RE: Advice on preparing for your first winter.

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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Gary Grigsby's War in the East Series >> The War Room >> RE: Advice on preparing for your first winter.

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RE: Advice on preparing for your first winter. - 12/31/2010 1:04:38 PM

ComradeP

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quote:

I was wondering on ComradeP's comment on the soviets being more capable, could one impact be that there is more being produced then historically? Reason I ask is in the manual is says the soviet player has to get 1/2 his factories evacuated to be historical and it seems from what I have read in the forums most factories are being moved and there is little impact on production. Haven't played the soviets so not sure if this a viable reason or not.

The main problem with factories is that their production isn't scaled to the damage, but instead there is a die roll, with about a 1 in 2 chance of success after the move if an entire factory is moved (50% damage>47% damage next turn so it can theoretically produce again). Depending on the rolls of your Soviet opponent, it's thus quite possible that factory output for a certain period is higher than historical. Overall, Soviet production shouldn't be much higher and a large part of the equipment that is produced will also be lost soon due to the inexperience of the units using them. To me, the capabilities of the Soviets to resist in a somewhat ahistorical fashion has at this point more to do with the effectiveness of some kinds of defensive terrain, the initial high quality of a number of Soviet leaders, which in turn leads to very impressive CV modifiers in combat, which the Axis can't really compensate with force multipliers of their own.

The Soviets will lack real mobility until late 1942/early 1943, so Soviet advances are not going to be too impressive even during the winter, but with a somewhat sensible defensive plan and saving up AP's to create corps, the 1942 summer campaign season can already be a nightmare for the Axis. At this point, a Rifle corps in a swamp hex is probably essentially an unmovable stack if it can only be attacked from one or two hexsides.

When I'm playing as the Soviets, I don't worry about losing, I worry about when I'm going to win, as you do have to push the Axis all the way back to their home countries. When the Axis are defending, they enjoy many of the advantages the Soviets have in 1941.

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(in reply to karonagames)

Post #: 31

RE: Advice on preparing for your first winter. - 1/1/2011 12:07:40 AM

heliodorus04

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ComradeP

You can expect Rifle divisions to have a CV of about 3 or 4 by spring and around 4 or 5 by summer.

I'd suggest not building fortified zones, they'll fold when attacked. Save the AP's for assigning/reassigning leaders.

You could try not holding a line, but instead forming sort of a checkerboard hedgehog.

A=Axis, -=empty hex, S=Soviets

A-S
--S
A-S

or one with two hexes in between your stacks.

With two or three divisions in a hex with level 4 or 5 forts, the Soviets would have to concentrate more manpower to be able to force you out.

Keep in mind that a leader's wins/losses are based on battles, they're not cumulative for the wins/losses of the unit. So if you stack units and those are attacked, the result is one battle and 1 win/loss. If you spread two or three divisions out, they'll be attacked in two or three battles and as such your leader has a better chance of being sacked. Minimizing the amount of leaders being dismissed is important for maintaining the C&C you want.

I wanted to ask about that last part, because I'm a rank newb who has finished the tutorial from what's his name, the intro to operational warfare. I'm also not very experienced with operational games. Anyhow, I'm trying to understand your last paragraph, and this is how I understand it:

Given that the Axis is going to be very weak in the first winter, the axis player can expect a LOT of lost battles, especially and more so if you create weaker, smaller stacks and defend many hexes. They will be easier to be beaten, and their commanders will get blame for more lost battles.
Conversely, defending strong in fewer hexes will likely create harder won victories for the soviets, possibly fewer losses to the Axis, and thus, your good leaders don't get sacked (by some game mechanic I'm not yet familiar with, apparently).

Given what little I know about zones of control, it would seem the 2-hex gap you give as an alternative would be dangerous for me, because you can't count on much attack CV out of your Axis if you let ANY soviets start to weave through your somewhat porous hex control.

Does that sound accurate?

(in reply to ComradeP)

Post #: 32

RE: Advice on preparing for your first winter. - 1/1/2011 2:41:35 PM

ComradeP

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Joined: 9/17/2009
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quote:

Conversely, defending strong in fewer hexes will likely create harder won victories for the soviets, possibly fewer losses to the Axis, and thus, your good leaders don't get sacked (by some game mechanic I'm not yet familiar with, apparently).

Axis leaders, possibly only German leaders (I'm waiting on a clarification of that on the tester forum) have a 10% win count prior to the winter, so that means that if they 10 victories and 2 defeats, they have a negative ratio for the non-adjusted wins/losses. Political rating gives the commander additional wins it seems as far as dismissals and promotions are concerned, but you should try to keep the wins as high as possible. If you start losing lots of battles, your leaders will get sacked. If you lose just a few battles, hardly anything will happen to your leaders.

quote:

Given what little I know about zones of control, it would seem the 2-hex gap you give as an alternative would be dangerous for me, because you can't count on much attack CV out of your Axis if you let ANY soviets start to weave through your somewhat porous hex control.

You do need to try and maintain ZOC over the hexes the Soviets can move to. Soviet morale will be between 50 and 60 by that time, so most of their units will need 3 or 4 additional MP's for entering enemy hexes, and they're probably not going to be able to move from ZOC to ZOC.

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(in reply to heliodorus04)

Post #: 33

RE: Advice on preparing for your first winter. - 1/1/2011 7:38:01 PM

heliodorus04

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I don't understand what you mean by a 10 percent win count. You use 10 victories and 2 defeats as 'bad' so it sounds to me like you mean that they need a 10 to 1 W/L ratio, but I've no real idea. Could you clarify a bit?

(in reply to ComradeP)

Post #: 34

RE: Advice on preparing for your first winter. - 1/1/2011 11:54:30 PM

ComradeP

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A 10:1 Win/Loss ratio is needed in order not to have an (unadjusted) negative ratio. The ratio is adjusted a bit by the political rating, but 10:1 is safe. The required ratio will improve as the war progresses. The Soviet situation is the reverse of the Axis one: early losses don't matter much whilst early victories weigh heavily, and as the war progresses that gap will diminish until losses are counted at the same ratio as wins (I guess, I'm not entirely sure if the end result is 1:1 or whether it will turn negative for the Soviets too).

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Unity of Command scenario designer

(in reply to heliodorus04)

Post #: 35

RE: Advice on preparing for your first winter. - 1/8/2011 4:35:22 PM

bwheatley

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ComradeP
swamps are also too effective against mobile forces currently, but hopefully the Soviets will be hindered by that too when they're attacking.

Swamps should be effective against mobile units. Going mudding out in the everglades proved that to me. :)
Fyi don't take takes through a swamp..you'll be sorry.

(in reply to ComradeP)

Post #: 36

RE: Advice on preparing for your first winter. - 1/8/2011 6:44:18 PM

ComradeP

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Joined: 9/17/2009
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Of course you shouldn't be storming through swamps with Panzers, but if you significantly outnumber your opponent and have a really powerful stack, I don't see why you shouldn't be able to make an attack with mobile units in a swamp. Swamps are equally effective against infantry most of the time.

Part of the problem is that the terrain type's bonus is not always correctly indicated on the counter currently. A Rifle division in a swamp that appears like 1=1 will defend more like 1=30.

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Unity of Command scenario designer

(in reply to bwheatley)

Post #: 37

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