunga, always under the threat of LBA from Rabual/Shortlands and an unstopable Toyko Express...

The TF unloads, and unloads, and unloads, days pass, then more days as the TF unloads the supply at the same time as the Troops ( problem 2 ) .....but you get lucky and no losses.

Now, to prevent the TF from sailing back to it`s home base in the action phase ( Problem 3 ) without loading the 1st. Marines you disband it and/or change it`s home base and destination to Lunga.

Now you load the 1st. which it does, and of course it loads all those Supplies it just took days unloading ( Problem 4 ) days pass, and more days , and more, and this time your luck runs out and you lose 2 AKA`s to a LBA strike....because you were there to long. Now you don`t have enough ships to haul the whole 1st. so a fragment stays....( Problem 5 )

If this system/interface is used as is in WITP it will be a nightmare.

(in reply to Capt Cliff)

Post #: 2

- 8/24/2002 12:47:14 AM

Reiryc

Posts: 4991
Joined: 1/5/2001
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quote:

Now you load the 1st. which it does, and of course it loads all those Supplies it just took days unloading ( Problem 4 ) days pass, and more days , and more, and this time your luck runs out and you lose 2 AKA`s to a LBA strike....because you were there to long. Now you don`t have enough ships to haul the whole 1st. so a fragment stays....( Problem 5 )

Maybe you've tried this, but just hit cancel load supplies after the unit in question is loaded....the TF will then sail back to its home port.

Reiryc

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Post #: 3

Tried That - 8/24/2002 1:25:13 AM

Black Cat

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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Reiryc
[B]

Maybe you've tried this, but just hit cancel load supplies after the unit in question is loaded....the TF will then sail back to its home port.

Reiryc [/B][/QUOTE]

Sigh... there is NO WAY to cancel just supplies, you will cancel the loading of the troops as well ( and just load a troop fragment ) since there is just ONE BUTTON for both, and as I said the Game loads Supplies & troops at the SAME TIME.

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Post #: 4

- 8/24/2002 4:25:21 AM

Capt Cliff

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From: Northwest, USA
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Had another trip to the Twight Light Zone! A transport TF with (2) 3000 capacity AP's were ordered to load a 3000 size base force. Well they loaded up on supplies first then only 880 units of the base force! I didn't notice it until they unloaded at Gili Gili!

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Capt. Cliff

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Post #: 5

- 8/24/2002 4:55:45 AM

John Lansford

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If I check a TF loading both troops and supplies, at some point the message will say "loading supplies" instead of " loading troops". If you hit "cancel loading" the troops should stay in the TF and they will head for their destination. I've done this using earlier versions but have not tried it using v1.3 yet.

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Post #: 6

- 8/24/2002 7:48:58 AM

Reiryc

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[QUOTE]Originally posted by John Lansford
[B]If I check a TF loading both troops and supplies, at some point the message will say "loading supplies" instead of " loading troops". If you hit "cancel loading" the troops should stay in the TF and they will head for their destination. I've done this using earlier versions but have not tried it using v1.3 yet. [/B][/QUOTE]

This is what I was referring to...

It also may help to decrease the size of the TF so that there are no spare ships soley loading supplies.

Reiryc

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- 8/24/2002 9:30:09 AM

McDuck

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Hi All , The only way i have found to work around this is to create several smaller TF's using all the AP's and APD's at a port before i attempt to load troops . That way there won't be any " extra " ships show up in your TF's . Have each TF dedicated to loading one ground unit - i.e 3 X 2000 for a regiment , 2 X 2000 for a base force , etc. etc . If it's headed for the action i like to have at least an extra 1000 capacity for supplies per TF . Previous posts have indicated that it's best to use AP's of the same size so that you get the same rate of loading / unloading . ( if you have the luxury of being able to make up an invation TF of all the same size of ships , that is ) Then once the loading is well underway transfer everybody into one big happy TF and disband the TF's that you didn't use . This way you have some control over how the troops are distributed across your AP's . When i am attempting to load troops for transfer to the rear areas i will use whatever's handy but try to make sure the total capacity is not that much larger than the size of the ground force so that the amount of supplies loaded is minimal . Does it work all the time - no - sometime fragments get left behind , does it work some of the time - yes - and those badly needed supplies are left where they're needed .

p.s. ---- a big hand of applause to Rowlf for all his fine work on the maps and ships . I've had to reload the game a couple of times ( god bless Windows ME ) ( or is that god d*** Windows ME ? ) and the fist thing i've done each time is swap in his maps . It's just not the same without them !!! All i've managed to do so far is swap around the bitmap portions for the A6M2's and A6M3's and that was a big enough pain . Keep up all the good work and the great posts guys !

(in reply to Capt Cliff)

Post #: 8

- 8/24/2002 1:36:58 PM

Drongo

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From: Melb. Oztralia
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Posted By John Lansford
[QUOTE]If I check a TF loading both troops and supplies, at some point the message will say "loading supplies" instead of " loading troops". If you hit "cancel loading" the troops should stay in the TF and they will head for their destination. I've done this using earlier versions but have not tried it using v1.3 yet.[/QUOTE]

This will work most of the time but (as black cat pointed out) it is not 100% reliable. I've just had the experience of having to send a mini transport TF racing after a "perfectly" loaded/micromanaged major transport TF to bring along the fragments the major one left behind (including all the 75mm guns of an AA unit - really helpful, that is).

I would suggest you ALWAYS do one last piece of bloody micromanaging and check the base for any bloody stragglers belonging to the bloody unit before you decide the bloody units fully bloody loaded and it's safe to cancel loading because the bloody ship reckons its now "loading bloody supplies". Don't believe what a bloody captain tells you, their all a pack of bloody liars anyway. Bloody stupid game (wish I could stop playing the bloody thing).

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Have no fear,
drink more beer.

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Post #: 9

- 8/25/2002 8:19:27 AM

Rabbakahn

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From: Sacramento, CA
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The system used in Pacific War worked nicely. Maybe we could lobby for a similar system.

Fred

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Post #: 10

You Betcha ! - 8/25/2002 11:12:35 AM

Black Cat

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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Rabbakahn
[B]The system used in Pacific War worked nicely. Maybe we could lobby for a similar system.

Fred [/B][/QUOTE]

PW had a nice , simple system. Prepare for a long windy post ;)

For those who never played it sit down and have a cold one and listen.....

You loaded the troops on to AK`s, paying some attention to unit size VS ship/TF size.

You created a second TF, just loaded supply, merged them and off you went at the same speed, the troops went in first, with supply landing at the same time, in their own ships, the lower value supply ship unloading much faster then in UV, over time.

( This is one thing I find odd, how very long compared to PW it takes to unload either troops or supply )

You could then leave them or create a new TF with just the supply ship/s and sail the high value AK`s out.

Nice, simple, easy and it worked.

If you wanted to be cute you created a second TF, which was empty, and sailed it with the first to split the LBA attacks.

You had plenty of transports to play with in PW.

The only poor feature was the ground units filled out over an extended period of time at the original base so if you needed them at the front quick you always ended up with rements being created at the original base, loading them and transport them to the parent unit and they would merge into the parent, but it would be a much larger unit after this.

This led to much Gamey tactics from the Japanese Player, deliberately transporting a part of say the magnificent, very strong KSNBF ( a Regt. size unit originally ) and eventually building it into a super killer large Division, yes, it lost some "experience points" as new guys came into it but it still was a real problem for anything less then a reinforced 1st. Marine Division...do enough of that and you soon had the entire Japanese Army Dug In in the South Pacific, anyway they lost that for us in UV since units start at Max strength, which is good.

If you combined the unit starting at full strength with the simple PW transport features you would have IMO the best system ...

Thanks for listening, have another cold one...:D

(in reply to Capt Cliff)

Post #: 11

- 8/25/2002 12:26:59 PM

pasternakski

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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Rabbakahn
[B]The system used in Pacific War worked nicely. Maybe we could lobby for a similar system.

Fred [/B][/QUOTE]

A-frickin'-men to you and black cat, podnuh. I cast all 35,000,000 of California's votes for that idea (MAN there's a lot of us Californicators, ain't there?). This is one place where UV just simply dropped the ball, missed the tag, muffed the foul tip, trapped the throw, or whatever other baseball image you want to invoke here (other than crotch scratching, of course).

_____________________________

Put my faith in the people
And the people let me down.
So, I turned the other way,
And I carry on anyhow.

(in reply to Capt Cliff)

Post #: 12

Loading Prioritys! - 8/26/2002 2:32:35 AM

Capt Cliff

Posts: 1791
Joined: 5/22/2002
From: Northwest, USA
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Are there loading prioritys? Does a TF load supply first then the troops? I've seen both happen! The TF loads supply and then there is not enough room the the unit. I now got bits and piece of units scattered about the map!

Add another button and modify the existing one. First button should read "LOAD TROOPS WITH SUPPLY"! Next button; "LOAD TROOPS WITHOUT SUPPLY"!

A refuel at destination yes or no button would also be nice! Nothing like sending tankers somewhere and when they unload they refuel and whoops all the fuel is gone!

Keep it simple!

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Capt. Cliff

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Post #: 13

Re: Loading Prioritys! - 8/26/2002 5:25:34 AM

pasternakski

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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Capt Cliff
[B]Are there loading prioritys? Does a TF load supply first then the troops? I've seen both happen! The TF loads supply and then there is not enough room the the unit. I now got bits and piece of units scattered about the map!

Add another button and modify the existing one. First button should read "LOAD TROOPS WITH SUPPLY"! Next button; "LOAD TROOPS WITHOUT SUPPLY"!

A refuel at destination yes or no button would also be nice! Nothing like sending tankers somewhere and when they unload they refuel and whoops all the fuel is gone!

Keep it simple! [/B][/QUOTE]

You often see a transport TF load troops and supplies seemingly simultaneously, but reserve the last of the troop load for the final three or four hundred capacity points. This is particularly aggravating, and defeats the utility of "stop loading" because you only have a portion of your troops loaded right up to the very end of the loading process.

The other pain in the neck is when you are trying to rotate or evacuate troops out of a forward base that is low on supplies and difficult to resupply. You load your troops, and a bunch of your precious supplies you had to work so hard to get there in the first place comes out with them.

A problem that used to get mentioned a lot seems to have dropped off the radar screen, but I think it needs to be addressed at the same time as this. You need to transport both supplies and fuel somewhere. You have limited escorts and air cover and want to do the job with one TF. You form a transport TF containing both AKs and TKs (or APs and AOs, for that matter). What do you click in order to get the cargo ships to load supplies and the tankers or oilers to load fuel?

I think that your suggested solution to the first two problems has great merit.

_____________________________

Put my faith in the people
And the people let me down.
So, I turned the other way,
And I carry on anyhow.

(in reply to Capt Cliff)

Post #: 14

- 8/26/2002 5:51:57 AM

akbrown

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Joined: 9/6/2000
From: Melbourne, Australia
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One simple change to the game that could help with this problem would be to make it that a transport TF ordered to load troops will only load supplies in spare capacity if the TF is at it's home port. This would avoid having to change the interface if that is a problem.

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Post #: 15

Re: Re: Loading Prioritys! - 8/27/2002 12:03:05 AM

BPRE

Posts: 624
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From: Stockholm,Sweden
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by pasternakski
[B]

A problem that used to get mentioned a lot seems to have dropped off the radar screen, but I think it needs to be addressed at the same time as this. You need to transport both supplies and fuel somewhere. You have limited escorts and air cover and want to do the job with one TF. You form a transport TF containing both AKs and TKs (or APs and AOs, for that matter). What do you click in order to get the cargo ships to load supplies and the tankers or oilers to load fuel?

[/B][/QUOTE]

Hi,

If you order them to load supplies at least the AOs will load fuel. I assume this will happen with the TKs also (none available in the scenario I tested in).

/BPRE

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Post #: 16

- 8/30/2002 9:20:36 AM

Capt Cliff

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From: Northwest, USA
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Loading supplies is not the problem it's loading land units. AO's and TK's in a Trans TF will load automatically if the TF has orders to load supplies. It's the load troop function that's buggie! This is almost a show stopper!

Having bit's and pieces of units scattered about the map is not acceptable. I don't think the Matrix's boy's have responded to this thread!?!

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Capt. Cliff

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Post #: 17

Re: Transport Loading Problem! - 8/30/2002 9:40:48 PM

EricLarsen

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From: Salinas, CA Raider Nation
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Capt Cliff
[B]Scenario 14;

Loading for the invasion, I create a Trans TF with 6 of my biggest AP's (4) 3000 and (2) 2000 I select the 1st Mar. Div HQ and the 1st and 5th regmt.s. Well it loads the HQ into the first two ships, the 1st Regmt into the next three and finally loads part of the 5th regmt on the last ship. WTFO!!! There was ample space on the first ship for the HQ alone then the AI should peanut butter the other two units into the remaining ships. [/B]

Capt Cliff,
No wonder you had problems loading up these troops. First off you need 3 x 3,000 transports to load a near 7,000 load cost regiment. Your tf composition should have been 6 x 3,000 transports and 1 2,000 transport. Next look at how the transports are showing on the list. If the 3,000 transports are first select the regiments and then the HQ so that the regiments load on the 3,000 transports first and the HQ loads on the last 2,000 transport. If the 2,000 transport shows first load the HQ first. I have never had a problem loading my troops and leaving little pieces behind because I think out my load and needs first and use as a rule of thumb 1.5 times transport capacity per load cost of ground units being transported per ship. I would think that a little forethought would not be an issue here since we have to use our brainpower for everything else. The other way to play it safe is to save just before creating the tf and loading it so that if it doesn't work the way you wanted you can try again easily enough without horsing around creating superfluous tf's that just further muck up the works.
Eric Larsen

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Post #: 18

Wrong! Try Again! - 8/31/2002 12:41:27 AM

Capt Cliff

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Eric,

Your logic is based on a "WORK AROUND" for loading Transport TF's! Learned by playing the game and wasting TF resources. The load capacity for each unit should reflect the minimum supplies needed for that unit! Oh another thing, I have had a TF load troops with NO supply! How does you logic work with that one! Try again...

I think there is a bug in the troop loading part of the program! The program should load the troops first, then load supply onto the ship remaining capacity. It's that simple.

I also seen on another thread that a partical fix from this problem is going to be a troop only button. Hope they rework the entire loading process in the .EXE!

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Capt. Cliff

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Post #: 19

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