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RE: Road to Oblivion GC Miller41 (R) vrs Belphigor (G)

 
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RE: Road to Oblivion GC Miller41 (R) vrs Belphigor (G) - 1/15/2011 12:05:19 AM   
CharonJr

 

Posts: 559
Joined: 4/27/2005
Status: offline 		Even if he digs in it will be pure hell during those winter turns - even vs. the AI - I don't even want to start thinking about what a human Soviet player is able to do, especially if he has been conserving his troops... ;)

CharonJr

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Post #: 181
RE: Road to Oblivion GC Miller41 (R) vrs Belphigor (G) - 1/15/2011 12:16:00 AM   
kfmiller41


Posts: 1063
Joined: 3/25/2003
From: Saint Marys, Ga
Status: offline 		One note, have pulled all my cavalry units back and stacked them 3 high for December when they can be converted to corps.

Leningrad front. He made one attack here, forced me back in 1 hex and I stood in the second. I adjusted my front to keep from getting surrounded one hex.





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RE: Road to Oblivion GC Miller41 (R) vrs Belphigor (G) - 1/15/2011 12:23:00 AM   
randallw

 

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Status: offline 		Did he attack you in a swamp?

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RE: Road to Oblivion GC Miller41 (R) vrs Belphigor (G) - 1/15/2011 12:29:11 AM   
kfmiller41


Posts: 1063
Joined: 3/25/2003
From: Saint Marys, Ga
Status: offline 		Kalanin Front, am getting better with the maps, sooner or later i will have this down pat




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RE: Road to Oblivion GC Miller41 (R) vrs Belphigor (G) - 1/15/2011 12:39:11 AM   
kfmiller41


Posts: 1063
Joined: 3/25/2003
From: Saint Marys, Ga
Status: offline 		Moscow Front, eerily quiet




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RE: Road to Oblivion GC Miller41 (R) vrs Belphigor (G) - 1/15/2011 12:50:38 AM   
kfmiller41


Posts: 1063
Joined: 3/25/2003
From: Saint Marys, Ga
Status: offline 		Here is that fluid (that means he is kicking my ass) front.





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RE: Road to Oblivion GC Miller41 (R) vrs Belphigor (G) - 1/15/2011 1:00:46 AM   
kfmiller41


Posts: 1063
Joined: 3/25/2003
From: Saint Marys, Ga
Status: offline 		Kharkov, the other beat down front. At least it was a controlled retreat.




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RE: Road to Oblivion GC Miller41 (R) vrs Belphigor (G) - 1/15/2011 1:11:09 AM   
kfmiller41


Posts: 1063
Joined: 3/25/2003
From: Saint Marys, Ga
Status: offline 		Stalino front, he is advancing here but if the mud hits he will be in very bad defensive terrain.




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RE: Road to Oblivion GC Miller41 (R) vrs Belphigor (G) - 1/15/2011 1:16:16 AM   
randallw

 

Posts: 2057
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Status: offline 		You may not want tank brigades sitting by their lonesome; they are better off stacked with a rifle division.

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Post #: 189
RE: Road to Oblivion GC Miller41 (R) vrs Belphigor (G) - 1/15/2011 1:17:02 AM   
kfmiller41


Posts: 1063
Joined: 3/25/2003
From: Saint Marys, Ga
Status: offline 		Crimean front, nothing happening.




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RE: Road to Oblivion GC Miller41 (R) vrs Belphigor (G) - 1/15/2011 1:18:33 AM   
kfmiller41


Posts: 1063
Joined: 3/25/2003
From: Saint Marys, Ga
Status: offline 		Would love to, but have more tanks than infantry in that area, just filling the line for now till the mud hits. Normally I would have infantry manning that river.

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RE: Road to Oblivion GC Miller41 (R) vrs Belphigor (G) - 1/15/2011 1:29:45 AM   
kfmiller41


Posts: 1063
Joined: 3/25/2003
From: Saint Marys, Ga
Status: offline 		Wanted to comment on my strategy up to now. I realize that by falling back and trading space for time and saving the troops to fight later I am basically going against what the Russians did historically. I realize this will make winning much easier as my army will be massive when I go over to the offensive and the Germans start as strong as they ever get and get weaker as the game goes along. I plan on playing my next game like Stalin is my real boss and seeing how it plays out. I have seem several comments that make it seem that the German player cannot win vs a defense that doesn't stand and take huge losses. I am not so sure that is true because several times in my current game I expected my opponent to be much more aggressive and punch thru my lines. I have covered some areas with very thin lines and made many mistakes with deployments. Also the german player has taken light losses compared to what he could have if he pressed very hard. I expected to lose Leningrad.

Being his first GC game as well as mine he probably was unsure how things would go. Fog of war is great for balancing the playing field. I expect he will be much more free with his forces in his next attempt.


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RE: Road to Oblivion GC Miller41 (R) vrs Belphigor (G) - 1/15/2011 2:01:36 AM   
Flaviusx


Posts: 7750
Joined: 9/9/2009
From: Southern California
Status: offline 		The problem with running away isn't that it's ahistorical.

The problem is it's not the best way to defend. You can actually hurt and stop the Germans a lot more quickly if you start laying on the panzer spearheads in the right manner.

But thus far not a single Soviet player that I've seen thus far has figured out how to do this. (And when they do, I anticipate a lot of complaints about this from our German players, who will be even less happy about Soviets who fight back than Soviets who run away. So it goes.)



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RE: Road to Oblivion GC Miller41 (R) vrs Belphigor (G) - 1/15/2011 2:42:11 AM   
ParaB

 

Posts: 112
Joined: 5/3/2009
From: Germany
Status: offline 		Really enjoy reading this AAR, keep 'em coming!



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Post #: 194
RE: Road to Oblivion GC Miller41 (R) vrs Belphigor (G) - 1/15/2011 2:43:07 AM   
randallw

 

Posts: 2057
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Status: offline 		Is the main goal of attacking the panzers to damage them, or to help use up their ammo/supply, and cause fatigue?

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Post #: 195
RE: Road to Oblivion GC Miller41 (R) vrs Belphigor (G) - 1/15/2011 3:05:03 AM   
kfmiller41


Posts: 1063
Joined: 3/25/2003
From: Saint Marys, Ga
Status: offline 		Well your a much better player than I am Flaviusx, because the few times i tried to hit back I got my arse handed to me. I am sure part of that is because he never really put himself in that much danger. I really do plan on hitting back earlier next go round. In the south looks to be the place to do it, as the forces there are really strong and not spread out to hell and gone

Also winter turn 2 of my game against Haudrauf1962 has seen major breakthroughs in several areas, if you get a chance read his AAR, i am sure he is playing for mud or some other salvation. Biggest problem I have is supply at the moment in that game, but once my troops turn back in to pumpkins I am sure he will hand me some blows in return.

Thanks for the positive comments para, I get them out as soon as my opponent can do them, he works some long hours I understand.

< Message edited by miller41 -- 1/15/2011 3:08:36 AM >

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RE: Road to Oblivion GC Miller41 (R) vrs Belphigor (G) - 1/15/2011 3:27:42 AM   
CarnageINC


Posts: 2208
Joined: 2/28/2005
From: Rapid City SD
Status: offline 		Enjoying your new graphics on the map, good idea for attacks and failed attacks.  I might start using that on my maps if you don't mind?

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Post #: 197
RE: Road to Oblivion GC Miller41 (R) vrs Belphigor (G) - 1/15/2011 3:32:21 AM   
CarnageINC


Posts: 2208
Joined: 2/28/2005
From: Rapid City SD
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

The problem with running away isn't that it's ahistorical.

The problem is it's not the best way to defend. You can actually hurt and stop the Germans a lot more quickly if you start laying on the panzer spearheads in the right manner.

But thus far not a single Soviet player that I've seen thus far has figured out how to do this. (And when they do, I anticipate a lot of complaints about this from our German players, who will be even less happy about Soviets who fight back than Soviets who run away. So it goes.)




Shhhhhhh! *whisper* 'talk quietly we don't want to upset the apple cart'

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Post #: 198
RE: Road to Oblivion GC Miller41 (R) vrs Belphigor (G) - 1/15/2011 3:34:06 AM   
kfmiller41


Posts: 1063
Joined: 3/25/2003
From: Saint Marys, Ga
Status: offline 		Feel free sir, and if you have any ideas to help make it even for informational feel free to let me know. I got the little corner graphic idea from you Showing the Sit-rep/front and date.

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RE: Road to Oblivion GC Miller41 (R) vrs Belphigor (G) - 1/15/2011 3:45:00 AM   
CarnageINC


Posts: 2208
Joined: 2/28/2005
From: Rapid City SD
Status: offline 		Thanks Miller41.  Feel free to swipe any new ideas I might come up with too.  Anything to make the AAR's easier and more enjoyable.  I'm thinking about experimenting a little with my maps, try and declutter them some.  You seem to have a good formula so far with your print, I think it might do with your zoomed in level.  I think when I get to key battles I'll do that with the attack arrows.  Ah...well see.  Keep it up, looking great 

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RE: Road to Oblivion GC Miller41 (R) vrs Belphigor (G) - 1/15/2011 4:06:29 AM   
CarnageINC


Posts: 2208
Joined: 2/28/2005
From: Rapid City SD
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: miller41

I plan on playing my next game like Stalin is my real boss and seeing how it plays out. I have seem several comments that make it seem that the German player cannot win vs a defense that doesn't stand and take huge losses.


Redmarkus seems to be doing this type of defense, and IMO its doing a good job of me having to mop up (wasting time too) small pockets here and there. I know killing units is good but I think a Soviet player can achieve a balance and feed the Germans just enough to slow them down in some areas. Plus it keeps the panzer troops more on the front and not in the rear gathering fuel for the next punch. Just my thoughts on the subject.

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RE: Road to Oblivion GC Miller41 (R) vrs Belphigor (G) - 1/15/2011 4:50:54 AM   
Klydon


Posts: 2251
Joined: 11/28/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

The problem with running away isn't that it's ahistorical.

The problem is it's not the best way to defend. You can actually hurt and stop the Germans a lot more quickly if you start laying on the panzer spearheads in the right manner.

But thus far not a single Soviet player that I've seen thus far has figured out how to do this. (And when they do, I anticipate a lot of complaints about this from our German players, who will be even less happy about Soviets who fight back than Soviets who run away. So it goes.)




I think there was one where the Soviet defended forward early and got his butt kicked in the middle pretty good, but otherwise, the Soviet players have pretty much pulled back.

I think this game is like most games in that with players of equal experience, it is far easier to play defense. (Especially true with rookies). What is worse is I also agree that I think the Russians will have a faster learning curve as well. It appears that with the way things are now, the Axis player is going to have to be a real operator to have any success against a good Russian. I have heard bits and pieces that this is not the way it is among most of the testers in that the really good Germans can make some serious hay.

This is one of the things that makes games so tough to get a good feel and balance since it is not really a lot of fun to have one side that constantly wins all the time. Do you try to balance for the elite level of play or an average level of play because it could be very different.

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Post #: 202
RE: Road to Oblivion GC Miller41 (R) vrs Belphigor (G) - 1/15/2011 5:03:04 AM   
Flaviusx


Posts: 7750
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quote:

ORIGINAL: randallw

Is the main goal of attacking the panzers to damage them, or to help use up their ammo/supply, and cause fatigue?


Yes.

More specifically, the point is to catch them when they are vulnerable, beat them up, and force the German to waste time pulling them out of the line for resting and refitting. If you are very lucky you might even rout them and render them combat incapable for a turn or two. (Tip: if possible cut them off and force them to retreat in combat. That's an automatic rout.)

You won't destroy them or anything like that, but there comes a point when the panzers are just plain tired out and anything you can do to force them to pause can only help your cause.

Judging when and where to do this is the key. I'm quite partial to using the Smolensk area as a killing field in mid summer. But opportunities could arise anywhere.

< Message edited by Flaviusx -- 1/15/2011 5:12:51 AM >

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RE: Road to Oblivion GC Miller41 (R) vrs Belphigor (G) - 1/15/2011 5:20:57 AM   
randallw

 

Posts: 2057
Joined: 9/2/2010
Status: offline 		How exactly is this done?  Does it require a large collection of Soviet divisions, positioned right next to where the panzers will end their turn, after attacking and advancing, then the divisions punch 'em in the face and run away best they can?  It sounds like a lot of guessing/estimating whether the Axis player will launch deliberate or hasty attacks, and how many MPs the panzers have.

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Post #: 204
RE: Road to Oblivion GC Miller41 (R) vrs Belphigor (G) - 1/15/2011 5:24:19 AM   
Flaviusx


Posts: 7750
Joined: 9/9/2009
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Status: offline 		They punch and then disperse, yes.



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RE: Road to Oblivion GC Miller41 (R) vrs Belphigor (G) - 1/15/2011 5:37:29 AM   
kfmiller41


Posts: 1063
Joined: 3/25/2003
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Status: offline 		That's one way. I prefer to cut them off and make them have to backtrack, just to slow them down.

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RE: Road to Oblivion GC Miller41 (R) vrs Belphigor (G) - 1/15/2011 4:40:25 PM   
hgilmer3


Posts: 530
Joined: 12/28/2008
Status: offline 		Your maps are very good.

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RE: Road to Oblivion GC Miller41 (R) vrs Belphigor (G) - 1/15/2011 8:43:12 PM   
kfmiller41


Posts: 1063
Joined: 3/25/2003
From: Saint Marys, Ga
Status: offline 		Turn 18 and Mud is here, at least for a time. Thought I would try something new.





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RE: Road to Oblivion GC Miller41 (R) vrs Belphigor (G) - 1/15/2011 8:47:34 PM   
randallw

 

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Status: offline 		The Axis have lost over 5k AFVs?

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Post #: 209
RE: Road to Oblivion GC Miller41 (R) vrs Belphigor (G) - 1/15/2011 8:55:14 PM   
kfmiller41


Posts: 1063
Joined: 3/25/2003
From: Saint Marys, Ga
Status: offline 		Due to inactivity I decided to outline my plans in general for December. Of course this is subject to all kinds of problems that could change it.




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