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Road to Smolensk is hard!

 
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Road to Smolensk is hard! - 12/16/2010 1:17:28 PM   
hgilmer3


Posts: 530
Joined: 12/28/2008
Status: offline 		Even on normal, but I think I am close. I was able to take Vitebsk fairly early on my last try and down south I had a major breakout from Gomel in the last two turns that had my panzers rolling into Bryansk unopposed. I also had Smolensk under attack by my last turn, so I'm sure I can get enough to Smolensk to get it next time. I screwed up on turn 2 and 3 and the logical pocket before Minsk was broken by the Soviets, slowing me down a lot as I mopped them up.

I think I might concentrate even more units North to Smolensk (it IS called the Road to Smolensk so might as well actually take it.)

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RE: Road to Smolensk is hard! - 12/16/2010 1:27:10 PM   
karonagames


Posts: 4712
Joined: 7/10/2006
From: The Duchy of Cornwall, nr England
Status: offline 		If you check the AAR for this scenario over at Armchair general, where I lost to Flavio (narrowly), you will see that I went at Velikiye Luki, head on, and got stuck in the swamps.in addition to Vitebsk, Mogilev, Gomel and Smolensk, you only have to get one more objective to swing the winning margin in your favour.

There is a route that goes behind VL that is Swamp free, and I think the next time I play, I would hammer through Vitebsk towards Rzhev, and keep the enmy guessing whether I was going for VL, Rzhev of Vyazma force him to protect them all and then go for the weakest.

You are on a very tight clock. I would suggest that you consider using "HQ buildup", it might just help you get the momentum you need. Once you get across the Dnepr south of Smolensk, your supplies are reduced by the river crossing cost, HQ Buildup can overcome this.

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RE: Road to Smolensk is hard! - 12/16/2010 1:30:45 PM   
hgilmer3


Posts: 530
Joined: 12/28/2008
Status: offline 		Thank you for the tips!  I only need a little more oomf to get this scenario in my "win" column.

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Post #: 3
RE: Road to Smolensk is hard! - 12/16/2010 7:40:46 PM   
blastpop


Posts: 395
Joined: 11/27/2005
From: Connecticut
Status: offline 		I may have missed it, but what is "HQ buildup"?

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Post #: 4
RE: Road to Smolensk is hard! - 12/16/2010 7:41:46 PM   
karonagames


Posts: 4712
Joined: 7/10/2006
From: The Duchy of Cornwall, nr England
Status: offline 		Can I post a "copy/paste"?

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RE: Road to Smolensk is hard! - 12/16/2010 7:45:10 PM   
Flaviusx


Posts: 7750
Joined: 9/9/2009
From: Southern California
Status: offline 		See rule 20.6 for all the particulars on HQ buildup.

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Post #: 6
RE: Road to Smolensk is hard! - 12/16/2010 7:45:15 PM   
karonagames


Posts: 4712
Joined: 7/10/2006
From: The Duchy of Cornwall, nr England
Status: offline 		sorry for the layout (more haste, less speed etc.)

20.6. HEADQUARTERS UNIT SUPPLY BUILDUP
The player has the ability to accumulate supplies and fuel in an HQ unit and fully resupply an
HQ unit’s attached units in order to maximize their mobility on the following turn.
Only Soviet Army and Axis Corps
HQ units that have not moved
during the current turn may use
the Supply Buildup function.
Eligible HQ units will have a
BUILDUP button on their unit
detail screen (5.4.16). Pressing
the BUILDUP button will trigger
an immediate resupply of the
HQ unit and its eligible attached
units.
20.6.1. ADMIN
POINT COST
To use the Supply Buildup
function, a player must spend
admin points equal to five plus an additional cost for each eligible attached unit. An eligible
attached unit must be an on-map combat unit within five hexes of the HQ unit. The additional
costs for attached combat units are four for a corps, two for a division, and one for a Brigade/
Regiment.
For example, a Soviet Army HQ unit with 1 Rifle Corps, 2 Rifle Divisions and a Tank Brigade
attached would need 14 (5+4+2+2+1) admin points to perform a supply build up. There is no
admin point cost for any attached unit that is more than five hexes away from the HQ unit. Also,
there is no admin point cost for any support units attached to the HQ unit.

20.6.2. HQ SUPPLY ACCUMULATION
Pressing the BUILDUP button will bring up a confirmation text box stating the number of admin
points that will be expended. Selecting ‘Yes’ will trigger an immediate resupply of the HQ unit.
The HQ will receive Supply and Fuel dumps equal to the admin point cost times 100. These
supply and fuel dumps will be taken from town, city and urban hexes connected to the supply
grid. The HQ unit will also receive vehicles from the motor pool equal to the admin point cost
times 100. To continue the example, the Soviet Army HQ unit would receive 1400 Supplies and
1400 Fuel Depots and 1400 vehicles from the motor pool.

20.6.3. HQ SUPPLY BUILDUP PENALTIES
A number of vehicles will be damaged equal to the admin point cost times 100. These vehicles
will be moved from the motor pool to the damaged vehicle pool. A number of vehicles will be
destroyed equal to the admin point cost times ten plus the number of movement points the HQ
unit is from a railhead ((AP*10)+ MPs from rail). These destroyed vehicles will be permanently
removed from the motor pool. A number of fuel dumps will be expended equal to (10+ the
number of movement points the HQ unit is from a railhead) times the admin point cost. These
fuel dumps will be taken from town, city and urban hexes connected to the supply grid. To
further continue the example, if the Soviet Army HQ unit was 10 MPs from a railhead, the
unit supply buildup will result in 1400 vehicles from the motor pool being damaged and 150
vehicles being permanently destroyed. In addition 280 ((10+10)*14) fuel dumps (280 tons of
fuel) will be expended from stores in town, city or urban hexes.

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Post #: 7
RE: Road to Smolensk is hard! - 12/16/2010 7:49:45 PM   
blastpop


Posts: 395
Joined: 11/27/2005
From: Connecticut
Status: offline 		Thanks! missed that in the big rulebook.

I like that rule!

(in reply to karonagames)
Post #: 8
RE: Road to Smolensk is hard! - 12/16/2010 7:52:37 PM   
Flaviusx


Posts: 7750
Joined: 9/9/2009
From: Southern California
Status: offline 		Bob swears by it. I personally never use it on the Soviet side. The AP cost is too steep imo at any time before perhaps 1944. (When the Red Army, hopefully, is complete.)

15 APs = 1 rifle corps and change.



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Post #: 9
RE: Road to Smolensk is hard! - 12/16/2010 11:15:21 PM   
schmolywar

 

Posts: 178
Joined: 12/12/2010
Status: offline 		Ok just learned about the HQ buildup rule. Together with the airdrop I can now finally have my panzers fuel above 100 percent!!

This is the answer ive been looking for all these days. Range to supply nodes on the rails lead me astray because I thought the answer laid there. Those rails are damaged 100 percent anyways until way later in the game.

And keeping HQs close is NOT ENOUGH to supply the panzers with enough fuel( I thought is it really that simple? Of course not, as I just found out)

Browsing the forums is the key to real answers it seems. The manual is just way too labour intensive to plow trough to get to issues like this.

We need more ( me at least) "how I managed to" AARs with this type of information. Seems like experienced players/testers take it for granted.

< Message edited by schmolywar -- 12/16/2010 11:22:59 PM >

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Post #: 10
RE: Road to Smolensk is hard! - 12/16/2010 11:23:53 PM   
CarnageINC


Posts: 2208
Joined: 2/28/2005
From: Rapid City SD
Status: offline 		So I'm I reading this right, no corps beyond 5 hexes in the army benefits from supply buildup, that a army group must come together for that initial boost then spring forward?

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Post #: 11
RE: Road to Smolensk is hard! - 12/17/2010 2:28:49 AM   
henri51


Posts: 1151
Joined: 1/16/2009
Status: offline 		But before you get too enthusiastic about using HQ buildup, remember that the penalty in trucks damaged is severe and part of it is permanent, which could cripple you in longer scenarios if you use it a lot.

Henri

< Message edited by henri51 -- 12/17/2010 2:30:13 AM >

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Post #: 12
RE: Road to Smolensk is hard! - 12/17/2010 2:36:55 AM   
hgilmer3


Posts: 530
Joined: 12/28/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: henri51

But before you get too enthusiastic about using HQ buildup, remember that the penalty in trucks damaged is severe and part of it is permanent, which could cripple you in longer scenarios if you use it a lot.

Henri


Yes, usually when they talk about it they warn you that in the GC that it isn't most times worth the cost.

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KurtC in the WITE PBEM module.

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Post #: 13
RE: Road to Smolensk is hard! - 12/17/2010 8:54:05 AM   
karonagames


Posts: 4712
Joined: 7/10/2006
From: The Duchy of Cornwall, nr England
Status: offline 		Yes, there are only very specific situations where I would use it in the GC. I think around Turn 15, just before the Mud arrives, and I stood a chance to get Moscow/Rostov etc. I would use it, as I could survive the supply shortage and recover the truck losses during the Mud. Likewise in March 42, after the blizzard, there is a chance to recover lost ground, and again you have a period of mud in which to get your supply back to normal.

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Post #: 14
RE: Road to Smolensk is hard! - 12/17/2010 12:11:35 PM   
CarnageINC


Posts: 2208
Joined: 2/28/2005
From: Rapid City SD
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CarnageINC

So I'm I reading this right, no corps beyond 5 hexes in the army benefits from supply buildup, that a army group must come together for that initial boost then spring forward?


Could someone clarify this for me please?

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Post #: 15
RE: Road to Smolensk is hard! - 12/17/2010 1:19:07 PM   
henri51


Posts: 1151
Joined: 1/16/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CarnageINC


quote:

ORIGINAL: CarnageINC

So I'm I reading this right, no corps beyond 5 hexes in the army benefits from supply buildup, that a army group must come together for that initial boost then spring forward?


Could someone clarify this for me please?


I don't think you would want to use supply buildup for a whole Army group, given the cost in AP and destroyed trucks, and it is unlikely that all the units of an army group would be within 5 hexes of the AG HQ anyway, and only those within 5 hexes would get the boost. I would not even use buildup at the Army HQ level for the same reason, but only at the Corps level to boost the units of a Corps for a critical one-time move, for example a stalled Panzer Corps taking a critical objective or closing a pocket.

And even at the Corps level, it is likely that not all of the subunits need the supply boost, so if they are more than 5 hexes away it is good because they will not cost any points.

Henri

(in reply to CarnageINC)
Post #: 16
RE: Road to Smolensk is hard! - 12/17/2010 3:20:49 PM   
karonagames


Posts: 4712
Joined: 7/10/2006
From: The Duchy of Cornwall, nr England
Status: offline 		Only soviet army and GE corps HQs that have not moved can use it, and only units within the 5 hex/19MP radius will get the max. supply boost.

< Message edited by BigAnorak -- 12/17/2010 3:21:49 PM >

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